FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kismet]

For those thinking that this is just a reshelled NT mini, actually the new FPGA chip opens a lot more possibilities.

 

From what I understood from Kevtris the Mini didn't have enough FPGA space to run an HDMI upscaler with more complex cores (e.g. Minimig AGA on MiST takes all the space without upscaler). But the new Super NT should be in par even if the upscaler takes half of the chip.

 

So in a way this is a needed upgrade towards having a true Z3000 type of machine. If one day a developer API and USB support becomes available, this could theoretically receive ports of cores from the MiST.

 

I'm excited to see what comes out of this. Even without core store or 3rd party, if it sells well it would establish a nicer price point for these kind of machines.

 

I think it's too early to predict what the Super NT is ultimately capable of, but it would likely fall short of what the Z3K is ultimately what Kevtris wants to make at some point. But since the SNES was expandable via the cartridge slot in the first place, it's possible to do some firmware voodoo and plug in a cartridge that switches the internal FPGA into a frame-doubler/scaler and uses the cartridge FPGA to replicate something else. Like you could do "Super Gameboy" type of cartridges with smaller FPGA's.

[Schizophretard]

If they make a limited edition analog version then I hope it comes in a Jag shell.

[Bruce82]

only minus imo is the not light gun support =,( ofc my mini is hooked on my 65" 4k tv but what i have showed system in retro groups with old tvs and lightguns work everytime its been just amazing reaction "price is high but you get what you payed for"

 

ofc i am not looking to get scope games in snes ;D never really liked scope was there like 2 or 3 nice games

 

I am fighting with myself not to buy this super NT right away looks still really nice ;D thank good I got snes classic mini to help my pain little bit ;D

[Bakeriffic]

That said there are a number of 4K TVs that can cleanly 2x scale 1080p to 2160p. Some 2017 models include the Sony X900E, and LG's OLEDs.

I was a bit concerned when I read this because I recently dropped about $2,700 on a 2017 Sony X850E 4K TV. Upon consulting the reviews on rtings.com, which cover input lag, I discovered that they found that lag from a 1080p source @ 60Hz is similar between the two models (31.8 ms on the X850E and 31.5 ms on the X900E). I was also somewhat surprised to see that out of all of the tested sources on these native 4K sets, input lag was lower for 1080p courses than 4K sources.

 

4K sources add only a few milliseconds more lag but this begs the question of whether there would actually be any lag-related benefits of upscaling retro games to 4k instead of 1080p. I suppose that it depends on the TV since there a few 4K sets on the market that have lower input lag with 4K sources than 1080p. The lowest input lag on any modern 4K set seems to be in the neighborhood of 20 ms (about one frame). The most important factor when it comes to lag seems to be the frequency of the 1080p signal since lag at 120Hz is often about half the lag at 60Hz. Is there any chance that the Super NT will support 1080p @ 120Hz or will it be limited to 60Hz?

[Wolf_]

I was a bit concerned when I read this because I recently dropped about $2,700 on a 2017 Sony X850E 4K TV. Upon consulting the reviews on rtings.com, which cover input lag, I discovered that they found that lag from a 1080p source @ 60Hz is similar between the two models (31.8 ms on the X850E and 31.5 ms on the X900E). I was also somewhat surprised to see that out of all of the tested sources on these native 4K sets, input lag was lower for 1080p courses than 4K sources.

 

4K sources add only a few milliseconds more lag but this begs the question of whether there would actually be any lag-related benefits of upscaling retro games to 4k instead of 1080p. I suppose that it depends on the TV since there a few 4K sets on the market that have lower input lag with 4K sources than 1080p. The lowest input lag on any modern 4K set seems to be in the neighborhood of 20 ms (about one frame). The most important factor when it comes to lag seems to be the frequency of the 1080p signal since lag at 120Hz is often about half the lag at 60Hz. Is there any chance that the Super NT will support 1080p @ 120Hz or will it be limited to 60Hz?

I would say the odds are 99.9% against it supporting 120hz because it would need to be twice as powerful as the snes + 1080p multipliers to generate twice as many frames and also it would need to reduce the game clock speed to run at 60hz and the halve it because otherwise doubling the frame generation would make it run at 2x speed.

