+Andrew Davie Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 OK, well we can waffle on about this forever, or we can just make something happen. So here's my offer to the community. Anyone with 100+ posts on AtariAge and who can find three people who will personally recommend them as "reliable" can ask to borrow my cartridge. To borrow the cartridge you will have these requirements. 1) You will send Albert $100 as a bond. This is returned to you when the cartridge is successfully delivered to the next borrower. 2) you have two weeks after you receive the cartridge as "playtime". 3) You promise, word of honor, to do an honest review of the game to the relevant AA thread, before the game leaves your possession (on pain of forfeiture of bond!) 4) You prepay the person before you (that's me for the first person, but after that, whoever is sending the cart) the cost of registered postage. 5) You post to the review thread (where we will track everyting) a picture showing proof of registered/insured postage to the address of the next borrower. That's about all I can think of. So, rough estimate - $100 to Albert (or someone/entity we can agree on as escrow) for bond. $25 to previous borrower to cover insured ($250) postage to next borrower $100 returned on receipt of cart or proven delivery. Total cost - just the insured postage, and a bit of your time to do a review. Of course I never expect to get the cartridge back. It will disappear at some point or other. Through theft, or circumstance. So be it. If anyone wants to be first, please contact me privately, with your "referees". Cheers A 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Why not just have the borrower mail it back to you directly? Less chance of loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Why not just have the borrower mail it back to you directly? Less chance of loss Because I don't want to spend the time dealing with it. Because I'm in Australia and most borrowers will be in the USA. Because it's an adventure, and let's have some fun seeing how long we can keep a chain of honesty going. Because we can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Why not just have the borrower mail it back to you directly? Less chance of loss That would also double the costs and travel time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Yeah, I would not recommend the game go back to Andrew each time. Not only would that be a repeated distraction for him, but it'll greatly slow things down since he's in Australia. It'll also add considerable cost. Plus, every time you ship the game you risk it either getting lost or damaged in transit. Doubly so with international shipments. As Andrew said, most people will be in the US. I would try to group travel of the cart together by country or region (for instance, people within the US, people in Canada, people in the Europe, etc.) , which will help the cart travel along faster, and also reduce shipping costs. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 ...people in the Europe... If there is enough interest, I would offer my cart for shipping in Europe. Same conditions as Andrew mentioned above Except that you can keep the cart one month (since I suppose there are much less people interested here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Maybe if enough people wanted to try it out they could give their location and maybe map it out to save shipping somewhat. Road tripping would be cooler if we all did not have lives and money was no object... in another lifetime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Somehow I don't see the rental program lasting long. At some point the cart will simply disappear, intentionally or not. Also the Escrow is a pretty big deterrent for anyone who simply wants to rent. No so for a scammer who plans to double his investment. But hey, I could be wrong. If people are motivated enough to participate, give it a try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I doubt anyone will pay $100 for a loose cart. Just to be sure, maybe we should remove the label before sending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I doubt anyone will pay $100 for a loose cart. Just to be sure, maybe we should remove the label before sending? Put a Pac-Man label on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Put a Pac-Man label on it. Then it shows up at a flea matket or Game-X-Change somewhere for $1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 And someone brags about his unique find 20 years later when someone decides to make the cart work. You will be depositing $100 with Albert as security for your use and handling of the cartridge and your obligations under the rental agreement, including the review. It should be refunded to you once you show proof that you have sent it to the next person in the queue. As I calculate postage, the cartridge will easily fit inside a Priority Mail Small Flat Rate box. The current cost of shipping that box anywhere within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States is $6.80. Insurance for $250 is $4.35 and should act as confirmation that the item was shipped. What else would be necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I suppose the initial shipping from Australia is a bit more expensive. If you find 4 people who want to participate, they can agree to split the initial extra cost between them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I suppose the initial shipping from Australia is a bit more expensive. If you find 4 people who want to participate, they can agree to split the initial extra cost between them, I will personally cover the initial postage cost. So, for the first person it's completely free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gauauu Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Sounds like a lot of work from Albert to manage everyone's $100.