FPGA Based Videogame System

[gulps]

 

The YM2143 FM Synthesis recreation on the Nt Mini is good but struggles a bit with some of the more difficult tracks. A true "FMophile" may not be satisfied with it, but don't forget that the Core was a freebie. Here are some sample recordings :

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a3hnkjdkshfnkp1/Japanese_SMS-Nt_Mini_FM_Recordings.7z

 

 

Hi! Good choice with the Flac codec. But audio levels are not normalized. Audio from the Nt Mini is clipping.

 

I don't have an HDMI audio extractor for SPDIF audio out. If I had time I would record the analogue RCA audio out from the Nt Mini with my ADC converter.

 

 

Sound at the Nt Mini sound very quiet (without floor noise) and very well mixed / balanced. At the spectrum analyzer Nt Mini seems more bass heavier.

 

Don't forget that old audio capacitors at the output filter would sound less bright (muffled) over time.

 

 

 

After Burner JSMS - Spectrum

 

 

After Burner Nt Mini - Spectrum

 

 

 

Software (Windows):

- foobar2000

- foobar2000 VST Wrapper plugin

- Voxengo SPAN

Edited March 15, 2018 by gulps

[zwooky]

Finally got my Super NT on Tuesday and after a couple days it is everything I was expecting and more!

I'm surprised at all the different video setting options and I'm kinda lost trying to figure out which options I should choose.

The NT Mini seemed easier, I think just because the colors and graphics weren't nearly as good and all I really had to worry about was sizing.

While everything looks great, I can't help but think all the colors seem dark.

Can anyone here answer a couple questions for me?

1. What exactly do the scalers do? I've been using scaler 3x just because the images seem smoother. What is the consensus that everyone seems to be using?

2. What does the Horizontal & Vertical Interpolation do? No matter how many times I check and uncheck them, I don't really notice anything.

3. How do I know if I need to use the limit RGB range or not? When I check the box, everything seems to get a few shades whiter.

4. What is the difference between between choosing 720p 50 - 720p 60 & 1080p 50 - 1080p 60? Is it possibly lag? I really don't notice any difference.

 

As far as audio, are most people enabling cartridge audio or not? I haven't been and audio seems great. Am I missing anything but not enabling it?

 

Thanks for any help and sorry that most of this has already been covered, this thread has become so huge and it's hard to go back through it all looking for answers.

[Newsdee]

In general, you want your console to match the native resolution and refresh rate of your screen.

 

1. scalers are different ways to go from the native 240p of the SNES into 720p or 1080p. Using exact multipliers gives best results.

 

2. In short, this fixes some scrolling issues where it may appear choppy ad result of upscaling. Leave it off until you do notice it and it bothers you, then you can try turning it on.

 

3. You are supposed to use RGB limited for some TVs which do not display the full range of RGB. PC monitors don't have the problem. There might be a test somewhere for it, or check the manual/specs of your display.

 

4. Just match your TV/monitor for best results.

 

5. You will notice if cart audio is missing e.g. no sound in super GB.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Newsdee

[ccovell]

Well... Crap. I was hoping it was a lot less obvious than that. The Nt Mini sounds harsh in comparison.

...

The fm audio is discussed so infrequently that I was hoping the reason is that the Nt Minis version was just that awesome.

 

The FM sound is a bonus, but I am disappointed that it is a bit off, not just harshness problems. I pointed out a specific bug in an old post:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-92?do=findComment&comment=3721883

there and on the following page.

[retro_fan]

The YM2413 has been decapped, but it was discovered that its built-in instrument parameters are not contained in an ordinary ROM table which would be visible as a transistor array to an electron microscope. Instead, instrument values are defined by regions of P-doped and N-doped silicon, which are the building blocks of transistors. As these areas cannot be determined visually, this has proved a rather effective deterrent to 100% compatible reverse engineering.

 

This is very interesting. Have you still got the source for this information? I would love to read more.

[Andromeda Stardust]

How does the power base mini fm (sold at stone age gamer) sound compared to real hardware?

