FPGA Based Videogame System

[Radfoo]

Livestream was right in the middle of my workday!

 

Hopefully the archive goes up soon.

Only just morning here, so missed it as well. Would like to see.

[cacophony]

Only just morning here, so missed it as well. Would like to see.

 

It's up right here:

Edited February 12, 2018 by cacophony

[Kismet]

 

Okay so if this is the case, then theoretically is should be possible to get the Super Nt to look EXACTLY like the color output of Higan. I'm just curious about this because the biggest complaint I'm hearing about right now is the colors on the Super NT look noticeably different than Higan. To the point where hues look off.

 

And by the way, the SNES has a palette of 32,768. The 256 part comes into play when considering simultaneous colors on the screen.

 

5-5-5 is 15-bit color, commonly referred to as 32K colors.

 

If Higan is as accurate as byuu claims it to be, yes, the output from HDMI 4:4:4 from the SuperNT should have no subsampling on the input side and should loo identical. Keep in mind that many capture devices, because they do hardware encoding, actually naively capture at YUV 4:2:0 subsampling. The Component video Retrovision cables from a Super NES are as good as you're going to get without modifying the console.

 

So a slight difference in brightness should be the only thing perceived if all other things are the same, which is what the gamma setting is for in the Super NT.

 

For reference, this is what a GPM-02 with the HD Retrovision cable looks like on my SA7160 (micomsoft sc 512) (set to NTSC Japan apparently)

 

to reference back to Karbuncle on the previous page (Higan >>> SNES Classic >>> Junior console modded with Voultar board >>> 1CHIP03 with 750 Ohm resistors >>> APU SNES with subcarrier interference removed):

Edited February 12, 2018 by Kismet

[snatcher1996]

We're obviously getting a jailbreak firmware which is why they have declined to comment about it.

 

If we weren't getting it nothing would prevent them from saying no.

 

Yeah, obviously...

 

That's some screwed logic alright. Reminds me of this: "Only the true messiah denies his divinity"

 

Is it so hard to deduce why they shun everyone asking?

 

If they were to release a jailbreak, would it harm them if they told everyone now? No. Neither owners of a SNT nor future buyers would have reason to complain. On the contrary, it would just make a product high in demand even more worth owning.

 

If they indeed do not plan to jailbreak the Super NT and told everyone up front, would that shy away a lot of potential customers? For sure.

This is why they never answered that question.

[Loukey]

 

I can't speak to any NTSC composite issues you may be having, but PAL composite and S-Video is broken in the latest Nt Mini jailbreak firmware. If you revert to v1.7 that red and green banding should go away.

 

Is this a widely known issue? Is it limited to NES cores?

[Kismet]

 

Yeah, obviously...

 

That's some screwed logic alright. Reminds me of this: "Only the true messiah denies his divinity"

 

Is it so hard to deduce why they shun everyone asking?

 

If they were to release a jailbreak, would it harm them if they told everyone now? No. Neither owners of a SNT nor future buyers would have reason to complain. On the contrary, it would just make a product high in demand even more worth owning.

 

If they indeed do not plan to jailbreak the Super NT and told everyone up front, would that shy away a lot of potential customers? For sure.

This is why they never answered that question.

 

They aren't answering that question because it would affect things negatively if they do.

 

There's two scenarios, and we're not even looking at legal things.

 

A) someone drops the ball and announces the JB firmware, sales spike, and everyone who really wants one sits in preorder hell. Then the JB doesn't happen and people start wanting refunds.

 

B) no JB is ever announced and 2 years later it just shows up one day unannounced, like any other JB firmware for any other device, and then sales uptick.

 

Analogue already has sales figures for the NT Mini, they can see exactly at what point the JB spiked interest in it, and likely also when people started complaining that they couldn't buy it.

 

If it never gets a JB, then people who bought it for the potential JB, or to load it up with roms and resell it on eBay start wanting their money back. That is why you never market that feature, and the preorders were doing fine without any suggestion of a JB ever becoming available. If it's not promised, then people can't demand a refund for a feature that was never advertised in the first place.

