FPGA Based Videogame System

[Sneakyturtleegg]

3 hours ago, blzmarcel said:

 

I understand what you guys are saying, and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

What it looks like is Analogue wants to be like Apple, making their own hardware and software for it, which is fine and great. But they have nowhere near the kind of resources and man power that a company like Apple has. They have one real engineer afaik, Kevtris, who seems to be the sole person handling new product design, repairs, and updates. That really doesn't seem to be very sustainable unless more help is bought in. I'm only going off of all the reports in this thread and elsewhere on the web about how slow support responses are, how high shipping costs are, and fairly low product runs. If I'm missing something please correct me, by all means.

Unfortunately part of your conclusion is based on stale information. Kevtris posts regularly on Discord and has not in this thread for some time. He has advised that he has help on his end. He is not the only one. Regardless if Kevtris was the only engineer, I don't know how it would relate to sustainability. Internally, Kevtris and Analogue may have an idea but the general public does not. Analogue has a great track record and has delivered on every system they have announced. I don't see anything Analogue is doing to indicate otherwise. Not sure what your point is other than to regurgitate complaints and negatively speculate. And that is exactly why he doesn't post in here anymore.

[mario64]

6 hours ago, XtraSmiley said:

I'm just saddened that Kevtris is lumping everything in the ignore category, as I'm sure there is still legitimate in there as well.

This exactly. He laughed about ignoring this thread and yet there are some legitimate bug reports and issues raised which are being totally ignored. If Analogue was providing regular firmware updates for their products there wouldn’t be so much complaining. Instead what we see is maybe a year or so of support then they move on the next product and act like their previous products don’t even exist. This creates frustration for those of us who paid good money for them.

[Atariboy]

I've mostly been using the jailbreak feature of my Mega Sg. Two games though have never worked for me, which are Blue Sphere (Sonic 1 paired with Sonic & Knuckles) and Sonic 2 paired with Sonic & Knuckles.

 

There's a fair bit of information out there about these two rom dumps posing an issue for Everdrives (And the Mega Sg), but patched roms have proven elusive the three or four times I've searched over the past year or so. Can anyone tell me what needs to be edited to get the normal rom dumps of these to function via the jailbreak, or perhaps link me to something like an IPS patch that I can apply?

 

I own the original cartridges so it has never been a priority (Not to mention I can officially play the lock-on roms in Sonic Mega Collection and on Xbox Live Arcade), but I'm about about to apply a lot of patches to various games (Such as controller hacks for the paddle games on the Master System), so I'd like to finally get working roms for these two to make things complete on my SD card until something new pops up down the road like a newly translated game or prototype discovery.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Atariboy

[Great Hierophant]

1 hour ago, Atariboy said:

I've mostly been using the jailbreak feature of my Mega Sg. Two games though have never worked for me, which are Blue Sphere (Sonic 1 paired with Sonic & Knuckles) and Sonic 2 paired with Sonic & Knuckles.

 

There's a fair bit of information out there about these two rom dumps posing an issue for Everdrives (And the Mega Sg), but patched roms have proven elusive the three or four times I've searched over the past year or so. Can anyone tell me what needs to be edited to get the normal rom dumps of these to function via the jailbreak, or perhaps link me to something like an IPS patch that I can apply?

 

I own the original cartridges so it has never been a priority (Not to mention I can officially play the lock-on roms in Sonic Mega Collection and on Xbox Live Arcade), but I'm about about to apply a lot of patches to various games (Such as controller hacks for the paddle games on the Master System), so I'd like to finally get working roms for these two to make things complete on my SD card until something new pops up down the road like a newly translated game or prototype discovery.

Did you try any if the [f1] or [f2] ROMs from Goodgen v3.21?  I think they may work.

[Atariboy]

My personal set is a No Intro set from I think 2018, but thanks for the lead. It's downloading now.

