FPGA Based Videogame System

[emubastard]

HDMI 2.1 will have variable refresh rate. Kevtris could take advantage of this with his own console to support games that do not natively run at exactly 60Hz

 

I now have an erection.

[Keatah]

Yes but at what steps or values? would it support 57hz?

 

..doesn't say.. But it does make mention of instant availability rendering for low-lag and 8k.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

 

Understand that VRR for modern consoles might mean 120hz or 240hz. Whereas for classic games it might be 59hz or 61hz or 59.6hz. Big difference! so don't automatically assume classic rates are supported.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Keatah

[phoenixdownita]

Also it requires new TVs as well, at that point you may stumble into the LCD/LED/Plasma/OLED refresh limits, it cannot just be coerced into doing whatever you want, so the TV can add a framebuffer in between and then lag comes back again [bTW some already do that when converting signals that do not match their panel native resolution, they buffer it and transform it into whatever the panel wants while applying all sort of post-processing filters].

 

But it is an interesting development.

[Keatah]

Yes. But the point is to display the images as soon as they come in. So perhaps the tv buffer won't be in effect, or be minimal so as not to be noticed.

 

No reason you can't start drawing the frame on the "optics" as the data rolls in. Not unlike a CRT.

[phoenixdownita]

Yes. But the point is to display the images as soon as they come in. So perhaps the tv buffer won't be in effect, or be minimal so as not to be noticed.

 

No reason you can't start drawing the frame on the "optics" as the data rolls in. Not unlike a CRT.

Not really. If the plasma dot (it's just an example) needs to be refreshed at say 120Hz, you need to have the image buffered to be able to present it twice during the 60Hz refresh period, given the image is coming too slow you can't render it direct to dot, you have to buffer it first then present it whole (to avoid tearing etc...).

 

Only if the actual panel refresh rate matches exactly the signal and the resolution doesn't require doubling/quadrupling the input signal then you're fine.

Think about if you have a 1080p60 signal that needs to be displayed on a 2160p60 TV. That TV renders 1 pixel line twice as fast (in the same time it must render 2 lines at 2160 rather than 1 at 1080p, same frequency for the whole frame but twice a many lines so it is twice as fast) so where does it gets the data from?

[in this case it is "easy" as by just waiting and buffering 1 full line at 1080p (1 line lag) it can render it twice and then swap line buffer (in that exact timeframe a second 1080p line would have been transmitted, so it needs two one-1080p line buffers).

 

It gets complicated if the actual panel requires a much faster refresh for persistence reasons (or a non sync'ed one) .... you just don't have the data ahead of time so you end up buffering a full frame.

 

I am not saying there are many panels that do that but hey ....

[Keatah]

My head's gonna s'plode. Maybe a game of Basic Math is in order. Or I could polish the connectors on my 110/300 baud modem or something.

 

It'll all sort itself out.

[RampantOctopus]

I heard the Kevtris was in talks with West River Brands to create the Gamate II (not read as 2, but as eye-eye); naturally, it will only play RCA Studio II games and take 12 9-Volt batteries (estimated battery life, :30), but it will come with a wireless headset so you can hear the dead cat as loud as you want without disturbing your neighbors on the Hindenburg.

[Great Hierophant]

I would be just as interested in the wider color gamuts of the newer standards, with 10, 12 and 16-bit RGB color. Compared to the 8-bit RGB color used by everyone today, a much wider variant of color can be produced. Some colors that only a CRT can display may be possible.

[Great Hierophant]

Also, I doubt that AdaptiveSync or FreeSync monitors can sync to weird fractional frame rates put out by every console ever made prior to the Playstation x. The only fractional frame rate that have any support are 59.94/29.97/23.976.

[kevtris]

I heard the Kevtris was in talks with West River Brands to create the Gamate II (not read as 2, but as eye-eye); naturally, it will only play RCA Studio II games and take 12 9-Volt batteries (estimated battery life, :30), but it will come with a wireless headset so you can hear the dead cat as loud as you want without disturbing your neighbors on the Hindenburg.

looooool!

 

Cool. Again it's possible that IRQ differences might not be causing the problem, but are just a sign of a problem elsewhere.

 

I look forward to seeing if things get fixed up. Also, did you see my GB bug post 2 pages back?

I did, thanks!

[rezb1t]

Can't help but wonder if the IRQ issue shown is related to the other Famicom games that are having issues. Will be sure to test them out when the next update comes around!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Not really. If the plasma dot (it's just an example) needs to be refreshed at say 120Hz, you need to have the image buffered to be able to present it twice during the 60Hz refresh period, given the image is coming too slow you can't render it direct to dot, you have to buffer it first then present it whole (to avoid tearing etc...).

