FPGA Based Videogame System

[CZroe]

Probably of interest to other Mega Sg owners who were interested in the 8bitdo Genesis/Megadrive products:

 

Oh, man... I held off on the 8Bitdo DIY kit for Sega 6-button controllers because they were very clear that it only works with Japanese-exclusive SJ-6000 controllers. They even made sure not to say “Genesis” and insist that it “only” works with the SJ-6000 Megadrive controllers... which made no sense because Sega’s 16-bit console was less successful there than just about anywhere else it managed to compete, making the SJ-6000 relatively obscure. Seems weird to focus on that instead of the MK-1653 or something when doing so would drastically restrict the number of DIY boards they can sell.

 

Well, GOOD NEWS! It works with the MK-1653 after all. The internals are identical to an SK-6000 despite the size differences. It’s actually a very unfortunate error for their site that has been driving away business, including mine.

 

Even more good news:

I see that they discount the Genesis Retro Receiver when you bundle them. It’s only $3 off but that was reason enough to get them there instead of Amazon. I ordered a bunch of accessories and USA shipping defaulted to DHL at $21. Removing items from my cart didn’t show a discount until it was almost empty when it dropped to $18. I released that it was not defaulting to the cheapest option, China ePacket, which dropped shipping down to $7 for everything I originally had in my cart. Because it was $7 even when I got rid of the RetroReceivers and only had the DIY board in my cart, you may as well add one for $17.

 

Unfortunately, it only lets you bundle one Retro Receiver per DIY board, so you can’t get two of the receivers with one SJ-6000/MK-1653 DIY board. I had planned to get two receivers and one DIY board from their shop and a Bluetooth M30 from Amazon (8bitdo’s shop only carries the DIY controller products, receivers, and a USB hub), so this out a kink in things. I ended up getting two DIY boards.

[RetrogamerX]

I found something interesting regarding Genesis. I recently upgraded and purchased a Mega Everdrive X7 and downloaded the smoke monster pack to put on it. In the section "4 Color Enhancements and Restoration" I found a hacked Altered Beast rom with the name "Altered Beast Arcade Voice+Alternate Style (Hack) Linkuei v1, Pyron v2" and tried playing it on the Mega Everdrive X7 and all I got was a blue screen. When I tried it on my MiSTer set up the rom works great with zero problems. I tried the rom out on the Mega SG when they released the jailbreak and I also get a blue screen on that as well.

 

 

I just now tried it on my Everdrive X7 and it works fine for me. I have the newest rev X7 from stone age gamer

[RetrogamerX]

Probably of interest to other Mega Sg owners who were interested in the 8bitdo Genesis/Megadrive products:

 

Oh, man... I held off on the 8Bitdo DIY kit for Sega 6-button controllers because they were very clear that it only works with Japanese-exclusive SJ-6000 controllers. They even made sure not to say “Genesis” and insist that it “only” works with the SJ-6000 Megadrive controllers... which made no sense because Sega’s 16-bit console was less successful there than just about anywhere else it managed to compete, making the SJ-6000 relatively obscure. Seems weird to focus on that instead of the MK-1653 or something when doing so would drastically restrict the number of DIY boards they can sell.

 

Well, GOOD NEWS! It works with the MK-1653 after all. The internals are identical to an SK-6000 despite the size differences. It’s actually a very unfortunate error for their site that has been driving away business, including mine.

 

Even more good news:

I see that they discount the Genesis Retro Receiver when you bundle them. It’s only $3 off but that was reason enough to get them there instead of Amazon. I ordered a bunch of accessories and USA shipping defaulted to DHL at $21. Removing items from my cart didn’t show a discount until it was almost empty when it dropped to $18. I released that it was not defaulting to the cheapest option, China ePacket, which dropped shipping down to $7 for everything I originally had in my cart. Because it was $7 even when I got rid of the RetroReceivers and only had the DIY board in my cart, you may as well add one for $17.

 

Unfortunately, it only lets you bundle one Retro Receiver per DIY board, so you can’t get two of the receivers with one SJ-6000/MK-1653 DIY board. I had planned to get two receivers and one DIY board from their shop and a Bluetooth M30 from Amazon (8bitdo’s shop only carries the DIY controller products, receivers, and a USB hub), so this out a kink in things. I ended up getting two DIY boards.

 

 

I've known about the MK-1653 since it released. I emailed 8bitdo support and asked if the MK-1653 would work and they said yes. While I really like the original 6 button MK-1653 now that the m30 2.4ghz is out I slightly like the m30 more. It just feels better in my hands.