 

I believe the F2 versions are what I need judging by old forum posts.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Atariboy

[Sneakyturtleegg]

15 hours ago, mario64 said:

If Analogue was providing regular firmware updates for their products there wouldn’t be so much complaining. Instead what we see is maybe a year or so of support then they move on the next product and act like their previous products don’t even exist. This creates frustration for those of us who paid good money for them.

This can be said for every single television or electronic device ever made. A year's support seems normal. Are you holding Analogue to a higher standard? If so, why? The bugs and issues that people are now complaining about with Analogue's systems are mostly minor glitches and edge cases that 99.9 percent of people will never notice. Nothing major or game breaking. Always going to have that, no matter the device. The major stuff has been fixed. People are acting like Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Castlevainia, Sonic, Gunstar Heroes, etc don't work. Also, a surprising number of bugs/glitches are native to the original games/consoles and are now just being discovered due to high scrutiny and Kevtris' accurate FPGA coding. The good far outweighs the bad. At some point, a business needs to draw a reasonable line and move on from support/updates for mature products. What bugs/glitches affect the games you want to play? Analogue's consoles are the best clones on the market. They offer a high quality solution to play retro games on modern televisions or CRTs. I haven't come across any bugs/glitches playing games on Analogue consoles, yet alone anything that breaks a game. And I own the NT Mini, SNT and Mega SG. If their are superior products on the market, I'd like to know. Right now, Analogue is the gold standard. Constructive criticism is good and major bugs should be fixed, but I think a lot of people are far down in the weeds with unrealistic expectations regarding firmware updates.

[kevtris]

17 hours ago, mario64 said:

This exactly. He laughed about ignoring this thread and yet there are some legitimate bug reports and issues raised which are being totally ignored. If Analogue was providing regular firmware updates for their products there wouldn’t be so much complaining. Instead what we see is maybe a year or so of support then they move on the next product and act like their previous products don’t even exist. This creates frustration for those of us who paid good money for them.

it's not that I am "laughing at ignoring the thread lol" but I work many hours every single day on this stuff.  I don't ignore complaints, but there's not a lot I can say about internal operations so I don't say anything. 

[CZroe]

it's not that I am "laughing at ignoring the thread lol" but I work many hours every single day on this stuff.  I don't ignore complaints, but there's not a lot I can say about internal operations so I don't say anything. 

He's literally reading too much into your "LOL" from the Discord quote...

From the man himself on Discord Today:
 
kevtris  Today at 6:31 PM
I don't even look at my thread on atariage any more. lol
it's just complaining
 
He's not wrong.

He's taking it a bit too literally. Obviously you do follow it somewhat. Thanks for checking in.

[Intense.Mark]

@kevtris I hope Analogue gives all the help you need on the technical side. We are also hope there's new products down the pipeline as I'm one of those who is hoping to get an FPGA Neo Geo. I know there's a MISTER but I want a Neo Geo FPGA with cartridge slot, DB15 controller port, HDMI out and zero lag.

 

BTW, Thanks again kevtris for these wonderful FPGA products. I technically have every FPGA system you've created at this point. I'm just waiting for my NT mini Noir to arrive at my doorstep

Edited June 28, 2020 by Intense.Mark

[Intense.Mark]

On 6/27/2020 at 8:42 PM, Sneakyturtleegg said:

I have no idea if game-tech will continue to sell the hidefnes. It is not listed in his shop at the moment. If you are interested, I suppose that you could contact Jason

If the Nt Mini Noir didn't came out I'll probably be interested. Not at this point.

[blzmarcel]

23 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

Unfortunately part of your conclusion is based on stale information.

Thanks for your reply. I mainly went by this thread, so I fully accept that my I may be wrong

 

23 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

Kevtris posts regularly on Discord and has not in this thread for some time. He has advised that he has help on his end.

