FPGA Based Videogame System

[Fafner]

It is if you put it into PAL mode (under the hardware sub menu). You can set resolution to a 50fps one (if your tv/monitor supports it) to get zero lag on PAL games. Otherwise it will properly run at 50fps but it will be upscaled to 60fps. This will force it into fully buffered, if you've set it to "zero lag" due to the frame rate mismatch.

For example

Im trying the game Firemen and the European version seems to run at the same speed as the Japanese one.

Are you saying the Super Analogue is automatically throwing it into a fully buffered mode while playing at 1080p60?

 

This particular TV does not like 1080p50

 

Thanks again!

Edited February 24, 2018 by Fafner

[AtariNerd]

Well, I'm not an expert and only play one on the Interweb, but I would assume the most compatible way, to make sure code timing executes properly, would be to run it in PAL, but to duplicate a frame every few or so, to accomodate the NTSC rate, as in a regular video standards conversion. Audio rate/pitch can be tweaked, as well, but both would need to be buffered and synced. The system can't predict what the player will do in the next frame, so it has to occur as a post-process, meaning there will be by necessity be some lag. It might be possible to run a PAL coded engine at NTSC speed, but you have to deal with edge timing issues and would likely break some things.

/cue advice and speculation from other pundits.

[Kismet]

Yes. I’ve always assumed that Nt was for their Nintendo-compatible lines, comfortably side-stepping trademarks. “Nt” = Nintendo and “Super Nt” = Super Nintendo.

 

Analog Ng? Better than Neo Ng, which seems redundant.

Neo Mv / Neo Ms / Neo Mx (MVS)

Neo Ae / Neo As / Neo Ax (AES)

 

Of course, they could go back to their old “Omega” branding.

 

Analogue Omega Ng

Analogue Omega Mx / Xm

Analogue Omega Ax / Xa

 

They seem pretty well-versed in arranging manufacturing partners in Hong Kong/China (payments even go through Hong Kong) and there has been so much variety across their product lines that I don’t think there was much capacity overlap. A plastic shelled Super Nt likely is likely a completely different partner than whoever was gutting Famicom and milling shells from blocks of aluminum.

 

Beanie Babies.

 

I assumed NT was for "New Technology". At any rate there is at least one person in the thread that is obsessed with naming things not yet produced, so let's not go there. I just want them to avoid the insane naming scheme current devices are which is basically "same as the last name, plus buzzword", because nothing confuses people more than devices that use two brands, or model numbers that don't go in order.

 

Beanie Babies are not consumer electronics, a "better one" never comes along. Once they're gone, they're gone, and replaced with the exact same thing next year in new hat, like Barbie.

 

My opinion is that the NT Mini's production is done, there won't be another Aluminum case run, and if there is another run at all, it will likely be on the Super NT more powerful design with the analog output as an accessory. Yes, they could do another run of the PCB, but you have to consider the ability to source the parts. They'd obviously have to cut the 8bitdo controllers from any future run, and from the manual since they've removed those from sale (or simply renamed them.)

 

More to the point though, the AVS already fills that niche if the NT Mini is out of production. So it would be Analogue's best interest to focus on another product, and come back with a multi-cartridge design (eg Sega MD, Super NES, Nintendo NES/FC) that includes the NES/FC support.

 

Who knows, maybe Analogue will just sell nothing but Super NT's this year and then the next thing that comes out is based on the Cyclone 10 which might be cheaper in quantities by then.

[RabidWookie]

What is the reason the wireless 8bitdo NES controller that came with the NT Mini is discontinued?

[AtariNerd]

Being not too technically inclined, I just presumed in my minds eye, NT was pronounced "Inty" , a cute , affectionate pet-name take on Nintendo. A popular naming technique in Australia, if I recall correctly; like breaky/ brekky for break-fast, for example.

[Toth]

I have those hd retrovision cables. They don't work on my TV either. It's an LN40A550 Samsung. The image sort of shakes and probably has that sync jitter I think. I wonder how I let them know. That chart just shows question marks for the 240p processing. They work great on my crt though.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Toth

[SegaSnatcher]

What is the reason the wireless 8bitdo NES controller that came with the NT Mini is discontinued?

Color scheme looks too similar to OG controllers I guess. Same reason why they redesigned their SNES controllers.

[D3ltax55]

GOt a question. My tv supports pal resolution at 50hz. will Europe games in pal mode run good with any buffer without tar problems with the other modes since the tv supports 60hz also? I will try when I get home.

