FPGA Based Videogame System

[Shin_K]

well, Kevtris just said " It does not have it built in.", are you hoping a jb fw would ?
(I mean, it might, I don't know, I sure would love that ^^)

I for one really wish at least SPC7110 was simulated in a jb fw, since there's no way to play that new tengai makyo english translation on anything but an emulator right now.

@Kevtris> a while back, Analogue asked on twitter about most wanted features https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/920703269084598272
...are any of what was posted considered ? (I guess you can't be specific, but a yes or no if you can't say more would do^^)

 

@cfillak> noticed the same thing about SA-1 and posted about it on nov 21st http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/?view=findpost&p=3895041

Edited January 24, 2018 by Shin_K

[cfillak]

well, Kevtris just said " It does not have it built in.", are you hoping a jb fw would ?

(I mean, it might, I don't know, I sure would love that ^^)

 

I for one really wish at least SPC7110 was simulated in a jb fw, since there's no way to play that new tengai makyo english translation on anything but an emulator right now.

 

@cfillak> noticed the same thing about SA-1 and posted about it on nov 21st http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/?view=findpost&p=3895041

lol I totally forgot. I even replied to it. Here's to hoping for SA-1 support. That'd be quite an amazing feat to pull off!

Edited January 24, 2018 by cfillak

[Shin_K]

haha, I forgot too^^
that would be great, especially for retranslations or hacks.
that being said I already own pretty much every special chip game I would want to really play so I'm good on that from. (did get jp kirbies, parodius and megaman carts couple of month back, were pretty cheap), not sure I'm shell out 200$ for MSU-1 (you get other cool features than that, but not worth it for me as of now)

[RabidWookie]

For some reason japanese copies of expensive SNES games are dirt cheap. A few weeks ago I snagged Mega Man 7, X2, and X3 on Super Famicom for $30 total. Those 3 for SNES would go for over $300 total!

[Flojomojo]

Can we make a FAQ about the Super NT? This thread is getting unwieldy and "jailbreak" stuff is unlikely to be on Analogue's support page.

 

I'm super excited about its impending arrival. This is my favorite kind of hype -- preorder something, then forget about it for a while, only to have it finished up and ship without delays or excuses. Well done!

[Andromeda Stardust]

For some reason japanese copies of expensive SNES games are dirt cheap. A few weeks ago I snagged Mega Man 7, X2, and X3 on Super Famicom for $30 total. Those 3 for SNES would go for over $300 total!

Yes, I bought Kirby's Dreamland 3 last year for $17 shipped. Most of the platformers, space shooters, puzzlers, etc are playable without reading Japanese, and some even have English menus. I have that zany Parodius III one that uses the SA-1 chip as a glorified speech synthesizer and talks the entire time while you play. It's still fun to pick up and play even if I can't understand any of the speech as the whole game couldn't possibly get any wackier.

 

That basically only leaves the RPG stuff like Earthbound (Mother 2) and Super Mario RPG which are useless as imports, and currently the only way to play Super Mario RPG on real hardware is to learn Japanese on a budget or fork over some dough for an original North American cart. Also a number of obscure never released in the US strategy games with expansion chips that that may or may not have ROM translations which don't even work on SD2SNES, and there's still no good way to play them on native hardware unless one commissions a donor cart from a cheap Super Famicom donor.

 

Some method of utilizing SA-1 and FX to play ROMs on real hardware (or quality FPGA clone) needs to be created. And I'd almost say Kevtris has done the impossible by releasing the Super NT, but it would blow me away if it contains enough logic elements to run one of these two expansion chips in addition to the SNES core. I also hope beyond hope, that if a Jailbreak firmware is released for the Super NT, it does not remove direct access to the director's cut of Super Turrican.

[killersquirel]

what "homebrews" use the msu-1? Please tell me? Where can I buy these carts? I'm sure they'd have no trouble running on the Super NT, if they existed...

 

Further reading...

https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10929

 

There is that version of Road Blaster that uses the MSU-1. That's a legit home-brew game.

