FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kikusui]

Hi folks, new user her! Please go easy on me!

 

The Analogue NT has been on my radar for quite some time now, I first heard about the original a few years ago but decided at that time it was too much money for what it done. Having read up on it recently and discovered the revised "NT Mini" I have decided to invest in one of these machines as thanks to the jailbreak firmware it adds to the machine a lot of what I'm interested in. As I'm a UK customer it's costing me quite a bit extra in terms of shipping & currency conversion ..... thank you Brexit!

 

Anyway, I just have one question that I can't seem to find an answer for. I know the machine can play Famicom Disk System games with the FDS hardware. Can the machine play FDS images via the SD slot & jailbreak firmware?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Enjoy your NT Mini and welcome to AA. As for your other questions, I only have an AVS to play with so IDK. You can always throw FDS images on an Everdrive N8 and play them that way...

[kevtris]

Hi folks, new user her! Please go easy on me!

 

The Analogue NT has been on my radar for quite some time now, I first heard about the original a few years ago but decided at that time it was too much money for what it done. Having read up on it recently and discovered the revised "NT Mini" I have decided to invest in one of these machines as thanks to the jailbreak firmware it adds to the machine a lot of what I'm interested in. As I'm a UK customer it's costing me quite a bit extra in terms of shipping & currency conversion ..... thank you Brexit!

 

Anyway, I just have one question that I can't seem to find an answer for. I know the machine can play Famicom Disk System games with the FDS hardware. Can the machine play FDS images via the SD slot & jailbreak firmware?

nope fds is about the only thing you can't play from sd card right now. I want to eventually add it but I don't know how long that will be before it happens.

[Great Hierophant]

If you want to enjoy FDS games now instead of waiting for kevtris to implement the functionality, you can save a alot of money by just buying an FDS RAM Adapter ($38.30 on eBay) and an FDSStick ($17.60) compared to an EverDrive N8 ($124.00 direct from Krikzz).

[Bakeriffic]

FYI: Another way to test for the susceptibility to the CRT color distortion that I reported about recently when using the NT Mini to play Gameboy games on a CRT is to use the 100 IRE screen in the 240p Test Suite. It will reproduce the same effect if left on the screen for several minutes. http://myweb.ecu.edu/bakermich/100ireCRT.jpeg

[Sneakyturtleegg]

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Posted the above youtube link in the wrong thread. Could not delete or edit. Sorry.

[Kikusui]

nope fds is about the only thing you can't play from sd card right now. I want to eventually add it but I don't know how long that will be before it happens.

Wow, a reply from the main man! It's good to know that there's a good chance that FDS will probably come at some point. I have to confess that it's the Master System that is the main draw for me. The NES was never that big here in the UK, with the Master System more common in households here and was my system as a child. The FM sound is the icing on the cake! The NES and everything else is a bonus for me! Kevtris, I want to thank you for giving me what is the ultimate version of the system of my youth!

 

If you want to enjoy FDS games now instead of waiting for kevtris to implement the functionality, you can save a alot of money by just buying an FDS RAM Adapter ($38.30 on eBay) and an FDSStick ($17.60) compared to an EverDrive N8 ($124.00 direct from Krikzz).

I've heard of the FDSStick before but never paid too much attention to it ..... until now. Thanks for drawing it to my attention.

[cfillak]

Kevtris, I know you eventually plan to implement a Genesis FPGA core which I'm super pumped for whenever that happens, along with all of the 16-bit stuff. How technically feasible would it be based on current technology/cost considerations to also implement Sega CD and 32X?

 

With the NES core, you've created something where if you wanted, you could get rid of your original NES/Famicom hardware or put it in storage. It's a functionally complete replacement. The NT Mini even allows you to plug in an FDS via expansion port. I know you've suggested that FDS functionality in FPGA is coming at some point down the line as well.

 

What I'm getting as is I doubt whatever hardware your Genesis core comes out on (Analogue NT Mini 2, Zimba3000, or something else) will take on all the extra cost to physically accommodate both the Sega CD expansion and the 32X. Ideally the Genesis, Sega CD, and 32X could all fit onto the currently affordable FPGAs. I guess I'm asking you (Kevtris) or anybody with more knowledge of the subject than me how likely this is. It seems that the Sega CD is just another 68k running at a faster clock speed plus some stuff to deal with CDs (I of course may be drastically oversimplifying this, correct me if I'm wrong). The 32X seems more complicated with 2 32-bit SH-2 processors. Interestingly, it seems the patents for the SH chips have expired recently, and they've been implemented in VHDL as open source (BSD) hardware, dubbed the "J2" core. Obviously I would think Sega CD would be a higher priority, given its much larger library and simpler hardware.

