FPGA Based Videogame System

[phoenixdownita]

14 hours ago, kevtris said:

The side expansion slot on the genesis is a subset of the cartridge connector.  All the signals you need are on the cartridge connector.  The expansion connector doesn't have all the address lines, and has a few extra enables, but since the cart slot contains all the address lines, these expansion slot unique signals can be easily recreated.

Would it be possible to actually have the "flash cart" sit on the bottom of the 32X (32X on top for an even taller tower of power ?) and commandeer everything that way?

Or are there some signals the 32X intercepts on its end (when in 32X mode) making the setup just a taller mushroom for no good reason?

[kevtris]

4 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Would it be possible to actually have the "flash cart" sit on the bottom of the 32X (32X on top for an even taller tower of power ?) and commandeer everything that way?

Or are there some signals the 32X intercepts on its end (when in 32X mode) making the setup just a taller mushroom for no good reason?

I think it'd have to be on BOTH ends of the 32X to function properly, because the 32X acts like a ROM gatekeeper since it can use the cartridge for its on nefarious purposes while shutting it off from the base system.  It also apparently doesn't pass signals in certain address ranges either, which is why CD stuff can't work through it.  (note this might not be 100%, just going off what I remember from my research).

[Slipard]

Kevtris, how is the development of the Turbo Nc going?

[spoonman]

On 6/25/2019 at 8:57 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

Yes and no.  Usually an ODE just replaces the laser mechanism, where as the Mega SD is replacing the whole Sega CD unit.  

 

Except that the Mega SD can't play an original Sega CD, or any CD for that matter. It's not replacing an original Sega CD unit if the goal is to play your Sega CD disc collection. It also currently can't play Sega 32X CD games. There are only a few, but one of them, Night Trap, is a pretty high profile game which looks much better with the expanded color palette and larger video window. Most people won't know or care, but still.

 

On 6/26/2019 at 9:15 AM, derFunkenstein said:

Frankly I'm glad Terraonion didn't go that route. I do not have the skills to (for example) re-cap a Sega CD or replace a chip if something goes bad. FPGA (done right) is the only way forward IMO. Genesis consoles are cheap and selling a broken one on eBay is cheap. Sega CDs are not cheap (although selling broken ones on eBay is also easy). 32X is not cheap, either, for that matter, but I would be very surprised if anybody actually sells an FPGA clone for one. That'll probably be the domain of MiSTer when it migrates to another platform. 

 

My preferred Sega CD replacement would be similar to what TerraOnion made, except it would also have a USB micro connector in which it could connect to an generic off the shelf USB 3.0 portable optical disc reader (CD/DVD units typically sell for under $20 now), so it could be a true Sega CD replacement in that it could optionally read data from your original Sega CDs as well as play BIN/CUE, ISO images from the SDCard. Perhaps it could even allow you to backup your original Sega CD discs to the SDcard as well. I've always been fond of backup units (Magic Drive, Magicom, Pro Fighter, V64, and so on), so it's always nice to see their tradition carried forward. I hope we can also get the ability to dump Gen/MD carts with the Mega Sg JB FW some day.

 

 

On 6/25/2019 at 8:20 PM, SegaSnatcher said:

I wouldn't be so sure Krikzz has the skills to do Sega CD.  Yeah, he can license a 68K core, but everything else he'd have to implement himself and as far as I'm aware he's never implemented actual hardware chips in a FPGA before. Remember Sega CD has a scale and rotation chip and 8 channel ADPCM audio chip. Regardless even if he attempts it and succeeds we wouldn't be seeing that for probably at least a full year from now if not longer. He's working on many different flash carts at the same time its seems, so he can't dedicate all his time to implement Sega CD.  I think TO caught Krikzz with his pants down.

It doesn't matter if Krikzz has the skills or not. He could can likely hire someone to help, or go into a deal with someone like he had done with Ikari on the SD2SNES. We also don't know if he's been working on it, and if so, to how long. He sprung the SD2SNES 2 with very little warning or hype. This would be the obvious next step. He needs to stay in the game, so to speak.

 

$270 is a lot of money (for the Mega SD), especially if you just bought a Mega Sg and Everdrive flashcart. Competition will no doubt help bring that price down a bit. There's nothing wrong with that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by spoonman

[SegaSnatcher]

1 hour ago, spoonman said:

 

Except that the Mega SD can't play an original Sega CD, or any CD for that matter. It's not replacing an original Sega CD unit if the goal is to play your Sega CD disc collection. It also currently can't play Sega 32X CD games. There are only a few, but one of them, Night Trap, is a pretty high profile game which looks much better with the expanded color palette and larger video window. Most people won't know or care, but still.

