FPGA Based Videogame System

[SegaSnatcher]

47 minutes ago, seastalker said:

Would you please clarify if "They aren't" is a reply to the Analogue TG16 console idea or adding CD support to the Mega SG? It's great to know that Kevtris bought a Mega SD and "for dev purposes" but doesn't that imply a YES that we might see Mega SG get CD support?

Analogue is not likely to make their own CD device for Genesis. They already added support for original CD units via expansion slot and now we got a proper FPGA Sega CD from TerraOnion, so kinda redundant for Analogue to waste time making their own.  Kevtris's dev time is precious, so it would be wasteful to have him work on his own Sega CD FPGA device. The reason he bought the device was to potentially help speed up fixing bugs of certain Sega CD games not working properly on Mega SG. It might prove to be a valuable tool for him.

Edited June 20, 2019 by SegaSnatcher

[LewisD]

The fact that Kevtris purchased a Mega SD is proof that Analogue has no intention of ever releasing a product or firmware with a Sega CD core. Kevtris goes out of his way to avoid the mere appearance of impropriety. For example, he has never touched a MiSTer to avoid any accusations that he would steal open source code to use on Analogue products (Although he was ridiculously accused of that last week).

[spoonman]

Has it been proven that the Mega Sg can't fit an additional Motorola 68K CPU core within the remaining logic on the FPGA? 

 

I still prefer using original games, even on new clone hardware, which is why I prefer solutions like the Super Nt and Mega Sg over software emulation. I wouldn't personally pay $260+ to play ISOs from an SDcard, but if the Mega Sg could add a working Sega CD core for free, I'd certainly use it. Better still, if added a $100 FPGA addon that allowed us to optionally connect a portable USB optical drive (which you can currently buy for less than $20), I'd buy it without question. I own a working Model 1 Sega CD, which still works, but I don't know for how long, and a small form factor portable where I can still use my original games, would be ideal.

 

After all, that is Analgue's mantra. The ability to continuing enjoying our game collections without worry of aging hardware failing us. If the Mega Sg gets its 32X support (via DAC solution), and budget conscious Sega CD support where were can use original software, or optionally, ISO loading, then it would truly be the ultimate Genesis / MD replacement hardware. 

 

I don't think Kevtris buying the Mega SD is confirmation of anything TBH. He also bought SNES and Genesis flashcarts, old school copiers, and other obscure accessories when working on the Super Nt and Mega Sg. I think it's important to make sure that these accessories continue to work on Analogue hardware after firmware updates.  

[SegaSnatcher]

1 hour ago, spoonman said:

Has it been proven that the Mega Sg can't fit an additional Motorola 68K CPU core within the remaining logic on the FPGA? 

 

I still prefer using original games, even on new clone hardware, which is why I prefer solutions like the Super Nt and Mega Sg over software emulation. I wouldn't personally pay $260+ to play ISOs from an SDcard, but if the Mega Sg could add a working Sega CD core for free, I'd certainly use it. Better still, if added a $100 FPGA addon that allowed us to optionally connect a portable USB optical drive (which you can currently buy for less than $20), I'd buy it without question. I own a working Model 1 Sega CD, which still works, but I don't know for how long, and a small form factor portable where I can still use my original games, would be ideal.

 

After all, that is Analgue's mantra. The ability to continuing enjoying our game collections without worry of aging hardware failing us. If the Mega Sg gets its 32X support (via DAC solution), and budget conscious Sega CD support where were can use original software, or optionally, ISO loading, then it would truly be the ultimate Genesis / MD replacement hardware. 

 

I don't think Kevtris buying the Mega SD is confirmation of anything TBH. He also bought SNES and Genesis flashcarts, old school copiers, and other obscure accessories when working on the Super Nt and Mega Sg. I think it's important to make sure that these accessories continue to work on Analogue hardware after firmware updates.  

I'm pretty sure the Mega SG is using the bulk of that 49K LE Cyclone V for the Genesis core + scaler.    Sega CD doesn't just have another 68K mind you, it also has a scale and rotation chip, 8 channel ADPCM audio and more ram to boot.  Stuffing a full Mega CD + Genesis in the single FPGA just isn't doable.  For reference the Mega SD uses a 25K LE FPGA and it has been confirmed that they are at 80% utilization of that chip for CD games.  $260 ain't cheap, but it allows you to enjoy Sega CD games without having to worry about faulty hardware, potentially damaging original discs or have to dick around with burned copies.  It also doubles as a flash cart for Genesis and SMS games with save state support for Genesis games.  

