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FPGA Based Videogame System


kevtris

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

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  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...


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Hi kevtris,

 

Would you be able to confirm if the Super NT stays within the RGB colorspace the entire time and outputs Full Range RGB 4:4:4 or if there is a conversion to RGB<->YUV done along the line before output?

 

And would it be possible to add an option on the fully buffed mode to keep the output as 60.08 but not slow the system down to 60.00 and maintain the 60.08 in/out?

 

Thanks

Edited by hexcode99
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Note how all 240hz monitors have high lag, all OLED's and all of samsung QLED's do too. The only monitors with 9ms are IPS monitors, which are a premium. Likewise the only HDTV's with 12ms are 4K IPS as well.

 

I have a MG24UQ 4K 24" monitor, it's 10ms.

 

You're doing ok if it's 12 or under. When you cross 16ms, for a video game it's very noticeable. For home theaters', you have to start adjusting the surround sound speakers delay when it hits 16 as well.

I wouldn’t consider the 21ms lag of the entire 2017 LG OLED lineup “high”

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Hi kevtris,

 

Would you be able to confirm if the Super NT stays within the RGB colorspace the entire time and outputs Full Range RGB 4:4:4 or if there is a conversion to RGB<->YUV done along the line before output?

 

And would it be possible to add an option on the fully buffed mode to keep the output as 60.08 but not slow the system down to 60.00 and maintain the 60.08 in/out?

 

Thanks

 

Why bother buffering if you want 60.08 out?

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Note how all 240hz monitors have high lag, all OLED's and all of samsung QLED's do too. The only monitors with 9ms are IPS monitors, which are a premium. Likewise the only HDTV's with 12ms are 4K IPS as well.

 

I have a MG24UQ 4K 24" monitor, it's 10ms.

 

You're doing ok if it's 12 or under. When you cross 16ms, for a video game it's very noticeable. For home theaters', you have to start adjusting the surround sound speakers delay when it hits 16 as well.

2017 OLEDs only have 21ms of lag. That is pretty good.

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I wouldn’t consider the 21ms lag of the entire 2017 LG OLED lineup “high”

 

Depends what you're playing. The requirements for video and the requirements for 7th/8th generation game consoles is a bit wider than than those before it. There will be some inherent latency over HDMI that isn't present over displayport, but we're talking about eDP in that context.

 

But that latency database is not likely to be 100% accurate either since you need the same conditions for every device, and even changing cables can change that number.

 

LG got a lot of backlash for the latency in their 2016 models that they somehow managed to patch in firmware, so that is also another factor to consider.

 

But out of the box people rarely change defaults, so you just need to find what you can deal with.

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So, basically fiddled around with the Super NT for about an hour and a half. This thing is damn impressive. Ran everything I threw at it perfectly. On my 2010 Panasonic G25 Plasma I felt literally no lag. Also, the audio is literally perfect. I was rocking some SFC tunes and was just blown away both in regards to the accuracy and just the quality of the sound output. Kevtris, you did a fantastic job sir.

Also, I keep gamma boost turned on even though I don't use scanlines. Seems to be closer to what my early revision SNES outputs on my CRT.

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So, basically fiddled around with the Super NT for about an hour and a half. This thing is damn impressive. Ran everything I threw at it perfectly. On my 2010 Panasonic G25 Plasma I felt literally no lag. Also, the audio is literally perfect. I was rocking some SFC tunes and was just blown away both in regards to the accuracy and just the quality of the sound output. Kevtris, you did a fantastic job sir.

 

Also, I keep gamma boost turned on even though I don't use scanlines. Seems to be closer to what my early revision SNES outputs on my CRT.

 

Yeah I usually keep it on too. It was very obvious looking at the PVM vs. flat panel during development that the flat panel was too dark.

 

 

Yeah, most likely the wrong way to go about it. I only suggest the full buffed mode because it already had the 60.08, just an additional option to disable slowdown back to 60.00

 

I cannot output a 60.09fps hdmi signal if that's what people are asking. I can't lock the two PLLs together (system and video) so it's a non starter. Also, I don't want incompatibility issues with monitors that cause it to not work. i.e. someone turns that mode on, without knowing what it does, then after that, the monitor goes dead and they get no video any more.

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I cannot output a 60.09fps hdmi signal if that's what people are asking. I can't lock the two PLLs together (system and video) so it's a non starter. Also, I don't want incompatibility issues with monitors that cause it to not work. i.e. someone turns that mode on, without knowing what it does, then after that, the monitor goes dead and they get no video any more.

 

Ah, I see. Okay, thanks for entertaining my idea. If you get a chance, my only other question is if the Super NT is RGB from start to finish and outputting Full Range RGB 4:4:4 (like the OSSC) or does it perform an internal 4:4:4 RGB<->4:2:2 YUV conversion (like the XRGB Mini Framemeister)?

Edited by hexcode99
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Yeah I usually keep it on too. It was very obvious looking at the PVM vs. flat panel during development that the flat panel was too dark.