[Nigoli]

Okay. I feel like there is definitely something wrong with the way Mega Sg outputs on certain TVs now. Because on my 2015 1080p Vizio HDTV E43-C2, it refuses to fill the whole picture both in 720p and 1080p modes.

 

The Super Nt is the same way with just 720p mode. 1080p is also filling the entire screen fine on a Super Nt.

 

I must also mention that the Nt Mini never had an issue like this when I tried 720p and 1080p resolutions.

 

Update: Nevermind about the 1080p mode. Forgot to switch the height to 1200, only then it'll fill the entire screen on a Mega Sg. Going to make a video to demonstrate my problem.

 

https://youtu.be/GAf_q9odY8Y

 

The height is 720 for 720p mode on the Super Nt and the Mega Sg.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nigoli

[SegaSnatcher]

Okay. I feel like there is definitely something wrong with the way Mega Sg outputs on certain TVs now. Because on my 2015 1080p Vizio HDTV E43-C2, it refuses to fill the whole picture both in 720p and 1080p modes.

 

The Super Nt is the same way with just 720p mode. 1080p is also filling the entire screen fine on a Super Nt.

 

I must also mention that the Nt Mini never had an issue like this when I tried 720p and 1080p resolutions.

 

Update: Nevermind about the 1080p mode. Forgot to switch the height to 1200, only then it'll fill the entire screen on a Mega Sg. Going to make a video to demonstrate my problem.

1200 height will actually crop some information on the top and bottom. Use these FBX settings for 1080p if you don't use scanlines.

 

-- fill screen, square for 320

* set horizontal pos=18, vertical pos=48

320: 1640x1152 enable HV

256: 1497x1152 enable HV

[Nigoli]

 

1200 height will actually crop some information on the top and bottom. Use these FBX settings for 1080p if you don't use scanlines.

 

-- fill screen, square for 320

* set horizontal pos=18, vertical pos=48

320: 1640x1152 enable HV

256: 1497x1152 enable HV

 

You're missing the point. I don't want to use interpolation, and I don't want my screen cropped. I wish to see everything and have a perfect integer scale. My scaler settings are not the problem here.

 

720p for Super Nt and Mega Sg should fill the screen. The TV is not that old. 720p seems to work fine on another display I've tried. The Nt Mini worked fine like this too.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nigoli

[SegaSnatcher]

You're missing the point. I don't want to use interpolation, and I don't want my screen cropped. I wish to see everything and have a perfect integer scale. My scaler settings are not the problem here.

 

720p for Super Nt and Mega Sg should fill the screen. The TV is not that old. 720p seems to work fine on another display I've tried. The Nt Mini worked fine like this too.

Well you didn't say that now did you.

 

Also, it doesn't fill the screen because SNES and Genesis only uses 224 lines of a 240p signal. So when you triple that you are only really seeing 672 lines in a 720p box.

 

If you are that picky there probably is an overscan setting on your TV you can turn on.

Edited April 5, 2019 by SegaSnatcher

[Nigoli]

Well you didn't say that now did you.

 

Also, it doesn't fill the screen because SNES and Genesis only uses 224 lines of a 240p signal. So when you triple that you are only really seeing 672 lines in a 720p box.

 

If you are that picky there probably is an overscan setting on your TV you can turn on.

I did. The last post I made when I posted my scaler settings. Wasn't my post talking about 720p mode obvious to begin with? Also I posted about the Super Nt having this issue last December. But even then you still posted the same FBX overscan interpolation nonsense I didn't want to use and didn't apply to my problem. I wasn't asking for FBX's scaler settings :\

 

This seems like an issue to me with the Super Nt and Mega Sg that could be tweaked for 720p mode with certain displays. The Nt Mini seems fine with the display I was trying to use. I refuse to believe my TV is a problem. If you do any slight adjustments to the TV to fill up the screen size, it's no longer pixels squared. I can see the energy bar peg by peg and see that it's inconsistent. I'm trying to post about the issue I'm having so that maybe I could play in 720p mode on this display without black boarders like the Nt Mini.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nigoli

[SegaSnatcher]

I did. The last post I made when I posted my scaler settings. Wasn't my post talking about 720p mode obvious to begin with? Also I posted about the Super Nt having this issue last December. But even then you still posted the same FBX overscan interpolation nonsense I didn't want to use. :\

 

This seems like an issue to me with the Super Nt and Mega Sg that could be tweaked for 720p mode with certain displays. The Nt Mini seems fine with the display I was trying to use. I refuse to believe my TV is a problem. If you do any slight adjustments to the TV to fill up the screen size, it's no longer pixels squared. I can see the energy bar peg by peg and see that it's inconsistent.