 

That is why nobody gets an answer to that question. Even kevtris can not answer that question because people -here- at least know he's capable of doing it. Will it kill anyone to just stay patient. It's not like the everdrive and SD2SNES are going to vanish.

[Atariboy]

If they indeed do not plan to jailbreak the Super NT and told everyone up front, would that shy away a lot of potential customers? For sure.

This is why they never answered that question.

 

I disagree, this doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

It's an extra, with the vast majority that are seriously interested in buying it satisfied with its primary purpose. So they don't need to keep people's false hopes up by remaining silent on their stance to not allow the jailbreaking of the device, in the hope that it will trick some of those sitting on the fence into making this investment that they otherwise wouldn't have done had they known the truth. Fair or not, that's a tactic that will only backfire in time for the manufacturer.

 

I won't act like my opinion is fact like some do in this thread, but this silence and deliberate avoidance of answering questions on this particular topic when they otherwise communicate so well with the community, leaves me optimistic that a lot of nice extras could possibly appear in the months ahead for the Super NT. The situation may not be decided yet, but I bet that worse case, it hasn't been killed and remains a possibility.

 

With all of what I've read at AtariAge, I don't view this as something they'd keep away from the community had they decided against expanding the feature set in the way we're talking. If they're not saying anything, I bet it's only because they're not ready to talk. It's not because they're trying to pull the wool over some people's eyes in the hope that they'll sell a few hundred units faster than they otherwise would've had they revealed their stance against jailbreaking.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Atariboy

[atmn]

I dont know if anyone else noticed that if I disconnect and connect a 8bitdo retro reciever (SNES version ofc) the NT mini drops the hdmi connection. To be able to get it again I need to power off/power on.

 

And a thing that I never seen before in Super mario All stars, played lost levels.. stage 3-1.

When I hit the block and the vine began to grow it disappeared, I walked forward to move screen a bit and the vine disappered. I could climb it in the invisible state tho.

 

Dont know if It's a All stars bug or something with the super nt. Just wanna metion it.

 

Im on v3.9.

[snatcher1996]

 

I disagree, this doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

It's an extra, with the vast majority that are seriously interested in buying it satisfied with its primary purpose. So they don't need to keep people's false hopes up by remaining silent on their stance to not allow the jailbreaking of the device, in the hope that it will trick some of those sitting on the fence into making this investment that they otherwise wouldn't have done had they known the truth. Fair or not, that's a tactic that will only backfire in time for the manufacturer.

 

Sure it doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

But if those were in the pipeline why wouldn't they tell us? This is simply not how business works. Nobody would withhold information about their products' features because they deemed it would sell without it just as well. They would want their product to shine as bright as possible.

[Schizophretard]

 

Like with the NT Mini, I eventually plan on hooking it up to my 14" CRT on my office desk.. and why not?

 

If they restock and continue to sell the Nt Mini and if I decide to buy a Super Nt after seeing the DAC then they both could find their way all the way down to my 5" Sony Watchman.

[Atariboy]

 

Sure it doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

But if those were in the pipeline why wouldn't they tell us? This is simply not how business works. Nobody would withhold information about their products' features because they deemed it would sell without it just as well. They would want their product to shine as bright as possible.

 

And I don't think so little of Analogue and Kevtris as to think that they're deliberately withholding a decision that they've already made to not jailbreak the system and expand it past its current feature set, in the hope that their deliberate misconception sells a few more Super NT's to people that took it for granted or hoped that it would be expanded.

 

I find it far more likely that they're not saying anything simply because they don't have anything ready to discuss and/or they're saving it to announce after the initial launch excitement has cooled off after the first couple of rounds of preorders have shipped (That they'll sell every last one of easily, with or without saying anything about this other stuff), in order to stir excitement for future customers that they've yet to sell a system to.

 

Analogue gains nothing in the long run by selling a Super NT through deception to someone that will get angry when a feature they perhaps foolishly just assumed would happen, never does. It makes them less likely to become a return customer for a future product, more likely to try to dissuade other future Analogue customers at message boards and so on, etc.

 

Especially when there's plenty of people at this time that are more than happy just to buy a new high quality HD Super Nintendo system (Such as myself; All this other stuff is a nice bonus if something happens in this area, but they had me hooked just with the basic features out of the box).

