FPGA Based Videogame System

[jamon1567]

 

Nostalgia is a heavy burden to bear. The red/white model 1 is what everyone in NA thinks of when they think of the Genesis, unless for some reason (like me) the model 2 was their first Sega system. Even then I still got the US version. The only difference between the two is the color of the power button so I'm sure Analogue can make more very easily.

 

What surprised me is just how many people have white ones on Twitter. I thought about white but my goodness it would dirty up in a hurry.

 

Hey, I totally get that too. There's no wrong choice to make here

[AtariNerd]

Nostalgia is a heavy burden, indeed. At least they provided a rubber sheet for the youngest of and us oldster gamers. (I know it's a spacer/filler/buffer for the CD unit.)

 

 

OK, I must away to tend to the critters, who are making fussy.

[Toth]

I received both of mine today and they were correct (USA and JPN). They are quite nice. Hopefully Analogue releases the DAC soon.

[RetrogamerX]

 

I think the EUR version looks best next to all of those, but that's just my preference of course.

 

I do as well. I'm very happy I ordered the white and gray, but tbh as long as I have the mega sg that's all that matters.

[derFunkenstein]

Are we taking bets on what they'll announce in 2019? Also, what'll it be called? Here's some fun speculation:

 

Duo Tg (PC Engine/Turbo Duo)

Mega Sd (Sega CD with *ahem* different storage methods available)

Nt Mini 2 (NES, duh)

CMVS Mini (consolized MVS on FPGA, a throwback to their first product)

 

The list of commercially viable products is shrinking with each new release. I don't see the CMVS Mini as a serious suggestion because I don't know that it would sell enough to be viable. The other three probably would, though. Any of those that can do SD loading and multiple cores is an insta-buy.

 

It seems like affordable FPGAs aren't yet able to handle a 3DO, PS1, or Saturn clone.

[zwooky]

Are we taking bets on what they'll announce in 2019? Also, what'll it be called? Here's some fun speculation:

 

Duo Tg (PC Engine/Turbo Duo)

Mega Sd (Sega CD with *ahem* different storage methods available)

Nt Mini 2 (NES, duh)

CMVS Mini (consolized MVS on FPGA, a throwback to their first product)

 

The list of commercially viable products is shrinking with each new release. I don't see the CMVS Mini as a serious suggestion because I don't know that it would sell enough to be viable. The other three probably would, though. Any of those that can do SD loading and multiple cores is an insta-buy.

 

It seems like affordable FPGAs aren't yet able to handle a 3DO, PS1, or Saturn clone.

 

I'll bet they revisit the NT Mini. They'll make a cheaper version more in-line with the SuperNT/MegaSG.

I vote for a CMVS Mini, but I'm hoping Kev will finally release an Intellevision core for the NT Mini.

Edited March 27, 2019 by zwooky

[Lostdotfish]

Are we taking bets on what they'll announce in 2019? Also, what'll it be called? Here's some fun speculation:

 

Duo Tg (PC Engine/Turbo Duo)

Mega Sd (Sega CD with *ahem* different storage methods available)

Nt Mini 2 (NES, duh)

CMVS Mini (consolized MVS on FPGA, a throwback to their first product)

 

The list of commercially viable products is shrinking with each new release. I don't see the CMVS Mini as a serious suggestion because I don't know that it would sell enough to be viable. The other three probably would, though. Any of those that can do SD loading and multiple cores is an insta-buy.

 

It seems like affordable FPGAs aren't yet able to handle a 3DO, PS1, or Saturn clone.

 

I'm sure Kevtris has said he thinks he should be able to squeeze a PSX core into the current FPGA (or similar affordable alternative).

 

I'm just curious as to what they'd do about optical drives... Would it really be worth engineering something destined to fail so soon? Optical drives are not long lived... Unless they made it support slim laptop drives so that replacements should always be available... Optical media in 2019 doesn't sit well with me...

[Zookeeper]

I'd love nice, clean new versions of most 8/16 bit era systems.

 

And I'd really like nice, clean new licensed carts to go with them.

[F34R]

NT Mini is probably the only one out of that list that would make sense from a selling standpoint. Sega CD isn't happening. The library of games worldwide is only 210+/-. Duo Tg would be niche at best.