[Great Hierophant]

 

There is that version of Road Blaster that uses the MSU-1. That's a legit home-brew game.

 

Super Road Blaster is an unauthorized port of the Laserdisc arcade game Road Blaster, originally released by Data East. There has been, thus far, no legitimate use for the MSU-1 of which I am aware. Whether it is to add "high quality" audio or FMVs to existing SNES cartridge games or to port games originally released for other systems or to add English-language voice acting to Japanese BS-X games, its all infringing on a company's copyright in some way, shape or form. Given the great expense of implementing the MSU-1 in a physical cartridge format and the primordial status of SNES homebrew, I expect the MSU-1's current usage as only a existing game enhancement technology is unlikely to change any time soon. That being said, my latest blog entry talks about some of the more interesting, in my opinion, uses that the MSU-1 has been put to thus far : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2018/01/sd2snes-and-msu-1.html

 

Kevtris said the MSU-1's functionality is not contained within the Super Nt but should be fully compatible with its implementation in the sd2snes. Let's not get off-track with irrelevant debates about what is legitimate and what is not when it comes to the enhancement.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Great Hierophant

[cacophony]

Is there an explanation for the flickering in the upper region of the beam meter in this tweeted Analogue video?

https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/956276517121679364

 

It doesn't seem to be present on real hardware (starting at 6 minutes 7 seconds): https://youtu.be/uh73ngqxttE?t=6m7s

 

edit: Analogue provided an explanation: "these are heavily processed gifs for fun and should not be taken whatsoever as Super Nt’s output quality/accuracy."

Edited January 25, 2018 by cacophony

[Kismet]

Ha! So it's not even a real enhancement chip, just something byuu made up. I checked the wikipedia "list of snes enhancement chips" page only to find it isn't mentioned. I suppose there are reasonably affordable repro pbcs (besides sd2snes) utilizing this chip? After all, homebrew flash mappers for nes are a thing. If mot, one could argue it's not a real chip, exists only in emulation, and therefore doesn't exist.

 

Amazing how many people decided this comment was worth jumping down your throat for.

 

The MSU-1 is basically something that started out as an emulation-only thing, that was later made a standard feature of the SD2SNES, which is what enables all the MSU-1 romhacks to work on a real SNES. If gives a capability that would have been equal to having the BS-X/SuperDisc, and is primarily used to re-implement BS-X features. So yes it's a FPGA-only chip. That said, until the SuperDisc was discovered, it was basically a way to go "look what the SNES could have been capable with a CD-ROM", and then of course it turns out the MSU-1 exceeds what the SuperDisc was capable of. So making the suggestion of it's value is useless is missing the point, as the SuperDisc only has one known working unit out there, and it is impossible for anyone to own a legit SuperDisc either. For all intents kevtris could put the SuperDisc features into Super NT for a proof-of-concept, but anyone working on romhacks would rather target the more capable MSU-1.

 

From a proof-of-concept point of view, the audio part is essentially unlimited because the cartridge expansion directly connects to the analog audio in the SNES, so games that utilize the MSU-1 typically have to hack the game to trigger the MSU-1 audio playback and mute the music that would normally play. This allows some games to actually have their CD OST's be utilized, or other fan-produced cover music to replace the original. That is an interesting use of the MSU-1.

 

But, I digress, yes all the existing MSU-1 stuff is copyright infringement, and the amount of effort required to do the patching yourself is borderline impossible as there is no legal way to obtain all the prerequisite ROM's or audio data. So playing with the MSU-1 is basically going "Yeah this pressing so hard on the fair use and DMCA exception ( http://www.wired.co.uk/article/dmca-game-preservation-exemptions-abandoned-games) but let's not get too pissed off about it."

 

I generally frown on blatent copyright infringement, but this probably one exception where I'm more interested in what people do with the MSU-1 more than I care about the developer's unwillingness to repackage/re-released games. There are games that I'd like to actually re-released with cd-audio, not because I think the original audio was poor, but because it had interesting soundtracks, and it's rather interesting to see how the OST audio fits.

