FPGA Based Videogame System

[DarkkOne]

Look at the opening sequence in this msu-1 Ledgend of Zelda hack. FMV sequences ripped directly from cartoon series that have absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the game. Apple orchards, gimme a break...

There are a lot of good MSU-1 hacks that don't add FMV (or add FMV from official other releases of the game), but include some pretty nice PCM music. Especially the ones that make use of actual re-orchestrations of the original songs.

 

There's also Super Road Blaster, which is pretty impressive homebrew. There's definitely something interesting about playing that on an original SNES attached to a CRT. And I think using for music doesn't seem terribly out of place on an SNES or anything.

 

I mean, realistically speaking, this is basically nearly what we'd have if the Playstation had ever come out as a disc extension to the SNES.

Edited March 1, 2018 by DarkkOne

[Keatah]

The wired world just seems so much simpler.

Because it is.

[Jakir]

There are a lot of good MSU-1 hacks that don't add FMV (or add FMV from official other releases of the game), but include some pretty nice PCM music. Especially the ones that make use of actual re-orchestrations of the original songs.

 

There's also Super Road Blaster, which is pretty impressive homebrew. There's definitely something interesting about playing that on an original SNES attached to a CRT. And I think using for music doesn't seem terribly out of place on an SNES or anything.

 

I mean, realistically speaking, this is basically nearly what we'd have if the Playstation had ever come out as a disc extension to the SNES.

Just the idea of saying you don't like everything that feature can provide because 1 game doesn't suit your tastes is ridiculous. This person obviously has a bias. It's like saying the SuperFX chip sucks because you don't like Power Slide.

[mrpopsicleman]

Found a minor Super NT bug that may already be fixed in the yet unreleased development version of the firmware. In Super Star Wars, during the Mode 7 land speeder sections (level 2 is the first example), the game will randomly pause and unpause very quickly. It doesn't happen all that often so it's not a big deal, but it does seem to happen one or two times every time I play through the level. My guess is that something about the way the game polls for controllers on this level is tripping up the Super NT. Maybe similar to Monopoly?

The SD2SNES had similar, if not the same, issue with all 3 of the Super Star Wars games when "In Game Hooks" were enabled starting with firmware v0.1.7. The games would either pause randomly or pause like a slow-motion button on a turbo controller. Some people also reported issues of the game resetting at random while pressing down. Ikari said "That is a side effect of the unpredictable readouts. On some occasions the readout will resemble a “known” button combination, triggering an action such as a reboot. I have fixed this for the upcoming release." He did indeed fix the issue with SD2SNES firmware v0.1.7c onward.

 

Not sure if that info would help Kevtris any, but I figured I'd share anyway, since the issues seem similar.

[atmn]

I wonder why they aren't selling another round of Nt Mini? I mean they have all the manufacturing and everything taken care of. At this point aren't they just leaving money on the table?

 

Milling those alu-chassie costs alot, make low quantities cost ALOT. I dont know but to keep the price of 450/500 needs a big order. And there might not be the market enough for another batch.

 

The smart thing would be a plastic mold with the same hardware. They got experience now for plastic design. They would be far less expensive. But they will cost more than the Super NT. (2 cart slots, analogue out, USB, 4 ports, RCA audio out, real powerplug) All those adds cost..

[Forsaken]

 

Milling those alu-chassie costs alot, make low quantities cost ALOT. I dont know but to keep the price of 450/500 needs a big order. And there might not be the market enough for another batch.

 

The smart thing would be a plastic mold with the same hardware. They got experience now for plastic design. They would be far less expensive. But they will cost more than the Super NT. (2 cart slots, analogue out, USB, 4 ports, RCA audio out, real powerplug) All those adds cost..

I reckon it'd be $350-$400 in plastic.

 

I agree with others that have said that if mini is done for, we'll see Kevtris' other cores leak into the SNT. Maybe even if it isn't done for.

[Schizophretard]

 

I'm glad/lucky I got my NT mini when I did. I was THIS close to buying the original NT but hesitated. I'm in the same boat as you with the Super NT. I want/wanted one but all within a short period of time, the heat in my car went out ($500), my sump pump died ($610) and my brakes started grinding ($500) so I had no extra money after bills. If another round of preorders become available, I'll dive on the opportunity. Sure, I can grab a black one today but I want the classic.