[kevtris]

 

This is very interesting. Have you still got the source for this information? I would love to read more.

This is the VRC7. It's similar to the '2413. The 2413 is up but I can't find it right now. The ROM is center left on the edge.

 

http://siliconpr0n.org/map/konami/vrc_vii_053982/mz_mit20x/

[LostGaijin]

I have it on the SD2SNES and it works. It won't run on the SuperNT via sd card.

Yeah as of now, the Super Nt still doesn't support the expansion chips like the Super FX (as I am sure you know). But seeing how the FPGA chip that is in it is probably (?) powerful enough to replicate them, I hope someday that Kevtris makes them work via SD card as well. I know it's a long shot but my fingers are crossed.

[Shadowgate]

How does the power base mini fm (sold at stone age gamer) sound compared to real hardware?

 

The Mini FM uses an actual YM2413 chip so it apparently matches the original. I've been reading various reviews of it and some people seem to prefer the emulated options as the YM2413 is known to sound pretty scratchy. There doesn't seem to be much of a consensus between the Mark 3, MK-2000, or the Mini FM on superiority.

 

I'm thinking of grabbing a Mini FM. The other options are looking like a $200-$400 money dump. If only it worked with the 32x. It would make my poor Genesis even more of a spectacle

[kagigod]

 

 

 

 

I reverted to firmware 4.1 and tested againg but didn't fix the issue. NTT Data compat is disabled.

 

I did one thing: set to launch cartridge direct. Did the test with an SD2SNES. Doing this, I can move around with the wired controller plugged into port 2 but didn't work with port 1. My Super NT seems to have a problem with controller port 1 then. I guess I'll have to contact Analogue support.

 

 

In the end the problem is that one of the pins in the controller port #1 is shorter than it should, so it makes no contact with the plugged controller.

 

Analogue support told me twice they sent a replacement PCB but in the end the didn't. It's been very frustrating talking to customer support and each agent telling me different things. Hopefully they'll send me the replacement soon.

[kwnage]

Finally got my Super NT on Tuesday and after a couple days it is everything I was expecting and more!

I'm surprised at all the different video setting options and I'm kinda lost trying to figure out which options I should choose.

The NT Mini seemed easier, I think just because the colors and graphics weren't nearly as good and all I really had to worry about was sizing.

While everything looks great, I can't help but think all the colors seem dark.

Can anyone here answer a couple questions for me?

1. What exactly do the scalers do? I've been using scaler 3x just because the images seem smoother. What is the consensus that everyone seems to be using?

2. What does the Horizontal & Vertical Interpolation do? No matter how many times I check and uncheck them, I don't really notice anything.

3. How do I know if I need to use the limit RGB range or not? When I check the box, everything seems to get a few shades whiter.

4. What is the difference between between choosing 720p 50 - 720p 60 & 1080p 50 - 1080p 60? Is it possibly lag? I really don't notice any difference.

 

As far as audio, are most people enabling cartridge audio or not? I haven't been and audio seems great. Am I missing anything but not enabling it?

 

Thanks for any help and sorry that most of this has already been covered, this thread has become so huge and it's hard to go back through it all looking for answers.

 

1. Basically the scalers option just changes the algorithms used for resizing the pixels to fit the output resolution. I have them turned off because I like sharp pixels.

2. If your screen size is not set to an integer scale you'll want to enable interpolation to reduce unevenly resized pixels which would cause a shimmering effect when scrolling.

3. Basically you set this to match what's set on your display. Both should look identical if set correctly. If your TV doesn't support full RGB, set it to limited, otherwise use full RGB when possible.

4. It's better to use 50 for PAL games and 60 for NTSC games. For best results match this to the PAL / NTSC setting in the Hardware menu. If the console region is set to NTSC but your output refresh rate is 50Hz, it's forced to use the frame buffer to match refresh rates which will cause a slight stutter or screen tearing.

[rule_z]

My new PCB has arrived yesterday, already replaced with the fault one (very easy). Everything working fine now, finally

[kagigod]

My new PCB has arrived yesterday, already replaced with the fault one (very easy). Everything working fine now, finally

 

 

How long it took from contacting support to receiving the PCB?

