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kevtris

FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

637 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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@Kevtris

 

I want to report a possible bug with the PAL version of Super Mario World. The game has graphical glitches on the start screen, as well as on the top of the picture when the background scrolls during normal gameplay. There are also white points appearing during transitions on the world map.

 

Here's a video demonstrating them. (Sorry for recording it with my phone, I don't have capture equipment.)

 

https://youtu.be/wYsc8drTsws

 

I am running firmware 4.1 and a resolution of [email protected] I haven't noticed issues with my other PAL games.

 

Maybe it's related to running a PAL game with an output refresh rate of 60hz. I am unable to change the resolution to [email protected] The system seems to crash to a black screen when I try it. Only turning it off and on again fixes it. My TV is an LG B6 65". (The system also seems to crash when I press the Reset button.)

This can also been reproduced in a real console by running the game in NTSC mode via SuperCIC. If you set the hardware configuration to PAL instead of NTSC the glitches are gone

 

EDIT: Sorry I just saw that this had been answered before. Just to point that it also happens in a real console though

Edited by RickBa
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Did anyone order a 8Bitdo SN30 Retro Set controller to go with their Super NT? If so, is the D-Pad really that bad? A lot of the reviews say it has issues with diagonal inputs. What are your experiences with it?

 

https://www.amazon.com/8Bitdo-SN30-Retro-Set-Black-nintendo/dp/B075WRBK7Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

It is definitely true that the 8bit do controllers do more unwanted diagonals than the originals. It is eaier to get diagonals. Both wanted and unwanted ones. I don't know wether the new controllers are different, but I have 2 of the older ones that look exactly like SNES / SFC controllers, and they're good. Sure, I did crouch a couple times when I didn't want to, but overall I play games really well with them. Street Fighter, Contra, yoshi's Island etc.. My daughter (6yo) has been playing kirby and Yoshi's Island on these pads and she's been doing fine.

 

So, if you you think you would have problems with a controller that does diagonals much easier, and would have a hard time adjusting, yeah. Then they suck. If you think you can adapt, they're good. Now that I have been playing with the 8bitdo controllers. I have a bit of a hard time getting diagonals on my original pads. I need to be much more deliberate with the diagonals for them to register. That shows there really is a big difference.

 

One of the reviews is talking about the rubbers and modding them. If you substitute the rubbers for originals, or some other set that has the properties you want. you should be fine.

 

For the price, for a wireless controller that only adds one frame of lag, yeah, they're OK. If you can live with the cables, keep your originals. Even though I have 3 originals here and am happy with using the 8bit do even sitting right next to the console. So yeah. I'm personally happy with them.

 

Now yes. I did say a frame of lag, and my terrible and rudimentary testing seems to consistently show about a frame of added lag by these controllers. That makes the claims on Analogue's page false, and I have adressed this pre-release, but have been completely ignored. Not sure what's up with that, and I intend on keeping talking about that. These controllers are not lag free... :/

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@Kevtris

 

A question form your interview on RetroRGB

 

You mentioned you’ve learned some secrets about Hybrid Scanlines. Is this something that can be implemented in the Nt mini? Also gamma correction?

 

Did kevtris ever respond to this? I searched and couldn't find a post, sorry.

 

The only way to get scanlines on the Nt Mini as sharp as the hybrid scanlines on the Super Nt on my 1080p display is to run a vertical 4x multiplier in 1080p60 output with the display set to no overscan. Looks great, but leaves significant empty space top and bottom. Being able to use 5x vertical like the Super Nt would be awesome.

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Did kevtris ever respond to this? I searched and couldn't find a post, sorry.

 

The only way to get scanlines on the Nt Mini as sharp as the hybrid scanlines on the Super Nt on my 1080p display is to run a vertical 4x multiplier in 1080p60 output with the display set to no overscan. Looks great, but leaves significant empty space top and bottom. Being able to use 5x vertical like the Super Nt would be awesome.

 

 

If he did answer, I missed it.

