FPGA Based Videogame System

[Forsaken]

And yeah, I do believe the RadioShack Iron gets worse instead of better with time. I had a time getting it to do anything the last time I used it I couldn't even desolder a simple 3-pin regulator chip. I finally just held the tip off my Weller Iron sideways while ***gently*** tugging on the backside with a pliers. It slid right out. Last actual DIP chip I tried to remove last year was a Ballblazer I ended up putting the PCB in the oven at 400 suspended over a pie pan with paper clips, and immediately removed it after the chip dropped. The desolder iron is a junk tool now but it worked well enough in the beginning, and would likely work well again if I could simply walk down the street to buy fresh tips. But you are right. I ain't spending top dollar on a desolder kit I'll rarely use, nor am I investing in a micro-soldering station or hot air gun to work on modern SMT chips. I sent my N64 off to a pro installer to get the UltraHDMI mod and it was worth the money.

 

Tanooki, let's agree to move on. The less said on this subject, the better. I would probably also have had animosity towards anything NA related if I was in your shoes. Besides Scoreboard is not a requirement to have a good time, just a bonus. I don't pretend it's the best thing since sliced bread. The wow factor of submitting scores wore off within a few weeks. Sometimes I'd just test games to see if they worked and submit a lame-o score, then have like my best game ever when it wasn't even set up to log my gameplay.

Though the UltraHDMI looks more intimidating, I actually found it much MUCH easier than the Hi-Def NES. I'd never done much SMD work before, and it was still easy, even with just an ordinary temperature controlled Weller pencil iron and some MG Chemicals liquid rosin flux. It's easier because there is no DE-soldering, all you have to do is stick the ribbon cable on the right spots with a tiny bit of solder. Marshall has a really great install guide that helped a lot, as well as GameTech's video of it.

 

My soldering:

[killersquirel]

I know the popular thinking is that the next analog system will be a genesis FPGA and I will definitely get one, but I had a thought that I would absolutely love to get a neo geo FPGA system. It would be great to get a jailbreak for it that would allow you to play games off the SD card and have the code system that the uni bios has all built into an amazing system that can hook up via hdmi. What are your thoughts on this idea?

[Andromeda Stardust]

I know the popular thinking is that the next analog system will be a genesis FPGA and I will definitely get one, but I had a thought that I would absolutely love to get a neo geo FPGA system. It would be great to get a jailbreak for it that would allow you to play games off the SD card and have the code system that the uni bios has all built into an amazing system that can hook up via hdmi. What are your thoughts on this idea?

Genesis / Mega Drive (with dual slots for master system cart support + fm sound built in) has more mass appeal than neo geo at this point in time. CD / 32X fans might be salty due to lack of feasibility, but a lot more people grew up with a base genesis than ever had a Neo Geo AVS.

[phoenixdownita]

..but to be fair, if kevtris pulls it off (I mean a neo-geo FPGA) Analogue can charge easily 500US$ for it, completely eschew the aluminum-tank coffin enclosure and have people be happy about it. If the firmware fairy shows up and allows SD loading of original encrypted ROMs and support for Unibios then it would be epic.
(I personally recently paid again for Unibios 4.0 even if I was entitled to the free upgrade program as I bought version 3.2 a few years back .... beer money but that was my token of admiration to Razoola for the awesome Unibios )

[LewisD]

I would have no problem paying $500+ for an Analoge NG as long as it included a wireless Neo Geo styled controller with joystick and had SD rom support.

[RetrogamerX]

I would have no problem paying $500+ for an Analoge NG as long as it included a wireless Neo Geo styled controller with joystick and had SD rom support.

 

This^

 

I like this idea. While I know a Genesis/Mega Drive is coming at some point, tbh I would rather have a Neo Geo more.

[Tanooki]

I'd even consider losing my arcade cab as much as the aesthetic is much of what I care for if there were a FPGA HDMI system for the MVS.

[Intense.Mark]

As a retro gamer, I would love to get a Neo Geo FPGA with digital output. In a business point of view though, I don't think they'll do one anytime soon.

 

Their original CMVS was intended to be produced for a small number of enthusiasts. They chose the NES as their next project to get a wider audience. They now have the intention to get a mass market with their current systems and that's why they chose to release a NES and SNES FPGA's. These systems have great libraries of games and small retro gaming companies are still producing games and accessories. Games and accessories for the Neo Geo are expensive though whether it's an AES or MVS.

 

If they make another run of both NT mini and Super NT, I believe it will still sell well.

[LewisD]

As a retro gamer, I would love to get a Neo Geo FPGA with digital output. In a business point of view though, I don't think they'll do one anytime soon.

 

Their original CMVS was intended to be produced for a small number of enthusiasts. They chose the NES as their next project to get a wider audience. They now have the intention to get a mass market with their current systems and that's why they chose to release a NES and SNES FPGA's. These systems have great libraries of games and small retro gaming companies are still producing games and accessories. Games and accessories for the Neo Geo are expensive though whether it's an AES or MVS.

