FPGA Based Videogame System

[spoonman]

19 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Last time I checked Chiptune artists don't use those original GBA consoles.  They use Gameboys or Gameboy Advance SPs.  I think they would be turned off by a OG GBA like design.

Most "professional chiptune composers" don't actually use a Game Boy to compose. It's more of a retro visual throwback to add in with other audio tools. You can also get Nanoloops ($5) for iOS. 

 

Audio apps are infinitely better with touch screen controls. I used to incorporate a couple DS's running Korg DS-10 into my live playing. I'm still blown away by how much versatility and value they managed to pack into that cheap DS cartridge.

 

And why would be turned off by the GBA and not the SP (which doesn't even have a proper 3.5mm headphone jack). I'm think most of them use old school DMG-01, modded with pitch wheel, and again, just as another audio tool, as well as for show. I'm not sure Analogue is targeting that crowd. 

[Intense.Mark]

5 hours ago, Guspaz said:

Super Nt announcement: October 16th, 2017

Mega Sg announcement: October 16th, 2018

Pocket announcement: October 16th, 2019

 

Is it really that hard to predict when they'll announce the Analogue 8? Though they did tease additional announcements in the near-future, so who knows.

Yeah this is what I meant. Analogue introduces one product per year. If it's a re-release of an 8 bit multi core system like analogue nt mini, then I don't think they need to wait until October 16, 2020. Mister FPGA doesn't have a competition right now and it's the best time to release it. If Analogue 8 turns out to be a different product, then it make sense to introduce it next year. Kevtris alone can't work on 2 different products at once.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Intense.Mark

[Atariboy]

They're not teasing a product that's a full year away from announcement. Obviously they have some further exciting news to be unveiled in the weeks ahead. 

[PlaysWithWolves]

On 10/16/2019 at 11:24 AM, Kaide said:

I’m curious what FPGA it uses, since they can be small or large. Knowing which one would tell us what cores are even possible to port to the second FPGA.

 

ExtremeTech and ArsTechnica are both reporting this:

 

Quote

Christopher Taber tells Ars the Analogue Pocket will sport the same Altera Cyclone V FPGA found in its previous Super Nt and Mega Sg, plus a second Cyclone 10 FPGA "just for developers to develop and port their own cores."

 

[Newsdee]

It looks like that is a mix-up. Kevtris stated the FPGA open for devs is the Cyclone V, which frankly makes more sense.

 

The Cyclone 10 is probably smaller and used for the scaler and other admin tasks (e.g. load cores and maybe ROMs from SD card).

 

But yes, there are both a Cyclone V and Cyclone 10 in there.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Newsdee

[CZroe]

It looks like that is a mix-up. Kevtris stated the FPGA open for devs is the Cyclone V, which frankly makes more sense.  

The Cyclone 10 is probably smaller and used for the scaler and other admin tasks (e.g. load cores and maybe ROMs from SD card).

 

But yes, there are both a Cyclone V and Cyclone 10 in there.

 

Where did Kevtris say this? Is there an interview?

 

Absolutely everyone else is saying the Cyclone 10 is the one for community development.

 

 

[CZroe]

Yeah this is what I meant. Analogue introduces one product per year.

Analogue DAC and Analogue Pocket are coming the same year. Though it's really an accessory instead of a full product, it did get the full introduction and press treatment.

[Newsdee]

10 minutes ago, CZroe said:

Where did Kevtris say this? Is there an interview?

Analogue channel in the Retro Gaming Discord

[CZroe]

Analogue channel in the Retro Gaming Discord

Well, in light of the open core (whichever it is), it is going to be really weird if our benevolent "unofficial" firmware benefactor calls his ROM-loading FW a "jailbreak" if that FPGA remains locked down.

[Newsdee]

1 hour ago, CZroe said:

Well, in light of the open core (whichever it is), it is going to be really weird if our benevolent "unofficial" firmware benefactor calls his ROM-loading FW a "jailbreak" if that FPGA remains locked down.

