FPGA Based Videogame System

[kevtris]

Yep, I been at work. sorry 'bout that. hehe. I can't really answer a lot of questions yet, but I can say these things:

 

Yes, this is 100% my FPGA design here and it is not one of the other SNES cores.

It runs all custom chip carts, super gameboy (1 and 2), game saver+ (lol), even tested a doctor sf disk based thinger, and the sd2snes is what I used during dev so that works great as well. I tested the Sufami Turbo and that works as well. Basically it runs every single thing I can stuff into the cart slot. I did a lot of testing with dozens of carts and all the various add-on devices I have and could find. I have not tested the MSU-1 but since the SD2SNES itself works 100%, I don't see why this won't work either. I will try it soon just to confirm. Audio input on the cart slot is supported and that's mainly what it adds.

 

There's a completely new scaler designed specifically for this (vs. the nt mini's) and I spent a lot of time to make sure video output is the best it can be. It's still zero lag like before or you can have the fully buffered experience like on the framemeister.

 

Yes it does do deinterlacing so RPM racing works as well as the menu screens and such that use that.

 

There is a cool blending mode so i.e. Jurassic Park's overlays and Kirby's Dreamland 3 look great (you can turn that on/off) too. Scanlines were improved and gamma correction is in there if you prefer it to have that CRTish look.

 

Yes, it uses the Cyclone V similar to the mini but it's the A4 version instead of the A2 so lots more resources! (yeay)

 

I tested all the SNES peripherals except the light gun, and they work fine including multitaps, the mouse, etc.

[Sbeehive]

Also it isn't like every game speedrun by charity is on the nes or snes. Furthermore speedrunning is a fairly niche use.

 

I'm totally not saying analogue output shouldn't be an option btw, just that most people won't care about speed running enough for it to be like 3 points. I would say something along the lines of:

1) The gameclock isn't accurate over hdmi.

2) Lightgun games don't work on digital displays.

3) A huge portion of the community love crts. They currently have the fastest response times, natural scanlines, play lightgun games, and satisfy the people looking to own a piece of their past. (people like it is a totally justifiable reason on its own)

4) Converting digital to analogue and finding a converter that doesn't reduce quality or introduce lag is going suck and still won't fix the gameclock.

 

If you do 480p and go the VGA route could the clock theoretically be set to the correct time? I mean not that anyone is developing the system here but does VGA have the same restrictions as HDMI?

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

Side note...looks like the AVS just became obsolete...expect a price drop to 120 in the next few months.

AVS is a completely unrelated RetroUSB product. What reason would he have to reduce the price, other than overheads met or cheaper components? NT Mini is still abhorrently expensive, and based on the cost reductions of the Super NT, plus a bigger FPGA, I am hoping a jailbreak firmware is coming with more muscle than before. If not, it will complement my RetroUSB AVS quite nicely. Now if only people can get off their lazy butts and build me an FPGA Atari and Genesis...

 

PS, just kidding on the "lazy" part. These new consoles (and the developers who created them) are awesome.

 

One other thing that hasn't been clarified yet. I have an older flat panel with 720p/1080i only. Will 720p video still be an option? 240p scales perfectly IMO.

[Wolf_]

Yep, I been at work. sorry 'bout that. hehe. I can't really answer a lot of questions yet, but I can say these things:

 

Yes, this is 100% my FPGA design here and it is not one of the other SNES cores.

It runs all custom chip carts, super gameboy (1 and 2), game saver+ (lol), even tested a doctor sf disk based thinger, and the sd2snes is what I used during dev so that works great as well. I tested the Sufami Turbo and that works as well. Basically it runs every single thing I can stuff into the cart slot. I did a lot of testing with dozens of carts and all the various add-on devices I have and could find. I have not tested the MSU-1 but since the SD2SNES itself works 100%, I don't see why this won't work either. I will try it soon just to confirm. Audio input on the cart slot is supported and that's mainly what it adds.

