FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kismet]

Wow! You have a very low opinion of people. I think you're getting a bit lost in assumptions. The prices on Japanese games is cheaper vs the American ones on every console and it's always been that way. All those precious rpgs we all spend hundreds on are in the 500 yen bargain bin in most cases. Not every collector treats their collection like an investment. I'd say that is a very small minority from my experience. Personally I'm just glad all these games that were released in a time that video games were treated as childrens toys are getting the attention they deserve.

 

The people downloading roms for free are not the same people selling them on eBay for $300 on fully loaded consoles.

[Shadowgate]

 

The people downloading roms for free are not the same people selling them on eBay for $300 on fully loaded consoles.

The world is a big place. There will always be profiteers. I wouldn't let them sour you to the point where you're wondering the motivations of excited fans. Just think of the resellers as doing their part in hyping a product.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Shadowgate

[trismegistus]

 

Can't make any more edits to this post, but I went and tried to replicate it on the SD2SNES on the real GPM-02 SNES and I was not able to. So this appears to be a problem specific to the version of Legend of Zelda in the SM pack on the Super NT that doesn't surface on a real SNES. With the real cart it doesn't happen.

I just repro'ed this on my original Zelda cartridge on the Super NT. Steps: start new game; exit your house; during the circle-wipe transition, hold up so you're immediately going back into the house. If it doesn't crash, then just keep going back and forth through the door while holding the opposite direction during the animation. Repeat until it soft-locks (only took me about four tries this time).

[Kismet]

The world is a big place. There will always be profiteers. I wouldn't let them sour you to the point where you're wondering the motivations of excited fans. Just think of the resellers as doing their part in hyping a product.

 

My current job, which has nothing to do with gaming or auction sites, still runs into the "fans that don't know any boundaries" problem. I'm not going to make this argument about me. So just be satisfied with the response that I'm concerned that kevtris might stop firmware updates, or cut features if the fans get too obnoxious about them.

[Kismet]

I just repro'ed this on my original Zelda cartridge on the Super NT. Steps: start new game; exit your house; during the circle-wipe transition, hold up so you're immediately going back into the house. If it doesn't crash, then just keep going back and forth through the door while holding the opposite direction during the animation. Repeat until it soft-locks (only took me about four tries this time).

 

Yup. On my original LoZ cart I was eventually able to make it crash the SNT on firmware 4.1 Took about 20 or so tries.

[bikerspade]

OK, I so habitually turn off my TV when I leave the room, and back on when I return, that I don't even think about what I'm doing. It's basically subconscious. Been doing it ever since I got a plasma ten years ago, to avoid burn-in from static elements.

 

So, yeah, the NT was turning off because I turn the TV off. Feature, not a bug.

 

I paused a game on the SD2SNES on the Super NT for several hours while the TV was off. Everything still worked fine after I turned my TV back on and unpaused the game.

[Beer Monkey]

I paused a game on the SD2SNES on the Super NT for several hours while the TV was off. Everything still worked fine after I turned my TV back on and unpaused the game.

 

My Super NT shuts off when the TV shuts off. Not immediately, but a couple minutes later.

 

However, it's powered off the TV USB port, so that's probably the explanation. I hadn't thought of that. Soon it will be powered by a hub.

 

Honestly the TV should keep powering the USB ports when in rest mode, but some don't.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Beer Monkey

[kwnage]

Mine randomly turns on and off, when it's connected to the TV USB Port while the TV is off. Seems like the TV power cycles the USB Ports from time to time... It's fine when the TV is on, but I also don't like that the TV turns the SuperNt on when I just want to watch a movie or something. Enabling the TV's USB-Charge function doesn't change that, although it's supposed to keep the USB ports powered all the time. Often I see the SuperNt's power LED lit when the TV isn't even on. So for now i'm using the USB 3.0 port on my Xbox One which doesn't power cycle all the time...

Edited February 19, 2018 by kwnage

[spoonman]

 

I'm pretty sure it's clipping because your audio setup is letting it.

 

I was watching OBS on my capture card and noticed that audio is always hitting red, but averaging in the yellow area.

 

So to test that I recorded the audio and set the volume to maximum in the playback video to see if it clips. If anything it seems like the audio muffled more. Maybe try the -3DB output cut feature in the audio to reduce the volume and see if you hear the same effect.

Thanks defintely not audio clipping though. It also doesn't make the clicking /popping sound when the audio is particularly at its loudest.

 

Setting the audio to -3D, was the first thing I had done when first noticing the audio issue.

 

I also have used this on 3 completely different setups, and it does it on all 3.