[Newsdee]

As far as I'm concerned the MSU-1 hardware implementation is the FPGA on SD2SNES. Doing it independently is probably going to be as expensive so might as well pack the extra features.

[Wolf_]

 

But, I digress, yes all the existing MSU-1 stuff is copyright infringement, and the amount of effort required to do the patching yourself is borderline impossible as there is no legal way to obtain all the prerequisite ROM's or audio data. So playing with the MSU-1 is basically going "Yeah this pressing so hard on the fair use and DMCA exception ( http://www.wired.co.uk/article/dmca-game-preservation-exemptions-abandoned-games) but let's not get too pissed off about it."

The msu1 is not copyright infringement. You still need a copy of the original rom to use the patches and the music is all fanmade. Because you still need the the original rom to patch it with the msu files it can not play copyrighted material without first obtaining that copyrighted material and as a result is not a derivative work. This is a supreme court ruling that holds true over the entirety of the U.S.

 

The same applies to any modification that requires the original copy to be patched like translation patches, hacks, and hd graphics improvements.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Wolf_

[scott64]

If Kevtris adds support for roms, and some enhancement chips I wouldn't expect to see the MSU-1 implemented. He's already stated that it will work on the Super NT using the SD2SNES. It's possible he doesn't wish to impede on SD2SNES sales.

[Wolf_]

If Kevtris adds support for roms, and some enhancement chips I wouldn't expect to see the MSU-1 implemented. He's already stated that it will work on the Super NT using the SD2SNES. It's possible he doesn't wish to impede on SD2SNES sales.

I don't think that's realistic. He has no reason afaik to care how well the sd2snes sells so I can't see him being motivated to leave out one specific feature which might not even amount to many sales of the sd2snes. I mean sure msu1 is amazing and I want it, but how many people would buy a sd2snes just for that? Probably not a significant amount.

 

My best guess is that if a jailbreak happens and it is possible to support the chip then it will get supported eventually.

[RabidWookie]

If Kevtris adds support for roms, and some enhancement chips I wouldn't expect to see the MSU-1 implemented. He's already stated that it will work on the Super NT using the SD2SNES. It's possible he doesn't wish to impede on SD2SNES sales.

Why would/should he nerf features from his own product to boost someone else's product? He didn't withold mapper support from the NT Mini to boost everdrive sales.

[Kismet]

The msu1 is not copyright infringement. You still need a copy of the original rom to use the patches and the music is all fanmade. Because you still need the the original rom to patch it with the msu files it can not play copyrighted material without first obtaining that copyrighted material and as a result is not a derivative work. This is a supreme court ruling that holds true over the entirety of the U.S.

 

The same applies to any modification that requires the original copy to be patched like translation patches, hacks, and hd graphics improvements.

 

-EVERYTHING- produced for MSU-1 thus far has been copyright infringement, you're missing the point as always. People are not going to patch things themselves, they just go to the first guy on the internet who pre-patches everything and dumps it in a rompack. Then whatever broken state that patch is in, becomes the one people use and whine about. That is what idiot pirates do, they don't care if a patch was a work in progress or full of bugs. That's why so many broken dumps for all consoles exist in the first place. If you're not willing to dump the games yourself, then anything you acquire off the internet is at your own risk.

 

Streaming/lp'ing from a SNES with the MSU-1 is also probably a reasonable, albeit unweildy way to work around Nintendo flagging videos if you don't use any music from the games. Given, Nintedo just hands out copyright strikes people who play Nintendo-owned games on emulators.

[Wolf_]

 

-EVERYTHING- produced for MSU-1 thus far has been copyright infringement, you're missing the point as always. People are not going to patch things themselves, they just go to the first guy on the internet who pre-patches everything and dumps it in a rompack. Then whatever broken state that patch is in, becomes the one people use and whine about. That is what idiot pirates do, they don't care if a patch was a work in progress or full of bugs. That's why so many broken dumps for all consoles exist in the first place. If you're not willing to dump the games yourself, then anything you acquire off the internet is at your own risk.

