FPGA Based Videogame System

[zwooky]

 

Yeah, the 240p suite is the best way to actually confirm it. Analogue/kevtris should see if he could add it as pack-in rom.

I have the 240p suite on SD card, is there a video or guide to using this? I went through it but didn't see anything for RGB.

 

When I check the limited box, everything gets lighter. Blacks get gray and all the colors get duller. Does this mean I should keep it off?

[NE146]

I have the 240p suite on SD card, is there a video or guide to using this?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite

 

and

 

[Forsaken]

I have the 240p suite on SD card, is there a video or guide to using this? I went through it but didn't see anything for RGB.

 

When I check the limited box, everything gets lighter. Blacks get gray and all the colors get duller. Does this mean I should keep it off?

Test Patterns > Pluge. On the left and right sides, there are 3 vertical bars. The outermost bars are dark grey, the inner ones are blue, which can be toggled to green, red, or grey by pressing X. If you can't see all three bars, and you still can't after turning up "brightness" on your TV, you probably need limited RGB range.

 

Second test: Test Patterns > Color Bars. You should be able to see the gradients increase all the way up to the last one, labeled "F". If you can't see the gradients all the way up to F (even on white), try turning down the "contrast" on the TV, if you still can't see all the gradients from 0 to F, try limited RBG range.

[RabidWookie]

I've got a Sony Trinitron CRT with some horizontal bowing, so I put up the grid from the 240p test pattern but can't find the right setting in the service menu to fix it. There's VBOW for vertical bowing, but no HBOW. Anyone familiar with this issue?

[zwooky]

Thank you for this information! Did these two test and everything was set pretty much as it should be. I lowered the contrast just a touch. Looks like my tv is doing full RGB range.

 

Test Patterns > Pluge. On the left and right sides, there are 3 vertical bars. The outermost bars are dark grey, the inner ones are blue, which can be toggled to green, red, or grey by pressing X. If you can't see all three bars, and you still can't after turning up "brightness" on your TV, you probably need limited RGB range.

 

Second test: Test Patterns > Color Bars. You should be able to see the gradients increase all the way up to the last one, labeled "F". If you can't see the gradients all the way up to F (even on white), try turning down the "contrast" on the TV, if you still can't see all the gradients from 0 to F, try limited RBG range.

 

I seem to have everything all set, thank you to everyone who helped along the way!

 

Only thing I have left is to correctly size the picture with integer scaling. Is there a formula to use?

[killersquirel]

Has anyone tried the Retrogen Genesis adapter on the Super NT? If so, how good is it? Is the audio correct or different like some clone systems?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Retro-Bit-RetroGEN-Cartridge-Super-NES-6306300/dp/B0071IDAQU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

[brentonius]

Has anyone tried the Retrogen Genesis adapter on the Super NT? If so, how good is it? Is the audio correct or different like some clone systems?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Retro-Bit-RetroGEN-Cartridge-Super-NES-6306300/dp/B0071IDAQU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

You wouldn't want to bother since it would output composite anyways (the video and audio don't come out from the Super Nintendo... the SNES just acts as a power supply for the system, I believe that is all it does).

[killersquirel]

 

You wouldn't want to bother since it would output composite anyways (the video and audio don't come out from the Super Nintendo... the SNES just acts as a power supply for the system, I believe that is all it does).

 

Thanks for the answer. I didn't realize that it had it's own video output.

[phoenixdownita]

Yet another article on retro console FPGAs and Analogue

https://www.fastcompany.com/40529429/meet-the-hardware-artisans-keeping-classic-video-games-alive

[Andromeda Stardust]

Has anyone tried the Retrogen Genesis adapter on the Super NT? If so, how good is it? Is the audio correct or different like some clone systems?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Retro-Bit-RetroGEN-Cartridge-Super-NES-6306300/dp/B0071IDAQU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

It will work technically, but it won't be HD, composite only. Here's a post I made earlier in the thread, with the GBA Retrobit adapter version:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-332?do=findComment&comment=3968983

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OqvcodUN64w

 

I had the crt and flat panel hooked up simultaneously. As soon as the Super NT boots the game, the flat panel blacks out and the adapter starts outputting standard definition composite to the crt via the trrs jack on the side of the cart. The retrobit adapters only use the SNES for power and controller input. I originally bought the GBA version as a companion to my Super Retro Trio, and decided to test it on my Super NT for schitz n giggles.

