FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kaide]

5 minutes ago, GarrettCRW said:

The SegaScope 3-D (and the Famicom 3D System, for that matter) uses a shutter-based system that doesn't work with LCD TVs because it's designed around CRT technology.

Which, if you could convert the output to a form supported by HDTVs (there's a couple different formats you can use here at 30fps), it doesn't matter too much since you could use the TV's shutter glasses instead (or polarized glasses in LG's case). 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kaide

[CZroe]

 

 

 

The SegaScope 3-D (and the Famicom 3D System, for that matter) uses a shutter-based system that doesn't work with LCD TVs because it's designed around CRT technology.

Right, but the Mega Sg could conceivably output the alternate frames over an HDMI 3D format. Unless it doesn't support the needed HDMI version or something similar (like the way Kevtris implement it), I don't see why not... which is why I asked. It's definitely possible for an FPGA Family Computer or Master System to translate the alternate frames to 3D HDMI, though it may require a framebuffer with more memory than Kevtris allotted or something. Heck, it's even possible to take the red/blue 3D from games like 3-D World Runner and translate that, though I don't think it'd be possible with the Hi-Def NES duh to implementation.

 

[seastalker]

Maybe I should simplify my question by starting with original hardware instead of the MegaSG.  What hardware is needed to play Sega 3d master system games on a Sega Genesis?  Do I need an original power base converter so I have MyCard access for the 3-d adapter or is there a modern option? 

[phoenixdownita]

9 hours ago, seastalker said:

Maybe I should simplify my question by starting with original hardware instead of the MegaSG.  What hardware is needed to play Sega 3d master system games on a Sega Genesis?  Do I need an original power base converter so I have MyCard access for the 3-d adapter or is there a modern option? 

According to https://gametrog.com/sega-powerbase-converter-information-specs/ the answer is yes, confirmed here too https://www.sega-16.com/2008/05/power-base-converter-buyers-guide/

 

NOTE: the circuit has been fully RE so probably kevtris can amend the SMS adapter to support it or create a new one with the plug for the 3D glasses:  http://www.smspower.org/forums/14635-SegaCardFor3DGlassesCircuit#103365

Technically, depending on available power sources he could even try to repurpose the audio jack in front of the MegaSG but it may no be possible, after all the 3D glasses require a voltage pump (~13V)

[kevtris]

I tested the 3D glasses with the DAC and it does work fine using a power base converter and the SMS x7 cartridge.  It doesn't work too hot on HDMI though

[phoenixdownita]

21 hours ago, kevtris said:

I tested the 3D glasses with the DAC and it does work fine using a power base converter and the SMS x7 cartridge.  It doesn't work too hot on HDMI though

Any chance to release a premium SMS adapter for the MegaSg with the 3D glasses jack (and circuitry) already built in?

[seastalker]

phoenixdownita, that would be spectacular! Especially if paired with a more modern (and cost effective) set of glasses: " 3D Wired LCD Shutter glasses- for 3D Viewing of any system with a stereo glasses jack by 3dtvcorp"

[spoonman]

Does anyone know if this multi 4 port USB adapter would be optimal to use with both of the Analogue Mega Sg, Super Nt, as well as the RetroUSB AVS systems?

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-RAVPower-Charging-Compatible-Smartphone/dp/B07FFS7671/

I assume it does, but I had a couple of USB wall plugs which didn't seem to work correctly with the Super Nt. 

Quote

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by spoonman

[Toth]

Although I don't have it, if the USB ports can output 2A then there is no reason it shouldn't work.  If it doesn't work then it is defective or not reliably putting out 2A at all times from the ports. The Mega Sg wants 2A according to the manual.  If it doesn't work I would simply return as defective and then you won't pay shipping fee to return. 

 

I think the only issue is how does it supply the power when a different number of ports are being used? "smart 2.0 technology that detects all connected devices and adjusts the charging output accordingly" Are they all 2A all the time or does that change if you have 1,  2 or 3 devices plugged in and being used?  Maybe 2 of the ports are 3A and the other 2 are only 1A if you have 4 things plugged in and turned on at the same time?  All you can do is try it out and plug a couple things in while you are using one of your consoles.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Toth

[Enragedwhale]

I use an Anker powerport 5 for my Mega SG, Super Nt and an AVS with no issues. Never tried turning them all on at once though.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00VTI8K9K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TLy4Db4JY30DH

Edited November 29, 2019 by Enragedwhale

[ApolloBoy]

1 hour ago, Enragedwhale said:

I use an Anker powerport 5 for my Mega SG, Super Nt and an AVS with no issues. Never tried turning them all on at once though.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00VTI8K9K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TLy4Db4JY30DH

This is also what I use for my FPGA consoles as well as my 800XL, I have it attached to the back of my entertainment center in a way that I can easily get to it. Works great!