 

The first was using the audio out of a Asus PS display, using the cheap sounding built-in speaker, the second was in my living room, with the audio going to my Denon receiver out to PSB bookshelf speakers, and the 3rd is to my PlayStation 24" Display, and directly out to headphones. This is how I have played both my original SNES (connected via HD Retrovision YPbPr cable), Switch, and PS4, and have never once had clicking audio from those systems.

 

The weird thing now though, is that I'm only hearing the glitchy click sounds while playing Rock & Roll Racing on the SNT, and not on on the other games that I heard it on previously.

 

Also, to rule out the R&RR cartridge, I played it again on my original SNES on the same setup (through the PlayStation display, out to headphones) and, not only is the sound much louder, its 100% free of any clicks.

 

Can someone, with either the original Rock & Roll Racing, or a flashcart, please try it on the SNT, if possible use headphones and race the first track.

 

Also, I tried playing music tracks from R&RR on the SD2SNES's SPC audio player, and it sounds fine through that.

[djr]

Can someone, with either the original Rock & Roll Racing, or a flashcart, please try it on the SNT, if possible use headphones and race the first track.

 

Just gave it a go from the SD2SNES in the Super NT on official firmware 4.1 using the rom from Smokemonster's pack. I suck at the game, but I didn't notice any issues with the sound.

 

Good luck.

[Shadowgate]

Played the first level 3 times as I kept forgetting to pay attention to the audio. I'm using headphones at a pretty unhealthy volume and I'm not noticing anything odd. Sd2Snes and the USA rom 4.0 firmware.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Shadowgate

[Kismet]

The weird thing now though, is that I'm only hearing the glitchy click sounds while playing Rock & Roll Racing on the SNT, and not on on the other games that I heard it on previously.

 

Also, to rule out the R&RR cartridge, I played it again on my original SNES on the same setup (through the PlayStation display, out to headphones) and, not only is the sound much louder, its 100% free of any clicks.

 

Can someone, with either the original Rock & Roll Racing, or a flashcart, please try it on the SNT, if possible use headphones and race the first track.

 

Also, I tried playing music tracks from R&RR on the SD2SNES's SPC audio player, and it sounds fine through that.

I had played it on the SD2SNES with SuperNT 4.1 before I had responded to your post and I hadn't noticed any clipping, just noted that it comes out of the SuperNT at pretty much maximum volume, where as the real SNES through the exact same capture card comes out not quite as loud.

 

The thing is, it's an all-digital output, so there is no way for the SuperNT to actually generate a clipped audio that wouldn't be 100% reproducible. Even if it were a defect in the unit, it would have to affect every game.

 

I have an idea.

 

Does your SuperNT sound like this with Rock and Roll Racing?

 

https://mega.nz/#!5qBS2aSZ!gsjBRiTUCml0IcP4Q-QlzL-oG6F49ykcPI0FyXHaZlk

[Andromeda Stardust]

Wow! You have a very low opinion of people. I think you're getting a bit lost in assumptions. The prices on Japanese games is cheaper vs the American ones on every console and its always been that way. All those precious rpgs we all spend hundreds on are in the 500 yen bargain bin in most cases. Not every collector treats their collection like an investment. I'd say that is a very small minority from my experience. Personally I'm just glad all these games that were released in a time that video games were treated as childrens toys are getting the attention they deserve.

It has always been this way. Retrocollecting isn't as big in Japan as it is here, and RPgs were more popular there during it's heyday. Also the North American market is much larger than the Japanese market, and as hidden gems get discovered in Japan or are significantly cheaper than their North American counterparts, lots of Americans begin to import titles further reducing the pool of games. RPGs in general are relatively untouched by this due to the language barrier, so they are bargain basement titles still in Japan.

 

Edit: Speaking of demanding fans. Can anyone link me to where the TurboGrafx community soured Kevtris on the console? I know I'm opening an old wound but I would like to see what actually happened. All I know is that something happened at some point where TurboGrafx purists attacked him.

Turbographics collectors in general tend to be a prudish bunch, seconded only by NeoGeo. They tend to not welcome newbies into the hobby. The old guard collectors were happy in their niche before retrocollecting exploded and people began expanding into new systems. Turbografx is a natural progression from fans of the 16-bit era snes / genesis. VC Wii started in 2006 in a big way with an expanding turbografx library, making huge strides towards bringing awareness to the system. I signed up at PCenginefx.com forums when I first got into collecting for the system, but I find the community not as inviting and open to new ideas as others like Atariage et al. I eventually decided it wasn't a great place to hang out.

 

I don't know what one of them said to Kevtris but it must have taken a real douchebag asshole to dissuade Kevtris from ever wanting to work on the system. And it's such a great system, perhaps the most under-appreciated console of all time during it's heyday. Glad it's getting mainstream recognition finally but so sad there's so much butthurt in the collecting community surrounding it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thanks defintely not audio clipping though. It also doesn't make the clicking /popping sound when the audio is particularly at its loudest.