Personally, I don't see why you need to still play with your original physical games when the actual gameplay experience is the same with flashcarts/ODe's.  The Mega SD small form factor makes it a much better fit with the Mega SG.  Original Sega CD units look like crap hooked up to the Mega SG. I can also easily pack my Mega SG + Mega SD and take to a friend's house, have fun lugging around an original CD unit.   

Edited June 22, 2019 by SegaSnatcher

[vanfanel]

I dont think we will see FW supporting MegaCD ISOS from SD directly on the MegaSG without the MegaSD flashcart.

But above all, I wish we can see the remaining MegaDrive and Master System bugs fixed with a firmware update soon... I think this is much more needed.

[SegaSnatcher]

3 hours ago, vanfanel said:

I dont think we will see FW supporting MegaCD ISOS from SD directly on the MegaSG without the MegaSD flashcart.

But above all, I wish we can see the remaining MegaDrive and Master System bugs fixed with a firmware update soon... I think this is much more needed.

1. Yeah definitely not, the hardware just can't handle it and even if it did Kevtris has other thing to worry about.

2. I think we might be getting a little update for Super NT next.  Kevtris is backporting some of his scaler fixes he did for Mega SG like the top missing row of pixels and a new scanline generator, he might also fix a few game bugs as well.

[spoonman]

23 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Personally, I don't see why you need to still play with your original physical games when the actual gameplay experience is the same with flashcarts/ODe's.  The Mega SD small form factor makes it a much better fit with the Mega SG.  Original Sega CD units look like crap hooked up to the Mega SG. I can also easily pack my Mega SG + Mega SD and take to a friend's house, have fun lugging around an original CD unit.   

I've grown up playing original carts for 38 years now. It's all part of the experience for me.

Picking a game from the shelf..

..and physically playing the carts I own.

 

Flashcarts are OK, I bought Mega ED for $39. It's nice for trying out games I don't own to see if I want to buy them, or to play ENG translations. I find it's way too easy to quit playing a game on the flashcart after a few moments and move onto something else. I'll do this for 10, 20 games and at the end if the night I didn't really play a single game. Where as if I play a game that I bought I will stick with it longer. Original hardware that plays original games is the best IMO.

 

I also much prefer the original Genesis on a CRT. No emulated scanlines can match this..

 

 

 

 

 

But it's also nice to game on a 65" display sometimes too and the Mega Sg is best for that ocassion.

 

I also love the Sega CD model 1. It currently still works flawlessly and I hope there's a true ODE replacement for it when it decides to stop working. 

I also love the design of it. It's iconic.

 

I don't bring my video game systems anywhere. My friends all know to come over to play any game they want.

 

 

 

[Slipard]

So, it is just a choice between still living in the past (which is an hobby no worse than others) and evolving with technology and living the dreams we had in the past.

 

I like my past, but I always have been annoyed by all the limitations and I love the fact I have been upgrading my past to the standards I dreamed about.

 

Then, concentrating on one game at a time is not the hardware's fault. When I began piracy, very early in the 80's, you already had many games at once for the price of floppy discs and you ended up playing five minutes of them. I decided to actually enjoy each game to the best and managed to just play one game at a time. It's only discipline and discipline is only a matter of will.

 

In the end, to each his own. Maybe an ODE solution will come for the Mega CD, although I wouldn't bet on it. Too much of a niche, which Mega SD drastically reduced further.

[SegaSnatcher]

11 hours ago, spoonman said:

I've grown up playing original carts for 38 years now. It's all part of the experience for me.

Picking a game from the shelf..

 

..and physically playing the carts I own.

 

Flashcarts are OK, I bought Mega ED for $39. It's nice for trying out games I don't own to see if I want to buy them, or to play ENG translations. I find it's way too easy to quit playing a game on the flashcart after a few moments and move onto something else. I'll do this for 10, 20 games and at the end if the night I didn't really play a single game. Where as if I play a game that I bought I will stick with it longer. Original hardware that plays original games is the best IMO.

 

I also much prefer the original Genesis on a CRT. No emulated scanlines can match this..

 

 

But it's also nice to game on a 65" display sometimes too and the Mega Sg is best for that ocassion.

 

I also love the Sega CD model 1. It currently still works flawlessly and I hope there's a true ODE replacement for it when it decides to stop working. 

I also love the design of it. It's iconic.

 

 

I don't bring my video game systems anywhere. My friends all know to come over to play any game they want.

 

 

 

Hahahah, I can always count on you to post at least 5 photos from your collection.   