[phoenixdownita]

20 hours ago, seastalker said:

phoenixdownita, that would be spectacular! Especially if paired with a more modern (and cost effective) set of glasses: " 3D Wired LCD Shutter glasses- for 3D Viewing of any system with a stereo glasses jack by 3dtvcorp"

ahhh, I bought one pair of them years ago on eBay for less than 20US$ shipped, it arrived with one of the LCD shutters having a smudge of black so the seller sent a second pair, they both work as expected (the one with the smudge does not have negative effects at all in the end) so I got them for about 10US$ each.

I can tell you they are not worth 40US$ each, they are cheaply made, by any means they are cheaper than attempting to find anything directly from that era, but quality products they are not ... so told they play their part for light usage (not that anyone could play those 3D games for hours on end).

 

Fun fact, the shutter glasses work for both the SMS and the Famicom, the Famicom adapter allows 2 glasses to be plugged at the same time so you can share that kind of 3D experience with some other gentle being around.

[Andromeda Stardust]

There are different, incompatible 3d systems though. Some TVs were plasma or oled with alternate lines of polarized data cutting the effective brightness in half and temporal resolution to 540p when viewing 3d, but they worked with cheap passive glasses.

 

Other sets doubled the refresh rate with active shutter glasses.

 

It should be possible to sync vintage shutter glasses to a modern flat screen (using either stock hardware or the fpga system) provided the display refresh is synced to the video signal.

 

You would need to calibrate the shutter glasses to match the lag on the tv. Also polarized filters on the shuttered glasses would cause problems on lcd sets.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Kosmic Stardust

[CZroe]

There are different, incompatible 3d systems though. Some TVs were plasma or oled with alternate lines of polarized data cutting the effective brightness in half and temporal resolution to 540p when viewing 3d, but they worked with cheap passive glasses.
 
Other sets doubled the refresh rate with active shutter glasses.
 
It should be possible to sync vintage shutter glasses to a modern flat screen (using either stock hardware or the fpga system) provided the display refresh is synced to the video signal.
 
You would need to calibrate the shutter glasses to match the lag on the tv. Also polarized filters on the shuttered glasses would cause problems on lcd sets.

Yeah, but why bother getting it to work with the vintage glasses when you could just take the alternate frames and output a 3D format a 3D TV understands?

Pretty sure the polarized 3D TVs with passive glasses mostly use LCD. It's the same trick the 3DS uses except they aren't abusing limited viewing angles for each column to show a person in the sweet spot glasses-free 3D (still putting different perspectives on alternate columns of lines).

There are polarized projectors too. That's possible to do with any kind of projection by doubling up and putting a different polarization filter orientation on each, though the screen surface kinda matters too.

Also, it's the per-eye resolution that gets reduced when you use polarization for passive 3D on a fixed-pixel display. If the TV had double the supported resolution it wouldn't have to reduce it but I don't think anyone made 2048p TVs for passive 3D at 1080p (or one with twice the horizontal resolution).

[phoenixdownita]

25 minutes ago, CZroe said:

... but why bother getting it to work with the vintage glasses ....

Let me think .... 'cause it's maybe 5US$ worth of components that kevtris can literally vomit on the current MegaSG SMS adapter to get it going?

 

[CZroe]

Let me think .... 'cause it's maybe 5US$ worth of components that kevtris can literally vomit on the current MegaSG SMS adapter to get it going?

He's talking about getting them to work on a modern TV, not through the DAC. That's a whole 'nother ball game that requires more engineering and tech. For digital outputs, why not use the 3D HDMI standards that already exist?

 

[spoonman]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:09 PM, CZroe said:

 

 

 

 

Right, but the Mega Sg could conceivably output the alternate frames over an HDMI 3D format. Unless it doesn't support the needed HDMI version or something similar (like the way Kevtris implement it), I don't see why not... which is why I asked. It's definitely possible for an FPGA Family Computer or Master System to translate the alternate frames to 3D HDMI, though it may require a framebuffer with more memory than Kevtris allotted or something. Heck, it's even possible to take the red/blue 3D from games like 3-D World Runner and translate that, though I don't think it'd be possible with the Hi-Def NES duh to implementation.

 

 

It would be amazing to play SegaScope 3D games on an active shutter 3D HD display.

These PlayStation 24" 3D displays were dirt cheap for a while too. For $99 they included a pair of active shutter glasses, and a copy of one of the best looking 3D games too.  

 

If it included an SBS mode it would guarantee compatibility with just aboiut every stereoscopic 3D compatible display. 