 

For the record anything over 17ms of lag is 1 full frame of lag. When people use setups like an analogue console into a hdmi converter (even the xrgb mini adds 1.5-2 frames of lag, only the ossc doesn't add any and generic ones can add ~5 frames) to a high input lag display (another 1.5-2 frames) and use a bluetooth controller of some kind (1-2 frames depending on the controller) and you end up with close to 10 frames or 0.1 seconds of delay which is constantly noticeable and will absolutely ruin your day in many games.

 

That is why I can't suggest strongly enough using a fpga console, native hdmi out solution (like the ultra-64 or gcvideoX), or ossc for converting. And controller extension cables (add 0 lag), or the retrousb nes controller for wireless responses faster than bluetooth. As for tvs right now I would say the absolute best on the market is: the TCL55p https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y6FSV5Q55", 4k, 15ms input lag across all resolutions(less than a frame), $500 on sale. No, it isn't oled but oled tech isn't ready yet. (Don't believe me? Use an oled heavily for a year or two and see what kind of burn in and color degradation issues you get) In a few years when Oled tech gets all the kinks worked out, then you can upgrade. Right now it is only good if you can drop a few grand on a new one every year or two or don't use it much.

[atmn]

Anyone knows how long the preorder will be up to be able to get it in the first batch?

 

Convinced my brother to get one.. Working on cutting some shipping costs to EU..

[Toth]

Anyone who has an Nt Mini pre-ordered get shipping info yet from this most recent batch? They said they will be able to ship them out this week but the week is quickly coming to an end.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Toth

[killersquirel]

Woohoo! $55 for shipping. I think I spent that or maybe just a slight bit more for the NT Mini.

[RogueLeader1101]

Anyone who has an Nt Mini pre-ordered get shipping info yet from this most recent batch? They said they will be able to ship them out this week but the week is quickly coming to an end.

I ordered one on 07/27/2017 and am part of this batch. I haven't received a shipping confirmation yet.

[thucom]

Recieved my shipping info for the nt mini at 5:41 PM ET today.

[RadikusRLZ]

Analogue told me that they are gonna make also Premium edition of the Super NT mini much later. So there will be all in one, like RGB, S-video, Composite, Component stuff and better case for the console and so on. You know what I mean like NT Mini is Premium product. But the price is much more.

Edited October 21, 2017 by RadikusRLZ

[Andromeda Stardust]

Analogue told me that they are gonna make also Premium edition of the Super NT mini much later. So there will be all in one, like RGB, S-video, Composite, Component stuff and better case for the console and so on. You know what I mean like NT Mini is Premium product. But the price is much more.

So they release a premium model of the Super NT and hopefully a budget model of the NT Mini. I hope they release the jailbreak software for the budget models.

 

As far as NES goes, RetroUSB's AVS fills the budget role nicely for an NES HDMI solution. Customers looking for a budget HDMI NES can already buy one. I did, and the Super NT makes one hell of a good spiritual successor to it.

 

So I can still get analog AV / light gun out of my original consoles, and nothing I own supports RGB so that tech is kind of lost on me. It's either dinosaur composite or HDMI for my game setup.

[cacophony]

How hard would it be to create an adapter that lets you plug Nintendo's new SNES classic controllers into an original SNES / Super Nt ?

The controllers are really nice, and feel indistinguishable from OG controllers with the exception that they're brand new. I've now got two of them, and when Feb rolls around it would be nice to put them to good use!

[cacophony]

So they release a premium model of the Super NT and hopefully a budget model of the NT Mini...

 

Analogue did say that they had no intention of revisiting the NES (it was in some recent article I read, don't recall the source). It sounds like they're going to put all their focus on other systems going forward, but perhaps if enough people ask for it they'll eventually come out with something.

[Wolf_]

 

Analogue did say that they had no intention of revisiting the NES (it was in some recent article I read, don't recall the source). It sounds like they're going to put all their focus on other systems going forward, but perhaps if enough people ask for it they'll eventually come out with something.

Imo that simply means they don't intend to make more products related to it, which is almost certainly because it will be supported by the Super Nt.

