FPGA Based Videogame System

[D3ltax55]

Atleast the wireless receiver makes it easier to use controllers for other systems, cause they make all sorts of controllers Bluetooth in this age.. Getting adapters for the snes for other systems would of been a pain.

[Toth]

Ok, am i hearing this correctly. Someone wants to take an HDMI console, but convert it to composite so he can plug it into a Framemeister to convert to HDMI out? Something has to be wrong here. That makes zero sense.

It is a little different but his point is that the video quality should be identical on the Nt Mini as the original and it isn't for him using two different Nt Mini systems. Almost everyone was giving him crap for what he was doing rather than why he was getting the results he was getting. I am sure he was well aware he could simply use HDMI out from the Nt Mini.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Toth

[Thomas83Lin]

@kevtris, Would it be possible in the future for the Super Nt to dump game saves? That's a feature I'd love to see considering, I have some saves that's going on being 20+ years old.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Thomas83Lin

[Nomenclature]

The new 8bitdo controllers witht he analogue sticks seem to have a frame of lag. The old ones were tested to have no lag compared to originals.

 

The Super NT models should be the exact same as the old ones, but with a different shell. I can't confirm that though.

 

edit: Every single tear down I've seen of the 8bitdo SNES controllers show the plastic parts as being exactly the same as the original SNES controllers, except for the battery compartment. The membranes are different, more stiff and clicky, but besides that it really is an accurate representation of an SNES controller. Maybe it's just the rubber contacts giving people problems. I wish someone would work on spot on replacements for the rubber pads.

 

edit: these new bundle 2.4 ghz controllers for the minis also seem to have lag BTW.

 

Not true at all. Different weight, different pads (crappier), and a strictly inferior PCB (UDLR pads aren't split like the original nintendo PCB so diagonals don't function correctly). That plus added lag = the world's palest imitations, at twice the price. But again, I see why people use them, convenience and whatever, but for serious gaming, they're worthless.

 

This rule doesn't apply to things like the 360 wireless, Logitech PS2 wireless, Wavebird, etc. Some of which introduce lag but are still great controllers. Strictly talking about the original SNES controller (god) vs everything else.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Nomenclature

[Loukey]

It is a little different but his point is that the video quality should be identical on the Nt Mini as the original and it isn't for him using two different Nt Mini systems. Almost everyone was giving him crap for what he was doing rather than why he was getting the results he was getting. I am sure he was well aware he could simply use HDMI out from the Nt Mini.

 

I would expect that the NT mini would have a cleaner composite output, so maybe thats the difference he is seeing.

[Kismet]

 

This is just wrong. As usual TBH. But seriously. It's just plain wrong. PEople tested lag back in the day for the xbox 360 wireless controller and found none.

 

PS3 and xbox 360 controllers were tested back in the day and people found about 1ms of lag. That means none. People have tested the 8bit do controllers too, and found no lag on their origial wireless bluetooth SNES controllers with the SNES receivers.

 

People found lag on the newer models with snes style and analog sticks, and also on the ones that come bundle with receivers for the SNES and NES mini.

 

Tons of wired controllers have lag too. So this wired vs wireless is complete bullshit. You have to look at for each single controller. on PS4 people found out using the controller over USB was lagging MORE than the wireless. I think they fixed that now though. Still, it's same lag now.

 

There is a logical reason for this. With digital-only pads (eg NES/SNES w/o analog sticks) you don't need to sample the analog signal with a microcontroller. With the original NES/SNES and other simple pads, there is literately nothing in the controller but a shift register.

[Jagasian]

 

Not true at all. Different weight, different pads (crappier), and a strictly inferior PCB (UDLR pads aren't split like the original nintendo PCB so diagonals don't function correctly). That plus added lag = the world's palest imitations, at twice the price. But again, I see why people use them, convenience and whatever, but for serious gaming, they're worthless.

 

This rule doesn't apply to things like the 360 wireless, Logitech PS2 wireless, Wavebird, etc. Some of which introduce lag but are still great controllers. Strictly talking about the original SNES controller (god) vs everything else.

The original OEM Nintendo made in Japan SNES controllers have never been matched. In the late 1990s, I bought 20 new SNES controllers from Nintendos official replacement parts website. I received the order, and then days later a call from Nintendo saying that I was not allowed to buy from them ever again because they believed that I was scalping replacement parts. Whatever. I have a lifetime supply of factory sealed Nintendo SNES controllers.