Edit: Well im home put in pal in 720p 50hz ran a pal game in single buffer and full buffer and no tar that i noticed. Im not a picky person thou in north American games in 720p60 i notice the tare going up the screen more. I have a very cheep tv for now and surprised it supports pal 50hz. I still wonder if having a tv or monitor at 120hz will help. im just saying atleast you can do proper competitive speed runs since pal games are in-sync with north American games right?
I just watched linus tech tips and I think they were playing the super nt on a 120hz tv i don't know the buffer thou, I didn't follow.

Edited February 24, 2018 by D3ltax55

[D3ltax55]

Also if I select the zero lag option will it no longer do that deleting thing in pal on my 60hz tv?

[CZroe]

I assumed NT was for "New Technology". At any rate there is at least one person in the thread that is obsessed with naming things not yet produced, so let's not go there. I just want them to avoid the insane naming scheme current devices are which is basically "same as the last name, plus buzzword", because nothing confuses people more than devices that use two brands, or model numbers that don't go in order.

The “New Technology” thing comes from Windows NT and NTFS. The reason the T is lower-case in “Analogue Nt” is because it is lower case in “Nintendo.” It’s definitely a reference to Nintendo.

 

Nothing wrong with give a few naming ideas. Like the clone manufacturers, they obviously are trademark-conscious hence, the obfuscated reference to “Nintendo.” “Neo” already means “New” or “Next” so, in the proper context, they can probably use one or the other. Geo, meaning Earth, is probably where Terra Onion gets their name (makers of the the NeoSD).

 

Because SNK Playmore no longer licenses to Tommo for the NeoGeo X Gold, it’s conceivable that Analogue can get the license to straight-up relaunch the Neo Geo RIGHT... with a library to do it justice. With a deal like Tommo had Analogue wouldn’t even need a gimmicky name to dance around trademarks.

 

Beanie Babies are not consumer electronics, a "better one" never comes along. Once they're gone, they're gone, and replaced with the exact same thing next year in new hat, like Barbie.

Has the Nt Mini been replaced yet? Doesn’t matter: The assertion was that sometimes a history of ending product lines and never reopening them can stimulate collectors. It’s what Limited Run Games does and it’s undeniably what was happening with Beanie Babies. I was merely agreeing that it happens and used a popular gaming channel’s recent video as an example. Just because it doesn’t align perfectly with consumer electronics being replaced by better, more-capable, consumer electronics that perform all the old functions doesn’t mean it wasn’t a relevant point, especially when the one we are discussing has yet to be replaced (Super Nt does not have the cores of the Nt Mini).

 

That said, I have a strange theory about why a gaming channel is talking about Beanie Babies and it involves a pervert, an unsolicited video, my sister, and a companion/friend of Guru Larry’s.

 

My opinion is that the NT Mini's production is done, there won't be another Aluminum case run, and if there is another run at all, it will likely be on the Super NT more powerful design with the analog output as an accessory. Yes, they could do another run of the PCB, but you have to consider the ability to source the parts. They'd obviously have to cut the 8bitdo controllers from any future run, and from the manual since they've removed those from sale (or simply renamed them.)

That’s more of a theory than an opinion but you may be right. Best thing about theories is that you can propose all possibilities you can think of, even competing ones, then wait and see what ends up being right.

 

More to the point though, the AVS already fills that niche if the NT Mini is out of production. So it would be Analogue's best interest to focus on another product, and come back with a multi-cartridge design (eg Sega MD, Super NES, Nintendo NES/FC) that includes the NES/FC support.

 

Who knows, maybe Analogue will just sell nothing but Super NT's this year and then the next thing that comes out is based on the Cyclone 10 which might be cheaper in quantities by then.

I wouldn’t say that AVS fills that niche when the jailbreak is definitely a huge factor. I didn’t sell an Nt Mini for $1,200 last week because someone didn’t know about the AVS! [emoji6]

 

The Super Nt can fill the Nt Mini’s niche but currently doesn’t. That probably hinges on whether or not they choose to continue making the Nt Mini in some fashion. Here’s hoping!

 

What is the reason the wireless 8bitdo NES controller that came with the NT Mini is discontinued?

We can only speculate, but there is strong evidence that it was too similar to Nintendo’s design and had “NES” in the product name.