[sofakng]

Does anybody know of a better method to clean SNES cartridges PCB contacts besides isopropyl alcohol?

 

I have some cartridges that are giving me problems and only work 50% of the time.

[rule_z]

 

 

How long it took from contacting support to receiving the PCB?

One month, more or less. First contact the 13th of February.

[Newsdee]

Does anybody know of a better method to clean SNES cartridges PCB contacts besides isopropyl alcohol?

I have some cartridges that are giving me problems and only work 50% of the time.

Open the cart with a "game bit" screwdriver, and rub the gunk out with a pencil eraser.

[zwooky]

Thanks for the response!

1. So basically, choosing a scaler (or not) is personal taste?

2. As far as integer scale, do I have to size my display manually? Or are the presets (1:1, 8:7, 16:9, etc.) scaled correctly?

3. How do I know if my tv supports full rbg? When I check full this option, everything brightens up a little. Is the what is supposed to happen or is it supposed to stay the same?

 

Again, thank you for all your input.

 

1. Basically the scalers option just changes the algorithms used for resizing the pixels to fit the output resolution. I have them turned off because I like sharp pixels.

2. If your screen size is not set to an integer scale you'll want to enable interpolation to reduce unevenly resized pixels which would cause a shimmering effect when scrolling.

3. Basically you set this to match what's set on your display. Both should look identical if set correctly. If your TV doesn't support full RGB, set it to limited, otherwise use full RGB when possible.

4. It's better to use 50 for PAL games and 60 for NTSC games. For best results match this to the PAL / NTSC setting in the Hardware menu. If the console region is set to NTSC but your output refresh rate is 50Hz, it's forced to use the frame buffer to match refresh rates which will cause a slight stutter or screen tearing.

[kwnage]

Thanks for the response!

1. So basically, choosing a scaler (or not) is personal taste?

2. As far as integer scale, do I have to size my display manually? Or are the presets (1:1, 8:7, 16:9, etc.) scaled correctly?

3. How do I know if my tv supports full rbg? When I check full this option, everything brightens up a little. Is the what is supposed to happen or is it supposed to stay the same?

 

Again, thank you for all your input.

1. Yep

2. It's better to size it manually if you have scanlines enabled, otherwise they'll be misaligned by a few pixels. I have mine on 8:7 (depending the game sometimes 4:3) with 5.0X height and vertical position at 39. Vertical interpolation disabled, horizontal enabled. You can also set width and height to an integer scale (4x,5x and so on) and turn off both h- and v-interpolation, but the screen aspect ratio will not be right.

3. Look for an option that says RGB range in your TV's menu. If your TV is set to Full range RGB and your SuperNt is set to limited RGB, the SuperNt menu background will become gray instead of black. The other way round, blacks and whites will get crushed (most of the picture will appear too dark).

Edited March 16, 2018 by kwnage

[cacophony]

3. How do I know if my tv supports full rbg? When I check full this option, everything brightens up a little. Is the what is supposed to happen or is it supposed to stay the same?

If it stays the same it just means your TV automatically switches between full and limited, depending on the input source. You should investigate your TV menus looking for a full/limited switch (or on LG TVs it's called black level low/high). The best way to properly determine what mode to use is via the 240p test suite.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah as of now, the Super Nt still doesn't support the expansion chips like the Super FX (as I am sure you know). But seeing how the FPGA chip that is in it is probably (?) powerful enough to replicate them, I hope someday that Kevtris makes them work via SD card as well. I know it's a long shot but my fingers are crossed.

We don't know this for sure. The expansion chips operate at a much higher clock rate compared to the SNES CPU, and many have their own on-cart RAM. The FPGA can operate up to ~100Mhz or so (the HDMI uses a 185Mhz clock at 1080p60), however the SDRAM has latency which prevents single byte access above ~7Mhz. This makes Turbografx barely operable without resorting to more expensive SRAM. So the expansion chips, SA-1 runs off the system clock about 3X as fast as the SNES CPU, and FX carts have their own clock, with the FX1 running at 11Mhz and the FZ2 running at 22Mhz.