 

There's a completely new scaler designed specifically for this (vs. the nt mini's) and I spent a lot of time to make sure video output is the best it can be. It's still zero lag like before or you can have the fully buffered experience like on the framemeister.

 

Yes it does do deinterlacing so RPM racing works as well as the menu screens and such that use that.

 

There is a cool blending mode so i.e. Jurassic Park's overlays and Kirby's Dreamland 3 look great (you can turn that on/off) too. Scanlines were improved and gamma correction is in there if you prefer it to have that CRTish look.

 

Yes, it uses the Cyclone V similar to the mini but it's the A4 version instead of the A2 so lots more resources! (yeay)

 

I tested all the SNES peripherals except the light gun, and they work fine including multitaps, the mouse, etc.

Can you say anything about rom support on the jailbroken firmware? Include two smilies if you support all the fx chips!

[+5-11under]

Kev, will the "Core Store"^TM be open for the Super?

[cacophony]

Yep, I been at work. sorry 'bout that. hehe. I can't really answer a lot of questions yet, but I can say these things:

 

Yes, this is 100% my FPGA design here and it is not one of the other SNES cores.

It runs all custom chip carts, super gameboy (1 and 2), game saver+ (lol), even tested a doctor sf disk based thinger, and the sd2snes is what I used during dev so that works great as well. I tested the Sufami Turbo and that works as well. Basically it runs every single thing I can stuff into the cart slot. I did a lot of testing with dozens of carts and all the various add-on devices I have and could find. I have not tested the MSU-1 but since the SD2SNES itself works 100%, I don't see why this won't work either. I will try it soon just to confirm. Audio input on the cart slot is supported and that's mainly what it adds.

 

Very cool

 

Can you confirm that the Super Everdrive works?

Edited October 17, 2017 by cacophony

[kevtris]

Kev, will the "Core Store"^TM be open for the Super?

 

I cannot comment on such things at this time.

 

Very cool

 

Can you confirm that the Super Everdrive works?

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yes it works.

[Sbeehive]

Hey Kev,

 

Love your work man.

 

Who do we talk to/email that we'd be interested in an analogue/240p version of this console as well?

 

Thanks!

[+5-11under]

 

I cannot comment on such things at this time.

 

Okay, thanks.

Even if the 8 bit consoles were included at some point, that would be very cool and appreciated. I'd understand, I guess, if other 16 bit consoles weren't available.

[Wolf_]

 

I cannot comment on such things at this time.

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yes it works.

Would you be able to test a scope on it using a hdmi to vga converter to find out if lightgun games will work or not?

[Pixelboy]

It runs all custom chip carts, super gameboy (1 and 2), game saver+ (lol), even tested a doctor sf disk based thinger, and the sd2snes is what I used during dev so that works great as well. I tested the Sufami Turbo and that works as well. Basically it runs every single thing I can stuff into the cart slot. I did a lot of testing with dozens of carts and all the various add-on devices I have and could find.

Does it run this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWjifZaJm60

 

Not that it's really important to me personally, especially given that this GBA adaptor doesn't output via HDMI. I'm just curious.

[Guspaz]

I would like to ask a question that is *cough* totally unrelated to this Analogue stuff. *cough cough*

 

What particular FPGA was planned for the Zimba 3000?

[Tusecsy]

This is complete speculation on my part, but here is my 2 cents about jailbreaking and cores. Analogue is a company that is in business to make money. They have a long term business plan, and Kevtris appears to be a part of that now. They have recently released NES clone consoles and are now onto the SNES. So what is next? I would think separate clone systems for the Sega Genesis, TurboGrafx-16, Neo Geo, etc. They just hired Kevtris full time and I don't think they will allow him to release cores for systems that would conflict with future product lines and business plans. As a full time employee, I am sure Kevtris signed a contract containing clauses, and likely a no compete clause if he leaves. If the Super NT is going to get any cores, they will be ones that do not interfere with Analogue's business model (Like the ones released on the NT Mini). I'd even be willing to bet that we don't see a NES core on the Super NT. Analogue is still trying to sell the NT Mini, so there is no reason they would allow or release a NES core. However, that could happen if or when the NT Mini is discontinued.

