FPGA Based Videogame System

[Thomas83Lin]

Has anyone got the Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 2 working with the jailbreak firmware it just shows a black screen for me happens on roms and carts.

S&K locked on with Sonic 2 using real carts works fine here on 7.3 jailbreak firmware

[Nigoli]

The only issues I’ve had on some games is when using the game genie tool on the Mega Sg the save states sometimes don’t work on Mega Everdrive X7. It’s basically hit and miss. When you turn off game genie it works fine again.

EEPROM type games also has save states disabled as well.

[CZroe]

FYI to those of you hoping to use 8BitDo’s 8BitDIY kit on the new RetroBit licensed Genesis controllers to save money or avoid gutting original controllers:

 

Other than the logo, packaging, and new color option (clear blue), these controllers are 100% identical to the cheaper Hyperkin GN6 “premium” Genesis-style that’s been around since at least 2015. I’m positive that it’s the same company making Old Skool’s “PGS - Pro Gamer Series” controllers too.

 

I just installed an 8BitDo 8BitDIY kit in my new/unused GN6 that I found at a flea market years ago. Same PCB as RetroBit and everything, including the tight-fitting charge port reported with the RetroBit controllers by Scarlett Sprites here:

https://youtu.be/_mtJun0LpE4

 

I had to partially insert at a diagonal, turn it straight, and blindly line it up with the port before pushing it the rest of the way in. Blindly lining it up is dangerous when you are using force to get it through the plastic shell, so be EXTREMELY careful. You might only have to do this once. I left it charging so the plastic may dent out a little on either side and I might not have to file or nibble anything. Looks like it needs a particularly long microUSB tip like the one that’s bundled so that’s even more reason to be extremely careful.

 

Also, don’t forget that Genesis Retro Receivers are a few bucks cheaper when you order them with your 8BitDo DIY kit.

 

Another thing to note:

Hyperkin also sells a USB version that doesn’t seem to have the extra buttons. Unlike RetroBit’s USB version, these are likely to remain compatible with 8BitDo’s kit.

Edited April 24, 2019 by CZroe

[BrianC]

I dunno. My Hyperkin 6 button is different and has odd behavior on Forgotten Worlds when the mode button is held (fire button also pauses the game), which isn't the case with my retro-bit controller. It also doesn't press down in the middle as much as the retro-bit (though I heard some press down in the middle more easily).

Edited April 25, 2019 by BrianC

[CZroe]

I dunno. My Hyperkin 6 button is different and has odd behavior on Forgotten Worlds when the mode button is held (fire button also pauses the game), which isn't the case with my retro-bit controller. It also doesn't press down in the middle as much as the retro-bit (though I heard some press down in the middle more easily).

Your “Hyperkin 6 button” or your Hyperkin Premium GN6? I gotta ask because the Premium GN6 isn’t their only 6-button Genesis controller. They also sell this kind:

https://m.booksamillion.com/p/Sega-Genesis-Controller/Hyperkin/F813048011569

 

That said, it looks like there have been revisions to these over the years. Original pads had rubber membranes that covered the entire underside of the buttons and D-pad with a lip to keep small amounts of liquid from getting deeper into the controller. My GN6 has stingy rubber membranes that don’t cover the entire underside of the buttons or D-pad... unlike the newer pads on RetroBit controllers which look more like the originals. Mine was made in 2017 according to the QA sticker covering one of the screws.

 

 

Comparing the board from Scarlet Sprites’ video and my own, they are definitely from the same manufacturer. Same COB epoxy blob for the encoding/shift register logic, same pads with the double-dots and four fingers, same orientation and interleave order, etc. Scarlet Sprites’ says “RetroBit” on the PCB but it’s clear that they went to the same controller maker. Heck, that QA sticker covering a screw on my Hyperkin was exactly like the one I had to punch through on my RetroBit NES dogbone controller as soon as I opened the box (they didn’t route the cord through the winding posts, stressing the board connections directly). It was exactly the same as the QA sticker on my “Old Skool” brand TurboPad replica controllers too.

 

Even the unbranded/generic Sega Saturn controller I recently got from eBay is available with the branding of your choice when you buy enough of them (they proudly promote it on eBay and AliExpress). It’s clear that there is one major retro controller manufacturer customizing these for just about everyone. It looks like RetroBit had the right idea and made sure to get these with the right size rubber pads, but I wonder if they only did that because it would be visible through the new color option.