Not really, I can see the JB being a way to allow the built in cores to be a little more flexible. 

[Toth]

So, if previous cores do somehow get ported to this (or even if other developers fill in the holes that would remain without the NES/SNES) does this product surpass the original Zimba 3000 eventually?  Won't this basically make all of their previous products obsolete (if you own the full package of the Pocket, dock and DAC)?

Edited October 18, 2019 by Toth

[jamon1567]

5 hours ago, Atariboy said:

They're not teasing a product that's a full year away from announcement. Obviously they have some further exciting news to be unveiled in the weeks ahead. 

Where did you find that quote btw? I read a handful of articles the day of and never saw it myself.

[CZroe]

Not really, I can see the JB being a way to allow the built in cores to be a little more flexible. 

The terminology has arguably been misapplied since the original Nt Mini "jailbreak." The word is pretty descriptive. In the context of unofficial software, it traditionally means removing, working around, or disabling the restrictions in place that prevent end-users from running their own native software/firmware. With the Nt Mini, Kevtris was not an end-user. As the creator, he was never subject to those restrictions in the first place. His "jailbreak" firmware did not remove the restrictions for other end-users regardless of how many restrictions it removed from the software itself. When you jailbreak an iPhone, for example, Cydia (unofficial app store) or iOS tweaks are not the jailbreak... they are the result of it. The jailbreak is what enabled those.

Point is, using the open core enable more flexibility for the built-in cores would be even less of a "jailbreak." #1, the second FPGA is already open (no "jail," so to speak). #2, the FPGA that isn't open to developers and the firmware that controls access to it is still locked ("jailed") from users.

Now, this isn't to say that we won't get a real jailbreak this time or on the Analogue 8 as some sort of path to Zimba 3K. This may have been the plan all along: partner with Analogue and cultivate their relationship through a few product cycles as a way to make what he always wanted to make. MiSTer is probably getting uncomfortably close so they are already taking steps to move in that direction.

Let's assume Kev is behind the jailbreak FW: Analogue still can't be seen as marketing to users who merely want to steal games, so how do you blow the lid off with support for all of Kev's cores without making it appear that it was always meant to be used that way? By opening it up to the community, of course! If, in the course of that, all the other cores land on the Analogue 8, Analogue will have comfortably distanced themselves from that and still have a marketable console that remains attractive next to MiSTer.

What would be even cooler is if the Analogue 8 is compatible with MiSTer cores, perhaps even using the same FPGA. MiSTer, for the masses! Not likely though, since Kev seems to keep his distance from that project to avoid the appearance of borrowing from it.

[Intense.Mark]

2 hours ago, CZroe said:

Analogue DAC and Analogue Pocket are coming the same year. Though it's really an accessory instead of a full product, it did get the full introduction and press treatment.

Historically Analogue announces one "console" product per year. The dock is an accessory.

[Intense.Mark]

6 hours ago, Atariboy said:

They're not teasing a product that's a full year away from announcement. Obviously they have some further exciting news to be unveiled in the weeks ahead. 

Historically, Analogue never teased a product that's a full year away from announcement. 

[CZroe]

Historically, Analogue never teased a product that's a full year away from announcement. 

It may not be another product they're teasing. People only assume it's the Analogue 8 because they trademarked it along with Analogue Pocket. I read their statement and figured it could be some unannounced functionality for the Pocket, dock, DAC, etc.

[Intense.Mark]

2 minutes ago, CZroe said:

12 minutes ago, Intense.Mark said:

Historically, Analogue never teased a product that's a full year away from announcement. 

It may not be another product they're teasing. People only assume it's the Analogue 8 because they trademarked it along with Analogue Pocket. I read their statement and figured it could be some unannounced functionality for the Pocket, dock, DAC, etc.

Yeah probably an additional feature or another accessory for the pocket. Some think that the dock is a product. What I meant is that historically, Analogue announces one "console" product within a year.

