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FPGA Based Videogame System


kevtris

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

682 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...


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7 minutes ago, Jagasian said:

If implemented right, USB can be implemented in a way that it introduces under 1 millisecond of lag.  So not exactly zero lag, but still great.  Even the lowest lag HDTVs add 10 milliseconds of lag, which is a big reason why people like CRTs for classic gaming.

I just had a thought....8Bitdo recently released the 2.4G Sega Mini set that uses USB. I'd like to see a USB receiver and a line of 2.4G controllers on top of the Genesis ones. Like an SNES controller and a 2.4G receiver would be nice ?

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2 minutes ago, Kaide said:

 


So would I, but the lack of stock of the NT Mini for ~2 years, despite demand says they aren’t acting like a publicly traded company which has a responsibility to make money for the owners/shareholders. And it’s not as if companies haven’t made products that only get a single production run.

I’m mostly just saying that Analogue’s wording isn’t clear which is the intended meaning. And I’m not going to speculate, knowing that they have communication issues with their customers.

 

Analogue should reissue the NT Mini. It's a perfect time since FPGA console's are in demand and it will compete well with Mister for it's multi-cores and multi output ports. The value is much better than RetroUSB AVS. Huge profits wasted.

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7 minutes ago, Kaide said:

 


So would I, but the lack of stock of the NT Mini for ~2 years, despite demand says they aren’t acting like a publicly traded company which has a responsibility to make money for the owners/shareholders. And it’s not as if companies haven’t made products that only get a single production run.

I’m mostly just saying that Analogue’s wording isn’t clear which is the intended meaning. And I’m not going to speculate, knowing that they have communication issues with their customers.

 

Yes, their history in this regard concerns me. However, we're a long ways past the Nt Mini, and that presented it's own challenges anyway.....like being milled out a chunk of aluminum. And honestly, I'm not even sure the dock will drop with the initial run anyway, and if it doesn't, then it doesn't much matter to me. For now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they're reading this, there are gonna be a lotta pissed of people like myself (who has purchased all of the products since the Mini) if we miss out on a limited run because scalpers buy up all their stock. Just sayin'

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Analogue should reissue the NT Mini. It's a perfect time since FPGA console's are in demand and it will compete well with Mister for it's multi-cores and multi output ports. The value is much better than RetroUSB AVS. Huge profits wasted.


I suspect the Analogue 8 is intended to cover that gap. That with the DAC would bring the whole product line into alignment, which makes a lot of sense to me.


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Just now, Kaide said:

 


I suspect the Analogue 8 is intended to cover that gap. That with the DAC would bring the whole product line into alignment, which makes a lot of sense to me.


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Yeah. I also posted my prediction regarding Analogue 8 a few days ago. I hope it turns out to be true.

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This is pretty much what I've always wanted in terms of features, so I'll try to pre-order it if I can.  :) 

 

But I do see a small problem though: Since the Dock doesn't seem to have a dedicated power connector, that means it will draw power from the handheld, which means the USB-C charger will have to remain plugged into the handheld while playing on a TV (so that the user doesn't have to worry about the lithium battery getting drained in mid-play). Not a big problem, I just hope the power connector on the handheld and the USB connectors on the Dock will be placed in a "friendly" matter (i.e. the power and controller cables shouldn't get easily entangled).

 

I'm going to assume the Dock is a sure thing, but I won't be holding my breath for those Lynx, NeoGeo Pocket and Game Gear cart adaptors. If they do come out, I may try to track down a few of the good games for those systems, otherwise it won't be a big loss. I just want to play GB/GBC/GBA games on this thing.

 

Edited by Pixelboy
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One big question mark is the "second FPGA". The primary FPGA needs to be a chonky boi if it's going to support the GBA, and you'd imagine it would have no problem at all supporting the SNES and Genesis. But they've been very careful to say that the *second* FPGA is available for core developers. I can't imagine the secondary FPGA being nearly as powerful as the primary. We may end up in a situation where the primary FPGA has more than enough power to implement any 16-bit console, but developers are limited to 8-bit consoles since they only get access to a smaller FPGA.