Edited March 27, 2019 by F34R

[Toth]

I bet a revised Nt Mini would be super easy for them. They would basically just need to update the case. I would imagine it would be easy for Kevtris to put the NES core on the Super Nt or Mega Sg board. There is clearly demand based on Nt Mini prices. It seems like a no-brainer and then just continually sell the Nt Mini, Super NT and Mega SG. I do hope they focus on the DAC and cartridge adapters before any large new projects.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Toth

[derFunkenstein]

I'm sure Kevtris has said he thinks he should be able to squeeze a PSX core into the current FPGA (or similar affordable alternative).

 

I'm just curious as to what they'd do about optical drives... Would it really be worth engineering something destined to fail so soon? Optical drives are not long lived... Unless they made it support slim laptop drives so that replacements should always be available... Optical media in 2019 doesn't sit well with me...

 

As much poop as people (rightly) give Terra Onion, I think the SSDS3 made the right choice with regards to storage. And I don't care if it's Analogue or TerraOnion, I'll buy the first ODE for Sega CD that gets produced, even at SSDS3 prices. Problem being, of course, that the Sega CD was far more complex than the PC Engine CD, even with the added memory carts. Sega's add-on had another M68000, an ASIC for extra graphics capabilities, and the Ricoh PWM chip along with a bunch of extra memory. NEC's systems only added memory, as far as I can tell, which made the SSDS3 simpler to design.

 

Except for possible 32X compatibility (which is very low on my wishlist) I don't get why people want the DAC. Are there that many people who want to plug these systems into CRTs? Talk about tech that's not long for this world...

Edited March 27, 2019 by derFunkenstein

[Kaide]

I wonder how feasible it would be to do an FPGA + ODE where it exposes a USB port letting people use a CD/DVD drive or memory stick.

 

That’s really what I’d be interested in.

[F34R]

Just to mention it since it was brought up already, but if they used the same shipping co., then they went cheap on the packing. Wrapped in bubble wrap with paper stuffed around that. Pretty lame considering the packing has been really nice up until this release; and yet the charges are the same. /shrugs

[killersquirel]

I also got the wrong button color. I ordered the japan style and got the european style. One thing I was a little surprised about was the lack of an option to have more sprites on screen without flicker. I wonder if this will be implented in a firmware update? I have the MiSTer and both the Genesis and Master System cores offer that feature. I would love to get it on the Mega SG as well.

[Kismet]

Are we taking bets on what they'll announce in 2019? Also, what'll it be called? Here's some fun speculation:

 

Duo Tg (PC Engine/Turbo Duo)

Mega Sd (Sega CD with *ahem* different storage methods available)

Nt Mini 2 (NES, duh)

CMVS Mini (consolized MVS on FPGA, a throwback to their first product)

 

The list of commercially viable products is shrinking with each new release. I don't see the CMVS Mini as a serious suggestion because I don't know that it would sell enough to be viable. The other three probably would, though. Any of those that can do SD loading and multiple cores is an insta-buy.

 

It seems like affordable FPGAs aren't yet able to handle a 3DO, PS1, or Saturn clone.

 

Analogue should just update the NT Mini without the analog video output. I'm not sure a 4K/8K model is justified, but it would be kinda nice to see if a 1080p to 4K/8K output scaler can be devised to connect HDMI 2.0 panels and get the same low-latency input.

 

It's unlikely we will see any of the CD systems visited since the copy protection features would require more than just RE'ing the system chips, it would require making new drives, and RE'ing the drive firmware. Except maybe the Turbo Duo's CD or CDi's unit which is nothing special and can probably use an off-the-shelf USB DVD-ROM via ASPI. For any other disc-based unit, there would need to be a rip step, thus requiring a drive that can read the original media, reject copied media, and then just emulate the disc from that point. It would also allow the console part of the hardware to straight up offer accelerated load time for titles that didn't stream things from the disc. Since the condition of "disc" media is typically more of a concern than carts, it's also easier to justify asking developers if they want to offer their game as supported on the hardware by selling disc downloads, or re-wrap the disc without sony/sega/etc's boot code so no BIOS ends up being required.

 

Like the path of least resistance is to create something that doesn't require the original bios or boot code, and simply jumps past that on a ISO, but you might run into more clever copy protection techniques. If it's possible to find some software developers that want to re-release their disc-media games without having to go through the console maker, this would be a much easier selling point. But that might invite annoying levels of DRM so watch what you wish for. However it also would allow such devs to just re-release the games on in-expensive SD cards or sd-card images, put everything they have on it, and put a "menu boot" program on it, nothing fancy.