[Guspaz]

32 minutes ago, CZroe said:

What would be even cooler is if the Analogue 8 is compatible with MiSTer cores, perhaps even using the same FPGA. MiSTer, for the masses! Not likely though, since Kev seems to keep his distance from that project to avoid the appearance of borrowing from it.

Never going to happen. The FPGA alone in the MiSTer costs $246 USD, let alone the rest of the cost of a console. People are building the MiSTer out of dev boards that are sold at a huge loss in hopes of driving business. Kevtris said the actual cost of the DE-10 Nano would be something like $400-500 if you tried to build one, and that's not even considering a profit margin selling the thing.

 

Analogue would not sell very many consoles if they charged $600-700 for it.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Guspaz

[D0gPoundGaming]

So im thinking about picking up the 8bitdo wireless controller for my super NT, has anybody tried it? Is it any good or is it trash ? Is it worth the $40 ?

[CZroe]

Never going to happen. The FPGA alone in the MiSTer costs $246 USD, let alone the rest of the cost of a console. People are building the MiSTer out of dev boards that are sold at a huge loss in hopes of driving business. Kevtris said the actual cost of the DE-10 Nano would be something like $400-500 if you tried to build one, and that's not even considering a profit margin selling the thing.
 
Analogue would not sell very many consoles if they charged $600-700 for it.

Yeah, I know. Thanks though.

Still, most of the cores would likely run fine on a version of that FPGA with fewer LEs. The FPGA is probably going to come down in cost eventually and Analogue certainly wouldn't be paying the per-unit price. A "do everything" console from Analogue with MiSTer functionality likely could get away with an increased cost, though I'd expect $299 to be the ceiling... otherwise it'd be as niche as the original Analogue Nt and definitely not "MiSTer for the masses." If Zimba 3000 is going to cost $400-$500, well, Kev may be undeterred ($400-$500, it is).

[CZroe]

So im thinking about picking up the 8bitdo wireless controller for my super NT, has anybody tried it? Is it any good or is it trash ? Is it worth the $40 ?

I like mine but the D-pad is almost as bad as the NES Classic Edition (diagonals too sensitive). Easy fix though: It's improved by swapping in an original SNES D-pad or covering part of the contacts with stickers ("tape trick").

[Guspaz]

Even if it were the exact same FPGA, you'd need to port the cores because the pinout wouldn't be identical, even more so with a similar but smaller FPGA. So you'd need to port the cores no matter what. That's also assuming the mister cores don't rely on anything running on the ARM CPUs that FPGA has onboard.

 

FPGAs... don't expect them to come down in price much. They're not like CPUs.

 

$400-500 was the cost to build the stuffed board, I believe, not the cost to build a polished console out of it, with a profit margin on top of that.

 

I think Analogue has realized that staying under $200 leads to a great deal more revenue due to much higher unit sales. I don't think they'd put out a $299 console.

[Intense.Mark]

24 minutes ago, D0gPoundGaming said:

So im thinking about picking up the 8bitdo wireless controller for my super NT, has anybody tried it? Is it any good or is it trash ? Is it worth the $40 ?

If you have additional funds, I suggest you get a SNES retro receiver and an SN30 Pro Plus. It's overkill for the SNES/Super NT but I don't have any D Pad issues.

[D0gPoundGaming]

Oh ok i would have to look into how to properly do the tape trick or i can also look into getting the sn30 pro plus. Im gonna do my research on the sn30 though. Thanks for the Feed back guys it's much appreciated

[SegaSnatcher]

It seems some of the MiSTer crowd feels a bit threatened by the Pocket's more open nature to bring in open source cores.  Too many doom and gloomers.  If people really cared about open source then they would want these cores to be on every platform possible.  For every MiSTer sold there will be like 4+ Pockets sold.  There will be a hell of a lot more people playing games on Pocket and how awesome would it be to take some of those great open source cores with you on a handheld?  

Well, at least one FPGA core author seems semi interested in the concept.