You talk about having trouble sticking with one game via a flashcart, but why do you think the same won't be true with a Sega CD ODE?  

It seems to me that you'd be better off just buying a new laser/caps/belt for your Sega CD when it starts giving you trouble since you still value physical games so much. That will still be cheaper than any Sega CD ODE.

All I can say is, learn some discipline and you won't have problems sticking to one game at a time with a flashcart/ode. I own a working Model 1 Sega CD setup and I can't wait to replace it with the Mega SD. Its just going to be so much more convienent for me while also looking much better on the Mega SG.

[cybercylon]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:30 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

FWIW,  the same people who fixed SSDS3 initial problems were hired to make sure MegaSD shipped without any serious hardware defects.   FirebrandX took care of the audio portion and Mobius checked over the general signal levels.  I'm confident that the actual hardware will be fine and that any bugs will be fixable through software updates.

That is good to know. RetroRGB has a review up on it, so far, so good. I wish TerraOnion would go back and fix the in-game reset for the SSDS3 though.

 

Looks like SAG will be running some sort of trade in program again if you already own another Rom cart (my guess it will be limited to official Everdrives).

[spoonman]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:27 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

Hahahah, I can always count on you to post at least 5 photos from your collection.   

You talk about having trouble sticking with one game via a flashcart, but why do you think the same won't be true with a Sega CD ODE?  

It seems to me that you'd be better off just buying a new laser/caps/belt for your Sega CD when it starts giving you trouble since you still value physical games so much. That will still be cheaper than any Sega CD ODE.

All I can say is, learn some discipline and you won't have problems sticking to one game at a time with a flashcart/ode. I own a working Model 1 Sega CD setup and I can't wait to replace it with the Mega SD. Its just going to be so much more convienent for me while also looking much better on the Mega SG.

Yep, that's how I roll.

 

My original post above explained better what I think would be ideal.

 optionally connect a portable USB optical drive (which you can currently buy for less than $20), I'd buy it without question. I own a working Model 1 Sega CD, which still works, but I don't know for how long, and a small form factor portable where I can still use my original games, would be ideal.

 

I certainly have discipline. I'm not buying every new flashcart that hits the market. I also wouldn't want to be the first in line for a TerraOnion product. Their history with customer service should make anyone think twice before jumping on it. 

 

I'd also wait and see what features Krikzz's Pro version of his Mega Everdrive carts will contain. Sega CD would be the next logical addition. Competition is always a good thing for customers. 

[Andromeda Stardust]

A flashcart Sega CD would be amazing. I simply hsve no use for a clunky CD attachment on the Mega SG. Ditto for Turbografx. But are all of the connections available via thecart port? Not exactly sure how that works.

[GarrettCRW]

15 hours ago, spoonman said:

I certainly have discipline. I'm not buying every new flashcart that hits the market. I also wouldn't want to be the first in line for a TerraOnion product. Their history with customer service should make anyone think twice before jumping on it. 

 

I'd also wait and see what features Krikzz's Pro version of his Mega Everdrive carts will contain. Sega CD would be the next logical addition. Competition is always a good thing for customers. 

At this point, I think the deciding issue for me is whether or not either device is capable of (and actually will provide) 32X cart support without the mushroom, because I fully expect Krikzz to add in Sega CD support to the Pro. I only have a few games for the 32X, but I would LOVE to sell off my second Genesis and go to only using the Mega Sg.

[SegaSnatcher]

21 minutes ago, GarrettCRW said:

At this point, I think the deciding issue for me is whether or not either device is capable of (and actually will provide) 32X cart support without the mushroom, because I fully expect Krikzz to add in Sega CD support to the Pro. I only have a few games for the 32X, but I would LOVE to sell off my second Genesis and go to only using the Mega Sg.

I wouldn't be so sure Krikzz has the skills to do Sega CD.  Yeah, he can license a 68K core, but everything else he'd have to implement himself and as far as I'm aware he's never implemented actual hardware chips in a FPGA before. Remember Sega CD has a scale and rotation chip and 8 channel ADPCM audio chip. Regardless even if he attempts it and succeeds we wouldn't be seeing that for probably at least a full year from now if not longer. He's working on many different flash carts at the same time its seems, so he can't dedicate all his time to implement Sega CD.  I think TO caught Krikzz with his pants down.

Edited June 26, 2019 by SegaSnatcher

[+eebuckeye]

Likely a stupid question.. but...

 

I heard a few people say they would still like a Sega CD ODE instead of the Mega SD.  Isn't the Mega SD a Sega CD ODE?