 

 

Notice that his RetroBit board was also made in 2017? September. Mine was June. After they were done producing Hyperkins, it seems they switched gears for RetroBit. That’s really a design date on the PCB (not a production date) so either they made enough to last and did it all at once to avoid retooling or they didn’t have to change anything when they ordered up a new batch. Is RetroBit running preorders for old merch?

 

I guess I jumped the gun saying that they were “100% identical,” since I hadn’t even looked at the rubber pads at that point (was on lunch break and headed back to work). Since I just unboxed this GN6 during that same lunch break I don’t even know if the D-Pad plays well. If it doesn’t it could be a deal breaker for many but I still think it’s good to know there’s an even cheaper alternative.

 

Gut original. $$$

 

Gut RetroBit. $$

 

Gut Hyperkin. $

Edited April 25, 2019 by CZroe

[BrianC]

GN6, but older. Bought before 2017.

[funkwad]

Hey folks - Analogue NT Mini QQ - and I'm really sorry if I missed it but...is there any secret / process to cut-over to HDMI on an Analogue NT Mini, that's been predominately RGB/Analogue output -->> to HDMI? For some reason the HDMI plug in and setup on a separate system is not starting up. Any suggestions?

[funkwad]

please disregard previous question on Analogue NT...seems to work upon retry..thx

[Nigoli]

I just installed an 8BitDo 8BitDIY kit in my new/unused GN6 that I found at a flea market years ago. Same PCB as RetroBit and everything, including the tight-fitting charge port reported with the RetroBit controllers by Scarlett Sprites here:

I gave this a shot today when I got my Retrobit Clear Blue controller and a DIY kit I had for months. Didn't work that bad. Thank you for posting this.

 

I ended up using a nail file to the sides and painters tape on the top of the sides in case I stabbed the controller. The only problem is just that loss of the Menu Button and turbo functionality that you get with the M30 controller.

 

I have a Japanese and American official 6 button controllers. So this is nice because those controllers I had were beat up.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Nigoli

[CZroe]

Anyone else kind of annoyed that the RetroReceivers stick out so far? It seems a bit awkward.

 

My friend was playing around yesterday and found that they’d fit perfectly inside a Sega Wireless 6-Button Arcade System receiver with the ports protruding where they should except for two screw posts. I wasn’t about to sacrifice my receiver to do this (especially since the RetroReceiver ports are a bit too short) but I might 3D print something similar. It might as well fill some of the gap on a Sega CD rather than duplicate the look of the receiver exactly.

 

I gave this a shot today when I got my Retrobit Clear Blue controller and a DIY kit I had for months. Didn't work that bad. Thank you for posting this.

 

I ended up using a nail file to the sides and painters tape on the top of the sides in case I stabbed the controller. The only problem is just that loss of the Menu Button and turbo functionality that you get with the M30 controller.

 

I have a Japanese and American official 6 button controllers. So this is nice because those controllers I had were beat up.

No problem. Luckily, Mega Sg recognizes the 6bt pad so Down + Mode is almost as convenient. As few games as there were that used the Mode button in-game, that combo isn’t likely to conflict with anything.

[lame gag]

Anyone else kind of annoyed that the RetroReceivers stick out so far? It seems a bit awkward.

My friend was playing around yesterday and found that they’d fit perfectly inside a Sega Wireless 6-Button Arcade System receiver with the ports protruding where they should except for two screw posts. I wasn’t about to sacrifice my receiver to do this (especially since the RetroReceiver ports are a bit too short) but I might 3D print something similar. It might as well fill some of the gap on a Sega CD rather than duplicate the look of the receiver exactly.

No problem. Luckily, Mega Sg recognizes the 6bt pad so Down + Mode is almost as convenient. As few games as there were that used the Mode button in-game, that combo isn’t likely to conflict with anything.

Where is the option to use the mode button as a hotkey? All I see is START, A, B & C.

[CZroe]

Where is the option to use the mode button as a hotkey? All I see is START, A, B & C.

Down+Mode just works. I didn’t have to enable it, change the hotkey setting, or set it up in any way.

[pcfreak324]

Today I tested a few SMS/SG-1000 games. Some of the larger Korean games (128kb) that were originally ported from MSX don't work. I guess they use a special mapper that is not implemented.

 

I tested Nemesis 2 (Korea) but other games such as F-1 Spirit - The Way to Formula-1 (Korea) (Unl) (Pirate) and Knightmare II - The Maze of Galious (Korea) are probably also affected.