 

Even old used official SNES controllers are better than all of the third party crap out there. The only aftermarket SNES controller that is maybe OK, is the Cirka S91. I bought 4 of them on Amazon. One if them had an unreliable R button, but the other 3 worked and came close to the feel of a SNES controller that had been used for 10 years. It is much lighter weight and more flemsy than an official controller, but the shape and feel makes me think the exact plastic mold shape is an exact pirated copy of the real thing.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Jagasian

[NE146]

Yeah original were great of course.. but this imho is still the best SNES pad hands down

 

[leods]

 

Not true at all. Different weight, different pads (crappier), and a strictly inferior PCB (UDLR pads aren't split like the original nintendo PCB so diagonals don't function correctly). That plus added lag = the world's palest imitations, at twice the price. But again, I see why people use them, convenience and whatever, but for serious gaming, they're worthless.

 

This rule doesn't apply to things like the 360 wireless, Logitech PS2 wireless, Wavebird, etc. Some of which introduce lag but are still great controllers. Strictly talking about the original SNES controller (god) vs everything else.

 

Oh, sure. The board itself is different. The pads, the board itself and the plastic of which they're made is different. The pieces are very similarly shaped though. Seriously accurate.

 

Now as I said, the bluetooth SNES digital pads from 8bitdo don't have perceivable added lag. It's been teted agains the original controllers. MAybe it has a couple ms, but NO ONE can perceive that much. You can do any speed run, or win any world championship with a couple ms of lag.

 

Kismet: Thanks for the info. I actually imagined there was some sort of reason related to the analogues, but I had no insight on that at all. cool to know.

[Wolf_]

 

This is just wrong. As usual TBH. But seriously. It's just plain wrong. PEople tested lag back in the day for the xbox 360 wireless controller and found none.

 

PS3 and xbox 360 controllers were tested back in the day and people found about 1ms of lag. That means none. People have tested the 8bit do controllers too, and found no lag on their origial wireless bluetooth SNES controllers with the SNES receivers.

 

People found lag on the newer models with snes style and analog sticks, and also on the ones that come bundle with receivers for the SNES and NES mini.

 

Tons of wired controllers have lag too. So this wired vs wireless is complete bullshit. You have to look at for each single controller. on PS4 people found out using the controller over USB was lagging MORE than the wireless. I think they fixed that now though. Still, it's same lag now.

I probably should also have mentioned I live in NY and that all wireless devices are subject to interference at some level so being in a densely populated area with a bajillion signals in the air means that you will see worse performance. (apartment complexes being the worst, used to pick up signals from my neighbors wavebirds and audio from their baby monitors when my sister was young.)

 

Also 1ms of lag is still 1ms which means it is slower, but as I said wireless tech can still be "fast enough", in this case imperceptibly slower. Perhaps I undersold how little impact the delay can have but I didn't mean to make it sound like wireless would always feel laggy.

 

I tend to swing towards wired controllers though as they are generally faster even if it is by an amount that doesn't matter and I will never have to worry about the batteries dying.

[Riptide]

(UDLR pads aren't split like the original nintendo PCB so diagonals don't function correctly).

Could you expand on this part a bit? ty

[jamon1567]

In my living room on my flat screen, the wireless controllers on the Mini and (soon to be) Super NT are good enough, and that's underselling them a little bit IMO. When I want to do some serious gaming, I use OEM controllers on original systems hooked up to my BVM. I could easily grab an OEM controller and an extension for the Mini and the Super NT if I felt I needed it, but the SF30 pad has been working well enough that I've not felt the need on my Mini. If I did though, dogbone FTW

[Nomenclature]

 

Oh, sure. The board itself is different. The pads, the board itself and the plastic of which they're made is different. The pieces are very similarly shaped though. Seriously accurate.

 

Now as I said, the bluetooth SNES digital pads from 8bitdo don't have perceivable added lag. It's been teted agains the original controllers. MAybe it has a couple ms, but NO ONE can perceive that much. You can do any speed run, or win any world championship with a couple ms of lag.

 

Kismet: Thanks for the info. I actually imagined there was some sort of reason related to the analogues, but I had no insight on that at all. cool to know.

 

I don't believe that "couple of ms" statement at all. Likely much more than that. And lag is still lag, no speedrunner will opt for something with more lag, regardless of how much.