 

My selfish motivation for asking this question is that I have a Genesis, and was thinking of dabbling with the Sega CD library, but I'm wary of buying any of these old consoles with optical drives. If an FPGA Sega CD is anywhere on the horizon, even if that horizon is years away, I'd rather just wait for that and not waste my time and money on original hardware.

 

Kevtris, hope you're doing well and not too swamped and stressed with whatever it is you're busy with. Your work is amazing!

[Wolf_]

Kevtris, I know you eventually plan to implement a Genesis FPGA core which I'm super pumped for whenever that happens, along with all of the 16-bit stuff. How technically feasible would it be based on current technology/cost considerations to also implement Sega CD and 32X?

 

With the NES core, you've created something where if you wanted, you could get rid of your original NES/Famicom hardware or put it in storage. It's a functionally complete replacement. The NT Mini even allows you to plug in an FDS via expansion port. I know you've suggested that FDS functionality in FPGA is coming at some point down the line as well.

 

What I'm getting as is I doubt whatever hardware your Genesis core comes out on (Analogue NT Mini 2, Zimba3000, or something else) will take on all the extra cost to physically accommodate both the Sega CD expansion and the 32X. Ideally the Genesis, Sega CD, and 32X could all fit onto the currently affordable FPGAs. I guess I'm asking you (Kevtris) or anybody with more knowledge of the subject than me how likely this is. It seems that the Sega CD is just another 68k running at a faster clock speed plus some stuff to deal with CDs (I of course may be drastically oversimplifying this, correct me if I'm wrong). The 32X seems more complicated with 2 32-bit SH-2 processors. Interestingly, it seems the patents for the SH chips have expired recently, and they've been implemented in VHDL as open source (BSD) hardware, dubbed the "J2" core. Obviously I would think Sega CD would be a higher priority, given its much larger library and simpler hardware.

 

My selfish motivation for asking this question is that I have a Genesis, and was thinking of dabbling with the Sega CD library, but I'm wary of buying any of these old consoles with optical drives. If an FPGA Sega CD is anywhere on the horizon, even if that horizon is years away, I'd rather just wait for that and not waste my time and money on original hardware.

 

Kevtris, hope you're doing well and not too swamped and stressed with whatever it is you're busy with. Your work is amazing!

I would say odds are that it can support the simpler of the 32x or cd in the future, possibly both (but not both at once).

 

That is because I imagine Kevtris wanting to support all the snes effect chips, I mean he mapped a nes chip that was only used by a single game, and the superfx chip is as powerful as the snes itself.

 

But that raises an interesting question of if the company Kevtris works for would allow him to double the cost of fpga chips for the console to support a jailbroken firmware feature and here are my thoughts on that:

 

1) If his employer is Analogue they have never heard of a budget, they'll just sell it for more money and if you can't afford it sell an organ or something. The conversation probably went something like:

Kevtris: "Can I ha-"

Analogue: "Yes."

 

2) If his employer is Analogue and they wanted value for their investment they could demonstrate without getting into legal trouble making the console that much more powerful would enable them say that it supports 32x/sega cd games as well... but also... the Neo Geo. Analogue's first console they released was a wooden Neo Geo so I beleive that probably holds a special place in their hearts and also Neo Geo fans drop thousands on their hobby so that totally justifies an increased cost. The console + the flash cart is like $1,200 on its own. I imagine the conversation went something like this:

Kevtris: "Can I double my fpga budget so I can support snes effects chips?"

Analogue: "We don't really think increasing the cost of the console for something we can't even market publicly as a selling point is a good investment."

Kevtris: "Well I guess you could also point out that it would be powerful enough to support 32x, maybe sega cd, and some console called the Neo-"

Analogue: "Giggity giggity goo!"

 

3) Regardless of who his employer is they are probably aware that word of mouth about the jailbroken firmware is directly responsible for 9 out of 10 nt mini sales as not many people would drop $500 on just a hi def nes and consider adding important features to the jailbroken firmware a worthwhile production cost.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Wolf_

[kevtris]

Kevtris, I know you eventually plan to implement a Genesis FPGA core which I'm super pumped for whenever that happens, along with all of the 16-bit stuff. How technically feasible would it be based on current technology/cost considerations to also implement Sega CD and 32X?

