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FPGA Based Videogame System


kevtris

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

682 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...


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Oh boy. Seems they fixed the original Powerpak firmware, broke the aftermarket version. :dunce:

 

Feel free to revert the firmware to 4.0.

Nah. The SD2SNES and Super UFO Pro 8 both work fine, so I'm not too worried about it. The Powerpak still of course works on any other SNES, so it's no biggie. Though I do wonder what would cause it to no longer work.

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That 1ms they are advertising isn't actually for input lag, even if they use that term in the same sentence. That's kind of misleading. They're talking about a 1ms GTG pixel response time. So basically no ghosting, or smearing of moving images. From what I've seen of actual input lag tests on gaming monitors, they typically run from 8 - 10ms. Still, you won't notice that.

 

Easy way to think of the difference is 10ms after you push a button, the monitor is done processing that reaction and tosses it up on screen, where a pixel will then respond with 1ms GTG.

 

I don't know of any manufacturer who lists Leo Bodnar style input lag test results. Actual input lag numbers come from outside testing.

This is not true. Many of the gaming LCD monitors have 1 to 3 ms input lag for drawing the very top part of each frame, 8 to 10 ms for drawing half the frame and 16.67 ms for drawing the entire frame. A CRT has the same property: it takes 16.67 ms for a 60hz CRT to draw the entire frame, so many of the gaming LCD monitors have no additional input lag compared to a CRT.

 

CRTs have lag because it takes time for the CRT to draw each line from top to bottom. So the real measure for an LCD should be compared against that baseline.

Edited by Jagasian
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Received my Super NT today. Thank you so much Kevtris and Analogue for all of your hard work! I do have a question about power. The Super NT is rated for 5v and 2A. I have a power supply for my Raspberry Pi that is rated for 5.25v and 2.4A. Can I safely use this power supply with the Super NT? It has a longer cord and works better for my set up because of that. Also, I'm afraid to plug the USB power cable into my television. Does anybody do that?

Edited by Sneakyturtleegg
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New firmware (4.1) is up on the support page. Fixes:

 

* NBA jam not letting you get back to the menu (on its title screen and some other places) easily - the game had a broken "manual" controller reading loop left in by accident it looks- they clear then set the latch bit on the controller and read it 16 times with latch set! This is never going to work. I don't know why it was in there, but obviously the game cannot use the results, they will just read the Y button 16 times. This was tripping up my "piggybacking" on controller reading. That has been fixed now.

 

enjoy!

Loving my Super NT. Im still getting jammed up in NBA Jam. Cant access menu from within game. Updated to 4.1

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This is not true. Many of the gaming LCD monitors have 1 to 3 ms input lag for drawing the very top part of each frame, 8 to 10 ms for drawing half the frame and 16.67 ms for drawing the entire frame. A CRT has the same property: it takes 16.67 ms for a 60hz CRT to draw the entire frame, so many of the gaming LCD monitors have no additional input lag compared to a CRT.

 

CRTs have lag because it takes time for the CRT to draw each line from top to bottom. So the real measure for an LCD should be compared against that baseline.

 

That's not entirely a usefully accurate description.

 

First and foremost, CRTs don't take 16.67ms to draw a frame at 60fps. There's what's called a "vblank" period, the gap between the end of one frame and the beginning of the next, which is when you basically update "what is to be drawn" so that when the next frame is drawn, it's different. In the case of CRTs, this is basically when it's moving from aiming at the bottom right corner to the top left one. LCDs have a vblank as well, though it works a little bit differently.

 

Also, many monitors take far less than 16.67ms to draw a frame. If they didn't, 120fps and 144fps monitors simply couldn't work. And yet these monitors still have input latency, because the time to draw a single frame, and the latency, are two different things.

 

The simplest way to describe it is to imagine a pipe. You can put things in one end, and eventually they come out the other. How long it takes to go down the pipe is "input latency." How big around the pipe is, which affects how big of a thing you can shove down it without it getting backed up, is the "time to draw a single frame."

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OK, having a strange image with my OLED65B7A. (Anti-OLED brigaders, please save it for elsewhere. Thanks)


I've been using the set since October with no issues and a variety of sources; specifically no overscan which is key to getting great image quality. ESPECIALLY when dealing with upscaled low-res graphics, as overscan resamples the image outside of what your device is doing, causing artifacts...plus there's the whole losing screen real estate thing. Anyhow, I've had no problems including using various classic systems with the OSSC, and no issue with my PC, Xbox One, etc. so I thought I'd be good.


However, the Super NT is triggering my display to overscan the image, causing the requisite issues. If I squeeze it down in the Super NT (need height of around 693 instead of 720 to get things to fit with a 256x239 test grid) then we're resampling on top of resampling and that's even scarier.


I put my PC in 1280x720 60hz and there is zero overscan; perfect 1:1 pixel mapping and nothing scanning off the physical screen. Physically plugged the Super NT into the same physical input with no settings changes and if I set height on the Super NT (firmware 4.1) to 720 there's major overscan (regardless of width). I have to crank height down to 693 to get test patterns from 240p suite to fit on the screen, but the resampling wrecks the picture with scanlines, of course.


Someone suggested changing the ITC flag in the OSSC to see if it caused the same issues as some sets interpret ITC when deciding how much processing would be OK on a given image.


Changing the ITC flag in the OSSC did nothing; there was still no overscan. BUT, to I was able to get the OSSC to do the same thing (trigger the set to overscan) if I set TX Mode to DVI instead of HDMI. This is easily reproducible, and the amount of overscan looks the same per the 240p test suite grid pattern.


Another suggested that limited RGB could be a factor; I put my PC in limited RGB mode (and even tried component 4:2:2 and component 4:4:4), still, no overscan.


