FPGA Based Videogame System

[Toth]

I'm hoping someone can confirm this issue, or tell me that my SNT is busted. When I first flashed the JB Firmware I noticed that there was an audible high pitched buzzing that constantly changed tone as I was playing games. I thought it was coming from the speakers so I muted the TV, no luck. Maybe an issue with the TV its self? No, it does it on my other TV as well. Well it could be an issue with the cartridge? It doesn't matter what cartridge I put in it still makes the noise, and if I run it "headless" (without a cartridge at all) it gets louder. Maybe something with the power supply? Happens with every damn USB power supply I have as well as powering off the TV.

 

So finally I ran the Super Nt with the TV completely off and disconnected and realized that the buzzing was coming from the Super Nt itself and was changing tone every time the LED changed color. I can actually go into the menu and change the LED pattern and brightness to change the tone.

 

I downgraded to 4.0 and the issue still happens, I just only noticed it because it gets louder when there is no cartridge in the slot, and I hadn't tried running the SNT that way until the JB came out.

 

Anyways, I am not too worried about this as (just like with the power supply on the Nt Mini) I can't hear it when I am far away from the system and the TV volume is at a reasonable level.

 

I just have annoyingly sensitive hearing.

If you turn the led all the way down/off can you still hear anything?

[Keatah]

LED lights making noise. Doo-doo, Doo-doo, TwilightZone music begins playing.

[Forsaken]

LED lights making noise. Doo-doo, Doo-doo, TwilightZone music begins playing.

They don't make noise, but it's powered by a voltage regulator obviously, and those CAN make noise, as they're typically a switching type of regulator, they switch on and off thousands of times a second, and if something isn't quite right, sometimes the current switching is audible. The LED driver is also PWM at audible frequency, so it could be the LED driver itself.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Forsaken

[phoenixdownita]

Your premise is based on the Analogue Nt Mini being discontinued. There’s good reason to believe it’s not along with a good explanation for it being currently unavailable: 8bitdo discontinued the NES30.

 

8bitdo is even sweeping it under the rug, deleting all pictures and calling it “N30” on their product support pages. Since Analogue hasn’t removed the product page, I expect we might see it again.

 

...and, oh yeah: Bung Multi Game Xchanger series (original or MGD², I can’t recall) had a NeoGeo adapter for playing NeoGeo ROMs on AES decades ago. Wouldn’t support the late titles, I’m sure.

I don't know man when I click "Buy now" here

 

 

I get directed here

 

 

So it may as well be their sloppy link design but I prefer to think it's a sign (the Nt Mini is all the way to the bottom of the page "out of stock")

 

Wrt NeoGeo ROMS, decades ago I didn't have the disposable income to spend on it, now I was able to afford AES + NeoSD ... if only kevtris would make an FPGA version of it .....

[romevi]

I remember seeing the CMVS and thinking it was beautiful and something I "needed" to own, but never got around to it. Got giddy like a school girl/boy when the Nt was announced. All this time has passed and now I have the Nt mini and the Super Nt.

I still would like the Nt mini in a plastic shell and would gladly obtain one, especially now that we've heard news of the DAC. (I'm of the mind they've already got that cranking what with the surge in sales for the lower-priced Super Nt.)

The aluminum shell is nice and all but since I've grown up with plastic consoles I would prefer that material, especially as it makes it cheaper initially.

[SegaSnatcher]

For me, the biggest real difference is the latency. Like.. yeah, it looks sharper, but I don't mind the horrible composite appearance just because that's what I grew up with. But composite into an HDTV often results in far more latency than a digital signal, it seems.

Well, I don't have a problem with clean composite into a nice CRT, that can look acceptable with some consoles that have decent video encoders, but composite looks noticeably worse on HDTVs.

 

Also, yeah latency can be an issue with your TV having to both convert the analog signal to digital while also having to upscale such a low res image.

[SegaSnatcher]

I remember seeing the CMVS and thinking it was beautiful and something I "needed" to own, but never got around to it. Got giddy like a school girl/boy when the Nt was announced. All this time has passed and now I have the Nt mini and the Super Nt.

I still would like the Nt mini in a plastic shell and would gladly obtain one, especially now that we've heard news of the DAC. (I'm of the mind they've already got that cranking what with the surge in sales for the lower-priced Super Nt.)

The aluminum shell is nice and all but since I've grown up with plastic consoles I would prefer that material, especially as it makes it cheaper initially.