 

With the NES core, you've created something where if you wanted, you could get rid of your original NES/Famicom hardware or put it in storage. It's a functionally complete replacement. The NT Mini even allows you to plug in an FDS via expansion port. I know you've suggested that FDS functionality in FPGA is coming at some point down the line as well.

 

What I'm getting as is I doubt whatever hardware your Genesis core comes out on (Analogue NT Mini 2, Zimba3000, or something else) will take on all the extra cost to physically accommodate both the Sega CD expansion and the 32X. Ideally the Genesis, Sega CD, and 32X could all fit onto the currently affordable FPGAs. I guess I'm asking you (Kevtris) or anybody with more knowledge of the subject than me how likely this is. It seems that the Sega CD is just another 68k running at a faster clock speed plus some stuff to deal with CDs (I of course may be drastically oversimplifying this, correct me if I'm wrong). The 32X seems more complicated with 2 32-bit SH-2 processors. Interestingly, it seems the patents for the SH chips have expired recently, and they've been implemented in VHDL as open source (BSD) hardware, dubbed the "J2" core. Obviously I would think Sega CD would be a higher priority, given its much larger library and simpler hardware.

 

My selfish motivation for asking this question is that I have a Genesis, and was thinking of dabbling with the Sega CD library, but I'm wary of buying any of these old consoles with optical drives. If an FPGA Sega CD is anywhere on the horizon, even if that horizon is years away, I'd rather just wait for that and not waste my time and money on original hardware.

 

Kevtris, hope you're doing well and not too swamped and stressed with whatever it is you're busy with. Your work is amazing!

Sega CD and 32X look to be a huge pain. It is like creating another whole videogame system or worse. Don't be hoping for those any time soon.

 

Awhile back I got rid of most of my collection. It was just taking up space and I never played the games off carts, preferring to play them on FPGAs instead.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

My selfish motivation for asking this question is that I have a Genesis, and was thinking of dabbling with the Sega CD library, but I'm wary of buying any of these old consoles with optical drives. If an FPGA Sega CD is anywhere on the horizon, even if that horizon is years away, I'd rather just wait for that and not waste my time and money on original hardware.

 

Kevtris, hope you're doing well and not too swamped and stressed with whatever it is you're busy with. Your work is amazing!

Add TurboCD to the list. Those things are expensive and janky as hell...

 

ISO rips would be sweet as honey. And the Turbo CD hardware is much simpler than the Sega in terms of added components. No coprocessors, just loads of extra RAM.

[Skins4thewin]

Hey Kevtris, had a quick ? For you. I am thinking hard about putting a preorder down for the Analogue NT Mini before they start shipping this month, but i'm afraid that if I do that now that i'll be stuck at the end of the preorder line waiting for months for mine to ship. Do you know if there will indeed be enough stock to fulfill preorders that are placed now vs months ago? I tried contacting Analogue thru the website but haven't been able to reach anyone.

 

I am also curious to know if there has been any changes or improvements to this new batch, such as improved pin connectors or anything of that nature. Would be nice to know if this new batch will be improved in any way vs the old batch or if they will be 100% identical. Please let me know, I am eager to place an order but would like to verify these things before I plunk down this much coin. Thanks

Edited September 2, 2017 by Skins4thewin

[kevtris]

Hey Kevtris, had a quick ? For you. I am thinking hard about putting a preorder down for the Analogue NT Mini before they start shipping this month, but i'm afraid that if I do that now that i'll be stuck at the end of the preorder line waiting for months for mine to ship. Do you know if there will indeed be enough stock to fulfill preorders that are placed now vs months ago? I tried contacting Analogue thru the website but haven't been able to reach anyone.

 

I am also curious to know if there has been any changes or improvements to this new batch, such as improved pin connectors or anything of that nature. Would be nice to know if this new batch will be improved in any way vs the old batch or if they will be 100% identical. Please let me know, I am eager to place an order but would like to verify these things before I plunk down this much coin. Thanks

 

Pretty sure it will ship when they arrive if you preorder now. The build is the same, except I added a 180 ohm resistor from 5V to the 5V pin on the DB-15 so that scart stuff will work properly. This 5V is switched with system power. Other than that, everything else should be the same.

[Skins4thewin]

Ah ok, thanks What exactly was the issue with SCART? Is that resistor something that can be put in the cable itself in the older version? Will preorders be up for at least a few more days if I need time to decide?