 

If they make another run of both NT mini and Super NT, I believe it will still sell well.

While this is true, you are underestimating the demand for modern Neo Geo hardware. The market for a NG product may be smaller, but there will be a greater willingness to accept a higher price tag compared to a mass market product like the Super NT. As long as a potential NG product allows for rom support via SD card, it will sell like hot cakes.

[Intense.Mark]

I'm not underestimating it. We'll eventually get it. It's just not too soon. As you mentioned, a Neo Geo FPGA may cost $500. We also need to take into consideration the reverse engineering of this hardware may take longer. Maybe we'll see it after a few years. I think they will concentrate on retro consoles that can be priced 189USD and easier to reverse engineer.

 

Btw, loading ROMS on the SD card has never been advertised by the company. The jailbroken firmware is unofficial.

 

Loading Neo Geo games from an SD is also complicated that it took years before a Neo Geo flash cart was produced. Neo SD and Darksoft's multi cart are also complex expensive pieces of hardware right now.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Intense.Mark

[Tanooki]

I think the Neo Geo hardware is being over-estimated a bit. He is right, the NES/SNES have dramatically more games out there to pick up wherever whenever and far grossly far less money in most cases so it's easier to justify a system with 10s of millions of games put out there over the years than one with maybe hundreds of thousands or so that's quite niche. I'm speaking from someone wanting this, but I just don't see it taking a priority over some more obvious stuff. When you see them as it is trying to tamp down costs to a $200~ system vs one 2 to 2.5x that price they're going for a more mass market HDMI console appeal there. It's not too expensive and not too low to cheapen it either.

 

The most appealing easy to market stuff if you stuck with console is what is done now, and annoyingly the Genesis, but beyond that not a whole lot else other than going Sony with the PS1. That I'm sure could inspire some fan rage but whatever. Now if handhelds got put into the fold, Gameboy, Gameboy Color and the Advance, perhaps even the Game Gear would make some rational sense though I don't see many people demanding a FPGA portable doing that which is a shame.

 

In the end those NT boxes get firmware hacks, that'll be where you'll get your NeoGeo fix -- hack + NG emulator = HDMI Neo Geo fun with roms being realistically speaking here.

[Andromeda Stardust]

While this is true, you are underestimating the demand for modern Neo Geo hardware. The market for a NG product may be smaller, but there will be a greater willingness to accept a higher price tag compared to a mass market product like the Super NT. As long as a potential NG product allows for rom support via SD card, it will sell like hot cakes.

You are grossly overestimating the demand for Neo Geo hardware.

 

How many kids/teens grew up with NES? SNES? Genesis? Tens of millions.

 

How many kids grew up with a Neo Geo in their bedroom? Not that many. Less than one million to be sure.

 

 

As of March 1997, the Neo Geo and the Neo Geo CD combined had sold 980,000 units worldwide.

 

So I believe there would be a lot more demand for an FPGA Genesis than NEo Geo. There certainly are a lot more Genesis carts floating around for much cheaper compared to MVS/AES...

[NE146]

Maybe I've missed something for years (and someone can educate me) but I have to be honest in that I've always found the Neo Geo library to be somewhat less than compelling. Just saying.

[LewisD]

How many kids/teens grew up with NES? SNES? Genesis? Tens of millions.

 

How many kids grew up with a Neo Geo in their bedroom? Not that many. Less than one million to be sure.

 

So I believe there would be a lot more demand for an FPGA Genesis than NEo Geo. There certainly are a lot more Genesis carts floating around for much cheaper compared to MVS/AES...

No one is debating the demand between Genesis and Neo Geo, simply that you and other people on here are indeed grossly underestimating the demand for Neo Geo. Many of those kids that didnt grow up with a Neo Geo in their bedrooms all dreamed of owning one and only had access to Neo Geo games in an arcade, so yes the demand is there. Edited May 31, 2018 by LewisD

[LewisD]

Maybe I've missed something for years (and someone can educate me) but I have to be honest in that I've always found the Neo Geo library to be somewhat less than compelling. Just saying.

Different strokes for different folks. Thanks for your opinion.

[killersquirel]

Sure there were many millions more Genesis owners than Neo Geo owners. What you are underestimating are the many gamers that haven't had the Neo Geo, but played it at the arcade or always wanted one and couldn't afford it when they were younger. I think that demand is there, but there is no denying that a Genesis FPGA will sell well.

[phoenixdownita]

NES and SNES were tackled imho because they need no BIOS to work, same goes for the Megadrive and PCE/TG16 ... the rest requires a BIOS (with related copyright license) and a lot of headaches for a company to try to sell the HW without one for obvious reasons.