Edited February 12, 2018 by Atariboy

[Schizophretard]

This 49" TCL 405 model has 14ms of input lag and only costs $330. Come on, no excuses to still be using crap displays.

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tcl-49-class-48-5-diag--led-2160p-smart-4k-ultra-hd-tv-roku-tv/5878701.p?skuId=5878701

Does it have the same level of compatibility that Kosmic Stardrunk described below? Does it have S-video and component? Does it fit in his entertainment center? Are there other things he may need to buy to hook up all his other consoles? What about his beer money?, etc.

 

the sanyo was purchased in 2007, 500 usd new, works with all my sd consoles, will sync to ntsc50 from atari/n64 (with bottom cropped off) and 720p 50hz hdmi. the hdmi lag at 720 is imperceptible though composite and rf have minor lag which is not game breaking. 2600 7800 sega nes snes n64 all work flawless on it, and it have discrete svideo and component inputs. please tell me where i can buy a new hdtv with this level of compatibility with out of spec signals. so please dont tell me to toss it in the trash just because it cant handle 1080p. its 26 inches so it could use an upgrade. id rather get a lightly used plasma from a few years back for my money (no shared component inputs) than a new set with poor analog compatibility.

[snatcher1996]

 

And I don't think so little of Analogue and Kevtris as to think that they're deliberately withholding a decision that they've already made to not jailbreak the system and expand it past its current feature set, in the hope that their deliberate misconception sells a few more Super NT's to people that took it for granted or hoped that it would be expanded.

 

I find it far more likely that they're not saying anything simply because they don't have anything ready to discuss and/or they're saving it to announce after the initial launch excitement has cooled off after the first couple of rounds of preorders have shipped (That they'll sell every last one of easily, with or without saying anything about this other stuff), in order to stir excitement for future customers that they've yet to sell a system to.

 

Analogue gains nothing in the long run by selling a Super NT through deception to someone that will get angry when a feature they perhaps foolishly just assumed would happen, never does. It makes them less likely to become a return customer for a future product, more likely to try to dissuade other future Analogue customers at message boards and so on, etc.

 

Especially when there's plenty of people at this time that are more than happy just to buy a new high quality HD Super Nintendo system (Such as myself; All this other stuff is a nice bonus if something happens in this area, but they had me hooked just with the basic features out of the box).

 

I would expect Analogue calling the shots in this regard rather than Kevtris and while I don't think little of them either, I understand they are running a business utilizing a strategy which information may be shared and in which discussions everyone involved may engage.

They are not deceiving anybody to buy their product by not answering just like they are not "lying by omission" as someone else cleverly phrased it before. They just choose to not answer this question and we are free to discuss what that may imply, either with common sense or wishful thinking.

[Pixelboy]

Sure it doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

But if those were in the pipeline why wouldn't they tell us? This is simply not how business works. Nobody would withhold information about their products' features because they deemed it would sell without it just as well. They would want their product to shine as bright as possible.

I don't recall Kevtris announcing in advance that he was planning to jailbreak the NT Mini. He surprised us all one day, out of the blue, with the first of a series of jailbreak cores.

 

Really, you guys make me laugh. You treat this jailbreak business like it's a total black-or-white thing, will he or won't he do it. What's to stop Kevtris from "porting" (if we can call it that) just a few of his NT Mini cores to the Super NT? ColecoVision, Atari 2600, perhaps Intellivision for a nice surprise since he hasn't gotten around to releasing it for the NT Mini, and some of his "obscure" cores like AdventureVision, etc.. I don't think Analogue would mind seeing cores appears for those "oldies" on the Super NT.

 

Nah, I'm pretty sure when you guys talk "jailbreak", what you really want to know is whether the system will play Super-NES ROMs, and perhaps more importantly, if it will play NES ROMs. Let's not forget that many of us (myself guilty as charged) are really looking for an all-in-one console that plays all the games of all our favorites systems. We got that to a certain point with the NT Mini, but it wasn't "strong" enough to support the 16-bit systems, so we were left wanting for more. Now the Super NT comes along, and the hope of ditching all our old failing consoles for a single all-in-one solution (with HDMI output!) is once again making us drool.