 

I definitely agree with your view that it's not really preserving history if only limited people have it. The only thing that would convince me otherwise is if something better was coming. Back then, we had our composite cables, today we have HDMI as mainstream. What if something completely new/different came out? Or once 1080p TVs become almost non-existent in the market and all you'll find are 4K or 8K TVs, there may be an advanced FPGA that outputs original NES/SNES at native 4K/8K.

 

With the Super Nt I'm in the boat of waiting for the DAC. I want to see reviews of it in use on CRT's, with the Super Scope working, showing which analog connections it has, with comparisons with a real Super Nes showing that one can't tell the difference, etc. It would suck if the DAC comes after the Super Nt is discontinued because the DAC is what it would take for me to buy one.

[Mattelot]

I just hope Analogue gives us some kinda multi-console next. I really hate the mess I have under the TV.

Multi-devices can be a mess. Ever watched Gremlins? The "bathroom buddy" had issues...

[Mattelot]

 

With the Super Nt I'm in the boat of waiting for the DAC. I want to see reviews of it in use on CRT's, with the Super Scope working, showing which analog connections it has, with comparisons with a real Super Nes showing that one can't tell the difference, etc. It would suck if the DAC comes after the Super Nt is discontinued because the DAC is what it would take for me to buy one.

 

I'd like to see that too. I use my NT mini mostly on my KS8000 but occasionally use it on my CRT using just cables I got from Monoprice. I see a lot of HDMI to Component and even saw a HDMI to S-Video converter today. I wonder if they would work well and look good with the Super NT...

 

I also wish the Super Scope had more than 12 games... that's less than the Kinect.

[Schizophretard]

Analogue is a company and at the end of the day their goal is to make money, not preserve video game history; please correct me if they've said that was their mission statement or something.

 

On their Super Nt page it says,"We're preserving video game history.","We're preserving history with FPGA hardware.",and,"The Super Nt is designed to preserve video game history, with the respect it deserves."

 

It isn't preserving video game history if after the Nt Mini and Super Nt are discontinued they are so rare that most are still playing on the original NES and Super NES while waiting for someone to actually preserve video game history with long term solutions for both for the majority and not just collectors with limited edition clone consoles.

[Pixelboy]

There are a lot of good MSU-1 hacks that don't add FMV (or add FMV from official other releases of the game), but include some pretty nice PCM music. Especially the ones that make use of actual re-orchestrations of the original songs.

Just for kicks, I watched (and more importantly listened) to the MSU1-enhanced version of Super Metroid on YouTube yesterday evening. The enhanced music in itself is great, but there was this part of my brain that kept saying "overkill" practically the whole time.

 

If this music was used in a remake of Super Metroid (with visuals like Metroid : Samus Returns on 3DS) then it would feel perfect, but slapping this music onto the original Super-NES game feels to me like slapping a muscle car engine on a 1998 Toyota Corolla.

 

I guess I'm more of a purist than I care to admit.

[DarkkOne]

Just for kicks, I watched (and more importantly listened) to the MSU1-enhanced version of Super Metroid on YouTube yesterday evening. The enhanced music in itself is great, but there was this part of my brain that kept saying "overkill" practically the whole time.

 

If this music was used in a remake of Super Metroid (with visuals like Metroid : Samus Returns on 3DS) then it would feel perfect, but slapping this music onto the original Super-NES game feels to me like slapping a muscle car engine on a 1998 Toyota Corolla.

 

I guess I'm more of a purist than I care to admit.

I guess part of it is that I started gaming back before games really had music at all. And while I love the SNES sound hardware and the system's 'sound,' some games also benefit from higher quality stuff. Super Metroid, I'm uncertain about. I've listened a little, and I feel like it could really improve the atmosphere. Link to the Past, to me, really benefits from having music with a much larger 'presence' for lack of a better word. The brass in particular tends to sound really artificial to me on the SNES, and having the MSU music just makes things feel more grand. Meanwhile, I don't think I'd ever touch an MSU version of Final Fantasy 3/6. The music there, to me, feels 'just right' in its original form.