Pretty sure we'll get a Neo NT sometime down the road. I never owned a Neo-Geo before, but I'll definitely pick up an Analogue clone if the price is not too crazy.

[romevi]

Pretty sure we'll get a Neo NT sometime down the road. I never owned a Neo-Geo before, but I'll definitely pick up an Analogue clone if the price is not too crazy.

 

I hope it's called something else! I've always associated the "Nt" with "Nintendo," and thought that's where the name comes from.

Maybe Analogue NG?

 

But yeah, I'm on the boat too. I've heard great things about kevtris before owning the Nt mini and Super Nt, but these two products have convinced me that I need everything he cranks out.

Edited February 24, 2018 by romevi

[mrnarse]

I think we’ll hear news of a cheaper plastic NT Mini around the time Nintendo announces when they’re restocking the NES classic this year. It would be a good time to piggyback off of all the NES attention.

 

The AVS has been around for a while now as cheap HD FPGA NES, but it’s not as widely known about as an Analogue product. Analogue is very good at getting product announcements out to all of the major tech and game outlets. The AVS only received a fraction of the media attention that any Analogue product has, so most people probably haven’t even heard of it.

 

So when Nintendo announces the NES mini restock, Analogue can announce their sub-$200 FPGA NES. All the usual media outlets will market it like “Remember that fancy $500 HD NES from a few years ago? Now you can get a better one for under $200”. That’s gonna get as much attention as every other Analogue product and it’s gonna sell like the Super NT is selling.

[Kismet]

I think we’ll hear news of a cheaper plastic NT Mini around the time Nintendo announces when they’re restocking the NES classic this year. It would be a good time to piggyback off of all the NES attention.

 

The AVS has been around for a while now as cheap HD FPGA NES, but it’s not as widely known about as an Analogue product. Analogue is very good at getting product announcements out to all of the major tech and game outlets. The AVS only received a fraction of the media attention that any Analogue product has, so most people probably haven’t even heard of it.

 

So when Nintendo announces the NES mini restock, Analogue can announce their sub-$200 FPGA NES. All the usual media outlets will market it like “Remember that fancy $500 HD NES from a few years ago? Now you can get a better one for under $200”. That’s gonna get as much attention as every other Analogue product and it’s gonna sell like the Super NT is selling.

 

While I certainly wouldn't have minded getting the NT Mini when it was last in stock, my main interest was in the SNES first. If the Super NT gets any additional cores/pin converters I'd rather go that route.

 

My opinion, is that they likely retooled for the Super NT production so it's probably done. There's no point doing another production run if it's more expensive than the Super NT. If they do another run, the next thing I expect is a 3-slot Super NT, which has the cart slots for both the FC/NES and SFC/SNES, and uses the SNES controller ports. Or...

 

Have Analogue gun for the Retron5 and produce a system that can do all of that, and not be hideously ugly.

[Sbeehive]

 

I hope it's called something else! I've always associated the "Nt" with "Nintendo," and thought that's where the name comes from.

Maybe Analogue NG?

 

But yeah, I'm on the boat too. I've heard great things about kevtris before owning the Nt mini and Super Nt, but these two products have convinced me that I need everything he cranks out.

 

Hahaha you won't regret it.... What a great ride this is!

[Loukey]

 

Hahaha you won't regret it.... What a great ride this is!

 

 

[Atariboy]

I think we’ll hear news of a cheaper plastic NT Mini around the time Nintendo announces when they’re restocking the NES classic this year. It would be a good time to piggyback off of all the NES attention.

 

I don't know about the timetable, but I do believe we'll see a cheaper NT Mini successor designed similarly to the Super NT.

 

It's not hard to envision a lot of sales having been left on the table with previous price points. A cost reduced version with a plastic shell and digital only output along with various internal improvements would be a good seller, I bet.

[Riptide]

 

I don't know about the timetable, but I do believe we'll see a cheaper NT Mini successor designed similarly to the Super NT.

 

It's not hard to envision a lot of sales having been left on the table with previous price points. A cost reduced version with a plastic shell and digital only output along with various internal improvements would be a good seller, I bet.