 

When used on Retrobit branded SNES clone hardware, the adapter passes analog audio and composite video via the cart slot to the a/v output on the system. For obvious reasons, the Super NT cannot pass or upscale composite video, though you do get the audio feed over hdmi.

[kwnage]

Thank you for this information! Did these two test and everything was set pretty much as it should be. I lowered the contrast just a touch. Looks like my tv is doing full RGB range.

 

 

I seem to have everything all set, thank you to everyone who helped along the way!

 

Only thing I have left is to correctly size the picture with integer scaling. Is there a formula to use?

 

Integer scaling won't produce a picture with correct aspect ratio as the SNES output resolution isn't meant for square pixels. If you don't care that much about aspect ratio, just set the Width and Height until both say 4x or 5x. Those are integer scales. For correct aspect ratio, set width to 4:3 and height to 4x or 5x, that way you'll have at least a vertical integer.

[Pixelboy]

It will work technically, but it won't be HD, composite only. Here's a post I made earlier in the thread, with the GBA Retrobit adapter version:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-332?do=findComment&comment=3968983

 

I had the crt and flat panel hooked up simultaneously. As soon as the Super NT boots the game, the flat panel blacks out and the adapter starts outputting standard definition composite to the crt via the trrs jack on the side of the cart. The retrobit adapters only use the SNES for power and controller input. I originally bought the GBA version as a companion to my Super Retro Trio, and decided to test it on my Super NT for schitz n giggles.

 

When used on Retrobit branded SNES clone hardware, the adapter passes analog audio and composite video via the cart slot to the a/v output on the system. For obvious reasons, the Super NT cannot pass or upscale composite video, though you do get the audio feed over hdmi.

I have a Super Retro Advance, and I tried it with my Super NT recently. The SRA is plugged directly into my HDTV via the composite cable, and the result is pretty murky onscreen. Not really the fault of the Super NT (obviously) or even the SRA, it's more the TV itself that doesn't handle the signal well. It's to be expected, since the GBA image is resized to full screen, and then reprocessed again to go from CRT to HD. This tells me the SRA is really geared towards CRTs. I haven't tried playing with the setting on my TV to see if I can get a better picture, nor have I tried it on a different TV in my house, but suffice it to say I was somewhat disappointed. The sound and controls are just fine, though.

[retro_fan]

I guess there's no way to add the clock functionality (for the menu and games) to the Nt mini and the Super Nt using the mains frequency? See: Mains Clocking A Microcontroller

[cacophony]

Integer scaling won't produce a picture with correct aspect ratio as the SNES output resolution isn't meant for square pixels. If you don't care that much about aspect ratio, just set the Width and Height until both say 4x or 5x. Those are integer scales. For correct aspect ratio, set width to 4:3 and height to 4x or 5x, that way you'll have at least a vertical integer.

5x height by 6x width is integer scaling too. Not an exact match but reasonably close.

[F34R]

I have mine set at 5x height and 4:3 width.

 

Also..

 

https://twitter.com/SmokeMonsterTWI/status/975205964658987008

Edited March 18, 2018 by F34R

[Andromeda Stardust]

I guess there's no way to add the clock functionality (for the menu and games) to the Nt mini and the Super Nt using the mains frequency? See: Mains Clocking A Microcontroller

