FPGA Based Videogame System

[newtmonkey]

@Steven Pendleton

 

Interesting, so this is also a problem with the Mega SG?  I guess it's a quirk with the new scanline engine for both systems, sadly.

The issue you described with the middle third being brighter is exactly what I am seeing (and like you said, it is only really noticeably when the entire background is a single bright color).

 

[Steven Pendleton]

Just now, newtmonkey said:

@Steven Pendleton

 

Interesting, so this is also a problem with the Mega SG?  I guess it's a quirk with the new scanline engine for both systems, sadly.

The issue you described with the middle third being brighter is exactly what I am seeing (and like you said, it is only really noticeably when the entire background is a single bright color).

 

Well, the Mega Sg scanlines got implemented on the Super Nt, and this happened before I got my Super Nt, so I don't know what they were like before. OSSC scanlines are much better and I can actually set them up to resemble my Trinitron relatively well. It's not exact, but it looks good enough.

[newtmonkey]

@Steven Pendleton

 

Scanlines also look great on my Framemeister and retroUSB AVS on the same TV, so it definitely sounds like its the new scanline engine, then.  It's a shame, cuz it really looks awful imo at 720p, and even though the latest firmware has improved the 1080p scanlines a lot, they are still too sharp/thin.

Edited April 3, 2020 by newtmonkey

[Steven Pendleton]

3 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

@Steven Pendleton

 

Scanlines also look great on my Framemeister and retroUSB AVS on the same TV, so it definitely sounds like its the new scanline engine, then.  It's a shame, cuz it really looks awful imo at 720p, and even though the latest firmware has improved the 1080p scanlines a lot, they are still too sharp/thin.

Yes, the 1080 scanlines are kind of weird, too. I figure if they both look weird, I might as well run games at my display's highest resolution (1080p) rather than 720, or just use my real Mega Drive, especially since I can use my Super 32X with that since I don't have the DAC. The Super 32X still gives me some trouble with the OSSC timings, but I'm getting close to figuring it out, I think.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[Kismet]

Not to start complaining but I have two issues come up with the SuperNT

 

1. Firmware 4.9, 1080p (50 and 60) no longer works through the Micomsoft SC-512N1 (FPGA HDMI PCIe 2.0 capture card), it used to. And the strange thing is, the capture card is showing a sync lock at 1080p.

2. Mechanically the cartridge slot is allowing the SD2SNES and Super Gameboy to wobble and it's making it fail.

 

My guess the problem with 1 is that something has changed. Capturing from the card just shows "no signal", meanwhile the monitor attached still works. Unless this is a driver issue with the card, I'm not sure why 720p would work and not 1080p. The current driver is 1.1.0.188.5, 2020.02.03.

 

The problem with 2, is something I mentioned way back at the beginning when I got a defective Super Gameboy, it doesn't fit in the cartridge slot quite right, allowing the edge connector to wobble, easily. This also happens with the SD2SNES, so even moving the SuperNT causes it to lockup.

 

[CZroe]

Hybrid scanlines are supposed to blend in bright areas of solid colors. That's what distinguishes them from non-hybrid scanlines. It's mimicking how TVs would bloom in bright areas while still giving you that perceived resolution bump or AA effect you get on jaggy diagonals or stair-stepped curves.

[Drunk_Caterpillar]

2 hours ago, CZroe said:

Hybrid scanlines are supposed to blend in bright areas of solid colors. That's what distinguishes them from non-hybrid scanlines. It's mimicking how TVs would bloom in bright areas while still giving you that perceived resolution bump or AA effect you get on jaggy diagonals or stair-stepped curves.

See, I don’t get this. I have a PVM and a BVM and neither of them “bloom” in the highlights. TBH the scan lines are their most visible in the brighter portions of the screen and are completely absent in the low end. I think it’s a cool hazy look but accurate it ain’t. 

[gulps]

On 3/12/2020 at 3:54 PM, Toth said:

How did you diagnose and fix your problem?

The diagnosis was easy like due the break came from the power control / regulation.

 

Every time I did a second time bootup when shuted down. It didn't boot like it needs to dischargue a capacitor.

 

My suposition was that the fail was origined from a bad disconnection from the PSU cable when the console was on. Like an electric crossing. But I can't prove it.

 

It cost me more than two months to find the problem. But finally was more easy to repair than expected.

 

Now works fine

 

[StuOhQ]

5 hours ago, Drunk_Caterpillar said:

See, I don’t get this. I have a PVM and a BVM and neither of them “bloom” in the highlights. TBH the scan lines are their most visible in the brighter portions of the screen and are completely absent in the low end. I think it’s a cool hazy look but accurate it ain’t. 

You would see a lot more bloom on consumer CRTs than professional equipment.

[Steven Pendleton]

I have to get within about 1 or 2 feet from my Trinitron to see the scanlines, and even then, the vertical ones stand out way more than the horizontal ones do. The vertical ones are pretty noticeable at point-blank in dark areas (dark blue, etc.), but become invisible when you are more than 2 feet away. Can't see any scanlines at all in lighter areas like white no matter how close I am.

