FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kismet]

I've also toyed with the splash screen delay settings a bit. I'm currently using an hdmi to dvi cable to run my asus monitor (the monitor only goes to standby mode with dvi input) and analog stereo audio split off using a monoprice hdmi switch. It takes a full 8-9 seconds for the display to wake from this setup, with audio starting about a second earlier than video. On my 720p living room Sanyo, I need a delay of only 4 seconds for the display to respond, and audio / video are simultaneous. The HDMI switch likely increases the sync time on thd ASUS but does not produce lag. The ASUS response time is 9ms. I have no idea what the Sanyo is but it's fast enough that I don't notice it.

 

Switches/Splitters are passive devices. They don't cause a re-handshake. I bought one really cheap auto-switch and unfortunately when I used it in conjunction with the splitter, most devices didn't work through it, and the WiiU would randomly trigger it even though it was off.

 

That said, HDCP handshake has to be reestablished with switches, but not splitters. So there's no additional latency being added, but it's very likely likely the lenght of the HDMI cable is compromised in the same manner that long USB and long Ethernet cables have maximum electrical properties that limit their lenght. I had one really long firewire cable that killed my camcorder's firewire port, so buyer-beware, even though it may be passive, it may also put additional load on the devices at either end.

 

"Extender/Clone" devices do exist for HDMI, these actually do something akin to a framebuffer, thus they do add latency by design so you can double your distance. This is the kind of thing they use in airports and train terminals to show the same thing on dozens of screens at the same time. Since the signal comes off a computer and not a HDCP device, they don't need to deal with the HDCP handshake.

 

So for the most part, any switching latency you see is due to the switching causing a re-handshake and some devices simply blank the screen instead of showing distorted garbage.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Gameboy Space Invaders was able to launch it's built in SNES mode fine and everything. Thanks Kev!

 

Funny you mention Space Invaders only to show a screenshot of Galaga!

[cfillak]

Kevtris, I believe I've found a bug, but I don't have a functioning real SNES to test the difference:

 

Firmware: 4.1 (Official)

Game: Super Mario World (USA) real cartridge

Bug:

The bug has to do with the NTT Data Super Famicom controller. I have 2 of these controllers and the behavior seems to be the same, so I think we can reasonably rule out a faulty controller. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue with any of my normal OEM SNES controllers.

 

How to trigger the bug:

Run Cartridge with Super Mario All Stars (USA) plugged in with an NTT DATA SFC controller plugged into port 1. Select Super Mario Bros. 3 from the menu. Press start to select a file or create a new file. Press start at main menu. Once Mario is at the overworld, the controller no longer works to trigger in game events at all. It's still capable of pulling up the Super NT menu with Down+Select however. Similar things happen when selecting any of the other Mario games from the main menu. The controller can select and start the games, but can't do anything once the game starts.

 

Edit:

The bug is also present in Jailbreak firmware 6.4 using the real cartridge as well as loading the ROM off the SD card. The bug is also present when loading the ROM for Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World (USA).

 

 

Note: I don't have a real functioning SNES to test this on, so it may be the case that Super Mario All-Stars is just incompatible with the NTT DATA controller on real hardware. If anybody could confirm this that'd be great.

Edited February 16, 2018 by cfillak

[DarkkOne]

Am I the only one that thinks interpolation makes things too blurry to be worth using?

 

I find it adds a lot of blur under 720p, but that the blur's much less noticeable at 1080p. So it does depend a bit on what resolution, and what scale, you're playing at.

[SegaSnatcher]

 

 

Are you using the settings bikerspade or I recommended? The best way to get clean scanlines on a 1080p display is to use 1080p output and adjust the vertical size so it's an even multiple of 240, with vertical interpolation disabled. You can either have zero overscan (960 vertical with empty space on all sides) or slight overscan (1200 vertical with a few SNES scanlines cropped top and bottom).

 

720p works well on a 4K display because it's an even multiple, but it looks awful on a 1080p display.

No, that isn't always the case. My RetroUSB AVS looks fantastic on my 1080p Panasonic Plasma. Also, the input lag is low enough for me to beat Mike Tyson in Punch Out.

[SegaSnatcher]

Am I the only one that thinks interpolation makes things too blurry to be worth using?

The amount of blur it adds is so subtle that even when toggling back and forth the difference isn't drastic.

 

A early model 1 SNES into a CRT is far more blurry, even when using S-Video cable.

 

Interpolation looks fine on my HDTV.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[thirdkind]

Am I the only one that thinks interpolation makes things too blurry to be worth using?

 

It does cause a bit of blurring, but turning it off when scaling to anything other than exact multiples of the original signal results in background shimmering while scrolling, so pick your poison.

