FPGA Based Videogame System

[SegaSnatcher]

Just now, Slipard said:

I have an Analogue Nt 2nd (considering to sell it, though) and I would still love to have an Nt Mini, especially a plastic version, even without jailbreak. As long as it does NES perfectly, I'm sold.

I would love that too.  I really like my AVS, but I can only imagine how much better a NT Mini Plastic edition would be.  

[derFunkenstein]

I can't believe Analogue hasn't done it already. Just make a plastic shell and remove the analog ports (and references to them in the menus), then sell it for $190. And release the HDMI to analog adapter already.

 

People are hungry for well-made systems and adapters like what Analogue makes, I think. Whether it's enough people to keep going is anyone's guess. 

[Andromeda Stardust]

6 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I would love that too.  I really like my AVS, but I can only imagine how much better a NT Mini Plastic edition would be.  

AVS with Power Pak / Everdrive is perfect for my needs. Now as many bells and whistles as the Super NT or Mega SG, but is great for what it does.

[ErebusMaligan]

3 hours ago, Kosmic Stardust said:

AVS with Power Pak / Everdrive is perfect for my needs. Now as many bells and whistles as the Super NT or Mega SG, but is great for what it does.

My only issue with the AVS was really the point that I think Joe from Gamesack brought up in their review of it, that for some unfathomable reason most (none? I don't remember) of the settings in the menu have numbers they just have that annoying bar where you would have to count the notches if you want to map it to numbers.  Kind of minor, but it really annoyed me as well.

 

Also when I owned one, I could never get zelda 2 to look right when walking through towns or the dungeons, it always seemed to cause shimmering.  I realize that is an integer scaling issue, but I don't think I ever got it sorted for whatever reason.  Could be I just understood less at the time and didn't try enough settings.

[Andromeda Stardust]

15 minutes ago, ErebusMaligan said:

My only issue with the AVS was really the point that I think Joe from Gamesack brought up in their review of it, that for some unfathomable reason most (none? I don't remember) of the settings in the menu have numbers they just have that annoying bar where you would have to count the notches if you want to map it to numbers.  Kind of minor, but it really annoyed me as well.

 

Also when I owned one, I could never get zelda 2 to look right when walking through towns or the dungeons, it always seemed to cause shimmering.  I realize that is an integer scaling issue, but I don't think I ever got it sorted for whatever reason.  Could be I just understood less at the time and didn't try enough settings.

Go all the way to the left, then tap right 4 times. That will give you a 3x4 integer pixel ratio.

 

720p 4x3 pixels is believe it or not also my Super NT preference as well. Scanlines look perfect.

 

I could never get 1080p to look right with scanlines. Too thin at 5x and portions of the image cropped, even with a 4k tcl tv wih overscn turned off.

[Atariboy]

I believe the most recent AVS update or perhaps the one even before that, added pixel interpolation to conceal the shimmering.

 

The results as shown by the Super NT and Mega SG are good enough that many of us just dial in the aspect ratio that we want and don't worry about getting a result that yields even scaling of pixels.

 

I imagine the AVS yields similarly good results with their implementation of pixel interpolation, although I've yet to buy myself one. It's definitely on my wish list though.

[Drunk_Caterpillar]

My AVS+N8 combo works, as far as I can really tell, flawlessly. The horizontal interpolation introduced in firmware v1.30 solves the judder issues (confirmed with the 240p Test Suite) and every game I've cared to boot has done so without a hitch. The only issue remaining is that the included palettes are a little out of date, but RetroUSB is updating the Scoreboard and AVS firmwares to allow you to load your own. The only things I'd like out of an AVS v2 would be features that are already out in the NT Mini:

- Cart and save dumping.
- 5x 1080p scaling

- Jailbreak Firmware/cartless ROM loading

 

Otherwise, I think the majority of users would be more than satisfied with the AVS as is if they have a ROM cart or just plan on playing their original library.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Drunk_Caterpillar

[Andromeda Stardust]

4 hours ago, Drunk_Caterpillar said:

My AVS+N8 combo works, as far as I can really tell, flawlessly. The horizontal interpolation introduced in firmware v1.30 solves the judder issues (confirmed with the 240p Test Suite) and every game I've cared to boot has done so without a hitch. The only issue remaining is that the included palettes are a little out of date, but RetroUSB is updating the Scoreboard and AVS firmwares to allow you to load your own. The only things I'd like out of an AVS v2 would be features that are already out in the NT Mini:

- Cart and save dumping.
- 5x 1080p scaling

- Jailbreak Firmware/cartless ROM loading

 

Otherwise, I think the majority of users would be more than satisfied with the AVS as is if they have a ROM cart or just plan on playing their original library.

