FPGA Based Videogame System

[Atariboy]

If the Super NT gets stuff like Colecovision and Atari 2600 cores, will there be a way to interface original controllers?

 

I don't see any adapters on Ralphnet that might get it done, which is where I usually go when I want to use a controller meant for one system on another.

[hardcorehubz]

Ran into an odd quirk and was wondering if anybody else had too and if they had figured out a way around it. I have my NT Mini hooked via RGB -> SCART -> OSSC - LG 65C6P. Now the OSSC is known to have problems with some displays but my tv has played nice with all modes and consoles up until this. When I turn on the NT Mini i can see the menu show up for a split second but it disappears and will randomly show up again for fractions of a second. I also have this setup dual outputting to a PVM and if I navigate the menu there and switch to another core it syncs up fine (Gameboy, Sega Master System, etc). So I'm guessing it has something to do with the NES output itself and the fact that the core is so perfect it's outputting whatever is freaking my display out. I played around with various OSSC settings but couldn't really get anywhere outside of noticing that modifying the analogue sync LPF to 0 would make the screen show up for a fraction of a second more often. I found this on the OSSC wiki and I'm guessing this is what the issue is -

 

"Hsync period is not constant, causing some jitter to output clock. Some displays are sensitive to this and cannot properly lock to the signal (low receiver PLL bandwidth)."

 

and "Nes PPU skips a tick every other frame just before first visible scanline is drawn, resulting to non-periodic hsync which is bad reference for any digitizer. An universal fix would be to alter Nes clocking circuitry (e.g. via CPLD/MCU) so that one oscillation cycle on the uneven scanline is gated, thus stabilizing hsync period."

 

Sounds like it's a feature/flaw with the NES itself. Something someone else posted about this sounded interesting and maybe a clue - Assuming PPU uses flip-flop clock divider instead of PLL (for 21.477272MHz / 4), there’s a good chance a solution would be as simple as gating four master clock cycles on PPU input during the short scanline to normalize its length (in time domain). To my knowledge there are no timing glitches when NES is used with PlayChoice PPU (which does not have the short scanline) so there should not be any compatibility issues with the mod, but I’ll need to try it for real at some point to verify that.

 

So has anybody had a similar issue with the NT Mini and RGB Output and have any workarounds? I'd appreciate any help thanks!

Edited January 23, 2018 by hardcorehubz

[Sneakyturtleegg]

I have my NT Mini hooked via RGB -> SCART -> OSSC - LG 65C6P. Now the OSSC is known to have problems with some displays but my tv has played nice with all modes and consoles up until this. When I turn on the NT Mini i can see the menu show up for a split second but it disappears and will randomly show up again for fractions of a second.

 

You seem to have quite a bit going on there. I understand you have a lot invested in gear to get analogue retro systems looking good on modern LCD/OLED televisions. I would want to use it all too considering the money invested. There are quite a few variables to troubleshoot your issue hooking up the NT Mini that way. With the nice high end flat panel television you have, may I ask why you aren't hooking the NT Mini via HDMI? The HDMI output of the NT Mini makes RGB/SCART and the OSSC obsolete for that type of television. With HDMI, the NT Mini should have a better picture on that television with less or no lag. You would then be able to maximize the number of adjustments you can make within the NT Mini's settings.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sneakyturtleegg

[Atariboy]

I'm curious, too. Why not just connect it directly rather than converting the signal and then sending it through a scan converter?

 

Not enough HDMI ports, perhaps? If it's something like that, I imagine that it would be easiest just to invest in a cheap HDMI switch.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Atariboy

[leods]

"I also have this setup dual outputting to a PVM" Hardcorehubz has a dual display setup where it actually makes sense to use the OSSC. He can't dual HDMI and Analogue with the ANTM.

 

But you answered your own question. The NES has his weird out of spec output and your TV can't sync to it. Either use the ANTM's own HDMI output on your flatscreen, or use the analogue signal on the PVM. (that is working, right?) In your current setup you probably won't be able to use both at the same time.

 

I guess you could try a Framemeister. As far as I know, that will create a frame buffer and should work converting the NES output to any HDMI compatible display/capture device. That being one of the main advantages of the Framemeister over the OSSC.