[Sneakyturtleegg]

A lot of people like the Cirka S91 for the SNES. I never had one, but I ended up buying the newer wired Hyperkin SNES Scout. I run that through a Raphnet SNES to NES adapter to play on the NT Mini. It is a bit lighter than an OEM SNES controller, but is just as responsive. It has a slightly different feel but I actually like it better than an old OEM controller. It is my daily driver for the NT Mini and SNES. I've replaced the rubber contact pads on numerous old OEM controllers with various results. At this point I prefer to buy new 3rd party controllers. I am also a big fan of the Hyperkin GN6 for the Sega Genesis. I think it is one of the best reproduction controllers for any system. It is inexpensive, responsive and almost exactly like an OEM. I swear they are made from the same molds as the originals.

 

I also tried the Hyperkin NES Cadet. I didn't like the D-Pad at all. However, the board from an OEM controller will fit in the Cadet casing. I did that swap and it is great. A Frankenstein, but another new favorite and daily driver. I really like the feel of the Cadet controller/shell much better than an original NES controller.

 

If I feel the need for a joystick, I have the 8bitdo N30. I swapped the original joystick with a Seimitsu LS-32 and swapped the buttons for Sanwas. If I use this on the NT Mini, I need to update the receiver's firmware to the latest. Can't use the NT Mini firmware for the receiver. It won't pair. Some of the button mappings are off, but I've never had any problems using it for Colecovision, A2600, Master System or NES so far. It works well on the SNES, but unfortunately not for SFII. If I wanted to, I could physically swap the wiring of a few buttons to map them properly to the SNES. The N30 is actually a USB/bluetooth stick designed for the Switch, Android, Windows and macOS, not our retro systems.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Sneakyturtleegg

[leods]

 

Not true at all. Different weight, different pads (crappier), and a strictly inferior PCB (UDLR pads aren't split like the original nintendo PCB so diagonals don't function correctly). That plus added lag = the world's palest imitations, at twice the price. But again, I see why people use them, convenience and whatever, but for serious gaming, they're worthless.

 

This rule doesn't apply to things like the 360 wireless, Logitech PS2 wireless, Wavebird, etc. Some of which introduce lag but are still great controllers. Strictly talking about the original SNES controller (god) vs everything else.

 

BTW, by diagonals don't function properly you mean it's too easy to press unwanted diagonals? Cause I just tested my 8bitdo SN30 Bluetooth controller and it's ridiculously easy to press any diagonal I want. It's also ridiculously easy to press half circle motions and have the diagonal register. Now what is basically impossible to do is to alternate the directions left and right quickly without having up or down regster too. Imagine you're playing super contra for example, and you want to shoot some guys behind you, and some guys in front of you. You will shoot a bullet diagonal up or diagonal down in the transition. I can see a less careful player shooting diagonals he doesn't intend to. Just pressing right, if you more the pressure of your finger a tiny bit up or down a diagonal will register. Being careful that won't happen though. But then again, that's annoying.

 

It's not terrible mind you.

 

Also, retesting, as I said before, the rubbers are stiffer and clickier in my controller. If you look at the controller, or feel it up without pressing buttons, it's spot on. It's really ridiculously accurate. Once you start pressing buttons the feel is (to me) completely different. Buttons and d-pad feel stiff, and this stiffnes makes the d-pad feel less responsive. L and R are too clicky too. I have already tested it previously with SFII, and although I can pull all moves, I just perform better and feel more comfortable using the Buffalo (iBuffalo) controller. That controller is less accurate to the original, but it's better than the 8bitdo. Now this is all under windows of course. The ibuffalo is a usb controller.

 

After an hour session of SFII my left thumb hurts from the stiffnes of the d-pad.

 

Not a big deal, since I prefer to play SFII on an arcade stick anyway, or if I was getting a pad I have multiple pads that are better than a SNES pad, like the Genesis 6 button, Sega Saturn, Hori's Fighting Commander, and the list goes on...

 

I am considering this is not completely off-topic, because we are talking about the "official" controllers for the SNT. If this is going too far tell me and I'll immediately shut up.

Edited February 4, 2018 by leods

[Riptide]

 

BTW, by diagonals don't function properly you mean it's too easy to press unwanted diagonals? Cause I just tested my 8bitdo SN30 Bluetooth controller and it's ridiculously easy to press any diagonal I want. It's also ridiculously easy to press half circle motions and have the diagonal register. Now what is basically impossible to do is to alternate the directions left and right quickly without having up or down regster too. Imagine you're playing super contra for example, and you want to shoot some guys behind you, and some guys in front of you. You will shoot a bullet diagonal up or diagonal down in the transition. I can see a less careful player shooting diagonals he doesn't intend to. Just pressing right, if you more the pressure of your finger a tiny bit up or down a diagonal will register. Being careful that won't happen though. But then again, that's annoying.