 

They removed all pictures from the site and renamed it “N30” in all support material. FC30 became “F30.” SFC30 and SNES30 became SF30 and SN30 Legacy and were replaced with the less-similar SN30 line (2.4GHz non-BT and matching Super Nt BT controllers). There was a clear-cut shift away from having controllers styled and named so closely to the originals.

 

It’s a bit like adding “Mega” or “Super” to something to clue the buyer into what platform it is for... or like the ASCII Fighter Stick SN/SG.

Edited February 25, 2018 by CZroe

[SegaSnatcher]

I'm really wondering if I should consider buying a Super Gameboy 2. I know we don't have any confirmation of cores coming down the road via the Super NT Jailbreak, but I'd hate to spend the money on one only to have the core available.

[D3ltax55]

I'm really wondering if I should consider buying a Super Gameboy 2. I know we don't have any confirmation of cores coming down the road via the Super NT Jailbreak, but I'd hate to spend the money on one only to have the core available.

 

 

me also.

[bozo55]

me also.

Super Gameboy 2 isn't too expensive if you are patient and scoop one up on eBay auction. I would give it a few months and if nothing materializes buy one.

Edited February 25, 2018 by bozo55

[cacophony]

Lon Seidman did a pretty good review of the Super Gameboy on the Super Nt:

 

Input lag added about 36ms over the base Super Nt (he got ~80ms of input lag with the Super Gameboy in the Super Nt, compared to 44ms of input lag for snes games on the Super Nt. Note that this measurement included his TV's input lag, which presumably makes up most of the 44ms).

Edited February 25, 2018 by cacophony

[greyrogue]

I'm really wondering if I should consider buying a Super Gameboy 2. I know we don't have any confirmation of cores coming down the road via the Super NT Jailbreak, but I'd hate to spend the money on one only to have the core available.

 

 

Since the original Super Gameboy gets its clock from the cartridge connection (from what I've read), I was wondering if the Super NT could fix it's timing by sending the correct clock, but I don't know if that breaks other timings, or if the Super NT can even put out the right clock there (right for Gameboy timing, not SNES timing). I tried to ask Kevtris earlier in the thread, but I'm not sure if he saw it or not.

[SegaSnatcher]

Lon Seidman did a pretty good review of the Super Gameboy on the Super Nt:

 

Input lag added about 36ms over the base Super Nt (he got ~80ms of input lag with the Super Gameboy in the Super Nt, compared to 44ms of input lag for snes games on the Super Nt. Note that this measurement included his TV's input lag, which presumably makes up most of the 44ms).

Yeesh, thats over two frames of additiona lag. I wonder why that happens. I mean even if you have a LCD/OLED with around 1 frame of lag as base that would mean at best 3 frames of total lag playing GB games. Does this happen on a regular Super Nintendo as well?

[CZroe]

Since the original Super Gameboy gets its clock from the cartridge connection (from what I've read), I was wondering if the Super NT could fix it's timing by sending the correct clock, but I don't know if that breaks other timings, or if the Super NT can even put out the right clock there (right for Gameboy timing, not SNES timing). I tried to ask Kevtris earlier in the thread, but I'm not sure if he saw it or not.

I’d really like to know this as well.

[cacophony]

Yeesh, thats over two frames of additiona lag. I wonder why that happens. I mean even if you have a LCD/OLED with around 1 frame of lag as base that would mean at best 3 frames of total lag playing GB games. Does this happen on a regular Super Nintendo as well?

 

Good question. Presumably yes, but I'd like to know this as well.

[kevtris]

Since the original Super Gameboy gets its clock from the cartridge connection (from what I've read), I was wondering if the Super NT could fix it's timing by sending the correct clock, but I don't know if that breaks other timings, or if the Super NT can even put out the right clock there (right for Gameboy timing, not SNES timing). I tried to ask Kevtris earlier in the thread, but I'm not sure if he saw it or not.

Not really, that clock is what the entire system runs on so I can't change it easily without causing a bunch of other issues. it would no longer be synchronous with the rest of the bus.. which would be a Bad Thing.

[Beer Monkey]

Yeesh, thats over two frames of additiona lag. I wonder why that happens. I mean even if you have a LCD/OLED with around 1 frame of lag as base that would mean at best 3 frames of total lag playing GB games. Does this happen on a regular Super Nintendo as well?

 

I'm way skeptical of more than 1 frame (perhaps a sawtooth lag from different refresh rates) lag of SGB/SGB2 over SNES.