 

If nothing else, I would be more than happy with Super NT jailbreak firmware that simply allows SNES roms to be played from a SD card. I wouldn't get your hopes up for jailbreak firmware with a bunch of cores that haven't been developed yet and are part of Analogue's future business plans. Especially at the price point for the Super NT.

Lol, you're willing to bet.....how much would you like to bet you are wrong on all of that?

 

This doesn't exclude them from putting out say a genesis body with the same fpga. The cores will be ported, i'll bet you a 1000 bucks.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Pixelboy]

Lol, you're willing to bet.....how much would you like to bet you are wrong on all of that?

 

This doesn't exclude them from putting out say a genesis body with the same fpga. The cores will be ported, i'll bet you a 1000 bucks.

Possibly, but do you see the problem with that? If everyone buys the Super NT, and a Genesis core is released for it, what incentive would anyone have to purchase a Genesis NT, except perhaps to run the original Genesis carts and play with genuine Genesis controllers? I don't think the Genesis NT would sell that well under these conditions. It would make more business sense for them to make the Genesis core exclusive to the Genesis NT, and to offer all the 8-bit cores on all the NT incarnations. The same logic applies to the Turbografx NT or the Neo-Geo NT, by the way.

 

EDIT: On the other hand, since the Genesis has "regular" DB9 controller ports, does this mean that real ColecoVision controllers could possibly be used with the Genesis NT running the ColecoVision core? Now that would be interesting...

[Keatah]

As a company starts growing, they start making variations on their existing models. Ideally corporate would want:

 

1 console

1 fpga

1 core

1 system

 

Rinse and repeat till all the early videogame consoles are replicated. Forget about all-in-ones. Companies never really chase after such products. It hurts their ability to maximize profits.

 

No one here wants to hear that, but that is reality. Look at automakers, look at camera makers..

Edited October 17, 2017 by Keatah

[Wolf_]

Possibly, but do you see the problem with that? If everyone buys the Super NT, and a Genesis core is released for it, what incentive would anyone have to purchase a Genesis NT, except perhaps to run the original Genesis carts and play with genuine Genesis controllers? I don't think the Genesis NT would sell that well under these conditions. It would make more business sense for them to make the Genesis core exclusive to the Genesis NT, and to offer all the 8-bit cores on all the NT incarnations. The same logic applies to the Turbografx NT or the Neo-Geo NT, by the way.

That's exactly why I don't think they plan on making those consoles. If Kevtris wasn't allowed to make cores anymore then he would probably be allowed to say it. Also in the interview when asked about jailbroken firmware Analogue responded that they want people to be able to do whatever they want with their consoles. Most likely referring to the way the consoles are made so that you can flash firmware to them without risk of breaking the device. They obviously can't say they want people to use their device to break the law but they came as close as they could without implicating themselves.

 

Analogue has always sold out of everything they make so they've never had to worry about selling the same hardware in a bunch of different shells and losing money if they can't get someone to buy the same product 3 times. I really think given how affordable the super nt is they will be completely selling out 24/7. I mean it is $50 more than a retron 5 and a retron 5 performs how the super nt would preform if it set itself on fire and was extinguished with dog piss, and people still buy retron 5s all the time!

[Keatah]

Also it's about time kev started working for Analogue. Best hope that Analogue has management that won't screw up.

 

Technically (and business-wise) the former mythical zimba 3000 would still be possible in the current environment. And be completely modular, including a "standardized" motherboard that can be swapped out like a beige-box PC. Along with a bevy of (unsightly) adapters.

 

Analogue could do it , but it would have to cost nearly $1000 or more out of principle and marketing.

[Pixelboy]

That's exactly why I don't think they plan on making those consoles. If Kevtris wasn't allowed to make cores anymore then he would probably be allowed to say it.