This is unnecessary imo. Modern quartz time crystals are orders of magnitude more accurate than mains ac. Once when we had an ice storm, my uncle ran his generator to supply power to the house. His alarm clock was gaining 8 seconds every minute lol, because the genrator was putting out about 68hz instead of 60hz nominal. The hdmi needs a 185mhz to output 1080p video. This would be difficult to multiply accurately from a 60hz sine wave.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I have a Super Retro Advance, and I tried it with my Super NT recently. The SRA is plugged directly into my HDTV via the composite cable, and the result is pretty murky onscreen. Not really the fault of the Super NT (obviously) or even the SRA, it's more the TV itself that doesn't handle the signal well. It's to be expected, since the GBA image is resized to full screen, and then reprocessed again to go from CRT to HD. This tells me the SRA is really geared towards CRTs. I haven't tried playing with the setting on my TV to see if I can get a better picture, nor have I tried it on a different TV in my house, but suffice it to say I was somewhat disappointed. The sound and controls are just fine, though.

My new 4k tcl tv does a fairly decent job upscaling 240p content over composite. If you enable "game mode" on the composite input, it will handle sprite flicker properly. Unfortunately, it's either hdmi, composite, or coax rf, seems they have now dropped component inputs altogether. I can play Draconian on my 2600a woodgrain running on ntsc channel 2/3 with minimal lag; still looks like ass though compated to crt. I'm not noticing much venetian blind effects which is a good sign imo.

[Andromeda Stardust]

On a sad note, my battery has died on my smas+smw cart, deleting my original save with it. Part of me died a little inside when I loaded the title screen showing new new new new for Super Mario World. It was still intact the other night when I completed forrest of illusion and unlocked choco mountains for the first time. I had told my mom I didn't know how much longer the old save would last, and was planning on backing it up with my retrode when I got around to it, but too late now...

 

Oh well. I installed a battery holder and a fresh new cr2032 and started a new file. Unlocked the yellow/green/red switch palaces, acessed the "top secret area", and took the upper (secret) exit of vanilla dome, same path I used on my original playthrough from 14 years ago. Got to the flooded fortress, beat the Renzor Rhinos and saved. Fairly good run today.

 

I've never beaten Super Mario World before (shame on me) but it's on my bucket list. I wanna play it straight through, no Star Road shortcuts. Haven't touched my Switch either since the Super NT came out, been having too much fun playing snes...

[Reaperman]

Stupid question: does surround still work?

 

I remember hearing some rear channel out of my pro-logic receiver with certain snes games as a kid, and as luck would have it, that same unit has been handed down to me now. All I'd have to do is hook the rear up to it. (currently using it in dolby 3 stereo mode)

 

The surround stuff is just mixed in with the l/r on that setup, so I'd imagine it's still there--has anybody listened for it?

Edited March 18, 2018 by Reaperman

[Newsdee]

I've never beaten Super Mario World before (shame on me) but it's on my bucket list. I wanna play it straight through, no Star Road shortcuts. Haven't touched my Switch either since the Super NT came out, been having too much fun playing snes...

We used to have a SMW running at a department store in the local mall, around the time where I was playing the crap out of it at home. I figured out the shortcuts to win it quickly and, on a quiet afternoon, beat it and left it at the frozen "thank you for playing" screen. Felt a bit guilty that I couldn't reset it... man I had too much time on my hands.

[Lost Gaijin]

We don't know this for sure. The expansion chips operate at a much higher clock rate compared to the SNES CPU, and many have their own on-cart RAM. The FPGA can operate up to ~100Mhz or so (the HDMI uses a 185Mhz clock at 1080p60), however the SDRAM has latency which prevents single byte access above ~7Mhz. This makes Turbografx barely operable without resorting to more expensive SRAM. So the expansion chips, SA-1 runs off the system clock about 3X as fast as the SNES CPU, and FX carts have their own clock, with the FX1 running at 11Mhz and the FZ2 running at 22Mhz.

 

In order for the expansion chips to be emulated, they have to be run at full speed along with their on-cart RAM cache. So the RAM would have to be added to the FPGA because the SD RAM has too much latency to work. So even if the FPGA has enough blocks left to run the much faster expansion chips, it probably won't be able to run them at speed with the SDRAM. I imagine using a donor cart to run DSP-1 games would work, however this is not possible with FS or SA-1 carts. I asked earlier in the thread, and it was explained to me.