This x infinity! ??

[CZroe]

I can't believe Analogue hasn't done it already. Just make a plastic shell and remove the analog ports (and references to them in the menus), then sell it for $190. And release the HDMI to analog adapter already.
 
People are hungry for well-made systems and adapters like what Analogue makes, I think. Whether it's enough people to keep going is anyone's guess. 

I've always imagined that this was exactly what they were doing and the hold-up was probably because they encountered some kind of a compatibility snag.

[Drunk_Caterpillar]

3 hours ago, CZroe said:

17 hours ago, derFunkenstein said:

I can't believe Analogue hasn't done it already. Just make a plastic shell and remove the analog ports (and references to them in the menus), then sell it for $190. And release the HDMI to analog adapter already.
 
People are hungry for well-made systems and adapters like what Analogue makes, I think. Whether it's enough people to keep going is anyone's guess. 

I've always imagined that this was exactly what they were doing and the hold-up was probably because they encountered some kind of a compatibility snag.

I mean, re-designing a motherboard isn't exactly child's play; something tells me they wanted to get the SuperNt and MegaSg out the door before they did anything else. My bet is we'll see a plastic Nt Mini once they release the Sg cartridge adapters and the ADC.

[CZroe]

Here's a thought: what if the analog adapter is only available bundled with the Nt Mini MkII? That would maintain feature parity with the original and the overlap between Nt Mini owners and Super Nt/Mega Sg owners is relatively low. It would also explain a bit of the delay if they absolutely had to be ready simultaneously.

Maybe they are trying to add something completely unexpected, like JAMMA or Neo Geo MVS cabinet compatibility for a future Neo Sk.

Of course, they wouldn't likely pull this bundle trick with a Neo Geo clone since fewer would demand analog and it would make even less sense to force on people... but it could generate a few extra sales of the Neo Sk to people who mostly want the adapter for their Mega Sg or Super Nt.

All the extra cores of the Nt Mini make it more attractive in the "Want this one thing? Buy all these things." sense but they may want to ensure more sales of the Neo Sk to even justify making one.

[SegaSnatcher]

12 hours ago, ErebusMaligan said:

My only issue with the AVS was really the point that I think Joe from Gamesack brought up in their review of it, that for some unfathomable reason most (none? I don't remember) of the settings in the menu have numbers they just have that annoying bar where you would have to count the notches if you want to map it to numbers.  Kind of minor, but it really annoyed me as well.

 

Also when I owned one, I could never get zelda 2 to look right when walking through towns or the dungeons, it always seemed to cause shimmering.  I realize that is an integer scaling issue, but I don't think I ever got it sorted for whatever reason.  Could be I just understood less at the time and didn't try enough settings.

Shimmering really isn't much an issue anymore now that horiztontal interpolation has been added.  Make sure you update your firmware if you haven't already.  The interpolation is a must if you want a more accurate aspect ratio. 

[atmn]

Confirmed fw update work on the SNt maybe a sign that they will add the analogue adapter to the upcoming version.

 

Suppose it will plugin and the system detects it and there might be a new menu option.

[SegaSnatcher]

I'm going to assume that the hold up for the DAC was possibly Kevtris needing time to be able to output 240p and native timings via HDMI.  Before the DAC was announced he stated that offering original timings via HDMI out would be very difficult because of something to do with PLLs or something.  

[hyrulebr]

43 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I'm going to assume that the hold up for the DAC was possibly Kevtris needing time to be able to output 240p and native timings via HDMI.  Before the DAC was announced he stated that offering original timings via HDMI out would be very difficult because of something to do with PLLs or something.  

From Polygon interview 10 months ago:

 

When asked what’s happened to this thing (DAC), Taber said, “It’s been done. It’s like 99.9 percent done and has been for like six months. We just didn’t have the time to focus on it. We had a small window of time to be able to focus on something else before we needed to get on Mega SG to be able to stick to our development schedule, and we even pushed the envelope a couple of weeks out and we just couldn’t spend another fucking day on it. We had to drop it. So it’s basically done, ready to be produced. We even have all the parts for it and everything, we just have to pull the trigger on it. So right when we get through these last little details with Mega SG, that’s the first thing on the list.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/16/17979024/sega-genesis-mega-drive-mega-sg-release-date-analogue-super-nt

 

 

If he told the truth, native timings over HDMI are done. The only thing on the technical side that I imagine could delay the launch of DAC would be to make 32X compatible. But can only be a matter of again focus on it as he said.