Even with 720p you still need to use at least horizontal interpolation if you want correct aspect ratio without shimmering.

 

I just told you why 720p doesn't fill your TV from top to bottom, because SNES + Genesis doesn't have 240 lines of picture information, only 224.

 

The only way you can get Genesis or SNES to fill your screen vertically in 720p is to set your TV to overscan.

[Nigoli]

Even with 720p you still need to use at least horizontal interpolation if you want correct aspect ratio without shimmering.

 

I just told you why 720p doesn't fill your TV from top to bottom, because SNES + Genesis doesn't have 240 lines of picture information, only 224.

 

The only way you can get Genesis or SNES to fill your screen vertically in 720p is to set your TV to overscan.

Then why does my other display fill the entire screen and not on this TV for 720p without any interpolation?

 

 

These are the settings I use on 720p. There is no shimmering and interpolation is not enabled. My other display fills the screen but my other TV does not. The Nt Mini doesn't have this issue along with it's cores. I want to use 720p because I want to see everything without interpolation.

 

Maybe somebody else can explain or tell me if they're having issues like I'm having.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nigoli

[brentonius]

Just wondering whats wrong with interpolation? I once thought it added lag but then was told it did not.

 

Im curious what the downside to interpolation is

[SegaSnatcher]

Then why does my other display fill the entire screen and not on this TV for 720p without any interpolation?

 

 

These are the settings I use on 720p. There is no shimmering and interpolation is not enabled. My other display fills the screen but my other TV does not. The Nt Mini doesn't have this issue along with it's cores. I want to use 720p because I want to see everything without interpolation.

If you have a TV that fills Super NT or Mega SG vertically in 720p mode its because that TV has some kind of overscan setting turned on. The Super NT and Mega Sg are pumping out 720p accurately, it is not a bug. The black borders are 100% normal. NES is a bit different because it tends to show some picture information within all 240 lines, a lot of the time its junk that you weren't ever supposed to see in the first place because a CRT would have applied overscan.

 

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Just wondering whats wrong with interpolation? I once thought it added lag but then was told it did not.

 

Im curious what the downside to interpolation is

It applies a minimal amount of blur, but unless you are sitting like 1ft away from your monitor you are not going to notice it.

[kevtris]

Then why does my other display fill the entire screen and not on this TV for 720p without any interpolation?

 

 

These are the settings I use on 720p. There is no shimmering and interpolation is not enabled. My other display fills the screen but my other TV does not. The Nt Mini doesn't have this issue along with it's cores. I want to use 720p because I want to see everything without interpolation.

 

Maybe somebody else can explain or tell me if they're having issues like I'm having.

It's because the nt mini has 240 lines of picture information. 240*3 = 720. The msg and snt only output 224 lines (well most of the time, and for NTSC msg always). This means a 3x scale will give you 672 lines like mentioned above, thus you will get some letterboxing. You will have to use vertical interpolation if you wish to exactly fill the screen, or you could chop some rows of pixels off your monitor, I guess. (not responsible for loss of warranty, sanity or marriage).

 

There's simply no way to exactly fill the screen with an integer scale vertically for this reason. It's a mathematical impossibility.

[brentonius]

It applies a minimal amount of blur, but unless you are sitting like 1ft away from your monitor you are not going to notice it.

Ah thanks for the explanation. I think noticed it but figured that was just my TV upscaling 1080p to 4K. For me thats no big deal.

[spoonman]

The ColecoVision and the Sega SG-1000 are virtually identical, sharing the same CPU, the same VDP, and the same PSG chip.

 

I'm still very surprised to see CV core support on the Sg. Sure the technical specs are similar, but as the FPGA can pretty much be anything 8-bit - 16-bit, I just didn't expect it. Not that I'm complaining. The CV is one of my favorite systems and the system I really started appreciating video taking with.

 

Maybe we'll get the Atari 2600 core too since the Coleco Expansion Module #1 can play Atari VCS carts. Then maybe we'll get the Atari 7800 since that is backwards compatible with the 2600. OK, maybe that's a stretch.

 

On a related note.. Anyone want to buy a new Telegames Dina system?

 

 

 

 

Exactly, being able to use the M30 2.4ghz is 100X better than that crappy original Coleco controller.

 

I'd still like to have the option to use original CV controllers. One of my favorite games, Mouse Trap, kind of needs the numerical buttons, and the overlay comes in handy as well.