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Now yes. I did say a frame of lag, and my terrible and rudimentary testing seems to consistently show about a frame of added lag by these controllers. That makes the claims on Analogue's page false, and I have adressed this pre-release, but have been completely ignored. Not sure what's up with that, and I intend on keeping talking about that. These controllers are not lag free... :/

Bluetooth always adds a bit of lag. It has some frequency hopping tech (for avoiding 2.4ghz wifi) and two-way communication syncing and stuff that causes this, IIRC. It's not a lot, but it is there. I assume modern consoles expect it. Even then, at competitive events they generally use controllers wired.

 

The RetroUSB NES controllers use straight up oldschool 2.4ghz RF chips instead for this reason. Bluetooth has more protocol lag, so to speak.

 

Then again, the error correction of BT is better when there is interference...better a button press a split second late than dropped. Trade offs.

 

As far as the diagonals, yeah, they are very easy to hit...causes the biggest issues on something like Contra that you need to shoot down/forward and then suddenly duck.

 

There's a tape mod for the older 8bitdos that is supposed to help. You can Google for some pictures on Reddit and the like. They are super easy to open up and work on. I've been fiddling on and off for a few days with a tape mod, but haven't quite gotten it where the diagonals are harder to hit for something like Contra, but not too hard for something like Street Fighter II.

 

Got pretty close though. Feel like I'll get there eventually.

Edited by GreenMonkey

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Bluetooth always adds a bit of lag. It has some frequency hopping tech (for avoiding 2.4ghz wifi) and two-way communication syncing and stuff that causes this, IIRC. It's not a lot, but it is there. I assume modern consoles expect it. Even then, at competitive events they generally use controllers wired.

 

The RetroUSB NES controllers use straight up oldschool 2.4ghz RF chips instead for this reason. Bluetooth has more protocol lag, so to speak.

 

Then again, the error correction of BT is better when there is interference...better a button press a split second late than dropped. Trade offs.

 

As far as the diagonals, yeah, they are very easy to hit...causes the biggest issues on something like Contra that you need to shoot down/forward and then suddenly duck.

 

There's a tape mod for the older 8bitdos that is supposed to help. You can Google for some pictures on Reddit and the like. They are super easy to open up and work on. I've been fiddling on and off for a few days with a tape mod, but haven't quite gotten it where the diagonals are harder to hit for something like Contra, but not too hard for something like Street Fighter II.

 

Got pretty close though. Feel like I'll get there eventually.

 

It kind of sucks that for $40 the controllers have a design defect and it seems this has been an ongoing issue with their controllers. They must know about it and they choose to correct it?

Edited by hexcode99

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Pardon my ignorance here, but if the Super Nt only outputs a signal in full-range RGB, what happens if my TV only supports limited range?

SNES was always a full-range machine. You would have had the same problem with the OG hardware.

 

To fix this, Kevtris would need to add a video range compressor to change it into limited range, which is fairly simple to do in a "dirty" way, just take the full range RGB value, multiply it by the ugly, non-integer value of 0.859375 (this is 220/256, the ratio of limited range to full range) then add 16, and round or truncate the result to an integer output value. The "dirtiness" of this is that every 36 or so steps in a smooth gradient, it will drop one, similar to dropping frames when converting from 60.09hz to 60.00hz in fully buffered mode. The alternative to losing steps in gradient would be to employ dithering, but that gets much more complicated.

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Pardon my ignorance here, but if the Super Nt only outputs a signal in full-range RGB, what happens if my TV only supports limited range?

I dunno, it will probably clip it to limited range.

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Hi, I'm new here but I have to just say thanks for looking into this. The colours on my Super NT are definitely off compared to my SFC Jr/OSSC, but it looks like you've pinpointed the issue.

 

I'm not sure if its been pointed out yet, but there's a few issues with scanlines. I've noticed the following:

 

1. Scanlines in 1080p mode don't scale along with the image - they stay at 1px height resulting in really thin scanlines that are out of proportion. The OSSC, for example, increases the height of the scanlines along with the image in 1080p to keep them in proportion. Any chance of this being implemented? Because right now, scanlines just don't look right in 1080p (720p is fine though).

 

2. I don't think the scanline depth slider works properly. It doesn't seem to have any effect - but weirdly, it suddenly does when you add a scaler. This is in 720p mode, top is without scaler, top is with - both at 200 depth:

 

edit: once I get my nikon out later, I can take some comparison shots of the scanlines like-for-like of both the OSSC and SNT in 1080p mode if it helps.