Maybe, maybe not. Limited availability/opportunity to purchase is a big driver for sales. If the functionality of the NT Mini gets completely duplicated by a future cheaper plastic variant + DAC then many customers may hesitate to purchase a future product thinking it may be better to wait for the next version that can do the same thing. One could argue that already happened with the NT Mini and the original NT, but maybe a true purist would prefer the original NT for its complete and total accuracy. I've got no idea what the right long term decision for Analogue would be or what they'll actually decide, but I do know the "if I don't buy this now I may not have the opportunity to in the future without paying tons of money on ebay" mentality has made many companies a ton of money. See Bob's (retroRGB) interview with the limited run games guys. Either situation wouldn't surprise me TBH.

[Katsu]

You can get muilticart repro's from retro circus. THey do most of the special chips including the fx chip and SA-1 chip.THey do custom 4 in one carts with the choosing of games or what they have for sale on there site, I think the special chip games have to be the same category chip or non chip games I just ordered the fx cart all in one which is his special cart that have 10 fx games in one with the new starfox 2 game, thou it's backordered the guy told me in a email it should be available next week to ship to me. I am pretty sure it should work in the super nt, otherwise ill be disappointing.

Got a link? My googling skills are apparently sub-optimal. I cannot find anything called Retro Circus selling SNES repro carts. Really interested in that SFX combo cart.

 

EDIT:

Never mind. Found it. It's actually Retro Circuits.

 

I think it's a little too pricey for me, but for those that care:

https://www.retrocircuits.com/product/super-fx-all-in-one/

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Katsu

[NE146]

I think it's a little too pricey for me, but for those that care:

https://www.retrocircuits.com/product/super-fx-all-in-one/

 

 

 

Nice.. I'd buy that just because, but apparently it's out of stock.

[bozo55]

I want to get a hold of the remaining SA1 and FX titles I don't have, but am holding out for an SD2SNES successor that will do it all. Maybe in another 5 years...

[SegaSnatcher]

I want to get a hold of the remaining SA1 and FX titles I don't have, but am holding out for an SD2SNES successor that will do it all. Maybe in another 5 years...

I actually just bought the Japanese release of Kirby Super Deluxe for $9.50 off Ebay. As long as the games aren't text heavy like RPGs or Strategy games I recommend you save money and buy the Super Famicom carts.

Edited February 24, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[CZroe]

Found this comparison shot on Twitter. Yeah, not a fair comparison, but keep in mind there are actually people who hook their SNES consoles straight into their HDTVs via Composite.

 

240p composite is the only option most in North America have. The same TV probably doesn’t even have S-video. Japan is almost as bad.

 

If you run an RGB SNES (SCART 240p) directly into a Micomsoft X-Capture or Startech USB3HDCAP the results look almost exactly like the one on the right. I've made shots that look like emulator screen grabs.

 

Yeah, that's not even close to fair.

I think we need a little perspective:

Tens of millions of North Americans have an SNES and a flat-panel HDTV with composite and HDMI inputs but no RGB or S-video inputs. The one on the left is what it will usually look like.

 

Totally fair.

 

If you asked the average Japanese or North American SNES owner to dig theirs out of the attic and connect their SNES *today*, you’d get RF, composite, and divide by zero on more than 90%, considering that those are the only two options immediately available and their TV may not support either (hence, the third option). That 90% is a VERY conservative figure.

 

Heck, I have more than 10 SNES consoles around and most don’t even support RGB without modification (1chips). Even for the ones that do, I need special cables that don’t officially exist in North America. If I paid for those cable I still don’t have a TV I can connect them to, and I have the highest-end consumer CRTs ever made. I’d be resorting to my GBS-8200 arcade to VGA adapter, which is not an option suitable for use as a consumer electronics device and not something just anyone could get “today” (I ordered late Niv and received late Jan). At least HD Retrovision cables will work with nearly any HDTV that still has analog inputs, but I think this thought experiment has already gone way beyond what is “fair.” That said, I did get my hands on some HD Retrovision cables recently (may even get to keep them) and they look terrible in comparison to the Super Nt on an old $5,000 Sony XBR LCD that passes 240p test suite and even reports 240p. They are far closer to the improperly scaled composite/S-video treated as 480i than they are to the integer-scaled 1080p digital output. They reflect something BETTER than what the average user would get with RGB cables (considering the 240p-compliant LCD TV), and it’s NOTHING like the picture on the right.

 

 

Definitely not close to fair but to the vast majority of average people that is how it would be.

 

Back before the days of easily accessible information unless you had a vested interest in AV you probably wouldn't have known about the jumps to component and RGB. Even after our first component TV sometime in the 2000's, it still wasn't common knowledge which input was best until a lot of trial and error.