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1 minute ago, Pixelboy said:

This is pretty much what I've always wanted in terms of features, so I'll try to pre-order it if I can.  :) 

 

But I do see a small problem though: Since the Dock doesn't seem to have a dedicated power connector, that means it will draw power from the handheld, which means the USB-C charger will have to remain plugged into the handheld while playing on a TV (so that the player doesn't have to worry about the lithium battery getting drained in mid-play). Not a big problem, I just hope the power connector on the handheld and the USB connectors on the Dock will be placed in a "friendly" matter (i.e. the power and controller cables shouldn't get easily entangled).

 

I'm going to assume the Dock is a sure thing, but I won't be holding my breath for those Lynx, NeoGeo Pocket and Game Gear cart adaptors. If they do come out, I may try to track down a few of the good games for those systems, otherwise it won't be a big loss. I just want to play GB/GBC/GBA games on this thing.

 

Why are you making the assumption that the dock has no power input? They clearly show the console connecting to the dock via the USB-C port, so obviously you're not going to be connecting power directly to the handheld when it's docked.

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1 minute ago, Guspaz said:

One big question mark is the "second FPGA". The primary FPGA needs to be a chonky boi if it's going to support the GBA, and you'd imagine it would have no problem at all supporting the SNES and Genesis. But they've been very careful to say that the *second* FPGA is available for core developers. I can't imagine the secondary FPGA being nearly as powerful as the primary. We may end up in a situation where the primary FPGA has more than enough power to implement any 16-bit console, but developers are limited to 8-bit consoles since they only get access to a smaller FPGA.

Yep. The 200$ price tag does make me think the same thing.

1 minute ago, Guspaz said:

Why are you making the assumption that the dock has no power input? They clearly show the console connecting to the dock via the USB-C port, so obviously you're not going to be connecting power directly to the handheld when it's docked.

ninja'd. :P

 

They also don't mention the microSD card slot on the right side of the Pocket. Despite it being semi-important for folks using the second FPGA (and updating the firmware I assume). But it's there.

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Yeah. I also posted my prediction regarding Analogue 8 a few days ago. I hope it turns out to be true.

 

Yeah, Analogue 8 has got to be a successor to the Nt Mini but it seems to be a lot on their plate for now and I'd guess they have a lot more work to do. 2021?

 

I no longer think it'll just be a cost-reduced Nt Mini re-issue in a plastic shell. Seeing how Analogue is Analogue, I expect it'll have something big/new... like including an auxiliary FPGA. MiSTer for the masses!*

 

Glad they are embracing community-developed cores. Kev: Did anyone tag-team the cores with you or were you the exclusive core dev again? Perhaps Furrtek? MarshallH?

 

*Psst! Zimba 3000. atariage_icon_wink.gif

 

 

 

 

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If the auxiliary FPGA is as powerful as the Mister’s FPGA, then i can see the entire Mister community migrating to the Analogue Pocket to get better hardware support and portable functionality.  It is like a Nintendo Switch, but focused on high quality FPGA-based simulation of retro game systems in both portable and consolized modes.

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If the auxiliary FPGA is as powerful as the Mister’s FPGA, then i can see the entire Mister community migrating to the Analogue Pocket to get better hardware support and portable functionality.  It is like a Nintendo Switch, but focused on high quality FPGA-based simulation of retro game systems in both portable and consolized modes.
Oh, man... that MiSTer Portable project might have to stop and wait for more info before putting too much more effort there.
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On 11/1/2018 at 6:45 PM, StrikerTek said:

I've been following this thread for about a year, and have been following analogue since the Nt mini was announced. I'm a proud super Nt owner, and will certainly be getting a Mega Sg in the near future as well. This thread has been incredibly helpful with an abundance of information about jailbreaks and optimizing my super Nt setup, which I am very grateful to you all for.

 

I grew up playing games, started with NES, but my nostalgia is definitely highest for SNES, Genesis, and N64. I have owned nearly all of the major 1990's and 2000's consoles at some point, though have sold most of them over time. I am now in my early 30's, and have more disposable income but much less time to play games with work and family life. I am probably more on the casual side than most on this forum, but I'm happy to spend money on quality and convenience and still have a cart collection laying around. CRT's are long gone from my house, and I love what Analogue is doing with the features, quality and price point they are hitting with the super Nt and Mega Sg. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat, and it seems like from order numbers reported here, the super Nt and Mega Sg are selling much better than any of their previous products did.

