FPGA Based Videogame System

[cacophony]

My guess is that after the Super NT is released, they will either produce a pin adapter to allow the FC/NES carts to be used on it, and discontinue the NT Mini once they run out of inventory, or they will update the NT Mini to have the A6 Cyclone V, and call it the NT Mini+ , and release a pin adapter for that.

 

Obviously Analogue would make more money by selling pin adapters rather than essentially identical consoles with different branding. So I'd expect "pin adapters" for the common consoles, and people will just use their flash carts.

 

That doesn't sound like Analogue at all! Kevtris might release adapters, but I think the chance of Analogue doing such a thing would be close to zero.

[gulps]

 

I want to point out that in the Nintendo Power magazine, I will always associate that SMB screen with having a more orange color, while knowing that the blue was slightly more on the violet side. So I'd say the FCEUX palette looks like the intended color, but that Sony CXA is probably the right brightness. Those bricks in SMB are not supposed to be bright red or brown, so the other three look off.

 

Yes! FCEUX palette is nice too.

 

 

For the digital domain / HDMI output I like the default FirebrandX palette.

 

The Black&White / B&W is glorious but lacks contrast at the analog RGB side.

 

 

Did you tested the "16 sprites / scanline" mode? I didn't found bugs yet. I love this addition from kevtris. Great work again!

[Kismet]

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "premium product" here, but my interest in the Nt Mini had everything to do with the higher quality video output capability and nothing to do with the luxury build.

 

I was looking for a replacement for my NES, and in addition to replacing my NES I also replaced my AVS!

 

The original NT was a also premium product in the same idea of the CMVS. The NT Mini is the same product but with a FPGA for the entire thing instead of recycled NES parts and a FPGA for the PPU. It has an aluminum chasis. The thing could probably survive being thrown from a third story window. Look at Analogue's other products (The CMVS was made of wood!)

 

 

 

 

That doesn't sound like Analogue at all! Kevtris might release adapters, but I think the chance of Analogue doing such a thing would be close to zero.

 

Nah, it's more likely Analogue would release Pin adapters because Kevtris isn't going to build them. He may release a schematic for people to build their own, but I don't see him building 10,000 pin adapters by hand.

[cacophony]

 

The original NT was a also premium product in the same idea of the CMVS. The NT Mini is the same product but with a FPGA for the entire thing instead of recycled NES parts and a FPGA for the PPU. It has an aluminum chasis. The thing could probably survive being thrown from a third story window. Look at Analogue's other products (The CMVS was made of wood!)

 

 

 

 

Nah, it's more likely Analogue would release Pin adapters because Kevtris isn't going to build them. He may release a schematic for people to build their own, but I don't see him building 10,000 pin adapters by hand.

 

 

Not sure what point you’re making but the Nt mini offers significantly more features and output options than the prior Nt / highdef nes mod

 

Re: adaptors, of course kevtris wouldn’t build them himself. He’d get a factory in China to make them, just like he did with the hidef nes boards

[Newsdee]

Who knows, maybe later on down the line we can crowdfund to pay Kevtris to port the extra cores that Analogue doesn't own to something like the MISTer (or whatever the equivalent is then). Don't get me wrong, I love OSS, but the amount of work it takes to get a high level of accuracy with these things makes me think we'll usually only get great ones when someone gets paid.

Nothing prevents doing that now MiSTer uses the Terasic DE10 Nano board with a Cyclone V FPGA bigger than the Super NT so it has plenty of room. It doesn't require to provide source either (since it's original work), anybody is free to publish their own cores.

[Newsdee]

I will also add that (for example) there is a fantastic open-source Atari 800XL and Atari 5200 core available for several boards, courtesy of foft:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/216991-5200-in-fpga/page-5#

[Riptide]

Nothing prevents doing that now MiSTer uses the Terasic DE10 Nano board with a Cyclone V FPGA bigger than the Super NT so it has plenty of room. It doesn't require to provide source either (since it's original work), anybody is free to publish their own cores.

Yeah I'm more concerned with people's ability to play the cores than them being open source. If Analogue stops selling the NT Mini and doesn't want Kevtris to release the old cores for the Super NT (for whatever reason, not trying to start that debate again) then I'd definitely be up for supporting the porting.