 

 

 

I just see it as part of the experience. I think you needed to have grown up playing it that way as a kid to have any desire to want to play it that way now though. It would also open the possibly to use other CV accessories such as the Expansion Module #2 (steering wheel), Roller Controller, Super Action Controllers (needed for Rocky, Front Line, SA Baseball, Football, etc.)

 

 

I'd also love a way to use original CV carts on the Sg so I can play my original carts on it, but I don't think that'll happen.

[Nigoli]

If you have a TV that fills Super NT or Mega SG vertically in 720p mode its because that TV has some kind of overscan setting turned on. The Super NT and Mega Sg are pumping out 720p accurately, it is not a bug. The black borders are 100% normal. NES is a bit different because it tends to show some picture information within all 240 lines, a lot of the time its junk that you weren't ever supposed to see in the first place because a CRT would have applied overscan.

 

It's because the nt mini has 240 lines of picture information. 240*3 = 720. The msg and snt only output 224 lines (well most of the time, and for NTSC msg always). This means a 3x scale will give you 672 lines like mentioned above, thus you will get some letterboxing. You will have to use vertical interpolation if you wish to exactly fill the screen, or you could chop some rows of pixels off your monitor, I guess. (not responsible for loss of warranty, sanity or marriage).

 

There's simply no way to exactly fill the screen with an integer scale vertically for this reason. It's a mathematical impossibility.

Thank you guys for the explanation. It finally sunk in and I feel slightly stupid now. The Nt Mini is so perfect to me still and it's just preferable than the Mega Sg. Even with Master System games the way I use the 720p modes. Maybe it's the memory of the Nt Mini and how great it was when it came out.

 

I've been thinking about making the jump to 4K and just afraid of having all my older stuff looking bad until a true 4K scaler and the DAC happens. Guess I'm going to have to give the FBX stuff a shot now.

I cannot wait for Copy Genesis.

 

[CZroe]

 

Thank you guys for the explanation. It finally sunk in and I feel slightly stupid now. The Nt Mini is so perfect to me still and it's just preferable than the Mega Sg. Even with Master System games the way I use the 720p modes. Maybe it's the memory of the Nt Mini and how great it was when it came out.

 

I've been thinking about making the jump to 4K and just afraid of having all my older stuff looking bad until a true 4K scaler and the DAC happens. Guess I'm going to have to give the FBX stuff a shot now.

I cannot wait for Copy Genesis.

 

I guess my confusion comes from you wanting an integer scale on a 1080p display with 720p without borders. You’d need to window 1080p inside 1200p (5x) for doing that without borders on the top and bottom. Edited April 5, 2019 by CZroe

[Andromeda Stardust]

With auto detect region unchecked:

 

If you set it to NTSC games will play at 60hz. If you set it to PAL games will play at 50hz. You should match the resolution setting to avoid judder i.e. PAL-1080p50, NTSC-1080p60.

 

As to the correct speed thats a more complicated issue. Many games were not optimised to account for the speed differences so play slower on PAL systems and even have slower sound so setting these to NTSC can be considered correct.

 

Some games are fully PAL optimised so leaving these on PAL is correct. Set to NTSC they run too fast or glitchy.

 

Most PAL exclusives should probably be run at 50hz but its not always easy to tell and they often run fine at 60hz

 

Some games are partially optimised i.e. the sound plays correctly but the gameplay is slow. These will be neither correct at 50hz or 60hz.

 

Its a nightmare tbh

Psycho Piball is PAL exclusive and played great at 60Hz on my Genesis. Ditto for Micro Machines II.

[Enragedwhale]

Psycho Piball is PAL exclusive and played great at 60Hz on my Genesis. Ditto for Micro Machines II.

Oh for sure, that was kinda my point. You would think PAL exclusives would be best at 50hz but without knowing what the developers actually intended or what dev kits they used it is hard to really know for sure.

 

MM games are too fast at 60hz IMO though.

 

At least the MSG gets rid of the aspect ratio issues, although again who is to say PAL region developers didnt intend their games to be played in a letterbox format?

Edited April 5, 2019 by Enragedwhale

[Toth]

Probably of interest to other Mega Sg owners who were interested in the 8bitdo Genesis/Megadrive products:

 

Oh, man... I held off on the 8Bitdo DIY kit for Sega 6-button controllers because they were very clear that it only works with Japanese-exclusive SJ-6000 controllers. They even made sure not to say “Genesis” and insist that it “only” works with the SJ-6000 Megadrive controllers... which made no sense because Sega’s 16-bit console was less successful there than just about anywhere else it managed to compete, making the SJ-6000 relatively obscure. Seems weird to focus on that instead of the MK-1653 or something when doing so would drastically restrict the number of DIY boards they can sell.