[Atariboy]

Just for kicks, I watched (and more importantly listened) to the MSU1-enhanced version of Super Metroid on YouTube yesterday evening. The enhanced music in itself is great, but there was this part of my brain that kept saying "overkill" practically the whole time.

 

If this music was used in a remake of Super Metroid (with visuals like Metroid : Samus Returns on 3DS) then it would feel perfect, but slapping this music onto the original Super-NES game feels to me like slapping a muscle car engine on a 1998 Toyota Corolla.

 

I guess I'm more of a purist than I care to admit.

 

That's basically how I feel. I'm impressed by the effort and like how it sounds, but if I'm playing a Super Nintendo classic, I want it to sound like a Super Nintendo classic. There's a timeless quality to good music on the Super Nintendo and how it sounds is a major reason why I still enjoy the console.

 

I wonder if there are any Super Nintendo games that forced the player to choose between music and sound effects? I can name several Sega Genesis games off hand that did just that (Like the Lotus ports from the Amiga), but if there are any Super Nintendo games that did likewise, I'd love to see this feature be taken advantage of in a different way by allowing sound effects and the original in-game audio to be enjoyed simultaneously for such games.

 

With the console's dedicated sound hardware, I can't imagine that more than a game or two did this. But I bet there's at least one out there.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Atariboy

[Mattelot]

I wonder if anyone has played the NT mini and/or Super NT on a gaming TV and gaming monitor for comparison.

[Keatah]

Personally, I am starting to know this feeling well. I've been working on Stella for almost 18 years at this point, and at times it's starting to get to be a chore. Open-sourcing anything does definitely have its pro's, but there are some con's too. In particular, it wears you out after a while, not seeing much money (or sometimes interest), but still a constant demand for support.

 

Been discussing it with the ol'lady. Maybe it's time to call Stella complete. Every project has an end.

 

While I'm sure there are still features to add and technical improvements to be made I feel they may be minor in outward appearance. It's like refining the shape of a connector on the wiring harness in a car. The new shape may stop chaffing and hold up better over time. But the driver isn't going to consciously note that. Nor will they write letters of commendation and good will to the anonymous engineer that made the change.

 

I lean toward calling it complete because it runs so many games in with such good fidelity. And I would prefer development stop rather than push forward and risk breaking things. Or risk changing things into something that is less functional and appealing. God only knows this happens with so many "apps" these days.

 

As far as continued demand for support, maybe it's time for the community to step-up? The manual is rather complete, and there are users here that have been using the program since it's inception 20+ years ago. So there is a lot of knowledge available.

 

Or maybe you prefer to go into a maintenance mode where you only fix bugs and make a release every year. Or maybe pass the torch entirely.

 

---

 

The problem I'm beginning to see (with a telescope) is that currently everyone is enamored with FPGAs and the illusion they are exact replicas of the hardware they are replacing. There is no arguing about it on any front. It's real hardware and everyone wants it. Emulators are too PC'ish. Too much to set-up. Simply setting a folder path is a complex operation beyond most gamers today. Or it may be too time-consuming. There are self-proclaimed experts that don't even know a file from a folder to begin with!

 

And the whole concept of running long lost arcade and console games on a contemporary PC is novelty long past. No one is impressed anymore. I hate to say it, but it's true. Back in the 90's and dot-com era, before many of today's gamers were born, consoles were being disposed of at thrift stores, arcades were shutting down, and these games were become unavailable. Many fans and gamers were becoming depressed and upset they could never play their childhood favorites again.

 

Then emulation burst onto the scene. And every month we saw more and more of the old arcades, and consoles being emulated. It was new. A novelty. It was impressive for the PC to play these. How could one machine become another? Magic! And it stayed magical up to about late 2016'ish or so. With the arrival of FPGAs and their gaining momentum in classic gaming, software emulation doesn't stand a chance. Lag is continually cited, doesn't matter where it comes from, the OS, APIs, libraries, drivers, interface protocols. It's there and games don't want it. And if one emulator demonstrates lag, all emulators demonstrate lag. True or not, graphs and charts and tests won't change anyone's mind. PC complexity and instability is also cited.

 

FPGA's don't have to deal with OS upgrades and instabilities or bootup/startup times. And conveniences like save states, screenshots, debuggers.. none of that is important to the gamer. If they want screenshots, they'll just grab from HDMI output/capture.