 

That is the whole point of an ODE, so you don't have to deal with physical optical disc meda.   If the goal is to play your CD collection then why do you want an ODE?  Sorry, but I don't quite get what it is you are trying to accomplish.  Just stick with your discs if that is what you prefer, no need to spend extra money to make your setup more complicated than necessary.

The SD2SNES Pro was developed by Ikari just like the original and the reason it was made was because some of the components of the original SD2SNES were becoming EOL, so he was kinda forced to do a redesign.

Krikzz already basically finished the design of his new Mega Everdrive X7 before TO even announced the Mega SD.  He'd have to go back to the drawing board and redo his design from the ground up with Sega CD in mind and then it'll take him at least another year if not more to implement a Sega CD even if he had help. There isn't an open source Sega CD core available right now and there hasn't been any news about someone else working on a Sega CD core outside Terra Onion. Also, I can't imagine a Krikzz Sega CD ODE being much cheaper than the Mega SD.  It doesn't seem Krikzz reacts to competition, for example, The Joyzz controllers are still $60 even though you can get the 8bitdo M30 2.4ghz controller for $25.

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by SegaSnatcher

[mr_me]

Some people just want to use original media out of their collection.  That's why analogue put cartridge slots in their products.

[SegaSnatcher]

For the forseeable future TO is going to be your only choice for a Sega CD replacement for either your original Genesis or Mega SG, so either deal with the high price for a quality product, or just sit it out and enjoy your original discs.  I can't wait to retire my Model 1 CD.

[vanfanel]

Regarding the MegaSG, mine corrupted my micro SD yesterday (Samsung EVO PLUS 32GB), I had to reformat it...

Also, the MegaSG behaves stragely some times: POWER button just resets the machine instead of powering it off!

Have you guys suffered these? I absolutely love how it looks and sounds, but this is worrying me. I use latest JB firm (7.5 as of this writting).

[SegaSnatcher]

8 hours ago, vanfanel said:

Regarding the MegaSG, mine corrupted my micro SD yesterday (Samsung EVO PLUS 32GB), I had to reformat it...

Also, the MegaSG behaves stragely some times: POWER button just resets the machine instead of powering it off!

Have you guys suffered these? I absolutely love how it looks and sounds, but this is worrying me. I use latest JB firm (7.5 as of this writting).

I've never had any of the issues you described and its the first time I heard of this.  If you think you got a lemon motherboard contact Analogue, they are usually good at sending out replacement motherboards.

[vanfanel]

@SegaSnatcher: It seems to be an SD Card access problem only. Today, it stopped recognizing the SD card ("cannot mount SD card!" when loading a core), and after some power-off/power-on cycles, it recognized the card again without even touching it. Then it went again into no-card-recognition mode

Any ideas? a board replacement seems a bit too far, I just would like the MegaSG to work well.

[cybercylon]

I'd try another SD card from another brand as a first step. What format does it need to be in? I assume FAT32 or FAT ex. Try one of the programs mentioned on this page to format the new card might be something to look into as well https://stoneagegamer.com/fat32.html

[SegaSnatcher]

2 hours ago, vanfanel said:

@SegaSnatcher: It seems to be an SD Card access problem only. Today, it stopped recognizing the SD card ("cannot mount SD card!" when loading a core), and after some power-off/power-on cycles, it recognized the card again without even touching it. Then it went again into no-card-recognition mode

Any ideas? a board replacement seems a bit too far, I just would like the MegaSG to work well.

Get yourself a Sandisk off Amazon.  I have never had issues with Sandisk cards.

[Andromeda Stardust]

5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Get yourself a Sandisk off Amazon.  I have never had issues with Sandisk cards.

Samsung is a pretty reputable brand. Now sure why it wouldn't work, but yes, try a different card by all means.

 

Sometimes cards, even name brands, are bunk out of the box. I have had it happen once or twice.

[Slipard]

SD Cards are not as reliable as an HDD or even an SSD; they are more like USB keys, reliability wise.

 

Also, while there are less HDD and SSD knock offs, SD cards and USB keys are very common counterfeit goods, so when buying one, you need to do it from a trusted source (I use Amazon and am careful about the card being sold and shipped by Amazon, not a third party) and it doesn't take off the risk your card will die prematurely. Think of SD cards like light bulbs before they went LED and you'll get the picture (pun intended).

 

For troubleshooting, easiest way is to test the Samsung card elsewhere and see. Usually, computers are quite tolerant but if you can manage (using an USB adapter) to connect it to a printer, by example, you'll get a better idea. Then, try a new card on the Mega Sg and see if the problem occurs again. Once that done, you'll get to where the problem lies, most probably the card.

[+wongojack]

Star Fleet stopped using SD cards long ago.