[CZroe]

See, I don’t get this. I have a PVM and a BVM and neither of them “bloom” in the highlights. TBH the scan lines are their most visible in the brighter portions of the screen and are completely absent in the low end. I think it’s a cool hazy look but accurate it ain’t. 

A PVM or BVM is not a TV. Granted, typical CRT TVs usually didn't have visible scanlines, but some did. The hybrid scanlines routines originally came from UltraHDMI where MarshallH even simulated HV anode sag from cheap CRTs with bad power stability that caused the image to grow and shrink with the overall brightness of the display. Clearly, MarshallH wasn't trying to replicate a high-end professional CRT with all this... he's trying to get that look users might remember when playing on that consumer CRT of their youth.

 

Now, another benefit of blending the areas of solid color is that it maintains more of the original brightness and there is less need for gamma boost with many of the benefits people like about scanlines. Areas of solid colors are indistinguishable between low resolution and high resolution until you get to the edge, which is where the scanlines become visible for the positive impact they have on low resolutions there. This is how hybrid scanlines are supposed to work and the reason they work the way they do.

 

That said, integer scaling is still a must for properly simulating scanlines and neither the Mega Sg nor the Super Nt gets this right at every resolution. Since 720p displays practically don't exist, getting a true integer scale with proper hybrid scanlines is usually impossible for Super Nt/Mega Sg owners... unless it has been fixed in the last update or two which I haven't looked at yet.

 

You would see a lot more bloom on consumer CRTs than professional equipment.

Exactly. I did say "It's mimicking how [CRT] TVs would bloom in bright areas" and a PVM or BVM isn't a "TV."

[Steven Pendleton]

19 hours ago, Kismet said:

Not to start complaining but I have two issues come up with the SuperNT

 

1. Firmware 4.9, 1080p (50 and 60) no longer works through the Micomsoft SC-512N1 (FPGA HDMI PCIe 2.0 capture card), it used to. And the strange thing is, the capture card is showing a sync lock at 1080p.

2. Mechanically the cartridge slot is allowing the SD2SNES and Super Gameboy to wobble and it's making it fail.

 

My guess the problem with 1 is that something has changed. Capturing from the card just shows "no signal", meanwhile the monitor attached still works. Unless this is a driver issue with the card, I'm not sure why 720p would work and not 1080p. The current driver is 1.1.0.188.5, 2020.02.03.

 

The problem with 2, is something I mentioned way back at the beginning when I got a defective Super Gameboy, it doesn't fit in the cartridge slot quite right, allowing the edge connector to wobble, easily. This also happens with the SD2SNES, so even moving the SuperNT causes it to lockup.

 

Are you using Europe/Japan carts or US carts? The US carts are way bigger than the Japanese and European carts and the Super Nt cart slot fits both. Since I live in Japan and never had a US SNES, I have mostly Japanese games, but I do have 1 US game: the R-Type 3 + Super R-Type cart. That wobbles considerably less than my Japanese carts do, but it does still wobble. Let my clean the dust off of my Super Nt so I can find the power button and I'll risk breaking my system/carts by making them wobble to see if it crashes.

 

Well, that was interesting. I moved the cart back and forth a whole lot in the cart slot and it was fine. Then when I turned off my SN30 before turning off the system the screen turned purple and beige and became super blocky, the game crashed, and I lost my save file on Shin Megami Tensei. Except it seems the file is still intact in the SD card. Yay, weird stuff! I probably should have done this with my actual Shin Megami Tensei cart and not the SD2SNES Pro, but too late now. Time to power on again and see what happens!

 

Yep, SMT save is dead. Oh well, who cares. Super Metroid is still fine and that's all I care about. Except if the Super Metroid saves were not intact then I'd have a great reason to play the best game ever made again.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[Kismet]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:05 PM, Kismet said:

Not to start complaining but I have two issues come up with the SuperNT

 

1. Firmware 4.9, 1080p (50 and 60) no longer works through the Micomsoft SC-512N1 (FPGA HDMI PCIe 2.0 capture card), it used to. And the strange thing is, the capture card is showing a sync lock at 1080p.

2. Mechanically the cartridge slot is allowing the SD2SNES and Super Gameboy to wobble and it's making it fail.

 

My guess the problem with 1 is that something has changed. Capturing from the card just shows "no signal", meanwhile the monitor attached still works. Unless this is a driver issue with the card, I'm not sure why 720p would work and not 1080p. The current driver is 1.1.0.188.5, 2020.02.03.

 

The problem with 2, is something I mentioned way back at the beginning when I got a defective Super Gameboy, it doesn't fit in the cartridge slot quite right, allowing the edge connector to wobble, easily. This also happens with the SD2SNES, so even moving the SuperNT causes it to lockup.