 

Other concerns I hear repeatedly is controller configuration. Takes forever, and doesn't work reliably. And there's the space savings of having less hardware. None of that is important to the gamer if it's accomplished by software emulation. But if it's offered via a physically tiny console it suddenly becomes all the rage. Because wall of cartridges!

 

Gamers.. a curiously contradictory bunch. Can't argue that either.

[Riptide]

On their Super Nt page it says,"We're preserving video game history.","We're preserving history with FPGA hardware.",and,"The Super Nt is designed to preserve video game history, with the respect it deserves."

 

It isn't preserving video game history if after the Nt Mini and Super Nt are discontinued they are so rare that most are still playing on the original NES and Super NES while waiting for someone to actually preserve video game history with long term solutions for both for the majority and not just collectors with limited edition clone consoles.

You gotta be realistic though; they can't sell them forever and technically they are still helping preserve history by increasing the number of consoles in existence. Others in this thread have noted an increased rate of SNES hardware failures already. Given the nature of the NT Mini I think it's unreasonable to expect them to do another run if there is minimal demand considering the cost of the console. Who knows maybe they can't even order fewer than 5000 at a time. A plastic version makes more sense but if putting their efforts towards an Analogue MD would be more profitable for them then I don't see how I could blame them for making the smarter business decision. Keep in mind there has been a sub $200 HDMI only FPGA NES solution on the market for some time; the demand may not justify the development cost.

[Mattelot]

You gotta be realistic though; they can't sell them forever and technically they are still helping preserve history by increasing the number of consoles in existence. Others in this thread have noted an increased rate of SNES hardware failures already. Given the nature of the NT Mini I think it's unreasonable to expect them to do another run if there is minimal demand considering the cost of the console. Who knows maybe they can't even order fewer than 5000 at a time. A plastic version makes more sense but if putting their efforts towards an Analogue MD would be more profitable for them then I don't see how I could blame them for making the smarter business decision. Keep in mind there has been a sub $200 HDMI only FPGA NES solution on the market for some time; the demand may not justify the development cost.

 

Not to mention, from a procurement standpoint, unless Analogue is manufacturing the outer shells, buttons, etc themselves, their suppliers more than likely have minimum order quantities and lead times. If their only real source of shells tells them that they have to order at least 5000 and Analogue does not feel they will sell 5000 in a reasonable amount of time to turn a profit, they won't do it unless they were a charity.

[Newsdee]

Look at the opening sequence in this msu-1 Ledgend of Zelda hack. FMV sequences ripped directly from cartoon series that have absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the game.

That actually comes from the Zelda manga for Link to the Past. Not sure if the mangas are canon but they do flesh out the storyline and characters quire a bit.

[Newsdee]

FPGA's don't have to deal with OS upgrades and instabilities or bootup/startup times. And conveniences like save states, screenshots, debuggers.. none of that is important to the gamer. If they want screenshots, they'll just grab from HDMI output/capture.

 

You sound unusually defeatist about it, but I think emulators will keep their top spot for later systems just because they allow upgrading the resolution for 3D games, and also other niceties such as save states.

 

FPGAs on the other hand are relatively easy to setup and, for example, made me try some systems that I wouldn't have checked if it was lost in the hundreds of things MAME supports (say the Sam Coupe, I was pleasantly surprised).

[NE146]

Emulators are too PC'ish. Too much to set-up. Simply setting a folder path is a complex operation beyond most gamers today. Or it may be too time-consuming. There are self-proclaimed experts that don't even know a file from a folder to begin with!

Not with a gaming enthusiast community like this one. Anyway an "either-or" point of view when it comes to the different ways to play games I think is misguided, We all have and use emulators (to varying degrees), and why not? It's zero cost, zero hassle. We all have it set up, and always will.

 

 

And the whole concept of running long lost arcade and console games on a contemporary PC is novelty long past. No one is impressed anymore.

 

Or rather it's ubiquitous.

[CZroe]

Crotchety rants incoming. You have been warned!

 

Speak for yourself, I think that is flipping awesome!