Setting the audio to -3D, was the first thing I had done when first noticing the audio issue.

I also have used this on 3 completely different setups, and it does it on all 3.

 

The first was using the audio out of a Asus PS display, using the cheap sounding built-in speaker, the second was in my living room, with the audio going to my Denon receiver out to PSB bookshelf speakers, and the 3rd is to my PlayStation 24" Display, and directly out to headphones. This is how I have played both my original SNES (connected via HD Retrovision YPbPr cable), Switch, and PS4, and have never once had clicking audio from those systems.

My ASUS is a great display but the audio passthrough is virtually unusable on it. It has some power saving mode that kicks in even with very brief moments of silence (literally a couple of seconds) and the audio gradually fades back in causing some sound effects to be rendered silent. This is both the built in speakers and the pass through so I disable sound entirely by hooking up an hdmi-to dvi cable to the monitor (this allows it to use standby mode when not being utilized) and I split the audio off to my stereo ststem using a Monoprice HDMI switch. You may try splitting off the audio using a dedicated switch/splitter to rule out the display molesting it. At my fiance's house, we have to use the analog audio output on her uverse receiver and not use the hdmi feed to the tv because the digital audio gets overdriven somehow. The bluray player and other conneted devices do not behave in this manner. So use a dedicated audio splitter with your super nt to rule out connected devices.

[Jakir]

Probably going to happen in the order of complexity, if it happens.

That would be one way to do it, but it wouldn't be the most efficient. Far better to spend your time paving a new path than to retread one already laid. The sd2snes is a fpga device so assuming the chips are written well enough that Kevtris the author of the jailbreak doesn't feel the need to re-code them from scratch maybe they could be ported with the same amount of effort as it would take to port the nt mini cores which Kevtris said would be easy, but if he feels the need to completely remake them then it could take months or years for him to get to something not covered by the sd2snes. So it makes a lot more sense for him to start with stuff the sd2snes has evidently given up on so that way people that have both can enjoy the complete snes library considerably faster.

[Shadowgate]

Turbographics collectors in general tend to be a prudish bunch, seconded only by NeoGeo. They tend to not welcome newbies into the hobby. The old guard collectors were happy in their niche before retrocollecting exploded and people began expanding into new systems. Turbografx is a natural progression from fans of the 16-bit era snes / genesis. VC Wii started in 2006 in a big way with an expanding turbografx library, making huge strides towards bringing awareness to the system. I signed up at PCenginefx.com forums when I first got into collecting for the system, but I find the community not as inviting and open to new ideas as others like Atariage et al. I eventually decided it wasn't a great place to hang out.

 

I don't know what one of them said to Kevtris but it must have taken a real douchebag asshole to dissuade Kevtris from ever wanting to work on the system. And it's such a great system, perhaps the most under-appreciated console of all time during it's heyday. Glad it's getting mainstream recognition finally but so sad there's so much butthurt in the collecting community surrounding it.

I guess I kind of get it. Game collecting has gone from a dorky hobby into something driven by people who think of it as an investment to eventually cash in. It's really expensive now and like anything the people who were there when it wasn't cool dislike the new comers. Its just human nature I guess.

 

I personally largely ignored the Turbografx growing up. I didn't know anyone who could afford it and it was rarely talked about in the magazines I grew up reading. I was a huge anime fan but my interests went to the PC after the Nes era. I've never even seen a Turbografx at a yard sale and I did it hardcore for years before collecting exploded.

 

I hope this new age of fpga gaming brings it the attention it deserves and makes it far more approachable. It's a really fascinating console

[Sneakyturtleegg]

 

My Super NT shuts off when the TV shuts off. Not immediately, but a couple minutes later.

 

However, it's powered off the TV USB port, so that's probably the explanation. I hadn't thought of that. Soon it will be powered by a hub.

 

Honestly the TV should keep powering the USB ports when in rest mode, but some don't.

 

I would be careful powering your Super NT off of your TV's USB. The Super NT is rated for 5v and 2A. Most flat panel TVs are only rated at 500ma. I would check your TV's specs. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I would guess that underpowering electronics is not a good thing.

[Keatah]

 

I would be careful powering your Super NT off of your TV's USB. The Super NT is rated for 5v and 2A. Most flat panel TVs are only rated at 500ma. I would check your TV's specs. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I would guess that underpowering electronics is not a good thing.

 

Would that be the actual current draw of the NT? Or just what it says on the adapter?

[Sneakyturtleegg]

 

Would that be the actual current draw of the NT? Or just what it says on the adapter?