 

As the settings I and others have recommended suggest, the best balance is probably an exact multiple in the vertical dimension with interpolation turned off and whatever size you prefer horizontally with interpolation turned on. You get a pretty sharp image with no shimmering. Or do 1:1 pixel mapping and turn it all off.

[thirdkind]

No, that isn't always the case. My RetroUSB AVS looks fantastic on my 1080p Panasonic Plasma. Also, the input lag is low enough for me to beat Mike Tyson in Punch Out.

 

Scanlines on or off? I didn't mention it in my post, but I was referring specifically to scanlines. With scanlines turned off, yeah, you can scale 720p to 1080p and it doesn't look bad at all.

[NE146]

Funny you mention Space Invaders only to show a screenshot of Galaga!

Heh I can provide that if you like. But yeah my entire point though was about the Super Gameboy Enhanced games.

 

We already got GB/GBC in hi-def with the NT-Mini, but it obviously couldn't do the SNES enhancements.. which is a cool offshoot of the Super NT I didn't even think about until I tried it.

Edited February 16, 2018 by NE146

[Beer Monkey]

The amount of blur it adds is so subtle that even when toggling back and forth the difference isn't drastic.

 

A early model 1 SNES into a CRT is far more blurry, even when using S-Video cable.

 

Interpolation looks fine on my HDTV.

I've got expensive broadcast CRT monitors that can scan everything from 240p to 1080p, that I feed with RGB from a 1-chip SNES, and interpolation in 720p on the Super NT is still sharper.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Does the image fill the screen or do you have it set to 1:1 pixel mapping? If it's the latter, then I can see the scanlines coming out great, but if the display is scaling 720p to 1080p, I'm having a tough time imagining those scanlines being the same height from top to bottom. If the scaler is that good, then I'm impressed, especially for a built-in scaler in a PC monitor.

 

My 1080p plasma has fairly decent upscaling, but scanlines are very inconsistent with 720p when set to full screen. Even multiples at native resolution provide the best results.

Scanlines on or off? I didn't mention it in my post, but I was referring specifically to scanlines. With scanlines turned off, yeah, you can scale 720p to 1080p and it doesn't look bad at all.

Pure 1.5x scaling through a high quality bilinear quality filter yields fantasic results. My ASUS looks just as good as these test renders I did before the avs debuted (256x240 pixel fceu screenshot, 4:3 integer scaled with every third line dimmed 50%, padded to 1280x720, then upscaled to 1920x1080 using biliner filter in gimp).

 

I'll takes some actual macro photos later of my ASUS pixel matrix if you guys don't believe me.

[kevtris]

Kevtris, I believe I've found a bug, but I don't have a functioning real SNES to test the difference:

 

Firmware: 4.1 (Official)

Game: Super Mario World (USA) real cartridge

Bug:

The bug has to do with the NTT Data Super Famicom controller. I have 2 of these controllers and the behavior seems to be the same, so I think we can reasonably rule out a faulty controller. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue with any of my normal OEM SNES controllers.

 

How to trigger the bug:

Run Cartridge with Super Mario All Stars (USA) plugged in with an NTT DATA SFC controller plugged into port 1. Select Super Mario Bros. 3 from the menu. Press start to select a file or create a new file. Press start at main menu. Once Mario is at the overworld, the controller no longer works to trigger in game events at all. It's still capable of pulling up the Super NT menu with Down+Select however. Similar things happen when selecting any of the other Mario games from the main menu. The controller can select and start the games, but can't do anything once the game starts.

 

Edit:

The bug is also present in Jailbreak firmware 6.4 using the real cartridge as well as loading the ROM off the SD card. The bug is also present when loading the ROM for Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World (USA).

 

 

Note: I don't have a real functioning SNES to test this on, so it may be the case that Super Mario All-Stars is just incompatible with the NTT DATA controller on real hardware. If anybody could confirm this that'd be great.

pretty sure this is normal. I found many things that do not like the ntt data pad. they do controller detection, and it returns a different ID from a stock controller. the super gameboy won't see any controller presses at all with one in. I found this highly annoying. the multitap games also hate it too and will not detect it at all as a valid controller.

[RabidWookie]

 

It does cause a bit of blurring, but turning it off when scaling to anything other than exact multiples of the original signal results in background shimmering while scrolling, so pick your poison.

 

As the settings I and others have recommended suggest, the best balance is probably an exact multiple in the vertical dimension with interpolation turned off and whatever size you prefer horizontally with interpolation turned on. You get a pretty sharp image with no shimmering. Or do 1:1 pixel mapping and turn it all off.

I don't own a Super NT yet so I'm going by HD youtube videos, but my NT Mini doesn't show shimmering at 5x.