 

What will come first? DAC or SG adapters?  ?

 

 

[SegaSnatcher]

17 minutes ago, hyrulebr said:

From Polygon interview 10 months ago:

 

When asked what’s happened to this thing (DAC), Taber said, “It’s been done. It’s like 99.9 percent done and has been for like six months. We just didn’t have the time to focus on it. We had a small window of time to be able to focus on something else before we needed to get on Mega SG to be able to stick to our development schedule, and we even pushed the envelope a couple of weeks out and we just couldn’t spend another fucking day on it. We had to drop it. So it’s basically done, ready to be produced. We even have all the parts for it and everything, we just have to pull the trigger on it. So right when we get through these last little details with Mega SG, that’s the first thing on the list.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/16/17979024/sega-genesis-mega-drive-mega-sg-release-date-analogue-super-nt

 

 

If he told the truth, native timings over HDMI are done. The only thing on the technical side that I imagine could delay the launch of DAC would be to make 32X compatible. But can only be a matter of again focus on it as he said.

 

What will come first? DAC or SG adapters?  ?

 

 

NT Mini Poor Man's Edition, or PCE/TG-16 FPGA.

[Slipard]

1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

NT Mini Poor Man's Edition, or PCE/TG-16 FPGA.

I'll buy both, kthx.

[phoenixdownita]

I personally think it's time Analogue allows Kevtris to release the All-In-One with all the cores.

Obviously all the cores without BIOS are in the official FW (NES, SNES, Genny, SMS, 2600, ...) and the rest in JB (7800, CV, O2, ....), if any OpenBIOS happens to be available for some of the JB systems, then by any means those should be part of the std FW.

 

The adapters route for original carts is viable imho (if they keep the 10US$ apiece price it's not bad at all).

Only mess is the need for controller adapters as well ...  maybe they can raise the price 70-90US$ on the setup (not sure if that would allow to move from the current Cyclone V 5CEA4 to the 5CEA5 with ~50% more LEs at 77K, the next step 5CEA7 seems to add quite more cost but at 150K LEs it would be king of the hill  https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/pt/cyclone-v-product-table.pdf)

 

Probably the base unit should not have "preferences" so the cart slot is a simple PCI connector (or a pair) with adapters on top, for the controllers I am not sure, I'd go DB9 with adapters for SNES/NES (DB9 just as a connector, I am not advocating that they should be wired Atari/Genny style only ... although it could be a sensible default).

 

I am not sure what the Analogue AIO should look like but given current production only has some elements to connect back to the originals (color scheme, a ring, etc....) it may be OK to look different (maybe like the Nt Mini .... that thing does not evoke a NES, but by any means no Aluminum milled cases on the default units, premium ones can be made of solid gold/platinum/unobtanium for all I care). 

 

 

[phoenixdownita]

[DELETED : weird self quote double post]

[shinjimimura]

6 hours ago, Slipard said:

I'll buy both, kthx.

I will as well. But I still want my AESnt

[Guspaz]

The DAC was nearly done before the Mega Sg, so the Mega Sg probably changed the plans a bit if they wanted to try to use it for 32X compatibility.

 

I own a Super Nt and think it's great. I didn't buy the Mega Sg because I don't have enough nostalgia for that console and can't justify it on top of the Genesis/Everdrive/OSSC that I already have. I would buy a plastic Nt Mini if one were produced (in the $150-200 pricepoint range). I would buy an Analogue GBA if one were produced (with both handheld and HDMI output support).

 

In terms of an FPGA for an Analogue GBA, I can find references to FPGA implementations of the ARM7 from nearly 20 years ago, it's a pretty simple processor with only 128KB of internal RAM running at a low clockspeed. I don't think the implementation or the FPGA would be a problem. I don't think the licensing would either, since the ARM7 was introduced in 1993, the patents should have expired by now. Nintendo may have some relevant patents, but they should be expiring within the next few years. So maybe an Analogue GBA would need to wait until 2021. There's plenty of things they can do in the meantime.

 

It might also be possible to not put the CPU on the FPGA and just put an ARM7TDMI chip on the board. They still make the things, after all.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Guspaz

[CZroe]

The DAC was naerly done before the Mega Sg, so the Mega Sg probably changed the plans a bit if they wanted to try to use it for 32X compatibility.
 