 

Well, I'm not going to ditch my NT Mini no matter that happens, mainly because I love playing NES and GameBoy games with an original NES controller. So the whole Super NT jailbreak thing is not terribly important to me.

 

To each his own, I guess.

[Kismet]

 

Sure it doesn't need additional cores to sell well.

 

But if those were in the pipeline why wouldn't they tell us? This is simply not how business works. Nobody would withhold information about their products' features because they deemed it would sell without it just as well. They would want their product to shine as bright as possible.

 

You do realize that the features in the NT Mini JB firmware are not in the official firmware right? Nowhere has Analogue said anything about the NT Mini JB firmware other than it won't void the warranty. Go watch kevtris interviews and videos about the NT Mini, basically he had all these other cores long before Analogue came along. It was basically a no-brainer to do this.

 

But the Super NT agreement likely has some provision in kevtris's agreement to work on it that he can't/won't release any non-official firmware within some time frame. I have to imagine that Analogue was not blindsided by that NT Mini JB firmware a week after the NT mini was released, but it was also a premium product that was only different from the RetroUSB AVS in that cost half the price up to that point. So if the JB made the NT Mini more attractive to one set of retro enthusiasts, that wasn't really doing any harm to Analogue as long as it wasn't being marketed as a feature in the first place. If anything, it probably resulted in less sales for the RetroUSB AVS.

 

In no case has the firmware for any of these devices been designed to prevent flash carts. Had they done that (and they sure could have), then you might question the motives for it.

[Wolf_]

 

Yeah, obviously...

 

That's some screwed logic alright. Reminds me of this: "Only the true messiah denies his divinity"

 

Is it so hard to deduce why they shun everyone asking?

 

If they were to release a jailbreak, would it harm them if they told everyone now? No. Neither owners of a SNT nor future buyers would have reason to complain. On the contrary, it would just make a product high in demand even more worth owning.

 

If they indeed do not plan to jailbreak the Super NT and told everyone up front, would that shy away a lot of potential customers? For sure.

This is why they never answered that question.

Your logic is the same as:

 

 

My point was that revealing that their wouldn't be a jailbreak would harm sales (relative to not saying anything)

Which I've already explained was stupid because:

 

Oh yea, because covering it up and misleading people would be great for sales. Absolutely wouldn't have any negative repercussions at any point. And so many, SO MANY people would continue to believe and buy the console just for the never confirmed jailbreak that isn't coming as long as Analogue simply doesn't say it never will.

Obviously any "damage" done by admitting jailbreak wouldn't be coming would be nothing compared to the damage of intentionally misleading people. What kind of reaction do you think people will have if they fall for this strategy you're proposing Analogue is using and buy a console expecting it to get a jailbreak because one hasn't been denied only to find out it isn't coming? Do you think they will be happy? Will they just say "Good one, guess I'm stuck with this product that doesn't suit my needs but man did they pull one over on me!"? Or will they return the console and find out shipping is only $10 instead of $40 and be even more upset?

 

If you think my logic is flawed I strongly suggest you take a long hard look at yours because it is terrible.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Wolf_

[SegaSnatcher]

Does it have the same level of compatibility that Kosmic Stardrunk described below? Does it have S-video and component? Does it fit in his entertainment center? Are there other things he may need to buy to hook up all his other consoles? What about his beer money?, etc.

 

It has composite, but not component.

[Fafner]

I think theyre holding back on a jailbreak because they havent decided on whether to let it happen or not.

Maybe theyre debating releasing a Analogue Genesis and if theyre planning that a Core on this device for Genesis would definitely hurt sales.

 

Ill love my Super Analogue with or without extra Cores but I sure would like some TG16 on it!

Edited February 12, 2018 by Fafner

[snatcher1996]

I don't recall Kevtris announcing in advance that he was planning to jailbreak the NT Mini. He surprised us all one day, out of the blue, with the first of a series of jailbreak cores.

 

Sure, but why would the past be indicative for the future here?