I'm glad he has some help. It's easy from following this thread to get the impression that it has been all him. What discord server and room is this? It might be nice to start hanging around there and and getting fresher information. That said, not everyone sees discord as a viable replacement for a message board or mailing list and I think it's fair to say that over the past couple years since this thread began, people had become accustomed to seeing info here.

 

23 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

Analogue has a great track record and has delivered on every system they have announced.

I 100% agree. They have made some fantastic products thus far and look to be continuing that with the up coming Pocket, and I too hope to be able to get one. I just hope availability will be better, as that's what I've seen mentioned the most here. It would be nice to see them sold through the more well known retro sites, like stoneagegamer and others.

 

23 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

Not sure what your point is other than to regurgitate complaints and negatively speculate. And that is exactly why he doesn't post in here anymore.

It was never my intention to be negative, as I harbor absolutely no ill will towards Analogue or Ketris. I was just trying to give an objective look based on what I've seen people talk about here. If I'm wrong about something, I want it to be pointed out, much like you did. Thanks.

 

 

8 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

This can be said for every single television or electronic device ever made. A year's support seems normal.

Maybe this is true for basic televisions, but smart TVs tend to get much longer support. My friend's Samsung 6 series from mid-late 2016 is still getting updates every now and again (saw it pop up during a recent visit.) Game consoles also typically get much more than just a year of support.

[atmn]

18 hours ago, Intense.Mark said:

If the Nt Mini Noir didn't came out I'll probably be interested. Not at this point.

I still have my hidef top loader, just because its cool.

[Newsdee]

On 6/29/2020 at 10:42 AM, blzmarcel said:

What discord server and room is this? It might be nice to start hanging around there and and getting fresher information. 

It's the Classic Gaming Discord server, check the Analogue channels from here:

https://discord.gg/KfXx2vY

 

Read the welcome text and choose server roles to gain access to the areas you are interested in.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Newsdee

[Sneakyturtleegg]

On 6/28/2020 at 3:55 PM, CZroe said:

He's taking it a bit too literally. Obviously you do follow it somewhat. Thanks for checking in.

Too literally? Maybe you aren't taking it seriously enough? I highly advise joining the Classic Gaming Discord and checking out the Analogue channels. That is where you will gain perspective for comparison and understand. That is where the informative nuggets are by Kevtris and many other major announcements in the hobby. Plus all of the other channels have many relevant retro gaming developers contributing. Check out the pinned messages too. Full of great information and FAQs. I'm not a Twitter user, but there is a lot of information there too. This thread is full of tumble weeds and has significantly degenerated over the last few years. Its nothing like it was in its prime. Like Kevtris said, its full of complaining. That is hard to disagree with.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sneakyturtleegg
See Newsdee's post above. Contains a link to the referenced Discord Server.

[CZroe]

Too literally? Maybe you aren't taking it seriously enough? I highly advise joining the Classic Gaming Discord and checking out the Analogue channels. That is where you will gain perspective for comparison and understand. That is where the informative nuggets are by Kevtris and many other major announcements in the hobby. Plus all of the other channels have many relevant retro gaming developers contributing. Check out the pinned messages too. Full of great information and FAQs. I'm not a Twitter user, but there is a lot of information there too. This thread is full of tumble weeds and has significantly degenerated over the last few years. Its nothing like it was in its prime. Like Kevtris said, its full of complaining. That is hard to disagree with.

Yes, "too literally." Typing "lol" doesn't literally mean he's laughing about it which was a cornerstone of the offense mario64 expressed here. 

...and that's just one example.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

1 minute ago, CZroe said:

Yes, "too literally." Typing "lol" doesn't literally mean he's laughing about it which was a cornerstone of the offense expressed here.

 

...and that's just one example.

Split the hair if you want. Just because he put "lol" doesn't mean it isn't true. I already provided information as to why it is. Care to make a case that this thread isn't a shell of it's former self full of complaining? I'd like to hear it.