I own a Super Nt and think it's great. I didn't buy the Mega Sg because I don't have enough nostalgia for that console and can't justify it on top of the Genesis/Everdrive/OSSC that I already have. I would buy a plastic Nt Mini if one were produced (in the $150-200 pricepoint range). I would buy an Analogue GBA if one were produced (with both handheld and HDMI output support).
 
In terms of an FPGA for an Analogue GBA, I can find references to FPGA implementations of the ARM7 from nearly 20 years ago, it's a pretty simple processor with only 128KB of internal RAM running at a low clockspeed. I don't think the implementation or the FPGA would be a problem. I don't think the licensing would either, since the ARM7 was introduced in 1993, the patents should have expired by now. Nintendo may have some relevant patents, but they should be expiring within the next few years. So maybe an Analogue GBA would need to wait until 2021. There's plenty of things they can do in the meantime.
 
It might also be possible to not put the CPU on the FPGA and just put an ARM7TDMI chip on the board. They still make the things, after all.

Many FPGAs have an embedded ARM CPU for the things you'd rather code or emulate rather than replicate the original logic.

[Guspaz]

There are plenty of modern FPGAs with onboard ARM CPUs. There are probably not too many with an onboard ARM7 CPU. Even the newest ARM chips still, AFAIK, support AArch32 for some degree of backwards compatibility, but I'm sure there are differences in the instruction set and timings as compared to the old ARM7 from the early 90s... and that doesn't seem like the sort of thing Kevin would do.

[Drunk_Caterpillar]

On 8/3/2019 at 1:44 AM, spoonman said:

Have you tried renaming them to .SRM? If it's anything like the old 90's copiers they will be SRAM in raw format.

It should be as simple as that. 

I have tried this btw, and it didn't work. Gonna keep looking for other options. If anyone here still has any ideas, I'd love the help.

[spoonman]

On 8/4/2019 at 4:44 AM, Drunk_Caterpillar said:

My AVS+N8 combo works, as far as I can really tell, flawlessly. The horizontal interpolation introduced in firmware v1.30 solves the judder issues (confirmed with the 240p Test Suite) and every game I've cared to boot has done so without a hitch. The only issue remaining is that the included palettes are a little out of date, but RetroUSB is updating the Scoreboard and AVS firmwares to allow you to load your own. The only things I'd like out of an AVS v2 would be features that are already out in the NT Mini:

- Cart and save dumping.
- 5x 1080p scaling

- Jailbreak Firmware/cartless ROM loading

 

Otherwise, I think the majority of users would be more than satisfied with the AVS as is if they have a ROM cart or just plan on playing their original library.

You can actually backup all of your battery SRAM SAVs on the current AVS using the Scoreboard client software. I kept asking for a CopyNES function on the AVS, but when I really thought about it I couldn't think of a single cartridge I would actually dump the rom from. Out of the 700 original NES carts I own, the only one which hasn't been dumped and made publicly available is a rare 250-in-1 SuperVision cart, but that wouldn't dump with traditional methods anyway.

I agree with Kosmic Stardust. I always use scanlines and 720p seems to look best with that since it's a perfect 3x integer. 

The N8 is my go to cart when not playing original carts. I use it a lot for ENG translations and improvement hacks (Pyron color corrections, Save/map hacks for Metroid, Castlevania III, etc..), and I also use the save state function on occasion. I probably wouldn't use a jailbreak if one were added, but all of that would be fine if Brian were to make an improved version and could keep the price around the same as the original AVS. 

Nothing against the Nt Mini, as it's an incredible piece of tech, but I love the classic style of the AVS so hopefully they'd keep the same style in an "AVS 2". I think you had to have grown up with a front loading NES in the 80's or been up on the history of Nintendo's own AVS prototype to full appreciate what Brian did with the design.

 

I like how the game carts are inserted horizontally and covered. Vertically inserted NES carts can sometimes wobble, occasionally resulting in the game glitching out. The cart also won't stick up in front of your display if you have your system happens to sit in front of it.

 

I also recently bought an FDS RAM Adapter + FDS Stick (highly recommended) and that fits nicely into the AVS cart slot.

 

 

A new firmware us currently being developed which will allow user created color palettes to be added, this should future proof it for any new ones which might come along.
The only thing I'd like to see is a fixed firmware for the RetroUSB 8-BIT XMAS 2017 cart. 1.30 broke compatibility with it and causes it to freeze among other weird issues with the cart's built-in LCD.