Yeah, but ask: how would the the AV enthusiast be expected to connect it to component back then? I bought an SNES brand-new from Buy.com in late 2000 and best it could do without mods was composite (SNS-101; only cost me $30 and it included a bonus SMW2:Y’sI pack-in!).

 

Again: Comparison is totally fair.

 

A recent real-world example:

My nephew asked for an SNES for his birthday late last year. I asked if he wanted a real one with a few games or the SNES Classic Edition with 21 games. He chose a real console and started a collection. I was so proud! I sent it with the only cables he’ll likely ever be able to use: S-video cables (properly wired) and composite cables. He contacted me last week asking me if I had an extra composite cable. Turns out that his girlfriend’s mom has an SNES too and NEITHER of them can use S-video. Figures.

 

The Super Nt is marketing to the mom’s nostalgia too. An extreme enthusiast who has an RGB setup on the same HDMI-capable TV is not a fair comparison, whether using OSSC, XRGB Mini, etc. Granted, RGB SCART users would assume otherwise, but they have to realize just how unfair that would be for the vast majority of SNES users. RGB SCART isn’t even going to end up looking like the image on the right without a proper scaler. Tossing an XRGB Mini or OSSC into the mix is what would be “unfair.”

 

100% why the comparison is still somewhat relevant. There are still plenty of people that are still hooking up their SNES straight to their HDTVs via composite.

I dare say: MOST people are doing this... or worse (RF). Can’t fault them: It’s how they are expected to use their SNES.

 

For me, the biggest real difference is the latency. Like.. yeah, it looks sharper, but I don't mind the horrible composite appearance just because that's what I grew up with. But composite into an HDTV often results in far more latency than a digital signal, it seems.

Much of that “horrible composite appearance” is due to the scaled treating 240p as 480i. Chances are, you “grew up” with proper 240p on a CRT and it looked much better. You just can’t get good results connecting the original equipment to modern TVs without going down a rabbit hole of expensive enthusiast hardware and upgrades/mods. That’s the crux of the issue that this device serves and what makes the comparison appropriate.

 

I don't know man when I click "Buy now" here

 

NtMini-BuyNow.jpg

 

I get directed here

 

NtMini-BuyNow-goesto-SuperNt.jpg

 

So it may as well be their sloppy link design but I prefer to think it's a sign (the Nt Mini is all the way to the bottom of the page "out of stock")

 

Wrt NeoGeo ROMS, decades ago I didn't have the disposable income to spend on it, now I was able to afford AES + NeoSD ... if only kevtris would make an FPGA version of it .....

Yeah, but considering that there is no “Buy Now” for the original Analogue Nt that verifiably has been discontinued, it’s a leap to assume that the Mini is discontinued based on that. When you scroll down on the different Super Nt options you see something like “Nt Mini: Currently out of stock” as opposed to “Preorder” on the others, at least when I last checked.

 

My guess is that they haven’t decided and may discontinue it but they also may revise it without the NES30 controller and sell a new package... maybe even a total revision with a plastic shell and a lower price.

 

 

I hope it's called something else! I've always associated the "Nt" with "Nintendo," and thought that's where the name comes from.

Maybe Analogue NG?

 

But yeah, I'm on the boat too. I've heard great things about kevtris before owning the Nt mini and Super Nt, but these two products have convinced me that I need everything he cranks out.

Yes. I’ve always assumed that Nt was for their Nintendo-compatible lines, comfortably side-stepping trademarks. “Nt” = Nintendo and “Super Nt” = Super Nintendo.

 

Analog Ng? Better than Neo Ng, which seems redundant.

Neo Mv / Neo Ms / Neo Mx (MVS)

Neo Ae / Neo As / Neo Ax (AES)

 

Of course, they could go back to their old “Omega” branding.

 

Analogue Omega Ng

Analogue Omega Mx / Xm

Analogue Omega Ax / Xa

 

 

While I certainly wouldn't have minded getting the NT Mini when it was last in stock, my main interest was in the SNES first. If the Super NT gets any additional cores/pin converters I'd rather go that route.

 

My opinion, is that they likely retooled for the Super NT production so it's probably done. There's no point doing another production run if it's more expensive than the Super NT. If they do another run, the next thing I expect is a 3-slot Super NT, which has the cart slots for both the FC/NES and SFC/SNES, and uses the SNES controller ports. Or...