 

Then I found another problem when using the rom "Controllers Test - SMS & Genesis (PD) v1 sverx 2018-01-30.sms": When the SMS core is active, the button A from the Genesis pad is recognized as button C which means that SMS hacks which utilise three buttons (such as the one for Wonder Boy 3) won't work. On a real Genesis more than two buttons are recognized in SMS mode.

[Great Hierophant]

Today I tested a few SMS/SG-1000 games. Some of the larger Korean games (128kb) that were originally ported from MSX don't work. I guess they use a special mapper that is not implemented.

 

I tested Nemesis 2 (Korea) but other games such as F-1 Spirit - The Way to Formula-1 (Korea) (Unl) (Pirate) and Knightmare II - The Maze of Galious (Korea) are probably also affected.

Those have been noted in the Unofficial Supplement that accompanies the jailbreak firmware.

 

 

Then I found another problem when using the rom "Controllers Test - SMS & Genesis (PD) v1 sverx 2018-01-30.sms": When the SMS core is active, the button A from the Genesis pad is recognized as button C which means that SMS hacks which utilise three buttons (such as the one for Wonder Boy 3) won't work. On a real Genesis more than two buttons are recognized in SMS mode.

Three buttons should be recognized in passthrough mode.

[spoonman]

What would be the possibility of having SMS SegaScope 3D games display as stereoscopic 3D output on the Sg?

[Andromeda Stardust]

What would be the possibility of having SMS SegaScope 3D games display as stereoscopic 3D output on the Sg?

frame rate of output is 60hz. Stereoscopic goggles displayed 30hz images.

 

So stereoscopic output would require a frame buffer. The left or right frame would need to be delayed by 1/60 second to be displayed simultaneously, then both fields displayed for two frames (1/30th second).

 

The FPGA needs to be capable of holding two 320x240 pixel frame buffers within memory (instead of one frame buffer for perfect clock modes) and transmit data twice as fast (for 1080p). If bandwidth is an issue, 720p 3d video mode could be utilised instead of 1080p if 1080p is unavailable.

 

Also the hdmi driver needs to support newer standard compared to older 1080p60. I have no idea if this is doable with current firmware/hardware. Only Kevtris can answer that.

[CZroe]

frame rate of output is 60hz. Stereoscopic goggles displayed 30hz images.

 

So stereoscopic output would require a frame buffer. The left or right frame would need to be delayed by 1/60 second to be displayed simultaneously, then both fields displayed for two frames (1/30th second).

 

The FPGA needs to be capable of holding two 320x240 pixel frame buffers within memory (instead of one frame buffer for perfect clock modes) and transmit data twice as fast (for 1080p). If bandwidth is an issue, 720p 3d video mode could be utilised instead of 1080p if 1080p is unavailable.

 

Also the hdmi driver needs to support newer standard compared to older 1080p60. I have no idea if this is doable with current firmware/hardware. Only Kevtris can answer that.

Or you just display each frame twice. 30hz content on 60hz isn’t that hard.

 

Granted, it probably isn’t as easy as I’m making it out to be since things aren’t exact but you might be over-thinking this, especially if we can control the rate of the shutter glasses.

 

Edit: I assume he wants to use original shutter glasses with a MyCard adapter. With no control over the TVs latency there would need to be some way to adjust the shutter glasses to compensate.

Edited May 5, 2019 by CZroe

[Atariboy]

I thought he was talking about 3D capable HDTV's?

[Kaide]

frame rate of output is 60hz. Stereoscopic goggles displayed 30hz images.

 

So stereoscopic output would require a frame buffer. The left or right frame would need to be delayed by 1/60 second to be displayed simultaneously, then both fields displayed for two frames (1/30th second).

 

The FPGA needs to be capable of holding two 320x240 pixel frame buffers within memory (instead of one frame buffer for perfect clock modes) and transmit data twice as fast (for 1080p). If bandwidth is an issue, 720p 3d video mode could be utilised instead of 1080p if 1080p is unavailable.

 

Also the hdmi driver needs to support newer standard compared to older 1080p60. I have no idea if this is doable with current firmware/hardware. Only Kevtris can answer that.

The catch there is if you want to use the HDMI 3D spec, this is mostly true.

 

If you just need to sync up the shutter glasses that came with the SMS, that’s another matter. It should work in the mode where the clock speed of the SG is adjusted without having to actually implement the 3D spec at all. Otherwise the screen tearing would not be nice. The lag the TV adds would probably desync the glasses though, but if you could add an adjustable delay to the signal for the glasses it could be overcome. This is probably the easiest answer, since it should be possible to create a delay circuit controlled by a potentiometer.