[kevtris]

Ran into an odd quirk and was wondering if anybody else had too and if they had figured out a way around it. I have my NT Mini hooked via RGB -> SCART -> OSSC - LG 65C6P. Now the OSSC is known to have problems with some displays but my tv has played nice with all modes and consoles up until this. When I turn on the NT Mini i can see the menu show up for a split second but it disappears and will randomly show up again for fractions of a second. I also have this setup dual outputting to a PVM and if I navigate the menu there and switch to another core it syncs up fine (Gameboy, Sega Master System, etc). So I'm guessing it has something to do with the NES output itself and the fact that the core is so perfect it's outputting whatever is freaking my display out. I played around with various OSSC settings but couldn't really get anywhere outside of noticing that modifying the analogue sync LPF to 0 would make the screen show up for a fraction of a second more often. I found this on the OSSC wiki and I'm guessing this is what the issue is -

 

 

Someone else had this issue. Amusingly, it's because of the NES video output and that missing pixel every other frame. I was going to add a menu option to disable this, but haven't had time.

[Atariboy]

"I also have this setup dual outputting to a PVM" Hardcorehubz has a dual display setup where it actually makes sense to use the OSSC. He can't dual HDMI and Analogue with the ANTM.

 

I don't know how I missed that the first time through.

 

Thanks

Edited January 23, 2018 by Atariboy

[hardcorehubz]

HDMI does work but I'd like the ability to dual output via RGB with my setup like I have my other systems. HDMI works fine but yep I'm out of ports so requires me unplugging stuff.

 

Kevtris, thanks for the reply and the confirmation. No biggie, I'll just wait for that fix whenever you get around to it and just use HDMI in the meantime. If you need me to test at any point let me know.

[elevengames]

Super Nt ships Feb. 7th

 

https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/955833588062154752

[keepdreamin]

HDMI does work but I'd like the ability to dual output via RGB with my setup like I have my other systems. HDMI works fine but yep I'm out of ports so requires me unplugging stuff.

 

Kevtris, thanks for the reply and the confirmation. No biggie, I'll just wait for that fix whenever you get around to it and just use HDMI in the meantime. If you need me to test at any point let me know.

For what reason would you need to duel output using the RGB to the OSSC? If you're running capture hardware just run the system's HDMI into a splitter.

 

If you need more ports, grab a switchbox....

 

Why you would send a digital signal you had direct access to with HDMI through a DAC and then back to digital is completely baffling

Edited January 23, 2018 by keepdreamin

[LewisD]

Does the Analogue logo on the Super NT light up? If so, I hope it is user controllable.

 

Super Nt ships Feb. 7th

 

https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/955833588062154752

[Beer Monkey]

 

You seem to have quite a bit going on there. I understand you have a lot invested in gear to get analogue retro systems looking good on modern LCD/OLED televisions. I would want to use it all too considering the money invested. There are quite a few variables to troubleshoot your issue hooking up the NT Mini that way. With the nice high end flat panel television you have, may I ask why you aren't hooking the NT Mini via HDMI? The HDMI output of the NT Mini makes RGB/SCART and the OSSC obsolete for that type of television. With HDMI, the NT Mini should have a better picture on that television with less or no lag. You would then be able to maximize the number of adjustments you can make within the NT Mini's settings.

 

I've actually been considering running my NT Mini through the OSSC also. The OSSC has more attractive scanline options. So yeah, the jitter could be an issue for me as well.

 

The hybrid scanlines plus gamma on the Super NT addresses this but that doesn't help me with the NT Mini cores. Still, we've come a long way in a short time, thanks to Kevin.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Beer Monkey

[retro_fan]

 

I was going to add a menu option to disable this, but haven't had time.

 

I love it that you think about everything and that your devices are so configurable!

Edited January 23, 2018 by retro_fan

[hardcorehubz]

For what reason would you need to duel output using the RGB to the OSSC? If you're running capture hardware just run the system's HDMI into a splitter.

 

If you need more ports, grab a switchbox....

 

Why you would send a digital signal you had direct access to with HDMI through a DAC and then back to digital is completely baffling

 

I can't dual output HDMI to the PVM. With RGB I can dual output without having to manually do anything, and can play lightgun games and play on a CRT if I want. Though honestly the OLED with OSSC looks amazing and I'm using my CRT for retro gaming much less nowadays.