 

Have Analogue gun for the Retron5 and produce a system that can do all of that, and not be hideously ugly.

They seem pretty well-versed in arranging manufacturing partners in Hong Kong/China (payments even go through Hong Kong) and there has been so much variety across their product lines that I don’t think there was much capacity overlap. A plastic shelled Super Nt likely is likely a completely different partner than whoever was gutting Famicom and milling shells from blocks of aluminum.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Limited availability/opportunity to purchase is a big driver for sales. If the functionality of the NT Mini gets completely duplicated by a future cheaper plastic variant + DAC then many customers may hesitate to purchase a future product thinking it may be better to wait for the next version that can do the same thing. One could argue that already happened with the NT Mini and the original NT, but maybe a true purist would prefer the original NT for its complete and total accuracy. I've got no idea what the right long term decision for Analogue would be or what they'll actually decide, but I do know the "if I don't buy this now I may not have the opportunity to in the future without paying tons of money on ebay" mentality has made many companies a ton of money. See Bob's (retroRGB) interview with the limited run games guys. Either situation wouldn't surprise me TBH.

Beanie Babies.

https://youtu.be/4mYJ-BkUAi4

[SegaSnatcher]

From 2015, but I didn't realize Kevtris was thinking about making his own NES flashcart. He also talked about HDMI SNES and Genesis!!! He's got one down.

Edit: I guess technically he did create his own flashcart via the Analogue NT Mini Jailbreak.

https://youtu.be/ocpjW9tnb7w?t=2431

Edited February 24, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[cacophony]

At least HD Retrovision cables will work with nearly any HDTV that still has analog inputs...

 

That doesn't seem to be the case according to this: https://goo.gl/KoCBiq

I can also confirm that my old LG LM7600 did not pass these tests.

Just curious, but does anyone know if the LG OLEDs are compatible? (for example the B7A)

Edited February 24, 2018 by cacophony

[Fafner]

For clarification.

When I play a European rom on my Super NT using a SD2SNES is it playing at the right speed or should I use a hacked rom thats Pal to NTSC patched?

 

Thanks!

[zeroG]

When I play a European rom on my Super NT using a SD2SNES is it playing at the right speed or should I use a hacked rom thats Pal to NTSC patched?

 

It depends on the game. If it was optimized for PAL50 you would have to change your Super Nt to 1080p50 or 720p50. Patching the game to NTSC is problematic if the game was optimized for PAL resolution and speed. Some games have no optimization so you could run them on 1080p60 or 720p60 and they will play like NTSC games.

Edited February 24, 2018 by zeroG

[kevtris]

For clarification.

When I play a European rom on my Super NT using a SD2SNES is it playing at the right speed or should I use a hacked rom thats Pal to NTSC patched?

 

Thanks!

It is if you put it into PAL mode (under the hardware sub menu). You can set resolution to a 50fps one (if your tv/monitor supports it) to get zero lag on PAL games. Otherwise it will properly run at 50fps but it will be upscaled to 60fps. This will force it into fully buffered, if you've set it to "zero lag" due to the frame rate mismatch.

[CZroe]

From 2015, but I didn't realize Kevtris was thinking about making his own NES flashcart. He also talked about HDMI SNES and Genesis!!! He's got one down.

 

Edit: I guess technically he did create his own flashcart via the Analogue NT Mini Jailbreak.

 

https://youtu.be/ocpjW9tnb7w?t=2431

 

Yeah. He put his own spin on it and came up with something special. No need to use an FPGA inside the cart to replicate all the different audio and memory configurations when he already has one replicating the CPU/PPU... with capacity to spare.

 

 

At least HD Retrovision cables will work with nearly any HDTV that still has analog inputs,

That doesn't seem to be the case according to this: https://goo.gl/KoCBiq

I can also confirm that my old LG LM7600 did not pass these tests.

 

Just curious, but does anyone know if the LG OLEDs are compatible? (for example the B7A)

You’re right that some will not accept 240p through component but most of those ”fail” merely because the TV treats 240p as 480i. That’s how they will treat it over composite as well and, thus, most work as well as composite. The point was that from a North American/NTSC consumer usability perspective, HD Retrovision is far more useful for SNES than RGB. Even the best consumer TVs in North America don’t work with RGB at all. SNES has the additional problem of being out of spec with the timings which trips up a few more TVs.

 

Even the ports labeled “RGB” on our TVs are usually just VGA.