[CZroe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Split the hair if you want. Just because he put "lol" doesn't mean it isn't true. I already provided information as to why it is. Care to make a case that this thread isn't a shell of it's former self full of complaining? I'd like to hear it.

 

You seem to be confused about who I was responding to when I quoted you up there. I was quoting your post in response to Kevin to show exactly what mario64 was taking too literally when he provoked Kevin's response. Kevin said he wasn't laughing and your post had a quote of him saying "lol" in it. I was trying to get ahead of mario64 by pointing out that it's only contradictory if he continues to take what Kevin said there way too literally.

 

 

mario64 is the one who took "lol" too literally and expressed offense as if Kevin was literally laughing at us. What you are saying about this thread is exactly what I was saying all along. We don't disagree. I was specifically calling that out myself. Remember my exchange with Slipard a few days ago? I also agree with him about Kevin's reasons for avoiding the thread... only I used his own words against him to call out hypocrisy since he was recently behaving as one of the complainers we all blame. It definitely rustled his jimmies.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

1 minute ago, CZroe said:

You seemed to be confused about who I was responding to when I quoted you up there. I was quoting your post in response to Kevin to show exactly what mario64 was taking too literally when he provoked Kevin's response. Kevin said he wasn't laughing and your post had a quote of him saying "lol" in it. I was trying to get ahead of mario64 by pointing out that it's only contradictory if he continues to take it way too literally.

mario64 is the one who took "lol" too literally and got further offended as if Kevin was literally laughing at us. What you are saying about this thread is exactly what I was saying all along. We don't disagree. I was specifically calling that out myself. Remember my exchange with Slipard a few days ago?

Fair enough. Guess I misinterpreted.

[Steven Pendleton]

So I'm guessing Super Nt + Super Game Boy 2 = use fully buffered, right?

[vanfanel]

On 6/28/2020 at 7:55 PM, Sneakyturtleegg said:

The bugs and issues that people are now complaining about with Analogue's systems are mostly minor glitches and edge cases that 99.9 percent of people will never notice. Nothing major or game breaking.

Minor???? Like ALL scrolling Master System games showing tearing?

Like OPL music on Master System being broken in Rastan?

Like EVERY MegaDrive game using pixel blending (which is most of the console's library) looking bad because of the "selective" blending that creates ugly-looking frames with destroyed fonts and missing blending areas?

No, we are not talking about minor here: and this is also far from the gold standard you mention.

 

Also, we are not asking for unrealistic features like MegaCD support on the small FPGA of the MegaSG, NO. We are talking about reasonable fixes that would improve things A LOT, because believing that the MegaSG is a perfect way to play MegaDrive and Master System games and finding out those bugs I mentioned really screams for fixes.

 

I *want to love* these machines. I have the SuperNT and MegaSG from day 1. I imported them to europe, which was EXPENSIVE as hell. And all I am asking is BASIC fixes for some big problems that they have. It's legit, not some laughable rant asking for the impossible.

In fact, I could fix some of these things myself if these products were open, but they are not, which frustrates me even more.

 

Asking these fixes, just in case, doesn't make me an adult living in my parent's house, like some insinuated to other use some pages ago. Not AT ALL. Grown, economically independent adults also want their computers and consoles to work as expected, not worse, and fix them (if they are open) or ask for fixes to major issues (if they are closed). That's perfectly sane.

What's childish is being left with bugs and not saying anything because "it's normal that business moves on".

 

Oh, and the comparision with TV sets is just plain stupid. It looks to me that some people in certain parts of the world have the corporate mentality so deeply installed in their minds that they have some strange "Stockholm syndrome", protecting inteterests that are against themselves. Good I don't get to live there, that mentality makes me want to puke. Really awful way of thinking that I hope NEVER gets here (to be honest, seeing how things are going in these parts, I am almost sure it will never get here).