 

Even if it might be possible to FPGA the Sega CD, Playstation, Turbo duo, 3DO or CDi without the drive. The BIOS requirement is going to be an issue. Sure it's possible to clean-room RE new BIOS but, that doesn't guarantee software will be compatible. But it might not have to, it just has to be sold that way. If someone has the means to dump/acquire their own BIOS images then they're not going to be stopped by this.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Kismet

[Kismet]

 

As much poop as people (rightly) give Terra Onion, I think the SSDS3 made the right choice with regards to storage. And I don't care if it's Analogue or TerraOnion, I'll buy the first ODE for Sega CD that gets produced, even at SSDS3 prices. Problem being, of course, that the Sega CD was far more complex than the PC Engine CD, even with the added memory carts. Sega's add-on had another M68000, an ASIC for extra graphics capabilities, and the Ricoh PWM chip along with a bunch of extra memory. NEC's systems only added memory, as far as I can tell, which made the SSDS3 simpler to design.

 

Except for possible 32X compatibility (which is very low on my wishlist) I don't get why people want the DAC. Are there that many people who want to plug these systems into CRTs? Talk about tech that's not long for this world...

 

It's not an unreasonable thing to try and build a "cd-rom addon emulator" the issue with that, is that it's always seen as a piracy device, even if the intent of many of such devices are rather a way to preserve the console once the optical drive wears out. Also no laptops are being sold with CD-ROM's in the last 3 years, so manufacturers are really desiring to get rid of them and mechanical hard drives so they can sell their "thin and light" experience to all models.

 

And yes, some people do want CRT support, even if no CRT's are still being made. There are plenty of cheap/free CRT's out there if people want them and haven't been smashed for their copper windings.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Kismet

[CZroe]

And yes, some people do want CRT support, even if no CRT's are still being made. There are plenty of cheap/free CRT's out there if people want them and haven't been smashed for their copper windings.

In particular, he’s probably not considering pro/twitch gamers who demand the lowest latency (more than just nostalgia). Edited March 27, 2019 by CZroe

[LewisD]

Id like to see Analogue make a Neo-Geo next (Neo Sk?), but after spending a lot of time playing TG16/PC Engine on MiSTer, I wouldnt mind a Turbo Nc with support for PCE/TG16/Supergrafix and external PCE-CDs add-ons.

[CZroe]

Id like to see Analogue make a Neo-Geo next (Neo Sk?), but after spending a lot of time playing TG16/PC Engine on MiSTer, I wouldnt mind a Turbo Nc with support for PCE/TG16/Supergrafix and external PCE-CDs add-ons.

MiSTer and UpperGrafx are big reasons NOT to make one, unfortunately.

 

Both have lossless digital video and load games from the SD card. If UpperGrafx decides to make a UGX-03 it’s very likely to function as a Plug’n’Play SuperGrafx upgrade, since they’ve already replicated the video chip in FPGA and really just need a bigger FPGA to replicate two of them. IOW, there’s already two direct competitors in this space that both offer lossless digital video and FPGA. We already have options for people who care about original hardware and those who don’t. Heck, the people who don’t care about digital video or would use the analog adapter anyway have a third FPGA option: Super SD System 3. There’s yet ANOTHER one in development from KonamiGood (HuDebug) which can run CD-ROM² titles on a TurboExpress through the HuCard slot!

 

I’d like to see an Analogue Nt Mini MkII or Nt Max, perhaps with Super Nt functionality rolled in. Pie in the sky: Dock it with the Mega Sg Sega CD slot and let it use the Mega Sg cart adapters for non-“Nt” platforms. Dual FPGAs working together?! Time for Neo Geo!

 

More seriously though, they’re definitely working their way toward an Analogue Neo Sk at some point. Wonder if they could roll some other platforms in with it that aren’t so marketable on their own. An Analogue X perhaps? More pie in the sky: NGCD, Jag+JagCD, PCE+CD-ROM², CD-i, SegaCD, 3DO, etc, all docked into the Mega Sg. Kevtris will be busy for the next 10+ years!