So your saying it doesn't have enough RAM as of now? Is this for sure?

 

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

[Riptide]

I've got a Sony Trinitron CRT with some horizontal bowing, so I put up the grid from the 240p test pattern but can't find the right setting in the service menu to fix it. There's VBOW for vertical bowing, but no HBOW. Anyone familiar with this issue?

you might try www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/ if no one here knows

[Forsaken]

This is unnecessary imo. Modern quartz time crystals are orders of magnitude more accurate than mains ac. Once when we had an ice storm, my uncle ran his generator to supply power to the house. His alarm clock was gaining 8 seconds every minute lol, because the genrator was putting out about 68hz instead of 60hz nominal. The hdmi needs a 185mhz to output 1080p video. This would be difficult to multiply accurately from a 60hz sine wave.

Mains controlled clocks at least used to be, on average, as accurate as the atomic reference clocks, because the power grid operators kept their own mains controlled clocks, and when they would slip behind, they would "rev up" the generator turbines faster to catch the clocks back up to actual time, and vice versa. I discovered this on my own in the course of an experiment where I plotted the error of various clocks around the house against a clock freshly synchronized with a reference. The mains controlled clocks would be ahead a few seconds one day, behind a few the next, but always always stayed within 10 seconds or so of reference.

 

Recently though, they've been reconsidering this, because it uses extra fuel to "rev up" the turbines to catch the clocks up, so they've been at least toying with the idea of just making a "best effort" to hit 60hz, but letting the error drift and accumulate as it may, never deliberately making up for prior errors.

 

But yeh, it would not only not be suitable to the purposes of the Super NT, due to random error and drift, it would not be possible anyways, since the Super NT never sees mains current at all, being DC powered.

[Andromeda Stardust]

So your saying it doesn't have enough RAM as of now? Is this for sure?

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

It has enough ram, but the sdram on the motherboard has too much latency to fetch single bytes at the speed the expansion chips run at. Sdram may be able to stream data at a very high clock rate, but older consoles need sram to fetch single bytes at a time. So the sdram takes several clock cycles to fetch the data for each non-sequential request, so the fpga can't reliably fetch data faster than 7mhz or so. Sram is more expensive than sdram for lower capacities, and the expansion chips like fx and sa-1 run faster than 7mhz, so they can't read from the sdram at full speed. The fpga might have enough blocks to simulate the expansion cpus, but the sdram is too slow, so cart ram would need dedicated circuits in the fpga.

 

Kevtris can elaborate further, in fact he explained it much better than I could earlier in the thread. Info is getting hard to follow with people asking the same questions and answers again and again. I confess I've read every post in this long thread, and the search function works only if you already know what was said before.

[Jurai]

We don't know this for sure. The expansion chips operate at a much higher clock rate compared to the SNES CPU, and many have their own on-cart RAM. The FPGA can operate up to ~100Mhz or so (the HDMI uses a 185Mhz clock at 1080p60), however the SDRAM has latency which prevents single byte access above ~7Mhz. This makes Turbografx barely operable without resorting to more expensive SRAM. So the expansion chips, SA-1 runs off the system clock about 3X as fast as the SNES CPU, and FX carts have their own clock, with the FX1 running at 11Mhz and the FZ2 running at 22Mhz.

 

In order for the expansion chips to be emulated, they have to be run at full speed along with their on-cart RAM cache. So the RAM would have to be added to the FPGA because the SD RAM has too much latency to work. So even if the FPGA has enough blocks left to run the much faster expansion chips, it probably won't be able to run them at speed with the SDRAM. I imagine using a donor cart to run DSP-1 games would work, however this is not possible with FS or SA-1 carts. I asked earlier in the thread, and it was explained to me.

 

Could the Super NT in jailbreak mode feasibly use a plugged in cart's expansion chip in tandem with it's core for playing a dumped copy? (I am in no way shape or form familiar enough with the hardware to know if this can be done or not)