 

[vanfanel]

Guys, I think I found the problem! It was my fault...

I was using the SuperNT USB power supply with the MegaSG. I have connected it to a 2.1A USB power supply, and no more SD reading failures seem to happen!

(I left my MegaSG power supply at home in Salamanca...)

[spoonman]

On 6/28/2019 at 7:53 AM, SegaSnatcher said:

That is the whole point of an ODE, so you don't have to deal with physical optical disc meda.   If the goal is to play your CD collection then why do you want an ODE?  Sorry, but I don't quite get what it is you are trying to accomplish.  Just stick with your discs if that is what you prefer, no need to spend extra money to make your setup more complicated than necessary.

The SD2SNES Pro was developed by Ikari just like the original and the reason it was made was because some of the components of the original SD2SNES were becoming EOL, so he was kinda forced to do a redesign.

Krikzz already basically finished the design of his new Mega Everdrive X7 before TO even announced the Mega SD.  He'd have to go back to the drawing board and redo his design from the ground up with Sega CD in mind and then it'll take him at least another year if not more to implement a Sega CD even if he had help. There isn't an open source Sega CD core available right now and there hasn't been any news about someone else working on a Sega CD core outside Terra Onion. Also, I can't imagine a Krikzz Sega CD ODE being much cheaper than the Mega SD.  It doesn't seem Krikzz reacts to competition, for example, The Joyzz controllers are still $60 even though you can get the 8bitdo M30 2.4ghz controller for $25.

 

Again, you keep missing the point here. What I want is to use my original games.. and, wait for it... the option to also play games from an SDcard. You know.. exactly like every other Analogue FPGA based product released thus far. 

 

I prefer playing on real hardware and I also prefer playing original software. Sorry if that's an alien concept, but some of us bought Analogue products instead of just using software emulation for the fact that you can plug in your carts and original accessories. Now the only thing that is missing is a 32X solution, and a replacement for the aging Sega CD. Which is where an FPGA replacement would fit in. 

 

And yes I will most certainly continue to use my Sega CD model 1, but it's not going to last forever. The fact that it still works is a miracle. 

I am a big fan of the Sega CD, which is why I want a way to play my games and not just load up ISOs. 

 

It's no secret that Krikzz is looking into adding Sega CD support to the Mega EverDrive. He even tweeted about it. He also just dropped the news of the N8 Pro as well. He does understand fully that he needs to continue to evolve the tech... and yes of course he is competitive! If you've been following his work then you would have seen very clear examples of this. It's the whole reason behind him creating tiers for some of his products. I.E. Mega ED X3, X5, X7. Starting at $39. He also has 20% discounts during Black Friday each year. Not to mention he dropped the prices of the Joyzz to $48 soon after the 8Bitdo M30's went up for preorder. They've gone back up to full price on Amazon which must mean he either doesn't need to drop the price on them or his stock is on the low side.

 

So yes.. A form factor FPGA SCD add-on that can optionally connect to a standard USB portable optical drive is what I want. I'll hold out for it. I can hope right?

[SegaSnatcher]

2 minutes ago, spoonman said:

So yes.. A form factor FPGA SCD add-on that can optionally connect to a standard USB portable optical drive is what I want. I'll hold out for it. I can hope right?

Sure, but now with Mega SD available I doubt anyone will be willing to waste time on that kind of project. I mean unless they can sell it for a good amount cheaper than the Mega SD it seems like a waste of time.

[ErebusMaligan]

2 hours ago, spoonman said:

Again, you keep missing the point here.

 

I don't think anyone is missing your point, it's just that generally speaking that is not how most ODEs work.  It's a neat idea, but not really that practical from a design or marketing standpoint.

 

I have ODEs for the dreamcast, saturn, 3do, gamecube, pce, and in all cases they replace the original optical drive by hooking in directly to the port that the original drive hooked up to (except the pce).  As SegaSnatcher has said In the case of the pce the ssds3 replaces the entire cd unit and more, so it is more of an ODE and some other stuff, but for simplicity i would lump it in with other ODEs.  I think the gamecube had a way to install the sd card reader and keep a drive, or swap the drive out for a wii one, or something, but by the time i got into this hobby it was hard enough to find the wasp chip and parts to hook it up at all, so mine replaced my drive.

 

The only one I have that compliments the original drive and doesn't replace it is the psio, since it uses the serial port on the ps1.

 

Later model systems like the PS2/Xbox can use an internal drive (or with adapters an external sd card) and still use the standard disc drives.