 

It is clearly marked on the bottom of the Super NT: 5V..2A

Edited February 19, 2018 by Sneakyturtleegg

[Keatah]

I bet the unit draws a something less than 2A, it will vary depending on what's going on in a given instant. Good specmanship would say 2A to have a little in reserve.

 

So give it 2A.

 

When you start feeding less current, transistors can start operating out of their "bang-bang" range and into the middle of their curve. And that's when they dissipate more power. Think of a resistor vs solid piece of wire. One makes heat, the other does not.

[Toth]

Kevtris went over the power draw of the system a little in a previous post. System is 500ma + cartridge. SD2SNES + system takes 666ma. Game genie + super mario world 750ma. He said a 1A charger with a GOOD cable would probably be ok. I wouldn't be comfortable powering that off the USB port on the TV unless you know it can do 1A.

 

Here is the post:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-263?do=findComment&comment=3958632

Edited February 19, 2018 by Toth

[Great Hierophant]

I was able to reproduce it loading from the SD card on the jailbroken firmware, using the ROM from the SmokeMonster pack (SHA256: 66871d66be19ad2c34c927d6b14cd8eb6fc3181965b6e517cb361f7316009cfb), but it took many tries -- I had to exit and re-enter the house probably something like 15 times before it crashed. I would try it on my cartridge, but I have a game in progress that I don't want to delete.

That sounds like it could be a bug in the game because it seems to occur randomly. In Higan I was using the French (PAL) ROM and one time I exited the house, the music would not play. Entering and exiting again restored the music.

[Mattelot]

It has always been this way. Retrocollecting isn't as big in Japan as it is here, and RPgs were more popular there during it's heyday. Also the North American market is much larger than the Japanese market, and as hidden gems get discovered in Japan or are significantly cheaper than their North American counterparts, lots of Americans begin to import titles further reducing the pool of games. RPGs in general are relatively untouched by this due to the language barrier, so they are bargain basement titles still in Japan.

 

Turbographics collectors in general tend to be a prudish bunch, seconded only by NeoGeo. They tend to not welcome newbies into the hobby. The old guard collectors were happy in their niche before retrocollecting exploded and people began expanding into new systems. Turbografx is a natural progression from fans of the 16-bit era snes / genesis. VC Wii started in 2006 in a big way with an expanding turbografx library, making huge strides towards bringing awareness to the system. I signed up at PCenginefx.com forums when I first got into collecting for the system, but I find the community not as inviting and open to new ideas as others like Atariage et al. I eventually decided it wasn't a great place to hang out.

 

I don't know what one of them said to Kevtris but it must have taken a real douchebag asshole to dissuade Kevtris from ever wanting to work on the system. And it's such a great system, perhaps the most under-appreciated console of all time during it's heyday. Glad it's getting mainstream recognition finally but so sad there's so much butthurt in the collecting community surrounding it.

 

What was their problem? I've been a retro-collector for a few years now and I've had mixed experience than I anticipated I would have.

 

At first, talking about the games themselves (play perspective), its been great. A lot of nostalgic talk... good times.

 

I then got into a discussion (on Reddit) about retro-gaming on a modern TV and not a monitor. That was a huge mistake. I wouldn't have guessed that subject was taboo. I got so downvoted for even asking about it.

 

I then read your comment. It's interesting to see a collection of mindsets about this subject.

[CZroe]

 

I would be careful powering your Super NT off of your TV's USB. The Super NT is rated for 5v and 2A. Most flat panel TVs are only rated at 500ma. I would check your TV's specs. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I would guess that underpowering electronics is not a good thing.

A lot of that is overhead. I imagine that powering a NakiTek GameSaver through the cartridge slot takes more amps than just a game, for example. When my brother asked Kevtris told him that the Nt normally runs at something like a quarter that and said that a 1A USB charger should be fine. Half an amp may be pushing it though since even an SD2SNES probably draws more than a typical cart.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Kevtris went over the power draw of the system a little in a previous post. System is 500ma + cartridge. SD2SNES + system takes 666ma. Game genie + super mario world 750ma. He said a 1A charger with a GOOD cable would probably be ok. I wouldn't be comfortable powering that off the USB port on the TV unless you know it can do 1A.

 

Here is the post:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-263?do=findComment&comment=3958632

 

I recall that post now. Good information gets lost with all of the garbage in this thread. I see what he is saying. It does look like adding accessories that draw power could get you below 1A and it could be a crap shoot with the type of aftermarket USB cable being used. I see why the Super NT is conservatively rated at 2A now. Personally, I'm not going below the rated spec. I have the factory power supply plugged into the wall for my main flat screen and a power supply from a RPI (5.25v 2.4A) for the second tv upstairs. I'm just waiting for Analogue's DAC to get it into my retro game room on my CRT!