 

I expect the difference has more to do with game coding.

 

If anybody wants to convince me they will do a lag test of real Gameboy versus SGB.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Beer Monkey

[kevtris]

Firmware 4.3 has been posted.

 

Changes include:

 

* Fixed Front Mission - Gun Hazard. This game did mid-frame HDMA enables and disables. Pocky and Rocky should be fixed too with this since it does that as well.

* Fixed Ninja Warriors

* Re-fixed the Mecarobot Golf fix, this should fix several random crashes.

* Fixed Uniracers 2 player mode, where player 2 hovered above the track.

* Partial fix on Front Mission - bottom of text box no longer moves, but the text sometimes does.

* Added individual RGB gamma sliders.

* Added "straight through" RGB when not using HQX scalers; this should fix the RGB issues people had. These are under the "scanlines" menu.

* Linearized the brightness steps for the overall screen brightness (PPU reg 2100 bits 0-3).

* Added limited RGB mode checkbox. This is under the "scalers" menu. Also now I am sending out "underscan" flags, and "IT content" flags which should force some monitors/TVs to disable overscan, and any filtering/processing (IT mode).

* Super Powerpak fixed - check "use launch system timing" box under the hardware menu if you wish to use one.

 

https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us

[Kismet]

Yeesh, thats over two frames of additiona lag. I wonder why that happens. I mean even if you have a LCD/OLED with around 1 frame of lag as base that would mean at best 3 frames of total lag playing GB games. Does this happen on a regular Super Nintendo as well?

 

That's certainly a testable scenario (input latency), but i somehow doubt it's more than one frame. I ordered a SGB2 a while back and it's still in transit.

[Beer Monkey]

Firmware 4.3 has been posted.

 

Changes include:

 

* Fixed Front Mission - Gun Hazard. This game did mid-frame HDMA enables and disables. Pocky and Rocky should be fixed too with this since it does that as well.

* Fixed Ninja Warriors

* Re-fixed the Mecarobot Golf fix, this should fix several random crashes.

* Fixed Uniracers 2 player mode, where player 2 hovered above the track.

* Partial fix on Front Mission - bottom of text box no longer moves, but the text sometimes does.

* Added individual RGB gamma sliders.

* Added "straight through" RGB when not using HQX scalers; this should fix the RGB issues people had. These are under the "scanlines" menu.

* Linearized the brightness steps for the overall screen brightness (PPU reg 2100 bits 0-3).

* Added limited RGB mode checkbox. This is under the "scalers" menu. Also now I am sending out "underscan" flags, and "IT content" flags which should force some monitors/TVs to disable overscan, and any filtering/processing (IT mode).

* Super Powerpak fixed - check "use launch system timing" box under the hardware menu if you wish to use one.

 

https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us

 

WOW, this looks awesome.

 

I'll install and test the overscan on my 2017 LG TV (they all seem to do the same handling of HDMI handshaking) as soon as I get to the next save point in Donkey Kong (1994).

 

Thanks for all of your work it is really appreciated!

Edited February 25, 2018 by Beer Monkey

[Forsaken]

Found this comparison shot on Twitter. Yeah, not a fair comparison, but keep in mind there are actually people who hook their SNES consoles straight into their HDTVs via Composite.

 

I call fake on this one. I'm pretty familiar with analog fuzz and distortion, and the "composite" here just looks like extra heavy jpeg compression after a generic smudge up filter in photoshop. A huge tell tale is that the over-all colors and brightness match EXACTLY. Ain't nobody got time to calibrate the analog input that exactly with the digital one for a comparison shot like this (if it's even possible).

 

Meh, looking some more, I guess I do see some comb filter artifacting around the copyright text, and some difference in the red saturation. Maybe it's legit after all, but taken with a camera off-screen that applied a lot of jpeg compression to it.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Forsaken

[Forsaken]

I'm really wondering if I should consider buying a Super Gameboy 2. I know we don't have any confirmation of cores coming down the road via the Super NT Jailbreak, but I'd hate to spend the money on one only to have the core available.

 

 

Is the Super Gameboy 2 really vastly superior to the old NA Super Gameboy, or do you just not have either, and are going to get the best option?

 

I've used the NA one a lot, and never had any real issues with it.

 

I have the Gameboy Player on my Gamecube too, but currently only have analog output from that, and only S-Video, bleh. But it plays everything up to and including Advance.