Edited September 3, 2017 by Skins4thewin

[kevtris]

Ah ok, thanks What exactly was the issue with SCART? Is that resistor something that can be put in the cable itself in the older version? Will preorders be up for at least a few more days if I need time to decide?

apparently SCART needed 5V to tell some TV's to switch. People were getting it from the USB socket for this purpose. I don't know how long they will be up, I only do the programming/hardware end and not the sales end of the equation.

[Skins4thewin]

Gotcha. I appreciate the help. That's a shame that the cartridge pin connectors weren't revised... I heard that many ppl have had issues getting games to play with them. I heard someone say thougu that the 5V issue was only for PAL tv's. Is that accurate?

Edited September 4, 2017 by Skins4thewin

[atmn]

Gotcha. I appreciate the help. That's a shame that the cartridge pin connectors weren't revised... I heard that many ppl have had issues getting games to play with them. I heard someone say thougu that the 5V issue was only for PAL tv's. Is that accurate?

 

I havent had any problems with the cartridge slots, works like any top loader. The only thing I can think of is that it does not have that "bulb" that makes the cart more.. stable. But I wiggle the cart anyways so there is no issue there, at least for me.

 

Its correct thats only will affecting PAL-TVS, since stock NTSC tvs does not support RGB I think. The thing is that most of PAL TVs that supports RGB share the channel with composite and it need that signal to switch to RGB mode. There is some TVS with standalone RGB channels like my cheap no name TV with super RGB image.

 

Will there be any schematics to connect a 180ohm to the DB15? Would like to do that, rather on top of the board so it wont show through the plexi...

[Skins4thewin]

Glad to hear that about the cart pins.

What I heard was that games need to be extra clean to work well, cleaner than usual. Good to hear that it's a non-issue. Would like to know that myself about the resistor. I have an opportunity to purchase a new sealed one from the earlier release and wouldn't mind just soldering the resistor in myself if it's a simple add.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Skins4thewin

[cacophony]

Glad to hear that about the cart pins.

What I heard was that games need to be extra clean to work well, cleaner than usual. Good to hear that it's a non-issue. Would like to know that myself about the resistor. I have an opportunity to purchase a new sealed one from the earlier release and wouldn't mind just soldering the resistor in myself if it's a simple add.

 

The cart slot is great. I've never had to clean a game to get it to work, which was not the case for my AVS or original NES. Also, the slot is not a death grip, which means the contacts are subjected to less wear.

Edited September 4, 2017 by cacophony

[Keatah]

I would expect any premium system to have connectors which have multiple contact wipers per connection/pin.

[Wolf_]

Given the number of systems this puppy supports I think for the next version it would be worthwhile to just have an interchangeable system cart slot where you could plug in nes/sms/gg/snes/genesis/32x/atari/gameboy/ect cartridge holders. That way if things get or do not get supported in future core updates you could just buy the cartridge holders for the cores you are interested in. Also in future versions could be compatible with the cartridge holders so if you later on buy the n64 or gamecumbe models then any cartridge holders you had bought would work with those systems making them a one time investment. Also if you wear the pins out via extreme use then you could easily pick up a replacement. Just a thought.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Wolf_

[Skins4thewin]

I suppose I should ask if this 5V RGB issue affects PVM's or the Framemeister, as those are what I primarily use. If not then I would be in the clear.

[Zonie]

$449? That thing is expensive. It's very nice. VERY nice. Don't get me wrong. BUT. Why does it need to be machined out of a solid piece of T6061? Jeez. That and it's powder coating is at least half the cost. Also in this day and age, HDMI is sufficient. Doesn't really need all the other formats.

 

Making it more cost effective would bring down the unit cost and increase the market, which would bring the unit cost down further, opening it up to a much larger audience.

This could be a $100 console with a decent margin...

 

I think this thing really has been the recipient of scope creep.

 

A bare board version would be of interest to me...

 

Sorry, My two cents.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Zonie

[Wolf_]

$449? That thing is expensive. It's very nice. VERY nice. Don't get me wrong. BUT. Why does it need to be machined out of a solid piece of T6061? Jeez. That and it's powder coating is half the cost. Also in this day and age, HDMI is sufficient. Doesn't really need all the other formats.

 

Making it more cost effective would bring down the unit cost and increase the market, which would bring the unit cost down further, opening it up to a much larger audience.

This could be a $100 console with a decent margin...

 

I think this thing really has been the recipient of scope creep.

 

Sorry, My two cents.

The case is absolutely something that should be optional for the "pro" model but all the analogue outputs are accomplished via a single connector and that is actually a big selling point for a ton of people that either want to play on a crt or need to because they are playing lightgun games.