 

Only if the actual panel refresh rate matches exactly the signal and the resolution doesn't require doubling/quadrupling the input signal then you're fine.

Think about if you have a 1080p60 signal that needs to be displayed on a 2160p60 TV. That TV renders 1 pixel line twice as fast (in the same time it must render 2 lines at 2160 rather than 1 at 1080p, same frequency for the whole frame but twice a many lines so it is twice as fast) so where does it gets the data from?

[in this case it is "easy" as by just waiting and buffering 1 full line at 1080p (1 line lag) it can render it twice and then swap line buffer (in that exact timeframe a second 1080p line would have been transmitted, so it needs two one-1080p line buffers).

 

It gets complicated if the actual panel requires a much faster refresh for persistence reasons (or a non sync'ed one) .... you just don't have the data ahead of time so you end up buffering a full frame.

 

I am not saying there are many panels that do that but hey ....

 

Also, I doubt that AdaptiveSync or FreeSync monitors can sync to weird fractional frame rates put out by every console ever made prior to the Playstation x. The only fractional frame rate that have any support are 59.94/29.97/23.976.

It should be possible to create a set that supports fractional frame rates. CRT monitors did it for years. I remember proudly "overclocking" my old Viewsonic (1280x1024 or something) with a 1400x1050 screen resolution. Unfortunately I gave it away prior to the HD era, but I'd bet it would have accepted 1080p over VGA.

 

We gotta think outside the box here. Most CPUs have marginal overclocking capability, and nearly all can be underclocked flawlessly. The controllers driving the LCD or OLED display should have a lot more flexibility. What we need is for a display controller to merely receive it's clock signal from the video source rather than a tiny quartz crystal withing the controller. Next, the display in pixel resolution is converted using a fast bilinear hardware scalar to the native display resolution, which would normally add a minimum one frame of lag. This is bad.

 

Instead, the "fast" bilinear algorithm parses each horizontal line of the output display and determines the exact blending ratio of input lines are assigned to each output line. Using such an algorithm, the display need only buffer 2-3 lines of input data before updating the HD raster in near realtime. H-scaling also takes place in realtime, adding a single scanline of lag. And because this special display driver updates line per line rather than buffer the entire screen with each refresh, you do not have to wait for the last line to transmit prior to updating the display. Lastly, because every line gets updated every frame, you won't see tearing artifacts as with emulation with triple buffering turned off. It's silky smooth and faster than persistence of vision. Screen lag would be measured in microseconds rather than milliseconds, at any resolution, any framerate.

[Keatah]

I wonder if and how HDCP would be carried out with such a setup?

[emubastard]

I saw in a youtube video or another post somewhere about a sall DA-15 15 inch or so extension cable for the expansion port on the NT mini, to facilitate using the 3D glasses connector. Does anyone know where that is?

Edited April 11, 2017 by emubastard

[rezb1t]

I saw in a youtube video or another post somewhere about a sall DA-15 15 inch or so extension cable for the expansion port on the NT mini, to facilitate using the 3D glasses connector. Does anyone know where that is?

That would be here! http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=192

 

There's a shorter one on the same website but it's currently out of stock.

[emubastard]

That would be here! http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=192

 

There's a shorter one on the same website but it's currently out of stock.

 

Your're awesome!

[Andromeda Stardust]

I saw in a youtube video or another post somewhere about a sall DA-15 15 inch or so extension cable for the expansion port on the NT mini, to facilitate using the 3D glasses connector. Does anyone know where that is?

6 foot connectors available from tototek.com. Best to stock up on them...

[Andromeda Stardust]

That would be here! http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23&products_id=192

 

There's a shorter one on the same website but it's currently out of stock.

Dang it, beat me to it. Still no mention of a 15 foot cable though...

[Great Hierophant]

 

I am going to use the famicom expansion port for it. The mix of inputs and outputs on it is fixed, so it's far fewer than you'd initially think. There's also audio on there. However, it does have 5V and ground (if you want to use it for 5V to run SCART you can- it is switched with system power).

 

The design I have so far uses SPI IO expanders. I am going to support full input and output on each pin of the controller and selectable power/grounds too so I can use everything pretty much that uses 9 pins, and have the 3D glasses jack as well. Ironically I am not sure if I can make it work for the famicom 3D games right out of the gate- I will have to do special planning to make this work maybe.

 

 

Originally I thought about that but figured that doing it through the fami port made more sense.

 

The official Famicom 3D System Glasses should work perfectly with the games that support it on the Nt Mini and its analog video output. The 3D Glasses plug into the Famicom Expansion Port.