 

So after some fiddling around, I found that if I stuck a piece of cardboard (eg cereal box cardboard) down the back of the cartridge slot, with the SD2SNES cart in it makes the sd2snes just snug enough to not wobble. This is a US model SD2SNES. The same issue was had with the Japanese Super Gameboy 2.

 

However, I also found that there is a strange "alarm" sound from Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon Another Story ( 5F776488E366B6D6B44F6E8A01D9953D ) that happens on the real cart, and the SD2SNES, during both "press start" screens while it plays Moonlight Densetsu. It should sound like below.

 

But sounds like this:

https://filebin.net/xssoeh4zoxegxnzr

 

I'm playing through the rest of the game listening for anything else that sounds bad, but haven't encountered anything else yet.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Kismet

[Steven Pendleton]

8 hours ago, Kismet said:

So after some fiddling around, I found that if I stuck a piece of cardboard (eg cereal box cardboard) down the back of the cartridge slot, with the SD2SNES cart in it makes the sd2snes just snug enough to not wobble. This is a US model SD2SNES. The same issue was had with the Japanese Super Gameboy 2.

 

However, I also found that there is a strange "alarm" sound from Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon Another Story ( 5F776488E366B6D6B44F6E8A01D9953D ) that happens on the real cart, and the SD2SNES, during both "press start" screens while it plays Moonlight Densetsu. It should sound like below.

 

But sounds like this:

https://filebin.net/xssoeh4zoxegxnzr

 

I'm playing through the rest of the game listening for anything else that sounds bad, but haven't encountered anything else yet.

Funny that you should find a problem with a Japan-only Sailor Moon game on an Analogue console. Look what I just reported the other day.

 

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Mega-Sg-Jailbreak/issues/75

 

After some testing just now with my Super Famicom and Super Nt, this problem you have found happens to me as well on the Super Nt but not the SFC. I am using the SD2SNES Pro, though, since I don't have the real cart for this one. It's on the list of carts to get, but extremely low priority right now.

 

By the way, I laugh at the fan translation's romanization of Kodansha as Kodansya in your example. It's technically correct, but only Japanese people use Nihon-shiki, so it's going to look weird to not-Japanese people who don't know otherwise. The new translation has Kodansha, though.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[RetrogamerX]

Anyone see this on reddit.  Good to see the pocket is real.  I also heard the dock has a controller, as well but can't find pic of it.

 

I think it looks cool.  Very much looking forward to it.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by RetrogamerX

[Steven Pendleton]

15 minutes ago, RetrogamerX said:

Anyone see this on reddit.  Good to see the pocket is real.  I also heard the dock has a controller, as well but can't find pic of it.

 

I think it looks cool.  Very much looking forward to it.

 

 

There was an interview with Chris Taber last year with a photo of him holding the Pocket.

 

and here it is

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[RetrogamerX]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

There was an interview with Chris Taber last year with a photo of him holding the Pocket.

 

and here it is

 

That was last year.  This was now

[Slipard]

So much joy on his face. I now have a better understanding of the poor customer support from Analogue.

[cacophony]

8 hours ago, RetrogamerX said:

That was last year.  This was now

Old shell prototype ... new shell prototype!

[Jagasian]

PVMs and BVMs should not be used as the standard for what old 8-bit and 16-bit games looked like on a typical CRT TV back in the 1980s and 1990s.  99% of gamers played on consumer grade CRTs, which have very different looking scanlines than PVMs and emulated scanlines.  The thickness of the illuminated lines on a consumer CRT dramatically varies in thickness from left to right on each line because in regions of brighter pixels, the illuminated scanline gets thicker causing the non-illuminated scanlines above and below that region to be thinner.

 

This expanding and contracting of the thickness of the scanlines smooths out jaggies of 240p and gives 8-bit and 16-bit games a very distinctive look that is not the same as blacking out every other row.

[NE146]

I always say this but despite playing video games on CRT's for what..3 decades..  I had no idea wtf scanlines were, and why they were desired. I had simply never noticed them on any of my tvs, ever. But hey

[atmn]

Quick question.

Are intv ntm core a 2020 release...

 

[Jagasian]

On 4/7/2020 at 8:35 PM, NE146 said:

I always say this but despite playing video games on CRT's for what..3 decades..  I had no idea wtf scanlines were, and why they were desired. I had simply never noticed them on any of my tvs, ever. But hey

Larger consumer CRTs had very subtle scanlines and smaller consumer CRTs had no visible scanlines.  I like the subtle scanline look of a 32-inch JVC D-Series.

[Steven Pendleton]

My Sony Trinitron KV-29DR1's scanlines at point-blank. Stock VA4 Japanese Mega Drive with HD Retrovision cables plugged in directly. Forgot if I had the Super 32X plugged in when I did this, though. Like I said earlier, you can only really see the vertical ones except in really dark areas.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[Steven Pendleton]

Here are some more because why not. All done on same TV, Mega Drive, and cable.

 

 

 

 

 

And a bonus composite Richter on my stock PC Engine + CD-ROM2 + stock IFU.