[Newsdee]

Yeah I'm more concerned with people's ability to play the cores than them being open source. If Analogue stops selling the NT Mini and doesn't want Kevtris to release the old cores for the Super NT (for whatever reason, not trying to start that debate again) then I'd definitely be up for supporting the porting.

Fair enough. It's good we are seeing convergence on the Cyclone V chips in both commercial and hobby retro game hardware. Hopefully that will get more people willing to develop for it and more cores for everybody.

 

To he clear, all Cyclone Vs are not all the same but the toolset around them (Altera's Quartus suite for instance) is the same and they can reuse some common Altera "IP libraries". So in principle ports across these ought to be easier than porting over a design from a Xilinx Spartan chip using different IPs. Even then, I've been told it's not such a gap given the Vs flexibility compared to older chips.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Newsdee

[Skins4thewin]

Quick ? for you guys. Smokemonster stated that he thinks a fix exists for the Legend of Link SRAM saving issues on the NT Mini, is this true and can anyone point me in the direction of the fix? Thanks in advance!

[Skins4thewin]

As for the topic at hand, I 100% agree that we are unlikely to see extra cores for the Super NT Mini, at least as far as 16 Bit stuff goes. It seems that their plans are more on line with wanting to release individual 16-Bit consoles for each individual core, which makes perfect business sense to be honest. I could also see them not releasing any cores at all for the Super NT Mini to allow the NT mini to remain relevant for the 8-Bit stuff. It would still sell for those looking for an all-in-one 8-Bit unit, even at the current price. I would think it would be a smart move to make cart adapters for it as that can only make them more money and increase the sales of the NT Mini even further.

 

I am not really sure if we will see any more work done on those existing 8 bit cores, but I really hope that Kevtris will at least tweak and update them a bit as many of them are still a bit imperfect with bugs and sound that is a bit off. This is just based on my current play time with them. The biggest issues I have been able to find mostly have to do with the sound implementation on the NES, SMS and GB cores. Would really like to see the NT Mini become a near perfect implementation of those cores so that it could potentially replace all of those systems in a persons library.

 

They are certainly nice though and are fully playable as is, but I do hope that Kevris' ultimate goal is to have the cores be reference quality and as close to the original hardware as possible. I heard it mentioned somewhere that this was his original goal for them so hopefully that is still the case. They could use just a bit of added polish and I hope that he decides to work on them a bit further one day. Until then I will enjoy them for what they are, an excellent alternative to the original hardware but not quite a 1:1 replacement, at least not yet. Hopefully one day we will see those cores get the updates they deserve.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Skins4thewin

[Riptide]

Fair enough. It's good we are seeing convergence on the Cyclone V chips in both commercial and hobby retro game hardware. Hopefully that will get more people willing to develop for it and more cores for everybody.

To he clear, all Cyclone Vs are not all the same but the toolset around them (Altera's Quartus suite for instance) is the same and they can reuse some common Altera "IP libraries". So in principle ports across these ought to be easier than porting over a design from a Xilinx Spartan chip using different IPs. Even then, I've been told it's not such a gap given the Vs flexibility compared to older chips.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to doing it now, but I'd guess it wouldn't be in Analogue's best interests until after they stop selling a device that can play them. That's interesting about the Cyclone, had never really thought about it but it makes perfect sense.

 

Quick ? for you guys. Smokemonster stated that he thinks a fix exists for the Legend of Link SRAM saving issues on the NT Mini, is this true and can anyone point me in the direction of the fix? Thanks in advance!

The problem has been mentioned a few times in this thread but I don't believe a solution has, so if you find one plz let us know. The game looks so good I'm considering buying a cart so I can play it on the Mini but $75 is steep.

[cfillak]

Looks like Analogue may have some kind of solution for analog video on the Super NT in the works:

 

https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/930474472229834753

[Guspaz]

Probably just an official external DAC. Which is fine, they can make it a heck of a lot easier for 240p RGBS than the current solutions, which might work decently but generally require a sync combiner (since most such converters, if they even support 240p, still output separate H/V sync).