 

Unwanted diagonals was my experience on the controller that came with the NT Mini. After swapping the plastic dpad and rubber thing with an OEM controller it got much better.

[Daschewie]

I think Analogue did the right thing, by not including a controller with the system. Everyone has an opinion on wired vs wireless and gamepad brands.

 

You get the most wireless versatility by getting a retro-receiver. If you don't like the 8bitdo controllers, you can use a PS3, PS4, or Wii U Pro controller with it.

 

If you like the feel of OEM SNES controllers, you can use old stock with extension cable. You can get new SNES Classic controllers and use

the Raphnet Classic Controller to SNES adapter with 4ms (1/4 frame) latency: http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/classic_to_snes/index.php

 

I don't think the quality of the 8bitdo controllers should reflect on the Super NT. Heaven forbid, if Analogue tried to make their own controllers.

 

 

 

[cfillak]

I think Analogue did the right thing, by not including a controller with the system. Everyone has an opinion on wired vs wireless and gamepad brands.

 

You get the most wireless versatility by getting a retro-receiver. If you don't like the 8bitdo controllers, you can use a PS3, PS4, or Wii U Pro controller with it.

 

If you like the feel of OEM SNES controllers, you can use old stock with extension cable. You can get new SNES Classic controllers and use

the Raphnet Classic Controller to SNES adapter with 4ms (1/4 frame) latency: http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/classic_to_snes/index.php

 

I don't think the quality of the 8bitdo controllers should reflect on the Super NT. Heaven forbid, if Analogue tried to make their own controllers.

 

 

 

Yeah I might grab a pair of these adapters so I can play with some fresh OEM controllers.

[+eebuckeye]

Does the Super NT start shipping the 7th or earlier? No shipping notification for me yet.... waiting... :-)

[F34R]

Does the Super NT start shipping the 7th or earlier? No shipping notification for me yet.... waiting... :-)

Shipping on the 7th, per their store.

[Shin_K]

I have a lot of different SNES controllers for back then (I even got 2 beaten up SFC controller for chip to mod to plug my arcade stick on them^^), I did end up getting one 8bit retro reciever if I ever want to wirelessly play games with a wiiu controller where lag isn't important like turn based jrpg.

[Nomenclature]

The PCB on the original OEM controllers UDLR are split, where as all the 8bitdo controllers they're not (just a single on/off switch for each direction). No matter what the rest of the parts are, the 8bitdo PCB's diagonals will never function correctly. Why they don't just replicate this part too, I have no idea. Just cheap form over function I guess, seeing as 99% of people won't care or don't know the difference, and it might cost them an extra .50$ a unit to do it correctly.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Nomenclature

[Wolf_]

I think Analogue did the right thing, by not including a controller with the system. Everyone has an opinion on wired vs wireless and gamepad brands.

 

You get the most wireless versatility by getting a retro-receiver. If you don't like the 8bitdo controllers, you can use a PS3, PS4, or Wii U Pro controller with it.

 

If you like the feel of OEM SNES controllers, you can use old stock with extension cable. You can get new SNES Classic controllers and use

the Raphnet Classic Controller to SNES adapter with 4ms (1/4 frame) latency: http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/classic_to_snes/index.php

 

I don't think the quality of the 8bitdo controllers should reflect on the Super NT. Heaven forbid, if Analogue tried to make their own controllers.

 

 

 

Absolutely, some of the most frequently given feedback for the Nt Mini was "Why the hell did you bundle this thing with a wireless nes controller and raise the cost of a $450 machine?!" and a lot of people said they would never use it or just wanted the receiver.

 

Sadly 8bit has taken this opportunity to keep sales up and now only sells the receiver bundled with the controller so you can't just buy the receiver and use an actual good controller with it, like the xenoblade chronicles switch pro controller which has a properly designed dpad. (Shame it looks like ass imo)

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Here is the current pool of controllers i pick from, depending on the system, game and my mood.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Sneakyturtleegg

[cacophony]

For those eagerly awaiting the Super Nt, Analogue just confirmed:

 

"100% of all pre-orders are shipping out on Feb 7th. They will all be pre-packed and going out together same day"

and

"All units will be shipping from Nevada."

 

According to the order page they'll ship out UPS ground, at least for US deliveries. This UPS site can be used to figure out approximate arrival date:

https://www.ups.com/maps

Edited February 4, 2018 by cacophony