 

Well, GOOD NEWS! It works with the MK-1653 after all. The internals are identical to an SK-6000 despite the size differences. It’s actually a very unfortunate error for their site that has been driving away business, including mine.

 

Even more good news:

I see that they discount the Genesis Retro Receiver when you bundle them. It’s only $3 off but that was reason enough to get them there instead of Amazon. I ordered a bunch of accessories and USA shipping defaulted to DHL at $21. Removing items from my cart didn’t show a discount until it was almost empty when it dropped to $18. I released that it was not defaulting to the cheapest option, China ePacket, which dropped shipping down to $7 for everything I originally had in my cart. Because it was $7 even when I got rid of the RetroReceivers and only had the DIY board in my cart, you may as well add one for $17.

 

Unfortunately, it only lets you bundle one Retro Receiver per DIY board, so you can’t get two of the receivers with one SJ-6000/MK-1653 DIY board. I had planned to get two receivers and one DIY board from their shop and a Bluetooth M30 from Amazon (8bitdo’s shop only carries the DIY controller products, receivers, and a USB hub), so this out a kink in things. I ended up getting two DIY boards.

Have you tried it yet? There are a couple reddit posts that say it works but the mode button is either really tight or doesn't work. Maybe there were very small variations in the MK1653 for some reason? I have a kit coming but had a SJ6000 to use it in. Maybe I will try it in a MK1653 first and see how it fits.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Toth

[vanfanel]

I *think* I found an incompatibility (not mapper related this time). There's this homebrew SMB conversion for Genesis:

http://sonicvaan.sonicgamesdimension.net/mirror/rare/MULS_1.4.2.BIN

 

Well, on the MegaSG it does not display any tiles, but only sprites. Any idea on what's going on here?

Edited April 5, 2019 by vanfanel

[zetastrike]

I *think* I found an incompatibility (not mapper related this time). There's this homebrew SMB conversion for Genesis:

http://sonicvaan.sonicgamesdimension.net/mirror/rare/MULS_1.4.2.BIN

 

Well, on the MegaSG it does not display any tiles, but only sprites. Any idea on what's going on here?

I encountered that too. I almost reported it, but I reset the MSG and booted that rom again and it worked perfectly.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727AZ using Tapatalk

[CZroe]

 

 

I've known about the MK-1653 since it released. I emailed 8bitdo support and asked if the MK-1653 would work and they said yes. While I really like the original 6 button MK-1653 now that the m30 2.4ghz is out I slightly like the m30 more. It just feels better in my hands.

It’s a shame that they don’t update the site. I’m finding lots of other people who are under the impression that they’d need to order SJ-6000 controllers including many who say that the incorrect “requirement” priced them out.

 

I’m getting the M30 as well but I wanted the Bluetooth version first... and that meant getting Retro Receivers. I only wanted to convert one Sega 6-button Arcade Pad but the deal on Retro Receivers was tied 1-to-1 and didn’t cost any extra to ship, which convinced me to do two. With two BT MK-1653 controllers, I might as well skip the BT M30 and go straight to the non-BT M30 with its bundled receiver and extra Mega Sg functionality (dedicated menu key).

 

Actually, does anyone know if the BT M30 has that same Mega Sg feature with the Retro Receiver? I assume “no” since it’s for a lot more than just Mega Sg and the same button probably needs to be functional for something else on those other BT systems.

 

Have you tried it yet? There are a couple reddit posts that say it works but the mode button is either really tight or doesn't work. Maybe there were very small variations in the MK1653 for some reason? I have a kit coming but had a SJ6000 to use it in. Maybe I will try it in a MK1653 first and see how it fits.

Just ordered it this morning so it’s not here yet but I found a couple people who have tried it. Neither mentioned difficulty with the Mode button. Scarlett Sprites on YouTube had completely different problems (FW and battery) but didn’t even notice/acknowledge he was fitting it into the “wrong” controller so he never said anything about that. A couple over-priced eBay listings explicitly say it fits both SJ-6000 and MK-1653 but the 8Bitdo shop itself still says “SJ-6000 Only.”

 

ETA Prime installed his into an MK-1653 as well and explicitly said it was for both ~7 months ago, but I obviously wasn’t going back to those videos when I thought I had my answer based on the website. They’ve really gotta fix that!

[+eebuckeye]

I found a bug with Montezuma's Revenge on the SMS - tried with the standard and JB firmware. I can not jump onto the marked platform... you fall straight through and I tried any times. Anyone else see this?