[cfillak]

Probably just an official external DAC. Which is fine, they can make it a heck of a lot easier for 240p RGBS than the current solutions, which might work decently but generally require a sync combiner (since most such converters, if they even support 240p, still output separate H/V sync).

Is it possible for an external DAC to be lag-free if they allow 240p to be output via HDMI? I'm assuming the DAC would just be some kind of box that you'd plug the HDMI out into. Would the DAC being external introduce problems that wouldn't be present with an on board DAC?

[Guspaz]

Existing HDMI->VGA DACs are lag-free (or some insignificant delay best measured in number of scanlines), so I don't see why theirs would be any different. I'd expect some sort of dongle that pulls power from the HDMI port.

[cfillak]

Existing HDMI->VGA DACs are lag-free (or some insignificant delay best measured in number of scanlines), so I don't see why theirs would be any different. I'd expect some sort of dongle that pulls power from the HDMI port.

Cool! I'm assuming they'd have to add a 240p HDMI out mode, unless 480p can be laglessly downscaled to 240p (only sample every other line?).

 

I hope the analog out would be the same DE-15 port on the NT Mini so I can reuse my cables.

Edited November 17, 2017 by cfillak

[Guspaz]

They'd need to have 240p HDMI out, but that's part of the HDMI spec, so it should be possible. We know that 240p HDMI -> 15 kHz CRT works because people have already tried it with the OSSC.

[cfillak]

I hope the analog out would be as full featured as the NT Mini, (i.e. Composite, S-Video, Component, RGB). I'm not exactly sure how the NT Mini knows which signal to output. I assume it detects the cable or something? (correct me if I'm wrong). I wonder how this would work on an external DAC. Also, the RGB sync method is something controlled in the NT Mini menu, so I don't know if the DAC being external would complicate that.

[bikerspade]

I hope the analog out would be as full featured as the NT Mini, (i.e. Composite, S-Video, Component, RGB). I'm not exactly sure how the NT Mini knows which signal to output. I assume it detects the cable or something? (correct me if I'm wrong). I wonder how this would work on an external DAC. Also, the RGB sync method is something controlled in the NT Mini menu, so I don't know if the DAC being external would complicate that.

I believe the system first checks if HDMI is active. If not, it enables all analogue outputs simultaneously. If HDMI is being used and you turn off your TV, the system will fall back to producing analogue output (which is a problem when using an Everdrive but not the cores via SD card).

[RadikusRLZ]

Like I earlier say that they gonna make later a Premium model of Super NT with all in one. Thats why I don't order this first cheaper release of Super NT.

[Keatah]

Can they really know if some guy opened their NT Mini? My understanding is with a Phillips, Torx, whatever screwdriver is required, remove screws, open case, stare at it, reassemble, how are they to know? Did they put locktite on the threads, infused with magical dust prepared from ground unicorn horns, such that a kitten dies somewhere whenever it's disturbed? (and they have bean counters hired to count said dead kittens). Do they dust the inner chamber of the NT Mini for fingerprints or DNA not belonging to Analogue employees? Do they install hidden cameras in the homes of customers who bought the NT Mini, with the implicit purpose of catching them in the act when they reach for the tool drawer?

 

Other methods..

[NE146]

 

Other methods..

 

Glitter bomb?

[Wolf_]

Like I earlier say that they gonna make later a Premium model of Super NT with all in one. Thats why I don't order this first cheaper release of Super NT.

They never said they /would/ release a premium model. They said they /might/ IF there was enough interest (what reserve needs to be met to reach that goal was also never quantified). There is no guarantee a premium model will be made.

 

Besides it isn't like you can't just buy a quality dac (the ossc has an entire thread dedicated to reviewing them on shmups).

[kevtris]

I believe the system first checks if HDMI is active. If not, it enables all analogue outputs simultaneously. If HDMI is being used and you turn off your TV, the system will fall back to producing analogue output (which is a problem when using an Everdrive but not the cores via SD card).

 

Close. It uses sense lines on the DB-15 to decide which analog output to produce (composite/svid, or component, or RGB)

[cfillak]

 

Close. It uses sense lines on the DB-15 to decide which analog output to produce (composite/svid, or component, or RGB)

Interesting. I suppose any hypothetical external DAC could just have a physical switch to cycle through the different outputs.