Ah, but isn't it convenient that the Super NT will be sold at less than 200$? If the Genesis NT is sold at roughly the same price, then collectors can purchase both, while Genesis fans will feel free to skip the Super NT and purchase the Genesis NT instead. If all the 8-bit cores are made available on both the Super NT and Genesis NT, then both FPGA machines become equally desirable from a marketing standpoint. It all makes good business sense, at least to me.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

I seriously doubt that. I would absolutely despise analogue if they tried to release a fpga genesis or something now with exactly the same internals as the super nt and wouldn't allow a jailbreak for it. Everything they have said makes it sound like they are completely in favor of people doing whatever they want with the console. My best guess at their business strategy is that they simply plan to continue using more powerful fpgas in their consoles to cover more generations that the previous one could not so at no point would anything released on the jailbroken firmware cannibalize their own business.

 

Releasing 3 different consoles with switched up cases and identical internals after you buy the soul of the hero of the people is a surefire way to let the butthurt rain down on you like only internet rage can provide.

 

It is interesting to wonder how Kevtris' contract is worded because it should say that they own anything he does which would mean they would have to give him permission to work on the jailbroken firmware for him to release it which means that if anyone came after them for it they could be found responsible. Maybe it says something along the lines of him being allowed to work on anything he wants on his own time as long as he does not sell it?

 

I reallllly hope they have this option.

 

Wolf, My point is this: Analogue probably has plans to release other retro clone systems (Genesis, TG16, Neo Geo, etc) in the future, like in a year or several years. And for money since they are a business. If they do, there is no way they are going to let their super star employee release certain cores for free if it is a conflict of interest. Straight business 101. Even if Kevtris wanted to make those cores, why would he program them for free considering it takes many months to develop just one of them? Kevtris deserves to and will get paid for core development that takes so much time. From a business perspective with some logic and reason applied, it makes no sense that 16-bit cores are coming for free in a jailbreak firmware for the Super NT. I just don't believe we will see cores for other 16-bit systems on the Super NT. Analogue will be releasing other 16-bit systems as separate and new products in the future. Yes the Super NT is open source, so anyone can hack it and make cores for it. I don't think Analogue would make a system and lock it down. But how many people actually know how to hack and program the FPGAs in the NT Mini and the Super NT? I say one person. The guy who designed and programmed it. He is employed by Analogue and unfortunately I believe he is restricted by contract from releasing certain firmware for free.

[RevQuixo]

My thoughts...official controller and cartridge adapters to support new cores sold by analogue. That’s their continued income stream until generation 3 comes out. Wash rinse repeat.

[kevtris]

Does it run this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWjifZaJm60

 

Not that it's really important to me personally, especially given that this GBA adaptor doesn't output via HDMI. I'm just curious.

 

If it runs on an SNES it should run on this. If it's just a pins-converter, it obviously won't work.

 

I would like to ask a question that is *cough* totally unrelated to this Analogue stuff. *cough cough*

 

What particular FPGA was planned for the Zimba 3000?

The Z3K had two cyclone V chips. both the A2 (scaler) and A4 (main). I later thought about trimming the scaler back to an max10 or similar.

[RevQuixo]

Also everyone has been calling Kev an employee of Analogue, but it still could just be long term contract work and misinterpretation on the part of the article writers. Kev has been calling this contract work for he last year after all.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Also everyone has been calling Kev an employee of Analogue, but it still could just be long term contract work and misinterpretation on the part of the article writers. Kev has been calling this contract work for he last year after all.

 

Fair point, but a hair split. He still had to sign a contract with clauses to work for them.

[Andromeda Stardust]

There's a completely new scaler designed specifically for this (vs. the nt mini's) and I spent a lot of time to make sure video output is the best it can be. It's still zero lag like before or you can have the fully buffered experience like on the framemeister.

One quick question I have, is some older flat panel HDTV sets support 720p/1080i only. Would your console support 720p mode as an option for these sets, or anyone who doesn't want to crop the picture with 5x scaling? Thanks...

 

Awesome to know now what some speculated all along: confirmation that your "secret" FPGA commission project was none other than the Super Nintendo. Bravo!

[Keatah]

That's true.. so many posts ago..