If anybody has a similar issue LMK how it goes for you.

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What happens when you connect it directly to your HDTV, rather than routing it through an OSSC?

Oh, no, I'm not routing the Super NT through the OSSC.

 

I'm running a real SNES (SCART, RGB) through the OSSC and doing a parallel test with the Super NT. Using the same HDMI input to make sure no input settings are different between the two.

 

I've been using the real SNES plus OSSC since October, that's how I immediately realized something was off and then verified with the 240p test suite.

 

FWIW both the real SNES and Super NT are running 240p test suite via SD2SNES for test patterns.

Edited by Beer Monkey
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Oh, no, I'm not routing the Super NT through the OSSC.

 

I'm running a real SNES through the OSSC and doing a parallel test with the Super NT.

 

Most TVs let you manually choose 1:1 pixel mode. It may just be that however it sees the Super NT, it defaults to overscan, but you just need to change the TV's setting and be done with it.

 

I mean, I don't know that *all* flat panel TVs offer that option, but in the couple dozen I've used, I haven't run into one yet. They call it different things, but it's usually there somewhere.

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Most TVs let you manually choose 1:1 pixel mode. It may just be that however it sees the Super NT, it defaults to overscan, but you just need to change the TV's setting and be done with it.

 

I mean, I don't know that *all* flat panel TVs offer that option, but in the couple dozen I've used, I haven't run into one yet. They call it different things, but it's usually there somewhere.

Again, I am not changing any settings but am getting different results with the SNES + OSSC versus Super NT. I'm using 'Original', but of course tried 4:3, 16:9, zoom, just to be sure before changing back to 'Original', which is what I use on the OSSC with all my retro consoles, with my current gen consoles, with my PC, etc.

 

No overscan except with the Super NT (*or* if I switch the Tx Mode of the OSSC to DVI instead of HDMI).

 

Anyway, I'm looking to see if anybody is getting similar results with the 240p test suite grid pattern for verification, and what set you are using.

Edited by Beer Monkey
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This is not true. Many of the gaming LCD monitors have 1 to 3 ms input lag for drawing the very top part of each frame, 8 to 10 ms for drawing half the frame and 16.67 ms for drawing the entire frame. A CRT has the same property: it takes 16.67 ms for a 60hz CRT to draw the entire frame, so many of the gaming LCD monitors have no additional input lag compared to a CRT.

 

CRTs have lag because it takes time for the CRT to draw each line from top to bottom. So the real measure for an LCD should be compared against that baseline.

What you are talking about isn't input lag. When a LCD has a rating of 16ms of input lag, that is an additional frame of lag before a response occurs from when you press a button and for your TV to show a change.

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OK, having a strange image with my OLED65B7A. (Anti-OLED brigaders, please save it for elsewhere. Thanks)
I've been using the set since October with no issues and a variety of sources; specifically no overscan which is key to getting great image quality. ESPECIALLY when dealing with upscaled low-res graphics, as overscan resamples the image outside of what your device is doing, causing artifacts...plus there's the whole losing screen real estate thing. Anyhow, I've had no problems including using various classic systems with the OSSC, and no issue with my PC, Xbox One, etc. so I thought I'd be good.
However, the Super NT is triggering my display to overscan the image, causing the requisite issues. If I squeeze it down in the Super NT (need height of around 693 instead of 720 to get things to fit with a 256x239 test grid) then we're resampling on top of resampling and that's even scarier.
I put my PC in 1280x720 60hz and there is zero overscan; perfect 1:1 pixel mapping and nothing scanning off the physical screen. Physically plugged the Super NT into the same physical input with no settings changes and if I set height on the Super NT (firmware 4.1) to 720 there's major overscan (regardless of width). I have to crank height down to 693 to get test patterns from 240p suite to fit on the screen, but the resampling wrecks the picture with scanlines, of course.
Someone suggested changing the ITC flag in the OSSC to see if it caused the same issues as some sets interpret ITC when deciding how much processing would be OK on a given image.
Changing the ITC flag in the OSSC did nothing; there was still no overscan. BUT, to I was able to get the OSSC to do the same thing (trigger the set to overscan) if I set TX Mode to DVI instead of HDMI. This is easily reproducible, and the amount of overscan looks the same per the 240p test suite grid pattern.
Another suggested that limited RGB could be a factor; I put my PC in limited RGB mode (and even tried component 4:2:2 and component 4:4:4), still, no overscan.
If anybody has a similar issue LMK how it goes for you.

 

If you could set the super nt to DVI mode, you will get no audio because these aren't any hdmi packets any more.

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Again, I am not changing any settings but am getting different results with the SNES + OSSC versus Super NT. I'm using 'Original', but of course tried 4:3, 16:9, zoom, just to be sure before changing back to 'Original', which is what I use on the OSSC with all my retro consoles, with my current gen consoles, with my PC, etc.

 

No overscan except with the Super NT (*or* if I switch the Tx Mode of the OSSC to DVI instead of HDMI).

 

Anyway, I'm looking to see if anybody is getting similar results with the 240p test suite grid pattern for verification, and what set you are using.

 

It sounds more like an issue with your TV, especially since it's happening with another device as well. I don't know why DVI would cause it (since HDMI and DVI are basically the same thing, at least as far as the digital video portion goes). It sounds like a problem with how your TV recognizes and/or handles the signal.

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If you could set the super nt to DVI mode, you will get no audio because these aren't any hdmi packets any more.

I wasn't implying the SNT was in DVI mode, was just passing along any tidbit I could find re: reproducing the effect! My apologies for the implication. If anything, I expected the ITC flag to maybe be the metadata culprit, but it isn't if the OSSC is working as described (OSSC always has bugs though, on every firmware, though it's getting better).

Edited by Beer Monkey
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