 

 

yes there's some issues with the scanlines; I am going to totally retool how they work in the relative near future when I get the rest of the game bugs handled. I want to get rounded edges and stuff working on it to make it look better.

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yes there's some issues with the scanlines; I am going to totally retool how they work in the relative near future when I get the rest of the game bugs handled. I want to get rounded edges and stuff working on it to make it look better.

 

 

All I need to hear. Thanks dude!

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Hi @kevtris !

The Super NT is awesome! This is the ultimate SNES, and when the rest of the bugs are ironed out it will probably be the last SNES I will ever need to buy :)

However, I have a few feature requests :)

 

1. Would it be possible to have a RGB color range setting like: Full (0-255) or Limited (16-235) like you have on the Nintendo Switch, Xbox etc?

2. Would it be possible to have an audio bitrate option like, 32 kHz (native), 44,1 kHz or 48kHz ? Maybe also the ability to select 16 or 24 bit?

Are you simulating the SNES's DSP in native 32 kHz internally and resampling to 48kHz? My receiver shows 48 kHz from the Super NT.

3. Simulation of the "real" non-linear RGB gamma ramps for the different video DACs sounds awesome!

4. Have you looked at what kind of HDMI device the Nintendo Switch / XBox / PS4 etc. are identifying themselves as? Are you sure "PC" is the right one? I though there was a special device type for gaming devices.

This will also tell the TV/Monitor to bypass most of the internal image processing to reduce input lag. Maybe this only applies to newer HDMI 2.0 standard? I'm not an expert on this... I guess a HDMI signal analyzer would be able

to tell what other gaming consoles are doing..

 

Hope this will make it into the firmware someday :)

 

Keep up the good work!!

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I got 2 of the "Classic" colored 8bitdo controllers and have been using them every day for over a week now. They seem fine to me. They don't feel cheaply made or anything. Granted they don't feel exactly like a first party SNES controller, but what does? I haven't had any problems with diagonals as some of the reviews claim, and I've played quite a bit of SFII Turbo and UMK3. Input lag, if any, is minimal. I got a perfect 00 on input lag on the 240p Test Suite on the Super NT in Fully Buffered Mode at 720p60 (though I probably couldn't replicate it if I tried). Battery life is fairly long as well, probably just under the advertised 20 hours.

 

But if you don't think you'll like them, you could always get just the Retro Receiver and pair it to any Bluetooth controller (like a Wii Remote with an SNES Classic Edition controller connected).

Edited by mrpopsicleman

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As a huge Mega Drive fan, I would absolutely love an FPGA based Mega Drive system. Maybe have an "overclock" option in the systems menu. I would prefer if it supported the Mega CD in some form. Maybe 2 versions, one with an extra FPGA to support a virtual Mega CD. 32x can honestly get fucked. It's not worth wasting any resources on that shit. One can dream.

Edited by lame gag
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As a huge Mega Drive fan, I would absolutely love an FPGA based Mega Drive system. Maybe have an "overclock" option in the systems menu. I would prefer if it supported the Mega CD in some form. Maybe 2 versions, one with an extra FPGA to support a virtual Mega CD. 32x can honestly get fucked. It's not worth wasting any resources on that shit. One can dream.

Agreed. I think that latest sega mega drive models from SEGA didn't supported 32x either. Sega CD support doesn't need to be embedded to the FPGA imho. An expansion port compatible with it would be enough.

 

Maybe Analog/kevtris could release a KickStarter for a Mega NT? That could be helpful for gauging interest from the community. And I truly believe they would be surprised with the outcome.

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It is definitely true that the 8bit do controllers do more unwanted diagonals than the originals. It is eaier to get diagonals. Both wanted and unwanted ones. I don't know wether the new controllers are different, but I have 2 of the older ones that look exactly like SNES / SFC controllers, and they're good. Sure, I did crouch a couple times when I didn't want to, but overall I play games really well with them. Street Fighter, Contra, yoshi's Island etc.. My daughter (6yo) has been playing kirby and Yoshi's Island on these pads and she's been doing fine.