 

Of course, the Famicom 3D System Glasses are very rare to find outside of Japan. It is much more common to find the Sega 3-D Glasses instead. While they both work similarly, they are made for different systems. I am sure those individuals who have the Sega 3-D Glasses would like to play the Famicom 3D games just as much as the Famicom 3D System Glasses owners would like to play the Sega 3D games.

 

I assume the Zimba 3K will have GPIO pins that can be reconfigured as the core needs them for peripheral support and physical adapters instead of adapters with active converter circuitry.

[Kismet]

 

The official Famicom 3D System Glasses should work perfectly with the games that support it on the Nt Mini and its analog video output. The 3D Glasses plug into the Famicom Expansion Port.

 

Of course, the Famicom 3D System Glasses are very rare to find outside of Japan. It is much more common to find the Sega 3-D Glasses instead. While they both work similarly, they are made for different systems. I am sure those individuals who have the Sega 3-D Glasses would like to play the Famicom 3D games just as much as the Famicom 3D System Glasses owners would like to play the Sega 3D games.

 

I assume the Zimba 3K will have GPIO pins that can be reconfigured as the core needs them for peripheral support and physical adapters instead of adapters with active converter circuitry.

 

The Sega 3D glasses just used a stereo mini-jack IIRC, but there was a thing that plugged into the card slot.

 

What would be cool, but probably not viable to do, is to figure out how to use the HDMI output and a VR HUD to make the 3D effect work.

[killersquirel]

I'm trying to copy my NES homebrews that I purchased and I'm having problems with it. I found the unrom512.bin for the copynes on the web, but when I try this plugin nothing happens and it times out. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong or of a place to get a working unrom512 plugin? Thanks.

[emubastard]

I saw a video in which there was some clearance issue with the 3D Connector, so that why the extension cable. Looks like you can even get one on Amazon Prime, so no worries.

 

I have some 3D glasses on the way and I'm excited to try them.

[phoenixdownita]

Just so we are clear the actual 3D shutter glasses themselves work interchangeably between Famicom and SMS, both adapters (or built-in for the Jap SMS) have the same jack for connecting the glasses (actually the Famicom adapter can connect 2 pairs of glasses at the same time but I think it's just a Y-split, not 2 independently controlled outputs but it's been a while since I tried). Obviously the adapters are different.

 

I own all 3 setups: Famicom + 3D adapter, US SMS + 3D adapter, JP SMS with built-in 3D adapter.

I couldn't buy the original 3D glasses without going broke but did find the adapters relatively cheap and I use compatible glasses with all of them interchangeably, aside from the cosmetic differences (and sometimes way to wear them like some have an elastic band) the technology used in the actual shutter glasses is exactly the same.

(for example eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-LCD-WIRED-SHUTTER-GLASSES-FOR-ANY-SYSTEM-WITH-STEREO-GLASSES-JACK-/161877077831

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-3D-Shutter-Glasses-for-Video-Card-/142315830084

both work with both systems (and I mean adapters),

there are more variations)

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm trying to copy my NES homebrews that I purchased and I'm having problems with it. I found the unrom512.bin for the copynes on the web, but when I try this plugin nothing happens and it times out. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong or of a place to get a working unrom512 plugin? Thanks.

RetroUSB UOROM is a bit different to UNROM512. Aside from flash saving, the mappers are extremely similar but the addressing is slightly different. They are easy enough for a hacker to convert, which is why many of the UOROM homebrews have public demos with UNROM mappers.

[Great Hierophant]

Just so we are clear the actual 3D shutter glasses themselves work interchangeably between Famicom and SMS, both adapters (or built-in for the Jap SMS) have the same jack for connecting the glasses (actually the Famicom adapter can connect 2 pairs of glasses at the same time but I think it's just a Y-split, not 2 independently controlled outputs but it's been a while since I tried). Obviously the adapters are different.

 

I own all 3 setups: Famicom + 3D adapter, US SMS + 3D adapter, JP SMS with built-in 3D adapter.

I couldn't buy the original 3D glasses without going broke but did find the adapters relatively cheap and I use compatible glasses with all of them interchangeably, aside from the cosmetic differences (and sometimes way to wear them like some have an elastic band) the technology used in the actual shutter glasses is exactly the same.

(for example eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-LCD-WIRED-SHUTTER-GLASSES-FOR-ANY-SYSTEM-WITH-STEREO-GLASSES-JACK-/161877077831

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-3D-Shutter-Glasses-for-Video-Card-/142315830084

both work with both systems (and I mean adapters),

there are more variations)

 

That is very useful information. The Famicom 3D Glasses adapter has room for two jacks (and no Famicom 3D game supports two players) but I can see the difficulty because it is so big that it can block other ports on the Nt Mini.