 

I think in the case of the Sega CD, the most realistic scenario that even approximates what you are looking for would be a pass through device that hooks to the board connector where the cd unit normally hooks up, that has an ability to read from an sd card, and a passthrough edge connector to also connect back to the standard SCD units... although at that point the fit would be a bit off.  Interfacing with an off the shelf cd reader just doesn't seem like a likely thing that anyone would ever do considering the mechanisms to read the physical media already exist as part of the normal system.  At best someone would build something that compliments the original drive.

 

The list of people that enjoy the SCD library, want to play it, don't care about using the original disc reading hardware, but must use the original media - has got to be a very, very niche group.

 

 

[Kaide]

I'd try another SD card from another brand as a first step. What format does it need to be in? I assume FAT32 or FAT ex. Try one of the programs mentioned on this page to format the new card might be something to look into as well https://stoneagegamer.com/fat32.html

I’m not sure anyone answered your question, so I may be repeating someone’s answer here.

The SuperNT and MegaSG don’t support ExFAT (it costs money to license, as one reason). You will want to use FAT32.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SegaSnatcher]

Mega SD is definitely on my top list of products then maybe the Woozle GBA mod.

[Andromeda Stardust]

On 7/3/2019 at 8:41 AM, Kaide said:

 

I’m not sure anyone answered your question, so I may be repeating someone’s answer here.

The SuperNT and MegaSG don’t support ExFAT (it costs money to license, as one reason). You will want to use FAT32.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yeah on windows the built in formatter will not override FAT32 on partitions larger than 32Gb so you will need to use the command line or a third party formatter.

 

⚠️WARNING!⚠️

 

I would strongly advise against the command line option unless you know exactly what you are doing. Disconnect all external drives as a precaution, and verify you have chosen the correct drive letter. Sometmes the command line drive letter does not match the windows drive letter. You do not want to format the wrong drive and lose precious data!

[cybercylon]

The links that I gave for SAG directs you to two GUI programs that I have used successfully. One is for 32 gig and other and the other is for >32 gig (though I have used the latter for all sizes).

 

Sorry for the confusion about mentioning exFAT. I just couldn't remember at the time.

 

As for FPGA flash carts, I am looking forward to the N8 pro and see what it has. I've seen mention of 8 slots for save states, and if those work reliably, that will be a plus.

[CZroe]

How does it work if the Mega SD isn't passing the info through the actual CD connector?  Like on the PSIO it requires a modification inside the Playstation like to intercept the signals moving around inside the Playstation.  I assume that isn't the case here but it is still not just software emulation, right?  It is actually emulating the Sega CD hardware even though it isn't routing through the connector?

It was very difficult to understand but I added closed captioning to their own description of how it works...

...if you’re interested. Be sure to enable the CCs.

[CZroe]

I've grown up playing original carts for 38 years now. It's all part of the experience for me.

Picking a game from the shelf..

..and physically playing the carts I own.

 

Flashcarts are OK, I bought Mega ED for $39. It's nice for trying out games I don't own to see if I want to buy them, or to play ENG translations. I find it's way too easy to quit playing a game on the flashcart after a few moments and move onto something else. I'll do this for 10, 20 games and at the end if the night I didn't really play a single game. Where as if I play a game that I bought I will stick with it longer. Original hardware that plays original games is the best IMO.

 

I also much prefer the original Genesis on a CRT. No emulated scanlines can match this..

 

 

 

 

 

But it's also nice to game on a 65" display sometimes too and the Mega Sg is best for that ocassion.

 

I also love the Sega CD model 1. It currently still works flawlessly and I hope there's a true ODE replacement for it when it decides to stop working. 

I also love the design of it. It's iconic.

 

I don't bring my video game systems anywhere. My friends all know to come over to play any game they want. [emoji4]

I experienced this as a Doctor V64 user from back in the day but not so much with the Bung Doctor GB Card, since it would only hold a smaller selection of games at a time. I think this is what Terra Onion was going for with the original flash-based NeoSD but I’m still glad I held out and waited for the Pro. Back in 2017 when the Pro was not announced a bunch of TO fans you-know-where were harping on me for waiting on Darksoft. I said it was just a preference for RAM-based hardware and being flash-based for something that large felt like a step backwards. I almost feel that TO made it directly in response to stubborn people like me and now it gets NGCD support to boot.

 

I spent the last week and a half trying a ton of stuff on the UperGrafx UGX-02. I was starting to have the same attention issue and was spending one for North American releases, translations, and Japanese English releases

 

another for Arcade Card, Japanese selections that can be played without speaking Japanese, and other titles of note.

 

another with various game series collections including HuCard/TurboChip and CD releases

 

another that’s mostly HuCard/TurboChip titles and some unlicensed titles.

 

and one for the remnants, like games requiring Japanese, games that were also released in English, and all that weird slideshow and karaoke stuff.

 

Maybe then I can escape the paralysis of choice problem we get with modern options!