Edited March 28, 2019 by CZroe

[LewisD]

MiSTer and UpperGrafx are big reasons NOT to make one, unfortunately.

 

Both have lossless digital video and load games from the SD card. If UpperGrafx decides to make a UGX-03 its very likely to function as a PlugnPlay SuperGrafx upgrade, since theyve already replicated the video chip in FPGA and really just need a bigger FPGA to replicate two of them. IOW, theres already two direct competitors in this space that both offer lossless digital video and FPGA. We already have options for people who care about original hardware and those who down. Heck, the people who dont care about digital video or would use the analog adapter anyway have a third FPGA option: Super SD System 3. Theres yet ANOTHER one in development from KonamiGood (HuDebug) which can run CD-ROM² titles on a TurboExpress through the HuCard slot!

 

Id like to see an Analogue Nt Mini MkII or Nt Max, perhaps with Super Nt functionality rolled in. Pie in the sky: Dock it with the Mega Sg Sega CD slot and let it use the Mega Sg cart adapters for non-Nt platforms. Dual FPGAs working together?! Time for Neo Geo!

 

More seriously though, theyre definitely working their way toward and Analogue Neo Sk at some point. Wonder if they could roll some other platforms in with it that arent so marketable on their own. An Analogue X perhaps? More pie in the sky: NGCD, Jag+JagCD, PCE+CD-ROM², CD-i, SegaCD, 3DO, etc, all docked into the Mega Sg. Kevtris will be busy for the next 10+ years!

I get your point about competition in the PCE/TG16 space, but Genesis was on MiSTer long before the Mega Sg came out, and the Mega Sg blows away the Genesis MiSTer core due to Kevtris magic and the sheer customization of the interface. I definitely think there is more of a mainstream market for an Analogue PCE/TG16 release.

[CZroe]

I get your point about competition in the PCE/TG16 space, but Genesis was on MiSTer long before the Mega Sg came out, and the Mega Sg blows away the Genesis MiSTer core due to Kevtris magic and the sheer customization of the interface. I definitely think there is more of a mainstream market for an Analogue PCE/TG16 release.

Well, yes, but there was still no solution for digital video with Sega CD and the 68000 core used back then left a lot to be desired. Mega Sg definitely has more mainstream appeal than PCE/TG16 outside of Japan, but perhaps they might want more interest from Japan with their next product?

 

ElectronAsh is working on bringing PCE/TG16 CD-ROM² to MiSTer, which is interesting because he was originally working on his own PCE/TG16 ODE until he saw that UGX-02/SSDSys3 beat him to it. He abandoned it but then revived it for MiSTer, hoping to make the ODE portion portable between cores. The hope is that someone will use it for a Sega CD core but, being open source, that also means we could get a straight-up stand-alone SegaCD FPGA from someone once it’s reverse-engineered for MiSTer. I hope someone REALLY motivated and capable steps up to the plate because Sega CD is going to be about as hard as the Mega Sg even once you have the ODE.

Edited March 28, 2019 by CZroe

[zetastrike]

Has anyone here attached their Mega SG to their Sega CD yet? I did it today and I really had to force it to slot in the connector. And it also didn't rest on the Sega CD, even with the pad. It was actually jutting upward at an angle. It didn't seem all that safe of a connection to me.

[Jagasian]

My vote is for Analogue to release a lower cost, plastic shell NT Mini and call it the NT Micro.

[CZroe]

Has anyone here attached their Mega SG to their Sega CD yet? I did it today and I really had to force it to slot in the connector. And it also didn't rest on the Sega CD, even with the pad. It was actually jutting upward at an angle. It didn't seem all that safe of a connection to me.

Your pad likely moved slightly. I found it difficult to install with the pad nestled in the corner specifically because the rubber under the Mega Sg grabs it and wants to move it as the Sg slots into the CD unit. I had the exact same problem with it jutting upwards until I lifted it slightly and re-aligned the mat underneath. Edited March 28, 2019 by CZroe

[zetastrike]

Your pad likely moved slightly. I found it difficult to install with the pad nestled in the corner specifically because the rubber under the Mega Sg grabs it and wants to move it as the Sg slots into the CD unit. I had the exact same problem with it jutting upwards until I lifted it slightly and re-aligned the mat underneath.

 

Thanks. I have the mat only under the left half of the Mega SG and that allowed it to slot in evenly, while still supporting it.