 

Just wanted to offer my opinion on where Analogue should go next, as I've become a huge fan of this company and of Kevtris' work and dedication to perfection. I think most of the earlier consoles being discussed here such as TG16, colecovision, intellivision, PCE, Neo-geo, etc are all too niche to launch a dedicated product for, and would sell in far fewer numbers than the SNT or MSG. An Atari multiconsole may have potential but is really before my time for me to comment on.

 

To my knowledge, if Analogue wants to produce a system that will sell as much as their two most recent ones are, they have three logical options: N64, GBA, or PS1. I list those in order of preference. I think the market for PS1 may be less than some think because of the excellent backwards compatibility that both PS2 and PS3 provide, and as has been discussed here, the Bios issue may be technically difficult, as well as sourcing CD drives. The coming PS1 classic may also erode the market potential for a "Play Sn".

 

I have seen the Kevtris interview on MLIG when the SNT launched, and I remember him saying with current FPGA tech, N64 is likely not yet possible at a reasonable price point. I am hopeful this changes soon, as I am 100% sure this is the system with the fewest options out there, suboptimal current emulation, and would benefit the most from some Kevtris magic, especially if he can utilize the ultraHDMI tech which has been a game changer for N64 but has extremely limited availability and is cost prohibitive. If analogue could find a way to include goldeneye preloaded on a "64 Nt" like they did with super turrican, they will have a slam dunk hit that will sell more than anything else they've made to this point.

 

That leaves GBA, which Kevtris has said is technically feasible with current FPGA tech, and would be my pick for their next product. There's a ton of great GBA games, the game boy player for GC is difficult to come by, and Nintendo removed backwards compatibility for GBA from the DS a long time ago. I believe a "GB Nt" with support for GBA, GBC, and GB would sell just as much if not more than anything Analogue has made thus far. Playing GBA games on a modern TV could be a great experience and seems like an untapped market to me, as the only main option I'm aware of is GC + GB player + expensive GC component cables + component to HDMI converter. An FPGA portable GB unit would be a great option as well if they wanted to go that route.

I know I'm not the only one, but I'm feeling pretty good right now about calling this a year ago. I did miss on the name though, Analogue Pocket is much better. 

 

Can't wait until pre-orders are live!

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6 minutes ago, Guspaz said:

Why are you making the assumption that the dock has no power input? They clearly show the console connecting to the dock via the USB-C port, so obviously you're not going to be connecting power directly to the handheld when it's docked.

Oh, so you're saying the power plug is located at the bottom of the handheld? That means the plug is not only used for power, but also for transmitting graphics, sounds, and for external controller input. That works, I guess.  :)

 

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Just now, Pixelboy said:

Oh, so you're saying the power plug is located at the bottom of the handheld? That means the plug is not only used for power, but also for transmitting graphics, sounds, and for external controller input. That works, I guess.  :)

 

It's pretty much the main reason to use USB-C. If they are doing it to spec, they could use DisplayPort alt-mode of USB-C. That would have enough bandwidth for USB peripherals (for the controllers), and keep the video logic on the Pocket itself. The dock would just need to convert the DisplayPort signal to HDMI which can be done cheaply, and since audio is included in that signal, you're golden. 

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1 hour ago, jamon1567 said:

There is DAC support, and there is support for wired controllers (via dock) over USB. Not sure what if any lag USB introduces though....

Raphnet sells nice adapters like for using PS controllers or whatever over USB and they list the latency.  Looks like maybe between 2 and 6ms for USB depending on the adapter.  I would guess similar.  If they're actually faster when designed specifically for USB then 1ms or faster for sure since those adapters already show you can do as low as 2ms.

 

https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/wusbmote_1player_adapter_v2/index.php  

 

https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/psx_to_usb/index.php

Edited by Toth
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12 minutes ago, Kaide said:

It's pretty much the main reason to use USB-C. If they are doing it to spec, they could use DisplayPort alt-mode of USB-C. That would have enough bandwidth for USB peripherals (for the controllers), and keep the video logic on the Pocket itself. The dock would just need to convert the DisplayPort signal to HDMI which can be done cheaply, and since audio is included in that signal, you're golden. 