 

Edit: Also it totally has to do with the plot of the game and fits very well. Link's uncle being a retired soldier fits a very well known trope that soldiers become farmers to nurture life to cope with how sickened they are when they remember having to take it. And Link going from a simple farmhand to being a hero also fits with many Zelda games in the series.

You mean the awkwardly forced exposition and horribly clichéd (and pointless) dialog didn’t make your eyeballs roll out of your head? It’s everything I’ve ever hated about the most insipid, pointless, annoying anime condensed down into a couple minutes. The characterization of Link as some clueless self aggrandizing child is counter-intuitive. They made him the butt of a joke in the very first scene.

 

Even those two minutes were full of cliché filler. Link mentions how good the apples look so his uncle stops everything to check one out for a few extra seconds that they don’t even have to animate. “Hmm... let me see...” Seriously?! I can’t imaging storyboarding that but perhaps that was lifted from the manga too.

 

Maybe I’m just a cynic who can’t enjoy anything without a point but that was insipidly stupid, a waste of time, and I genuinely feel like it insults our intelligence.

 

I mean, I’ve seen worse in actual games, like Richter meeting Maria in Castlevania Dracula X Rondo of Blood, but I’m pretty vocal about that hot garbage too. The rest of the game is great though, just like Zelda.

 

And the whole concept of running long lost arcade and console games on a contemporary PC is novelty long past. No one is impressed anymore. I hate to say it, but it's true.

I’ve been into PC emulation since the days of VGB and SNES96 and the people who brag about rPi are as bad as the people who brag about “loaded” FireTV sticks and “never” paying for movies.

 

It’s annoying because they are just leeching users taking pride in doing something anyone can do, yet they posture and proselytize like they’re smarter or more enlightened than the enthusiasts who might consider spending money for authenticity or creator support. These mooches didn’t do anything special. Why would that impress me?! They act like we just don’t know and they deserve a pat on the back for telling us when, typically, we know more than they do about it.

 

Nothing wrong with emulators but there is something wrong with pretending that nothing else matters just because they exist.

[NE146]

You can just press "start" to skip those Zelda cutscenes.

[pedroTFP]

Hi,

I got my Super NT yesterday (thanks Italian customs!) and is great.

I’ve been lurking this thread a long time and I just registered to say THANK YOU to analogue and kevtriss in particular, I really appreciate the great support he gives to the community with fw updates and so on.

I really hope that in the future Analogue and kevtriss give us more FPGA systems: Genesis+CD, Neo-Geo and PC-Engine CD (maybe Zimba too someday?) at least. No rush, keep your time, if the resulti s as good as Analogue previous products, I’ll happily wait as long as necessary.

 

Back to SuperNT specifically, I was wondering if there is a list of PAL optimized SNES games, so I can AVOID them and buy other PAL games forcing them to NTSC 60hz (PAL games are both cheaper and english texted).

Can anyone provide a link?

I found a couple of list surfing around but they're quite thin.

[Great Hierophant]

The SD2SNES had similar, if not the same, issue with all 3 of the Super Star Wars games when "In Game Hooks" were enabled starting with firmware v0.1.7. The games would either pause randomly or pause like a slow-motion button on a turbo controller. Some people also reported issues of the game resetting at random while pressing down. Ikari said "That is a side effect of the unpredictable readouts. On some occasions the readout will resemble a “known” button combination, triggering an action such as a reboot. I have fixed this for the upcoming release." He did indeed fix the issue with SD2SNES firmware v0.1.7c onward.

 

Not sure if that info would help Kevtris any, but I figured I'd share anyway, since the issues seem similar.

I remember the pausing with sd2snes and I tried SSW last night with firmware v4.3. I observed no anomalies either in the Mode 7 speedster stages or the X-wing stage (accessed via stage select code).

[Toth]

 

With the Super Nt I'm in the boat of waiting for the DAC. I want to see reviews of it in use on CRT's, with the Super Scope working, showing which analog connections it has, with comparisons with a real Super Nes showing that one can't tell the difference, etc. It would suck if the DAC comes after the Super Nt is discontinued because the DAC is what it would take for me to buy one.

I am curious too. I bet it will be similar to the one posted earlier that takes the HDMI and outputs that VGA connector. Then you could buy whichever cable you want from Monoprice the way they did with the Nt Mini.