 

 

I cannot output a 60.09fps hdmi signal if that's what people are asking. I can't lock the two PLLs together (system and video) so it's a non starter. Also, I don't want incompatibility issues with monitors that cause it to not work. i.e. someone turns that mode on, without knowing what it does, then after that, the monitor goes dead and they get no video any more.

So what about for the upcoming DAC? Will that be able to do 60.09hz?

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Ah, I see. Okay, thanks for entertaining my idea. If you get a chance, my only other question is if the Super NT is RGB from start to finish and outputting Full Range RGB 4:4:4 (like the OSSC) or does it perform an internal 4:4:4 RGB<->4:2:2 YUV conversion (like the XRGB Mini Framemeister)?

It outputs RGB 4:4:4, just like the NT Mini

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i got a text alert from ups. my super nt arrived in town at 3am this morning, but i wont get it till tuesday. would it have killed them to deliver it today or monday instead?

I've had a package arrive at the distro warehouse 20 miles away from me, four days before the delivery date, and they wouldn't deliver it and they wouldn't let me just come pick it up.

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Are there any hotkeys for the Super Nt other than accessing the menu? Like changing the resolution? Or something like that?

Resetting a game can be done with Select+Up.

 

Here's a couple more for the Nt Mini. Some of them might work for the Super Nt but I haven't tried any of them yet (other than powering the system on which doesn't work):

 

Select + A = Power on/off

Select + Right = Video Switch

 

hold up while powering up = analog video menu

hold down while powering up = controller test menu

hold start while powering up = reset nt mini settings to default

Edited by Toth
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Some random comments on the SNT:

- It doesn't seem to support no buttons (disable) for the reset hotkey. I could set an unlikely button combination, but would prefer to completely disable it.

 

 

get one of those junk clone pads that let you mash down on the dpad so that all 4 directions register. save that as the hotkey and go back to using proper pads. youll never accidentally reset it.

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You're doing ok if it's 12 or under. When you cross 16ms, for a video game it's very noticeable. For home theaters', you have to start adjusting the surround sound speakers delay when it hits 16 as well.

 

Stop, just...stop. That's complete and utter bollocks. you're not going to notice a difference between 12 and 16 ms of delay. Where do you come up with this nonsense? :rolling:

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get one of those junk clone pads that let you mash down on the dpad so that all 4 directions register. save that as the hotkey and go back to using proper pads. youll never accidentally reset it.

 

 

That is an excellent idea, but the menu won't let you save an invalid combination or a single button as a hotkey. It will allow you to set either Up or Down and either Left or Right with Select, Star, B and/or A, so you can get a combination you are unlikely to press with three to six buttons required to trigger the reset.

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Stop, just...stop. That's complete and utter bollocks. you're not going to notice a difference between 12 and 16 ms of delay. Where do you come up with this nonsense? :rolling:

 

That's not what I said.

 

I said that you'll notice a difference once the latency crosses 16ms, because that's when the audio will stop being in sync. Or are you going to suggest that DDR and Street Fighter players are hallucinating?

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That's not what I said.

 

I said that you'll notice a difference once the latency crosses 16ms, because that's when the audio will stop being in sync. Or are you going to suggest that DDR and Street Fighter players are hallucinating?

 

Is this the whole speedrunner super power thing again? We've had dudes in here before claiming they could detect 1/2 a frame difference in lag.

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Is this the whole speedrunner super power thing again? We've had dudes in here before claiming they could detect 1/2 a frame difference in lag.

 

A human can not see the difference in something that no difference occurs in. If the screen is being updated at 60hz exactly, then detecting a change of non-multiples of 16.7ms is impossible. In a 120hz or 240hz panel you should in fact see 8.35 and 4.175 frames in these tests, but instead we're seeing 16ms and 32ms, and on the OLED's. There is a reason for this, go to the page where they explain how they test it.

 

https://displaylag.com/the-lag-tester-a-new-standard/

 

The lag tester, quite simply, is an external box powered by 2 AA batteries. The box uses a HDMI cable to send a 1080p signal to the display, and presents 3 flashing white bars on a black screen. The box comes with a sensor that you have to place right onto the flashing bars, and it presents a reading on the screen. This reading is the combined input lag and response time reading calculated from the sensor.

 

So what it's testing is a white-to-black response. So a screen with a slower white-to-black response will get a poorer score.

 

Which the author states here:

 

The difference between the top and the bottom of a LED/LCD screen is nearly 16ms (1 frame).

 

So the display latency measurement is supposed to be the bottom bar, which is always the worst number.

 

Take note that the lag tester is not designed for 4K leobodnar.com

 

So when it is used on a 4K screen, it's letting the monitor use it's own scaler. Likewise it's not testing 120hz or 240hz, it's testing how the monitor behaves with a 1080p60 signal only.

 

edit: tag soup broke everything

Edited by Kismet
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