 

So, if you you think you would have problems with a controller that does diagonals much easier, and would have a hard time adjusting, yeah. Then they suck. If you think you can adapt, they're good. Now that I have been playing with the 8bitdo controllers. I have a bit of a hard time getting diagonals on my original pads. I need to be much more deliberate with the diagonals for them to register. That shows there really is a big difference.

 

One of the reviews is talking about the rubbers and modding them. If you substitute the rubbers for originals, or some other set that has the properties you want. you should be fine.

 

For the price, for a wireless controller that only adds one frame of lag, yeah, they're OK. If you can live with the cables, keep your originals. Even though I have 3 originals here and am happy with using the 8bit do even sitting right next to the console. So yeah. I'm personally happy with them.

 

Now yes. I did say a frame of lag, and my terrible and rudimentary testing seems to consistently show about a frame of added lag by these controllers. That makes the claims on Analogue's page false, and I have adressed this pre-release, but have been completely ignored. Not sure what's up with that, and I intend on keeping talking about that. These controllers are not lag free... :/

 

If you're talking about my brother's post on Anandtech, it's not the rubber, it's the plastic. The nub on the bottom of the D-pad is slightly too small. It's the exact same problem as with the NES Classic Edition.

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It kind of sucks that for $40 the controllers have a design defect and it seems this has been an ongoing issue with their controllers. They must know about it and they choose to correct it?

The NES Classic Edition controller has the same exact issue and I paid $90 for one of those (despite the $10 MSRP). Point is, even Nintendo can't get it right. Makes Kirby's Adventure a pain when Kirby keeps puffing up to float and you're only trying to change directions of double-tap to run.

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I think I got misunderstood to some degree.

 

My stance is not that Kevtris should work on a Genesis core only if he was including 32X and Sega CD with it. I believe that Kevtris should call the shots what he wants to do and when he wants to do it, since this will ensure him being satisfied with his work and the quality of the product overall. If this will mean a complete package of the three mentioned systems, awesome! If not, so be it.

 

There is no point in persuading him not to work on the 32X, telling him it is a miserable system anyway with only subpar games when a) this is highly subjective (and not true :)) b) he is surely capable of judging for himself and c) his efforts were never geared towards what is best for business when you consider the cores for obscure systems he created. The latter may have changed now that he is working for / partnering with Analogue, but as I said they will know best what to do next if they call the shots and they clearly don't need the input from anyone in this forum.

 

This being said, I like the idea that Kevtris picks his projects based on his own desires, posts about them to the extent he want to, maybe uploads some great videos on youtube and us the community being bystanders admiring his work and appreciatinig whatever he likes to share with us. That and him making a pretty penny for the awesome stuff he gives us.

I think you're taking what I said out of context. I agree with you. These are his pet projects. What I was saying is that I'd be in the camp that wouldn't buy a stand alone FPGA Genesis. That's it. I was also suggesting that maybe Analogue should work on a Framemeister or OSSC type upscaler. Given the quality of Analogue's products I'm sure one could be made at the $150-$200 mark. It might be a better option than taking a chance on a system people would have split opinions on.

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I think you're taking what I said out of context. I agree with you. These are his pet projects. What I was saying is that I'd be in the camp that wouldn't buy a stand alone FPGA Genesis. That's it. I was also suggesting that maybe Analogue should work on a Framemeister or OSSC type upscaler. Given the quality of Analogue's products I'm sure one could be made at the $150-$200 mark. It might be a better option than taking a chance on a system people would have split opinions on.

 

Why not just get an OSSC if that's what you want?

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Why not just get an OSSC if that's what you want?

Because I have a feeling that given Analogue's resources they could do better. Analogue is surely bigger and has more capital than the makers of the OSSC. The company can actually afford to pay people to design an upscaler. Not to mention that they're making a digital to analogue converter with close to no lag. I'm sure this could be made the other way around. Plus, I'm sure Analogue could make a much "prettier" and more straightforward upscaler. There are just too many compatibility issues with the OSSC, namely with the SNES, that was one of the reasons I went with the Super NT over it.