 

 

[CZroe]

 
It would be amazing to play SegaScope 3D games on an active shutter 3D HD display.
These PlayStation 24" 3D displays were dirt cheap for a while too. For $99 they included a pair of active shutter glasses, and a copy of one of the best looking 3D games too.  

 
If it included an SBS mode it would guarantee compatibility with just aboiut every stereoscopic 3D compatible display. 
 
 

Exactly. Unless there is some issue with frame buffering or HDMI version, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, but Kev hasn't said anything about the possibility to my knowledge.

[seastalker]

A bit off-topic but I wish SegaScope 3D games would be released as an Official Sega compilation title with the complete library for the 3DS. They made "A" Space Harrier game, but not the original SMS one. Since you can play Space Harrier 3-D in 2d on a SMS (unlocked after beating the game I think), I need to find a patched rom or maybe a save state I can load from my MegaSD. Has anyone made 2-D rom conversions for the library? 

 

Of course I'd love to be surprised by a MegaSG or MegaSD firmware update to eliminate the 32x hardware. Though if FPGA space limits this [likely], an idea for FPGA 32x hardware I keep having is inspired by the MegaSD's shell design.  Perhaps my favorite [theoretical] solution would be to fit a 32x into it's own FPGA cartridge. Similar to the MegaSD's Virtua Racing design, I think a FPGA 32x in a Sonic and Knuckles style case would be the ultimate! Think about it: one could plug 32x or Genesis games into it like Sonic 2 stacked in Sonic and Knuckles. You could plug in your MegaSD on top of the 32x cart for the whole 32x library, Sega CD, etc. or use the upcoming (discussed) adapter to plug the MegaSD into the expansion port for the few 32x+CD games.  This form factor would be sleek (goodbye mushroom repairs), allow real 32x carts for those that need it, get around the 32x/cd combo titles, and could be used on original hardware.  Somehow I'd see Terraonion more likely than Analogue releasing this but would buy from either. 

 

 

[+grips03]

Will Analogue Pocket have SD / Micro SD slot? 

How long will it take for NGPC cart adapter to ship?

Will the NGPC cart adapter, dock + USB controller all be supported at the same time?

Any chance for Wonderswan support?

[Kaide]

Will Analogue Pocket have SD / Micro SD slot? 

[Pixelboy]

So we've reached December and no reveal of what the Analogue 8 is. Bah, no real problem there, they should concentrate on the Pocket for now, especially if they're serious about doing cores for the Lynx and NeoGeo Pocket. The Analogue 8 can wait. 

 

[seastalker]

Pixelboy, I was just thinking the other day about Analogue's future. If the 8 is what many of us think it is (Kevtris's Zimba 3000 without the Genesis/SNES 16 bit cores), with the pocket covering handhelds, there is not much left to do (in my opinion). Maybe a future FPGA chip can price/performance be a viable option to handle Saturn/Dreamcast. The only stone left un-turned would be computers. Like the Mega 65 and Spectrum Next projects, maybe a future product would be an all in one retro computer? If the Pocket is shaped like an OG gameboy, I wonder what divisive design an Analogue computer would take. To avoid Atari/Commodore/Apple wars, maybe the safe option would be IBM, with a Model M keyboard inspiration. Imagine a tiny beam spring keyboard!

[Pixelboy]

30 minutes ago, seastalker said:

The only stone left un-turned would be computers. Like the Mega 65 and Spectrum Next projects, maybe a future product would be an all in one retro computer?

Given that the Analogue Pocket will be open to other core developers, and that the Pocket's docking station will feature USB ports, I would think this will be the platform to create computer cores, although I'd say it wouldn't be a perfect fit since you'd need to keep the unit docked whenever you want to use a keyboard, and the Pocket will surely be used more as a "multi-handheld" portable gaming unit.

 

If the Analogue 8 is another FPGA offering as most are expecting, it should also be open to core developers and feature USB ports. So that will be the proper device to develop computer cores on. But I'm just speculating at this point, of course. 

 

[seastalker]

I can't imagine playing vintage computer cores with a modern keyboard like Logitech or those RGB lit cherry switches. I'd want to mod something like putting the Analogue dock and DAC in an Atari XEGS case where the Pocket fits in the XEGS cartridge slot, and then plug in the keyboard for computer cores.  I wouldn't butcher a XEGS to fit the cartridge port, and I lack the skills to make a 'Keyrah' conversion of the keyboard to USB. DB9 ports would be nice. I at least have my imagination skills.

 

If Kevtris reads this: if you ever make a dream computer version of Zimba 3000, please consider the XEGS and its hybrid console/computer design as inspiration.