[snatcher1996]

 

You do realize that the features in the NT Mini JB firmware are not in the official firmware right? Nowhere has Analogue said anything about the NT Mini JB firmware other than it won't void the warranty. Go watch kevtris interviews and videos about the NT Mini, basically he had all these other cores long before Analogue came along. It was basically a no-brainer to do this.

 

But the Super NT agreement likely has some provision in kevtris's agreement to work on it that he can't/won't release any non-official firmware within some time frame. I have to imagine that Analogue was not blindsided by that NT Mini JB firmware a week after the NT mini was released, but it was also a premium product that was only different from the RetroUSB AVS in that cost half the price up to that point. So if the JB made the NT Mini more attractive to one set of retro enthusiasts, that wasn't really doing any harm to Analogue as long as it wasn't being marketed as a feature in the first place. If anything, it probably resulted in less sales for the RetroUSB AVS.

 

In no case has the firmware for any of these devices been designed to prevent flash carts. Had they done that (and they sure could have), then you might question the motives for it.

 

Why was it a no-brainer to give this community this worth of work for free? I think the NT Mini jailbreak was a fieldtest for his cores. After the release dozens of bugs got fixed. Why not monetize on them now?

[Wolf_]

 

Why was it a no-brainer to give this community this worth of work for free? I think the NT Mini jailbreak was a fieldtest for his cores. After the release dozens of bugs got fixed. Why not monetize on them now?

How do you know they weren't monetized on the nt mini? If Kevtris' contract stipulates the compensation for his work is a percentage of the sales then obviously selling a crap ton more consoles would mean he would make a crap ton more money.

[snatcher1996]

Your logic is the same as:

 

Which I've already explained was stupid because:

 

Obviously any "damage" done by admitting jailbreak wouldn't be coming would be nothing compared to the damage of intentionally misleading people. What kind of reaction do you think people will have if they fall for this strategy you're proposing Analogue is using and buy a console expecting it to get a jailbreak because one hasn't been denied only to find out it isn't coming? Do you think they will be happy? Will they just say "Good one, guess I'm stuck with this product that doesn't suit my needs but man did they pull one over on me!"? Or will they return the console and find out shipping is only $10 instead of $40 and be even more upset?

 

If you think my logic is flawed I strongly suggest you take a long hard look at yours because it is terrible.

 

I suggested they have A business strategy and act accordingly, not that false advertisement was their strategy. And it clearly isn't since they never advertised or announced anything jailbreak related or participate in that discussion. If anyone is fealing mislead or betrayed they should really question their reasoning to buy the Super NT.

[Wolf_]

 

I suggested they have A business strategy and act accordingly, not that false advertisement was their strategy. And it clearly isn't since they never advertised or announced anything jailbreak related or participate in that discussion. If anyone is fealing mislead or betrayed they should really question their reasoning to buy the Super NT.

For A LOT of people that reason is to play roms. While not commenting on it is not misleading them the fact is if Analogue were not releasing a jailbreak they would have no reason to keep silent about it because people will still feel misled if they hurry up and pre-order the system and put faith in them only to have Analogue not live up to their past amazing standards after refusing to say anything about it.

 

That would certainly leave many people not feeling well (some obviously irate because this is the internet and everyone is offended) and I would return my console out of principal because I need to vote with my wallet and a lack of rom support is not something I want them to make a policy out of.

[snatcher1996]

How do you know they weren't monetized on the nt mini? If Kevtris' contract stipulates the compensation for his work is a percentage of the sales then obviously selling a crap ton more consoles would mean he would make a crap ton more money.

 

I don't know any more than you do and sure, this might have been the case.

 

But I doubt that a jailbreak, if it is actually coming, will be handled the same way it was on the NT Mini.

 

I would love it to be, but expecting or even stating that it will, is just wishful thinking to me.

[Wolf_]

 

I don't know any more than you do and sure, this might have been the case.

 

But I doubt that a jailbreak, if it is actually coming, will be handled the same way it was on the NT Mini.

 

I would love it to be, but expecting or even stating that it will, is just wishful thinking to me.

Thinking that it isn't because people would react better to being kept in the dark than hearing the truth is just stupid thinking to me.