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Honestly I don't see what the whole fuss about the 32x is. The 32x only has like 5-6 good games anyway. I don't think it would be logical or worth it to double the cost and DEV time of a Genesis FPGA for those.

Just my opinion.

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Because I have a feeling that given Analogue's resources they could do better. Analogue is surely bigger and has more capital than the makers of the OSSC. The company can actually afford to pay people to design an upscaler. Not to mention that they're making a digital to analogue converter with close to no lag. I'm sure this could be made the other way around. Plus, I'm sure Analogue could make a much "prettier" and more straightforward upscaler. There are just too many compatibility issues with the OSSC, namely with the SNES, that was one of the reasons I went with the Super NT over it.

 

But the OSSC isn't an upscaler. It's a linemultiplier. Hence why it has compatibility issues with some displays - because it simply multiplies the input lines by however much (x3/x4/x5) and throws it straight to the display at the same spec. It's the only way to acheive what the OSSC does with zero lag, and the SNES is quite off-spec when it comes to HD displays.

 

What you're asking for is an upscaler like the framemeister...which defeats the purpose of why people like me bought the OSSC (zero lag RGB to HD)

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I think I got misunderstood to some degree.

 

My stance is not that Kevtris should work on a Genesis core only if he was including 32X and Sega CD with it. I believe that Kevtris should call the shots what he wants to do and when he wants to do it, since this will ensure him being satisfied with his work and the quality of the product overall. If this will mean a complete package of the three mentioned systems, awesome! If not, so be it.

 

There is no point in persuading him not to work on the 32X, telling him it is a miserable system anyway with only subpar games when a) this is highly subjective (and not true :)) b) he is surely capable of judging for himself and c) his efforts were never geared towards what is best for business when you consider the cores for obscure systems he created. The latter may have changed now that he is working for / partnering with Analogue, but as I said they will know best what to do next if they call the shots and they clearly don't need the input from anyone in this forum.

 

This being said, I like the idea that Kevtris picks his projects based on his own desires, posts about them to the extent he want to, maybe uploads some great videos on youtube and us the community being bystanders admiring his work and appreciatinig whatever he likes to share with us. That and him making a pretty penny for the awesome stuff he gives us.

Feedback is incredibly helpful for companies even if they don't ask for it. As consumers of Analogue products I believe our input is highly valuable.

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But the OSSC isn't an upscaler. It's a linemultiplier. Hence why it has compatibility issues with some displays - because it simply multiplies the input lines by however much (x3/x4/x5) and throws it straight to the display at the same spec. It's the only way to acheive what the OSSC does with zero lag, and the SNES is quite off-spec when it comes to HD displays.

 

What you're asking for is an upscaler like the framemeister...which defeats the purpose of why people like me bought the OSSC (zero lag RGB to HD)

OK. Did't need the whole explanation there, I know that the two achieve better picture quality through different methods. Both the Framemeister and OSSC are a means to the same end: To get old consoles to look better on modern displays. I am only making a suggestion that making an upscaler might be more prudent than a dedicated FPGA Genesis. I am only positing that given the monstrous add-ons of the Genesis that the community could be split on the notion. I am not demanding anything here, only making a suggestion in a public forum. The rest is entirely up to Kevtris and Analogue.

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But the OSSC isn't an upscaler. It's a linemultiplier. Hence why it has compatibility issues with some displays - because it simply multiplies the input lines by however much (x3/x4/x5) and throws it straight to the display at the same spec. It's the only way to acheive what the OSSC does with zero lag, and the SNES is quite off-spec when it comes to HD displays.

 

What you're asking for is an upscaler like the framemeister...which defeats the purpose of why people like me bought the OSSC (zero lag RGB to HD)

I don't understand why tvs would have an issue with certain resolutions. Shouldn't it be easy for them to either stretch or cutoff the picture they are sent?

 

I could understand if some tvs couldn't handle the odd 60.8hz type stuff some consoles output but none of my tvs have ever had issues with anything thrown at them.

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Honestly I don't see what the whole fuss about the 32x is. The 32x only has like 5-6 good games anyway. I don't think it would be logical or worth it to double the cost and DEV time of a Genesis FPGA for those.

Just my opinion.

100% agreed. I find this sudden love for 32X amusing.

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