Analogue's DAC doesn't make use of normal HDMI signals though so I doubt it will be a standard even though they're using a USB-C plug.  It will probably output the raw signal or whatever the Super Nt and Mega SG output when it is connected to the DAC (or Dock)

Edited by Toth
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Just now, Toth said:

Analogue's DAC doesn't make use of normal HDMI signals though so I doubt it will be a standard even though they're using a USB-C plug.

Hence the "if". 

 

But generally, things will get harder if they veer too much from what's already available, or outright violate the USB-C spec. It looks like there's an official HDMI alt-mode now for USB-C, which would probably work out quite well for what they are doing, even with the DAC. It would make the dock into something that's a mostly passive box.

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Oh, so you're saying the power plug is located at the bottom of the handheld? That means the plug is not only used for power, but also for transmitting graphics, sounds, and for external controller input. That works, I guess.  atariage_icon_smile.gif
 
Never would've assumed otherwise. Where have you been to not immediately associate USB-C with power and HDMI? ;)

Think about the Switch or the MacBook with a single USB-C port... and so many phones using USB-C for power, video, HID, and audio. It's what USB-C always promised and what we expect from a device like this.

Most electronics stores have USB-C power/HDMI docks of some kind, whether that's a hub for a MacBook or a dock for a Nintendo Switch. Heck, I even see this stuff at flea markets and salvage stores. Enough phones have dropped the headphone jack that you're likely to find USB-C headphones too.
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Out of curiosity, did the NT Mini's Game Boy core have any Super Game Boy functionality?

 

I'm thinking mostly just the color palettes and perhaps custom borders, rather than the SNES audio like Donkey Kong had a bit of (Which I'm sure the NT Mini's Game Boy core didn't support). 

Edited by Atariboy
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33 minutes ago, CZroe said:

Never would've assumed otherwise. Where have you been to not immediately associate USB-C with power and HDMI? ;)

Think about the Switch or the MacBook with a single USB-C port... and so many phones using USB-C for power, video, HID, and audio. It's what USB-C always promised and what we expect from a device like this.

Most electronics stores have USB-C power/HDMI docks of some kind, whether that's a hub for a MacBook or a dock for a Nintendo Switch. Heck, I even see this stuff at flea markets and salvage stores. Enough phones have dropped the headphone jack that you're likely to find USB-C headphones too.

 

I'm a retro-gamer. I'm still trying to wrap my head around S-Video.   ;)

 

Seriously, I don't know much about this technical stuff, as I don't keep up with it. Those standards evolve so fast anyway, and so does the tech speak that goes along with it. I've never owned a smartphone and my last "modern" console was a Game Cube. I'm sure tons of people who frequent these boards know a lot more than I do about USB connector standards and whatnot. I'm a sucker for plug-and-play devices that "just work".

 

Edited by Pixelboy
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3 minutes ago, Pixelboy said:

 

I'm a retro-gamer. I'm still trying to wrap my head around S-Video.   ;)

 

Seriously, I don't know much about this technical stuff, as I don't keep up with it. Those standards evolve so fast anyway, and so does the tech speak that goes along with it. I've never owned a smartphone and my last "modern" console was a Game Cube. I'm sure tons of people who frequent these boards know a lot more than I do about USB connector standards and whatnot. I'm a sucker for plug-and-play devices that "just work".

 

They already have a SNES core, this console will require a GB core (refined to a greater degree than the NT Mini's), and this thing will have two FPGAs, one of which should be able to handle the SNES without any issues (if it can handle the 32-bit GBA, surely it can handle the SNES). So I don't see why they couldn't do a full-blown SGB implementation, with SGB features supported.

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Wow.  This thing is sexy AF.  If Kevtris is here, hey!  Thanks for this!  That GBA core musta been a bit of work?  I'd love to hear how doing the GBA core differed from the others... was it just more complex?  Anyways, is it your first 32-bit core?  I just gotta say 'wow' I am impressed with this and this is insta-buy for me, especially since it has the KEVTRIStm FPGA cores and just look at it!  Mmmmmmm.  Mmmmmm.  MMMMMM!!

 

It will also be super cool to hook this up to my TV.  Yay!  I literally am gonna crack open a good glass of wine tonight, toast Kevtris and analogue, and then play on my current Analogue systems in joy.  Possibly drunken joy!

 

Edit: "Crack open a good glass of wine" wouldn't quite work so well.  It's morning haha

Edited by brentonius
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