[cfillak]

 

I can't dual output HDMI to the PVM. With RGB I can dual output without having to manually do anything, and can play lightgun games and play on a CRT if I want. Though honestly the OLED with OSSC looks amazing and I'm using my CRT for retro gaming much less nowadays.

You can output HDMI to your HDTV and RGB to your PVM and toggle between the two with a controller input. Select+Right

 

Edit: Unless you meant simultaneous output, which yes you cannot do on the NT Mini.

Edited January 23, 2018 by cfillak

[F34R]

Super Nt ships Feb. 7th

 

https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/955833588062154752

Two weeks away!!! YES!!!!

[Beer Monkey]

You can output HDMI to your HDTV and RGB to your PVM and toggle between the two with a controller input. Select+Right

 

Edit: Unless you meant simultaneous output, which yes you cannot do on the NT Mini.

One option for some is to output RGB or component into a PVM, and then run the output of the PVM into OSSC. PVM video loop adds no latency. Of course, it depends on what you are trying to do.

 

Replace OSSC with capture if you want to stream while using a CRT without latency affecting your gameplay (capture always adds at least one frame).

[HuckleCat]

 

A few questions...

 

Howgoes the progress on the Genesis/MD core? I guess what I'm really asking here is, after the Super NT is out, can we expect a "Mega NT"? I'd preorder that in a heartbeat, especially if it connects to a Sega CD.

 

Also, will there ever be a cheaper, plastic Mini NT? With the Super NT bring priced reasonably, it seems like the only reason the Mini is so expensive is the aluminum body.

 

Keep up the awesome work!

 

HuckleCat

[Toth]

What does the Asian writing on the back of the Nt Mini say above that port? Also, what is that port used for?

 

I find it interesting that some people's controller ports are hard to plug controllers into. I have two systems (one black and one silver) and all four ports on both systems are actually easier to plug controllers into than original NES systems. I almost wish they were a little more snug.

 

I think there is a controller test menu on the Nt Mini as well. I don't remember how to bring it up at the moment though.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Toth

[cfillak]

What does the Asian writing on the back of the Nt Mini say above that port? Also, what is that port used for?

 

Also, I find it interesting that some people's controller ports are hard to plug controllers into. I have two systems (one black and one silver) and all four ports on both systems are actually easier to plug controllers into than original NES systems. I almost wish they were a little more snug. I think there is a controller test menu on the Nt Mini as well. I don't remember how to bring it up at the moment though.

I don't know what it says, but its the Famicom Expansion port. It existed on original Famicom systems to plug peripherals into because the 2 controllers were physically attached to the system and not removable. So controllers like the Famicom Arkanoid Vaus controller plugged into the expansion slot. The Famicom 3D System uses this port as well.

[cfillak]

A few questions...

 

Howgoes the progress on the Genesis/MD core? I guess what I'm really asking here is, after the Super NT is out, can we expect a "Mega NT"? I'd preorder that in a heartbeat, especially if it connects to a Sega CD.

 

Also, will there ever be a cheaper, plastic Mini NT? With the Super NT bring priced reasonably, it seems like the only reason the Mini is so expensive is the aluminum body.

 

Keep up the awesome work!

 

HuckleCat

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-195?do=findComment&comment=3913181

[cacophony]

Also, will there ever be a cheaper, plastic Mini NT? With the Super NT bring priced reasonably, it seems like the only reason the Mini is so expensive is the aluminum body.

Keep up the awesome work!

HuckleCat

There’s also all the additional input and output options with the NT mini...

[HuckleCat]

Cfillak, thanks for the answer, that's what I figured.

 

Cacophany - even with that consideration, it's hard not to believe that half of that price is the aluminum block.

[scott64]

It's maddening thinking about the delays and import fees I'm gonna get stuck with shipping to Canada even though I'm only a two hour drive from where Analogue are located

[aihooo444]

To: Kevtris

 

I know you have yet to officially say whether or not you plan to jailbreak the new super nt, but I was wandering if hypothetically you did would it support msu-1 games like the sd2snes does.


Thanks in advance.