[SegaSnatcher]

 

Scanlines on or off? I didn't mention it in my post, but I was referring specifically to scanlines. With scanlines turned off, yeah, you can scale 720p to 1080p and it doesn't look bad at all.

I keep scanlines off. Was never my cup of tea.

[Kismet]

I don't own a Super NT yet so I'm going by HD youtube videos, but my NT Mini doesn't show shimmering at 5x.

 

Youtube, or any video capture really will not give an accurate representation of what is actually seen on the screen. Most people don't know how to capture video properly (basically you capture HD at the input resolution, not the target resolution, and then change the output scale to the target resolution when you are doing anything to the input stream), so a lot of the mush seen on youtube videos is actually a result of the capture hardware being fed a 1080p60 or 720p60 input but the editing software doing it's own interpolation and scaling to it. Anytime you upload something to youtube you have to render it at 2x or 4x the target resolution so that youtube's scalers don't go to town on it.

 

This is a bit easier to explain from the capture side, but essentially by the time your web browser watches a youtube video, it's been rescaled 4 times. This is why you never upload 480p footage. Always upload 720p60 or 1080p60 otherwise youtube will lower the quality of it, believing you are uploading SD footage.

[cfillak]

pretty sure this is normal. I found many things that do not like the ntt data pad. they do controller detection, and it returns a different ID from a stock controller. the super gameboy won't see any controller presses at all with one in. I found this highly annoying. the multitap games also hate it too and will not detect it at all as a valid controller.

Well that's good to know. I just loaded up Mega Man X and it doesn't like the NTT Data pad either. I guess I'll have to give my regular SNES controllers a good cleaning and bring them back into rotation then.

[NoKnownOrigin]

pretty sure this is normal. I found many things that do not like the ntt data pad. they do controller detection, and it returns a different ID from a stock controller. the super gameboy won't see any controller presses at all with one in. I found this highly annoying. the multitap games also hate it too and will not detect it at all as a valid controller.

 

 

Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I would love to be able to have just one controller that works with everything on the Nt Mini and Super Nt, but there is just too much stuff that rejects input from the NTT Data Pad. As far as I can tell you can't navigate the SD2SNES menu with it either.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I would love to be able to have just one controller that works with everything on the Nt Mini and Super Nt, but there is just too much stuff that rejects input from the NTT Data Pad. As far as I can tell you can't navigate the SD2SNES menu with it either.

That sucks. I was considering forking over money for one of those for use with jb cores, but it it doesn't even work with a log of games, why bother. Thanks for clarifying this fact.

[cfillak]

 

 

Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I would love to be able to have just one controller that works with everything on the Nt Mini and Super Nt, but there is just too much stuff that rejects input from the NTT Data Pad. As far as I can tell you can't navigate the SD2SNES menu with it either.

Dang that sucks. I'll definitely keep mine around for all the keypad controller based cores.

[Kismet]

 

 

Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I would love to be able to have just one controller that works with everything on the Nt Mini and Super Nt, but there is just too much stuff that rejects input from the NTT Data Pad. As far as I can tell you can't navigate the SD2SNES menu with it either.

 

There's a product opportunity for 8bitdo right there.

[SubElement]

Total ignorance here, why does everyone love the NTT Data Pad?

[SegaSnatcher]

Total ignorance here, why does everyone love the NTT Data Pad?

It would be useful for Colecovision and Intellivision games.

[thirdkind]

I don't own a Super NT yet so I'm going by HD youtube videos, but my NT Mini doesn't show shimmering at 5x.

 

Yup, 5x is an exact multiple, and if you're mapping it 1:1 on your display, you'll get no shimmering. I also have a Mini and that's the setting I use (5x width/4x height).

 

You can use the same setting on the Super Nt or take advantage of interpolation to go a bit bigger. I'm picky about image quality and I'm not bothered by horizontal interpolation; it's clean.

[Schizophretard]

I don't get the worry that the jailbreak is not from Kevtris. Seems like people would be more worried that it is from Kevtris because it would lower the chances of getting the Core Store. Releasing the Core Store in the same way would remove any doubt that it is him.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I don't get the worry that the jailbreak is not from Kevtris. Seems like people would be more worried that it is from Kevtris because it would lower the chances of getting the Core Store. Releasing the Core Store in the same way would remove any doubt that it is him.

He said porting the cores over would be "easy" but even that takes time. Then there's the elephant in the living room expansion chips. Not sure what he tackles next. One thing is that rom loading with zero frills makes a nice "hello world" gesture. I'm sure we get more features sooner or later if it goes remotely like the nt mini launch. I kinda lol at the theories by some in this thread that some anonomous third party (ie not kevtris) "hacked" the firmware in one week for sd loads without any source code. Gimme a break.