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Maybe the next in line can transfer the money to the current in line. You have to trust each other of course. BTW: Is there anyone at all who is interested? Just wondering about the missing feedback. Edited August 5, 2016 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Also will they be using gift payments or merchant payments? Paypal takes a 2.9% fee on transactions, but if Albert can collect a $100 payment, then refund the money after the user has fulfilled his/her obligations, the fee will be included in that refund and nobody is out anything. I'm just not sure if Paypal was designed to be used as an escrow service in this type of manner. Better read the TOS with a fine comb. Excessive issuance of refunds might get the PP acount flagged depending on the type of heuristics Paypal uses to detect unusual activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 I don't think it matters whether you use gift payments or merchant payments, because depositing money with an escrow agreement falls under neither category. You aren't buying a product, so PayPal's protection would not apply. PayPal is not intended to be used as an escrow service, but for short term deposits for a relatively small amount, it should be fine. Of course, it is Albert who would be acting as an escrow agent, so if he decided to deem your deposit forfeit, your dispute would be directly with him. It would not be much in the way of work. Say I were second in line. I send my money to Albert via PayPal gift, Albert then tells my predecessor to send the cart to me. When my predecessor shows proof of mailing, Albert sends him back his $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacrosCode Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) Maybe the next in line can transfer the money to the current in line. You have to trust each other of course. BTW: Is there anyone at all who is interested? Just wondering about the missing feedback. Maybe most (interested) people don't follow this topic. Give them a bit time to discover... ...and the holidays are still not over in every part of germany. Edited August 6, 2016 by MacrosCode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 BTW: Is there anyone at all who is interested? Just wondering about the missing feedback. I think that the high deposit amount combined with having to forward it to the next person yourself, will put off all but the most desperate to play. Having said that, both you and Andrew have to cover your property given the rarity of the game on the open market. So its the way it is for several good reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 I don't think it matters whether you use gift payments or merchant payments, because depositing money with an escrow agreement falls under neither category. You aren't buying a product, so PayPal's protection would not apply. PayPal is not intended to be used as an escrow service, but for short term deposits for a relatively small amount, it should be fine. Of course, it is Albert who would be acting as an escrow agent, so if he decided to deem your deposit forfeit, your dispute would be directly with him. It would not be much in the way of work. Say I were second in line. I send my money to Albert via PayPal gift, Albert then tells my predecessor to send the cart to me. When my predecessor shows proof of mailing, Albert sends him back his $100. Too many gift payments will eventually pull a red flag. That's why using standard merchant payment with included Paypal protection would be best for escrow purposes, then simply refund the entire payment and nobody pays a red cent in fees. I think that the high deposit amount combined with having to forward it to the next person yourself, will put off all but the most desperate to play. Having said that, both you and Andrew have to cover your property given the rarity of the game on the open market. So its the way it is for several good reasons. Yeah when I rented from blockbuster back in the day, I wasn't forced to pay the entire purchase price of the movie then get refunded for all but the rental fee when I returned the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Yeah when I rented from blockbuster back in the day, I wasn't forced to pay the entire purchase price of the movie then get refunded for all but the rental fee when I returned the movie. The "entire purchase price" for BD is actually around $250 now last I looked. Been a year or two since I saw a sale, though. Might have changed. And to be clear nobody is "forcing" anyone to pay anything. Interesting watching the response to this, how so many people are dredging up problems and objections. Do it or don't do it; the option is there. Don't complain all the time, people! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Too many gift payments will eventually pull a red flag. That's why using standard merchant payment with included Paypal protection would be best for escrow purposes, then simply refund the entire payment and nobody pays a red cent in fees. Yeah when I rented from blockbuster back in the day, I wasn't forced to pay the entire purchase price of the movie then get refunded for all but the rental fee when I returned the movie. That may be true, but I am not seeing people fighting each other over for their place in the queue. If each person gets two weeks, that would be two gift payments to Albert and two gift payments from Albert in a month. Your average Cuban expatriate probably does four times the activity in the same period of time. Otherwise, PayPal will hit you for $3.20 for every transaction. If it becomes a problem, then perhaps the merchant payment will be necessary. How many copies of that movie were available to rent and how much would it have cost to replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I was just simply stating a fact that there were logistics issues with the Boulderdash rental program. I owned one for a while before I sold it so I don't have a great desire to ply it again. Also Great Heirophant gets first dibs if this thing ever becomes reality, so he can review it on his awesome blog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I was just simply stating a fact that there were logistics issues with the Boulderdash rental program. I owned one for a while before I sold it so I don't have a great desire to ply it again. Also Great Heirophant gets first dibs if this thing ever becomes reality, so he can review it on his awesome blog! What an interesting idea! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.