[Great Hierophant]

Analogue told me that they are gonna make also Premium edition of the Super NT mini much later. So there will be all in one, like RGB, S-video, Composite, Component stuff and better case for the console and so on. You know what I mean like NT Mini is Premium product. But the price is much more.

 

Shuuuuure it did... Attach an email chain or a link to a Facebook or Twitter post where they confirmed a high-end analog version or I'll just assume you made that up.

Imo that simply means they don't intend to make more products related to it, which is almost certainly because it will be supported by the Super Nt.

 

Until they discontinue manufacturing the Nt Mini, there is no need to revisit the NES in yet another product.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Great Hierophant

[AtariNerd]

I guess a kludge around the added chip issue could be to have multiple cores, some supporting one or some chips, but not others; manually selecting which one to use with a particular ROM or divvying up the ROMS up into folders according to support. Not sure if one could cover them all that way, as some special chips alone or paired, probably would exceed the FPGAs capability. And some chips were used for one or just a handful of games...quite a lot of effort for marginal reward, to simulate them all.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Standard User

[Wolf_]

Until they discontinue manufacturing the Nt Mini, there is no need to revisit the NES in yet another product.

Except to help sell their current product and make it (the nes core) accessible to more people at a much improved price point.

 

 

I guess a kludge around the added chip issue could be to have multiple cores, some supporting one or some chips, but not others, manually selecting which one to use or divvying up the ROMS up into folders according to support. Not sure if one could cover them all that way, as some special chips alone or paired, probably would exceed the FPGAs capability.

That method wasn't needed for any of the mappers the nes supports or any other console so I wouldn't worry about that yet. That is a potential solution though, just not the ideal one.

[RadikusRLZ]

 

Shuuuuure it did... Attach an email chain or a link to a Facebook or Twitter post where they confirmed a high-end analog version or I'll just assume you made that up.

 

You can always ask your self about the Premium edition of SNES NT, What a stupid comment.

[Great Hierophant]

You can always ask your self about the Premium edition of SNES NT, What a stupid comment.

 

I don't know what a "SNES NT" is. We can each ask ourselves whether Analogue will make a premium edition of the Super Nt, but until they come out and confirm that they are going to do that, its all speculation. Maybe they will, maybe they will do something else. Anything else, like "Analogue told me that..." is a lie or a delusion unless you have some proof.

[RadikusRLZ]

 

I don't know what a "SNES NT" is. We can each ask ourselves whether Analogue will make a premium edition of the Super Nt, but until they come out and confirm that they are going to do that, its all speculation. Maybe they will, maybe they will do something else. Anything else, like "Analogue told me that..." is a lie or a delusion unless you have some proof.

I mean that you can also send email message to the Analogue they will reply to you. Like I did. So you dont have to spekulate anything

Edited October 21, 2017 by RadikusRLZ

[Wolf_]

I have proof I'm not going to share about something I said was confirmed and you're stupid for asking for it. Get your own proof to back up my claims.

[11numbers]

I mean that you can also send email message to the Analogue they will reply to you. Like I did. So you dont have to spekulate anything

I think that Great Hierophant's point is that ever since the announcement of the Super NT there have been a ton of people in this thread and over at NA that are clearly just making things up and making all kinds of guarantees that they have no business making. So we are at the point where if you have news post a source because we are past the point where we can just take everyone for their word.

[RadikusRLZ]

I think that Great Hierophant's point is that ever since the announcement of the Super NT there have been a ton of people in this thread and over at NA that are clearly just making things up and making all kinds of guarantees that they have no business making. So we are at the point where if you have news post a source because we are past the point where we can just take everyone for their word.

They say that if peoples are interesting about the Premium edition of Super NT. They will make it much later. So all you are interesting. All you have to do is to send messages to the Analogue.

[Wolf_]

They say that if peoples are interesting about the Premium edition of Super NT. They will make it much later. So all you are interesting. All you have to do is to send messages to the Analogue.

Them saying IF something has enough interest they MIGHT do it is NOT a "confirmation". They also never mentioned the high end shell that version would have which you seem to have conjured from your imagination.