FPGA Based Videogame System

[RupanIII]

Hey Kevin, Odd question.
I haven't seen a teardown of the Analogues. I was just wondering about the clocks. Were you able to generate them with the embedded FPGA clock or did you end up using an external clock for the proper frequencies?

Edited February 18, 2018 by RupanIII

[retro_fan]

Hey Kevin, Odd question.

I haven't seen a teardown of the Analogues. I was just wondering about the clocks. Were you able to generate them with the embedded FPGA clock or did you end up using an external clock for the proper frequencies?

 

 

Inside the Analogue Super Nt

[brentonius]

Video is live now in case people missed it. Youtube compression did ubfuscate the scanlines a bit, which is expected for 720p camera footage.

 

Oh my Kosmic... Thanks for the upload, but I couldn't sit through it all. As a guy who spent the day editing podcasts, that was excruciatingly painful... I'd recommend a re-upload eliminating 95% of the "uhhhs" and "ummms" and maybe speeding things up a little.

 

As for content, I think the the time spent speculating on the conspiracy theory about Kevtris being behind the jailbreak was a bit of a waste as nothing can really be proved either way. Comes off a bit of rambling, maybe just stick to the facts, or more interesting aspects of the console. Sure, it's fine to state your opinion on the matter, but I wouldn't use such strong language with your speculation such as "ludicrous" to not accept your hypothesis about the jailbreak. Just out of curiosity, I jumped from the middle of your review to around 22:40 and again you mention Kevtris and the jailbreak conspiracy. Again, facts are best, mainly because you might not come off in a good light, or your review may not age well, if your hypothesis is incorrect.

 

I hope you take that as constructive criticism so that your YouTube channel might flourish and bring more people to it.

 

(BTW: is a review of a review kind of meta?)

[CZroe]

 

 

 

It looks like someone has already done some testing with SNES surround sound games and the Super Nt: "I'm running the Super NT into a Denon AVR-S930H via HDMI, which detected and decoded the Dolby Surround from Fatal Fury Special. I can't even describe how weird and cool it is to hear SNES games in actual surround. It's bananas. Highly recommended."

Thanks!

 

720p mode works fine on 1080p displays, even with scanlines, but this depends upon the quality of the built in scalar. On my ASUS, they look gorgeous. If your "1080p" display cannot disable overscan, it takes 1080p input, scales it to approximately 110% scale, cropping 108 hd scanlines from the top and bottom of the image. This translates to roughly 21.6 snes scanlines in 5x mode, cropping the screen from 216 scanlines to 195 scanlines. At this point, the picture will have been cropped beyond the 15% safe area, possibly cutting off important hud information. The thin scanlines in 5x mode being scaled an extra 10% will cause ~11 pixels of screen for every 2 snes scanlines, roughly 5.5 pixel scale leading to an uneven look. In this situation, 4.5x mode will create uneven scanlines before scaling, resulting in more unevenness when scaled up 10%. Non-integer scaling is less detrimental when closer to a n.5 ratio as opposed to n.1 or n.9 ratios. So on 1080p sets where you cannot disable overscan, a 720p image scaled by 1.6x onscreen will be more desirable than a 1080p image scaled by 1.1. My two cents...

We have a different definition of “works fine.” Having indistinctly scaled lines that look even by blending rows is as bad as having distinct lines that are obviously uneven by multiplying rows. A good scaler that can fool your eyes still can’t fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

The blending or uneven thickness is exactly what causes artifacting when using scanlines. The scaling algorithm can’t distinguish intended graphics detail from the scanlines without something like a profile to apply in real time, kinda like a Framemeister, and even that would only apply to 240p. No LCD monitors or TVs have scalers with that level of awareness. We’re lucky when they support native 240p at all!

 

Probably showing my lack of attention.. but I have to say throughout my life I never noticed "scan lines" on any CRT, or knew of their existence/that they were a thing, until they were pointed out to me during discussions like these. And I've had CRT's pointing in my face a long time lemme tell ya

I literally have 30 (yes: thirty) SD CRTs and two SVGA CRTs turned on and in my face right now and I don’t see scanlines either...

 

...but that’s because none of them are showing 240p. (30 at 480i, two at 600p).

[Jakir]

 

Oh my Kosmic... Thanks for the upload, but I couldn't sit through it all. As a guy who spent the day editing podcasts, that was excruciatingly painful... I'd recommend a re-upload eliminating 95% of the "uhhhs" and "ummms" and maybe speeding things up a little.