[RobDangerous]

Master System tearing - I'm not sure about that, so far only two people talked about it (one of them being you), haven't noticed it myself. Would be interested in knowing more, maybe related to scaling settings or whatever.

OPL music broken in one game - yes, that's minor.

Pixel blending - definitely minor, from what I can see it's literally only one person who cares about it.

 

So, yes, you made a strong point that we're only talking about minor issues here. Thanks for making that clear.

[SegaSnatcher]

19 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

So I'm guessing Super Nt + Super Game Boy 2 = use fully buffered, right?

Why would you need to use fully buffered?  I never had issues using low latency mode.

[Steven Pendleton]

6 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Why would you need to use fully buffered?  I never had issues using low latency mode.

To get proper Game Boy timings. Using the Super Game Boy 2 with zero delay kind of defeats the purpose of using the Super Game Boy 2 instead of the Super Game Boy.

[SegaSnatcher]

29 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

To get proper Game Boy timings. Using the Super Game Boy 2 with zero delay kind of defeats the purpose of using the Super Game Boy 2 instead of the Super Game Boy.

  Regardless of what buffering method used Super Game Boy 1 will always run games at incorrect speeds with tons of stutter, this was fixed with Super Game Boy 2.  The Super Game Boy 2's hardware is not effected by SNT's output since the Super GameBoy 2 has its own crystal which generates its own clock where as SGB1 had to rely on the Super Nintendo's internal clock for timings.  All you would really be doing is adding unnecessary latency when using a buffered mode with the SGB2. 

Are you a speedrunner?  

Edited July 2, 2020 by SegaSnatcher

[vanfanel]

46 minutes ago, RobDangerous said:

Master System tearing - I'm not sure about that, so far only two people talked about it (one of them being you), haven't noticed it myself. Would be interested in knowing more, maybe related to scaling settings or whatever.

OPL music broken in one game - yes, that's minor.

Pixel blending - definitely minor, from what I can see it's literally only one person who cares about it.

 

So, yes, you made a strong point that we're only talking about minor issues here. Thanks for making that clear.

You can be sure about Master System tearing. It happens here in two different monitors with two different HDMI cables. People seeing this could be read here time ago, and on the github issue tracker. But most people forget about those problems and move on to another solutions to play better, as I did by moving to the MiSTer (I have native db9 ports there, too).

I also tried all kind of settings, like different integer scale sizes. Of course I use zero-lag mode: that's why I use FPGAs to start with. But tearing also happens in buffered modes. Only in Master System games, NOT in Megadrive ones.

 

Music broken in Rastan: you don't know the Master System. I bet you are in USA, where the Master System catalog and importance is almost unknown. Here in Europe, the Master System version of Rastan is a classic of it's catalog: saying that Rastan is a minor game is like saying Wonderboy in Monster Land is a minor game.

 

Pixel blending: I am not the only person that has noticed how broken the selective pixel blending is, and how perfect (yes, PERFECT) the MiSTer core looks with unselective, full-screen pixel blending. Chances are that you never got to know the MegaDrive back in the day: you know it by emulation and now FPGAs, but you did not play the hardware via RF or RCA, like it was played back in the 90s. These methods caused unselective, fullscreen pixel blending that made the games look blurry but very characteristic of the home machine. The MegaDrive games did NOT look sharp like RGB does. Not at all. Game designers took this into account and most games need fullscreen pixel blending to look as intended, blurry and all: basic games like Chakan, Aladdin, Earthworm Jim and Ristar just look bad on the MegaSG, and look perfect on the MiSTer. Again, calling it minor is a demonstration of a huge ignorance about the real system. Worst thing is, it's very easy to implement, because the solution is a simplification of the currently available and broken solution.

 

So, yeah, you made a strong point that you don't really know the machines implemented in the MegaSG.

Emulation was great, but created a generation of players that have a distorted vision of the past, with horribly-looking pixel-perfect gaming in mind as a reference, when games were not supposed nor designed to look like that in the first place.