 

Streaming/lp'ing from a SNES with the MSU-1 is also probably a reasonable, albeit unweildy way to work around Nintendo flagging videos if you don't use any music from the games. Given, Nintedo just hands out copyright strikes people who play Nintendo-owned games on emulators.

You've missed the point as always. -NOTHING- that requires the original works to operate is copyright infringement because you need to have a copy of the original works to use it. IF someone chooses to steal those original works by downloading them when they do not have a copy of them then they, THAT INDIVIDUAL PERSON, have broken the law. Everything about the msu1 chip is completely legal, they are not responsible for how people use it anymore than a store that sells kitchen knives is responsible for a poorly made horror movie.

[Newsdee]

Why would/should he nerf features from his own product to boost someone else's product? He didn't withold mapper support from the NT Mini to boost everdrive sales.

That's a bit different because the NES relies on mappers much more than then SNES, and also the mappers are much less complex than what was released for SNES games.

Something like MSU-1 is really specialized hardware which is not used by any official game.

 

The SD2SNES code is open source; but Kevtris might not want to use it if it would force him to publish the rest of his code.

https://sd2snes.de/blog/downloads

[keepdreamin]

 

-EVERYTHING- produced for MSU-1 thus far has been copyright infringement, you're missing the point as always. People are not going to patch things themselves, they just go to the first guy on the internet who pre-patches everything and dumps it in a rompack. Then whatever broken state that patch is in, becomes the one people use and whine about. That is what idiot pirates do, they don't care if a patch was a work in progress or full of bugs. That's why so many broken dumps for all consoles exist in the first place. If you're not willing to dump the games yourself, then anything you acquire off the internet is at your own risk.

 

Streaming/lp'ing from a SNES with the MSU-1 is also probably a reasonable, albeit unweildy way to work around Nintendo flagging videos if you don't use any music from the games. Given, Nintedo just hands out copyright strikes people who play Nintendo-owned games on emulators.

 

good grief, aren't you just the party pooper. Some ancient SNES games can now have arranged soundtracks with CD quality audio. Cry me a river.

[elevengames]

Looks like reviewers are starting to get their Super Nts

 

https://twitter.com/gamesack/status/956691316661866496

Edited January 26, 2018 by elevengames

[Andromeda Stardust]

Looks like reviewers are starting to get their Super Nts

 

https://twitter.com/gamesack/status/956691316661866496

And the first thing they do is attempt to insert Genesis games. Some guys crack me up...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUbZraQUQAA3yE-?format=jpg

 

Image won't embed invalid extension.

[Beer Monkey]

And the first thing they do is attempt to insert Genesis games. Some guys crack me up...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUbZraQUQAA3yE-?format=jpg

 

Image won't embed invalid extension.

 

It's a joke. Like, a literal joke.

[Atariboy]

It's obviously just a cute way for him to announce that he has one of these on hand now.

 

I can't imagine anyone that has or will touch an Analogue Super NT will actually try to insert a Genesis cartridge.

[RabidWookie]

Greendog is a running joke in their videos, as is trying to insert the wrong games into systems. They tried to put a CD into the NT Mini if I remember correctly (while saying "asssssssss" like the Angry Video Game Nerd).

[Kismet]

 

good grief, aren't you just the party pooper. Some ancient SNES games can now have arranged soundtracks with CD quality audio. Cry me a river.

Did you read past the first 10 words?

 

a) All MSU-1 content is copyright infringement, period. Good luck finding all the pieces needed to make them work. That is the practical problem with all game mods, that they only work with one specific version of a game that nobody physically has, and can not get by any legal means. Good luck people with PAL systems or non-English NTSC carts, or people who have other romhacks they would want to also use.

 

b) The people doing the mods know this very damn well. So do the pirates, so the pirates just mod the game, release it in that form, and then people will incessently whine about how broken the game is when MSU-1 modded, when perhaps the bugs were fixed if you just patched a virgin rom correctly. Or maybe you really do have a rom dumper, and it turns out you don't have the right version of the game, and patching it instead produces garbage.

 

If you can not see my point, don't bother replying, that goes for you too Wolf_