 

In order for the expansion chips to be emulated, they have to be run at full speed along with their on-cart RAM cache. So the RAM would have to be added to the FPGA because the SD RAM has too much latency to work. So even if the FPGA has enough blocks left to run the much faster expansion chips, it probably won't be able to run them at speed with the SDRAM. I imagine using a donor cart to run DSP-1 games would work, however this is not possible with FS or SA-1 carts. I asked earlier in the thread, and it was explained to me.

[Kismet]

If it stays the same it just means your TV automatically switches between full and limited, depending on the input source. You should investigate your TV menus looking for a full/limited switch (or on LG TVs it's called black level low/high). The best way to properly determine what mode to use is via the 240p test suite.

 

Yeah, the 240p suite is the best way to actually confirm it. Analogue/kevtris should see if he could add it as pack-in rom.

[Forsaken]

Does anybody know of a better method to clean SNES cartridges PCB contacts besides isopropyl alcohol?

 

I have some cartridges that are giving me problems and only work 50% of the time.

I use pure liquid DeoxIT. If the cart isn't too bad, and I'm feeling lazy, I'll just dip a q-tip in it, blot most of the liquid out with a paper towel so it's just slightly damp with DeoxIT, and wipe the edge connector with that, then follow with a dry q-tip.

 

If one is especially bad, or I want to do a more thorough job, I'll open the cart for better access, and just clean it with DeoxIT on a paper towel.

 

I haven't seen a HORRIBLE cart in ages, but if I ever see another one of those that has dirt built up in it so bad that the contacts are actually black, I have some polishing compounds I would probably use for extra cutting power.

 

DeoxIT is fantastic alone for anything that hasn't been abused though. I don't know what the ingredients actually are (proprietary secret), but it does a good job of cleaning, and leaves a trace of some sort of oil residue which protects the surface from oxygen in the air and resultant re-oxidation.

 

Must warn about using pencil erasers, or polishing compounds on connectors. The new connectors have a micro-plating of gold, usually over a base of tin or nickle plated copper, or just copper. It is extremely easy to scrub that gold micro-plating clean off with even just a pencil eraser, and when that's gone, while you may have a clean, good working surface for now, the bare nickle, tin, or copper surface will oxidize much faster than the original gold, and you'll soon be scrubbing again. That's a major reason I prefer DeoxIT, it's not abrasive at all, yet easily gets the oxidation off, without scrubbing the gold off.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Forsaken

[Keatah]

 

What game/kickstarter does that? I've not read many... only hear about the products and that they originated from there.

 

As for concert tickets, I guess it all depends on if you have the money, if its worth it to you as the consumer and/or have a plan. My 16 year old paid extra to meet the lead singer of one of his favorite bands (Stone Sour) and got him to autograph a copy of their new CD. I recently learned that his grandmother did that years ago with Van Halen.

 

I know the david crane remake of pitfall and the blue sky rangers remake of astrosmash did something like that. Not every kickstarter does that. But I've seen many meet-the-developer over time.

 

I suppose concert autographs and meet-n-greets are popular with the young crowd. Grandmas and Van Halen! Cool!

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Yeah, the 240p suite is the best way to actually confirm it. Analogue/kevtris should see if he could add it as pack-in rom.

Toggle the setting. If adding limited makes your screen turn dark gray, you should use full. If enabling full over-saturates the colors or otherwise makes the picture bright and garish, then you need to turn it off. If you toggle the setting and it does nothing, your TV is compensating for the color mode. In that case, full color space will create a slightly better gamut.

[Kismet]

Toggle the setting. If adding limited makes your screen turn dark gray, you should use full. If enabling full over-saturates the colors or otherwise makes the picture bright and garish, then you need to turn it off. If you toggle the setting and it does nothing, your TV is compensating for the color mode. In that case, full color space will create a slightly better gamut.

 

That assumes you can both tell the difference and that the TV/Monitor respects the setting.