[seastalker]

eebuckeye - I have that same question 

[SegaSnatcher]

29 minutes ago, eebuckeye said:

Likely a stupid question.. but...

 

I heard a few people say they would still like a Sega CD ODE instead of the Mega SD.  Isn't the Mega SD a Sega CD ODE?

Yes and no.  Usually an ODE just replaces the laser mechanism, where as the Mega SD is replacing the whole Sega CD unit.  

[+eebuckeye]

So the SSD3 is actually not an ODE also?  Seems to me they would be the preferred solution over a true ODE.

[SegaSnatcher]

4 minutes ago, eebuckeye said:

So the SSD3 is actually not an ODE also?  Seems to me they would be the preferred solution over a true ODE.

Again, yes and no.  It replaces the whole CD interface.  Remember the PC Engine CD has a CD drive, built in save memory and video/audio outputs.  SSD3 does that + adds Hucard rom loading and RGB output.  A simple ODE for SSD3 would only replace the laser in the CD unit. 

[derFunkenstein]

Frankly I'm glad Terraonion didn't go that route. I do not have the skills to (for example) re-cap a Sega CD or replace a chip if something goes bad. FPGA (done right) is the only way forward IMO. Genesis consoles are cheap and selling a broken one on eBay is cheap. Sega CDs are not cheap (although selling broken ones on eBay is also easy). 32X is not cheap, either, for that matter, but I would be very surprised if anybody actually sells an FPGA clone for one. That'll probably be the domain of MiSTer when it migrates to another platform. 

[Toth]

How does it work if the Mega SD isn't passing the info through the actual CD connector?  Like on the PSIO it requires a modification inside the Playstation like to intercept the signals moving around inside the Playstation.  I assume that isn't the case here but it is still not just software emulation, right?  It is actually emulating the Sega CD hardware even though it isn't routing through the connector?

[Kaide]

3 minutes ago, Toth said:

How does it work if the Mega SD isn't passing the info through the actual CD connector?  Like on the PSIO it requires a modification inside the Playstation like to intercept the signals moving around inside the Playstation.  I assume that isn't the case here but it is still not just software emulation, right?  It is actually emulating the Sega CD hardware even though it isn't routing through the connector?

 

https://gamesx.com/cartouts/gennyport.htm

https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=schematics:console_related_schematics

Quote

The majority of the pins on the expansion port, for example the data and address lines, connect to the same pins on the cartridge port. /C_OE is Cartridge Output Enable, which sounds a little odd on the expansion port, but I'm sure you'll adjust.

 

It isn't like the PSX, where the CD is fully integrated. A cartridge and the Sega CD are both effectively daughterboards, with full access to the address and data buses and signaling lines required to coordinate. Much of what you need is accessible from either set of pins. For the rest, it's possible there's good equivalents/replacements for the FPGA version, or there is in fact a true 1:1 mapping you can build electrically. I'm not sure.

 

But it does look like almost everything you can do with one connection, you can do with the other.

[dj_convoy]

Just got my Mega SG, and am having a hard time adding the firmware update.

I've tried a couple of different properly formatted (Fat32) SD cards to no avail... The system led is blinking like it's doing it, but never stops. It's certainly not doing it in three to four minutes; I've let the current card to for half an hour. Any tips? Anything dumb I've missed?

 

 

Edit: Ah, never mind. You know how you skip stuff sometimes, 'cause you think you're smart? Their FAQ sez"Try it with a different computer, " and I rolled my eyes, but lo and behold... it worked. Now to bust outta jail.

[Kismet]

14 hours ago, Toth said:

How does it work if the Mega SD isn't passing the info through the actual CD connector?  Like on the PSIO it requires a modification inside the Playstation like to intercept the signals moving around inside the Playstation.  I assume that isn't the case here but it is still not just software emulation, right?  It is actually emulating the Sega CD hardware even though it isn't routing through the connector?

 

The Mega SD goes in the cartridge slot, and similar to the SNES, many of the pins on the expansion connector are also directly on the cartridge bus. Like there is a reason for that, you'd normally have a BIOS/Save memory in the cartridge slot.

 

A game like Shining Force CD can't even be played as intended without a save-game backup cart since the internal SegaCD save memory is not enough for the four games on it.

 

[kevtris]

The side expansion slot on the genesis is a subset of the cartridge connector.  All the signals you need are on the cartridge connector.  The expansion connector doesn't have all the address lines, and has a few extra enables, but since the cart slot contains all the address lines, these expansion slot unique signals can be easily recreated.