 

No wonder why there are so many Famiclone, Snes clones and MD clones ... no BIOS = no copyright issues

Now the N64 has no BIOS to speak of (those 2Ks of ROMs to do pif validation can be bypassed) and allegedly the Sega Saturn needs no BIOS to play games (it does use it for its own GUI though).

The 2600 has no BIOS not sure how many people are willing to pony up 200US$ for an FPGA VCS, the 7800 and 5200 both have BIOS, debatable if it's needed at all to play games.

[Tanooki]

I was one of those who wanted one and loved the arcade stuff and played it whenever. It was just two years ago I ended up in a dumb luck situation where that problem got solved. But even as much as I do like what I have, looking at the available game stock out there, and the asinine (relatively speaking) high price of the existing kits and kit to come which should be even more it harms the practicality of that NG FPGA system even more. Desire is a strong motivator, but the damn games just in the last year alone have spiraled a lot higher on the MVS side. Not as nauseating as most the AES prices, but it's starting to really suck when a year ago a $40-50 shipped game is now double or double plus that and the others have crept annoyingly higher too. It's not like a Genesis where most the games, cart only, are still insanely cheap and very very wide spread. And even if you wanted to save the bullet to the wallet and got a kit, a genesis everdrive style kit is like a $100 so the investment level there is dramatically far lower there too.

 

There's nothing about over or under estimating anything with SNK/Neo Geo -- shits expensive, stock is very limited compared. Sega Genesis -- blown out into insane levels of stock, prices are laughably lower compared, far more nostalgia behind it on the home ownership side of things too, and Sega still trolls it out in multiple formats too while SNK is just cracking back into being a living company with ACA and mobile rollouts so far. Even those rollouts may hurt other than die hard purists when you can pop off a NG game for $6 if you have a Switch for the largest library so far or lesser so with Sony.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Maybe I've missed something for years (and someone can educate me) but I have to be honest in that I've always found the Neo Geo library to be somewhat less than compelling. Just saying.

If you're a fan of fighting games, by all means get a Neo Geo. Pretty much every other popular gaming genre of the early 90s have much better selection on TG-16, Genesis, and SNES.

 

SHMUPs on TG-16. RPGs on SNES. Genesis if you like action games with a bit of attitude.

[phoenixdownita]

I think once you have one and play with it you realize how powerful that beast was compared to anything around it.

It's really something else, the attention to details on its games is astonishing, there are a few duds for sure (Riding Hero comes to mind) and it's heavy on fighters (around 30%) but there's plenty to enjoy (pure arcade bliss).

Yes the price is still very steep, even with a flashcart, but man it's really the Rolls-Royce of the 16bits.

Given it needs a BIOS to work I am not holding my breath.

[cacophony]

Given it needs a BIOS to work I am not holding my breath.

 

Couldn't the BIOS just be reverse engineered? Why is the BIOS more difficult or legally problematic to recreate than the hardware itself?

[spoonman]

Any news on when the Super Nt scanlines are going to be revamped. It seems like everything else on it is nearly perfect now, so maybe we'll see this next if Kev has any free time.

[bikerspade]

Couldn't the BIOS just be reverse engineered? Why is the BIOS more difficult or legally problematic to recreate than the hardware itself?

UNIBIOS by Razoola already exists for NEO GEO and is openly sold so that could be used.

[pedroTFP]

Personally, I'd buy all 3 among Neo-Geo\PCE\Genesis released once a year until 2020, though I'd prefer NG first, mainly due to the fact that Genesis is both the most similar to the already released SNES and the more widely available\cheaper.

 

In addition, a both MVS\AES cart capable machine would be great (great saves over original hw); if it'd even be able to get analogic output via some sort of DAC (about that: when Analogue one's for SuperNT will be available?) it would be fantastic, expecially because RGB situation on Neogeo is not so clear. Some AES board are quite ok, but some can look a little washed out. Even a CMVS is not perfect: waiting lists are long, it can be very expansive etc etc.

 

On a completely unrelated matter: is there any chance, at least in theory, to play a FX rom with the original cart (but from a different region) in the slot via CF on SuperNT? I mean, like playing Yoshi's Island US with Japanese cart in the slot? That'd be great!

Edited June 1, 2018 by pedroTFP

[ginoscope]

I think once you have one and play with it you realize how powerful that beast was compared to anything around it.

It's really something else, the attention to details on its games is astonishing, there are a few duds for sure (Riding Hero comes to mind) and it's heavy on fighters (around 30%) but there's plenty to enjoy (pure arcade bliss).

Yes the price is still very steep, even with a flashcart, but man it's really the Rolls-Royce of the 16bits.

Given it needs a BIOS to work I am not holding my breath.

 

I totally agree I just got a neosd for my AES recently and the games really are amazing. I play in RGB on my modded Sony crt and it's just pixel art heaven. Everyone thinks the Neo Geo library is only fighters but there is a lot more to play than just fighters. I think an FPGA neo would be a good idea.