 

You can also avoid needing a buffer while supporting the 3D HDMI spec by using the lower resolution side-by-side format versus the frame packed format BD uses. That would just need to be able to output “plain” 1080p30 to pull it off (PS3 does this). But you would need the HDMI scaler to support this form of frame packing directly, and that is something only Kevtris would be able to answer. And it would add a frame of lag as it needs to be fully buffered. This is the “cleanest”, but requires the TV to support 3D glasses, when newer ones don’t.

 

Edit: I assume he wants to use original shutter glasses with a MyCard adapter. With no control over the TVs latency there would need to be some way to adjust the shutter glasses to compensate.

Hah, you beat me.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Kaide

[spoonman]

I'd be happy to play the 3D games on a 3D HD display w/ active shutter glasses.

These to be exact

 

And with this PlayStation 3D display.

 

For a while you could buy the display for $50, and the glasses for $9.99 a pair. I bought 2 displays and 4 pair of glasses.

 

Most PS3 games drop their resolution down to 720p, or even lower. Some do display @ 1080p though, such as Super stardust HD and Super Hang-On (Sega/M2) and at 60fps the 3D effect looks incredible.

[Reaperman]

I just got my retro-bit blue controller today. Not terribly pleased. That'll teach me to follow the hype without assuming the worst right off the bat, amirite? It's got the 'push flat down in the center' d-pad instead of the 'rocks under your thumb' of the originals. Why the heck is any of this still a thing? It's an officially licensed product, so there shouldn't be any kind of patent/trademark problem, right? So what could possibly motivate this design choice?

 

Will it take an original thumb disc? Or more importantly is its crisp button rubber a direct fit in a sega pad?

Edited May 7, 2019 by Reaperman

[CZroe]

I just got my retro-bit blue controller today. Not terribly pleased. That'll teach me to follow the hype without assuming the worst right off the bat, amirite? It's got the 'push flat down in the center' d-pad instead of the 'rocks under your thumb' of the originals. Why the heck is any of this still a thing? It's an officially licensed product, so there shouldn't be any kind of patent/trademark problem, right? So what could possibly motivate this design choice?

 

Will it take an original thumb disc? Or more importantly is its crisp button rubber a direct fit in a sega pad?

It’s definitely being played up a bit considering that it’s basically the Hyperkin GN6 with less-stingy rubber membranes, but for $15 it’s at least a better deal than the Old Skool Pro Gamer Series TurboPad replicas for TurboGrafx-16. RetroBit, Old Skool, Tomee, and Hyperkin all use the same manufacturing partner for their controllers.

 

The D-pad is made the same way as Sega’s though they must have made the pivot differently, likely as an easy way to improve diagonals without tweaking PCB and carbonized rubber surface area to get it just right. Nintendo’s own MES Classic Edition has a smaller pivot and it makes it register errant diagonals too easily.

[Reaperman]

The D-pad is made the same way as Sega’s though they must have made the pivot differently, likely as an easy way to improve diagonals without tweaking PCB and carbonized rubber surface area to get it just right. Nintendo’s own MES Classic Edition has a smaller pivot and it makes it register errant diagonals too easily.

 

edited a bunch, like I tend to do

 

I didn't believe this could be possible, so I took them apart, and you're right.

 

What's even crazier, the thing pivots properly under my thumb with the board removed.

I can see why--on the blue one, when it's pivoting properly, the d-pad has pressed up well beyond the little protection flaps containing the d-pad and limiting its movement. The black pad pivots much closer to being within what would be the range allowed by them. Too much travel in the retro-bit.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Reaperman

[spoonman]

I thought he was talking about 3D capable HDTV's?

That's correct. SegaScope 3D displayed as Stereoscopic 3D on a 3D display for use with active shutter glasses.

 

Some of those 3D SMS games are very good. I like how M2 included a few on the 3D Sega Classics Collections for the 3DS. I only wish I could play them on a larger display,

[Jagasian]

The biggest disadvantage of flatscreen HDTVs compared to CRT TVs is the high input lag. That seems to be solved by LGs latest OLED TV, the C9, which has 13.5 ms input lag. That is in the highly coveted under one frame of lag territory. Not bad for a 65 inch 4k OLED.

 

I cant wait to see my Super NT on this TV. LG C9 review here:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled

Edited May 7, 2019 by Jagasian