 

As for content, I think the the time spent speculating on the conspiracy theory about Kevtris being behind the jailbreak was a bit of a waste as nothing can really be proved either way. Comes off a bit of rambling, maybe just stick to the facts, or more interesting aspects of the console. Sure, it's fine to state your opinion on the matter, but I wouldn't use such strong language with your speculation such as "ludicrous" to not accept your hypothesis about the jailbreak. Just out of curiosity, I jumped from the middle of your review to around 22:40 and again you mention Kevtris and the jailbreak conspiracy. Again, facts are best, mainly because you might not come off in a good light, or your review may not age well, if your hypothesis is incorrect.

 

I hope you take that as constructive criticism so that your YouTube channel might flourish and bring more people to it.

 

(BTW: is a review of a review kind of meta?)

It has been done, and for the SNT in fact:

 

Also I don't see the problem with him speculating on the maker of the jailbreak considering the odds he is correct.

[atmn]

yes it has a composite amp on it. this is because loading on the video pin is critical, and even the 1-2 inch route on the pcb is too much, and it will pick noise up and cause issues. So I have a built in composite amp to compensate.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, felt strange just to bypass a signal direct from pin21, .. but its not pin21 actually. I suppose a 220uF cap could be good. Using a 3.5mm composite/audio for the analoge out on a US NES2 toploader. and tossed the rf box.

[brentonius]

Haha that is an awesome link, Jakir!

 

Will have to watch this later

 

Umm, as for the speculation, I suppose part of it is that the conspiracy theory posts on this forum really spammed the ole' inbox, and I couldn't care less, as all opinions are unsupported (no actual evidence) on either side. I mean, a healthy degree of speculation is fine, but I feel it's gotten out of hand, especially when folks are so strongly opinioned when really, they shouldn't be.

Edited February 18, 2018 by brentonius

[Radfoo]

 

Inside the Analogue Super Nt

 

 

anyone know what the j4 and j7 headers are for? edit - is one of them for the LED?

Edited February 18, 2018 by Radfoo

[Kismet]

 

anyone know what the j4 and j7 headers are for? edit - is one of them for the LED?

Given the location, they're probably controller headers. Only 5 pins are used on them.

[F34R]

Here's Smoke talking about the j/b release. Starts at 1:33.

 

[RupanIII]

X1 looks like an external clock for as close as I could get.

 

Inside the Analogue Super Nt

[Andromeda Stardust]

Here's Smoke talking about the j/b release. Starts at 1:33.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTRtVG4Msg

Yeah smoke monster working directly with our "anonomous" leaker. Glad to know Kevtris has an evil clone somewhere out in cyberspace who does his own bidding!

[Shadowgate]

Anyone have thoughts on the Sd2snes ever getting more support for the various expansion chips? All the status page says is its planned to attempt but I've seen a lot of speculation that some of them are not possible on the existing hardware. It's an expensive device selling a lot of units so I'm surprised it's not getting more active support. My hope is that the super nt eventually fills the gap but I wonder if we will eventually see a new version the Sd2snes with updated hardware.

[Jakir]

Anyone have thoughts on the Sd2snes ever getting more support for the various expansion chips? All the status page says is its planned to attempt but I've seen a lot of speculation that some of them are not possible on the existing hardware. It's an expensive device selling a lot of units so I'm surprised it's not getting more active support. My hope is that the super nt eventually fills the gap but I wonder if we will eventually see a new version the Sd2snes with updated hardware.

Well Krikzz has a lot of ongoing projects like developing a gba ed x7 and running his business and ect. Hopefully the release of the SNT JB will light a fire under him and motivate him to get some work done on the sa-1 and SuperFX chips.

[SegaSnatcher]

Well Krikzz has a lot of ongoing projects like developing a gba ed x7 and running his business and ect. Hopefully the release of the SNT JB will light a fire under him and motivate him to get some work done on the sa-1 and SuperFX chips.

Krikzz isn't behind the SD2SNES development. He just sells them. Ikari is the original creator and the one who is creating new firmware for it.

[mario64]

Hi all,

 

Got my Super NT setup today and am having a weird problem. Specifically, left/right scrolling is a bit jerky. For example, in Super Mario World's "Yoshi's Island 2" level. As you begin you have a very long stretch where you move from left to right. If you kill all the enemies then simply run full speed in either direction, every couple seconds or so you get a brief stutter. I've tried all 3 buffer modes and they make no difference. Anyone else seeing this?

 

Thanks,

Mario

[Thomas83Lin]

Hi all,

 

Got my Super NT setup today and am having a weird problem. Specifically, left/right scrolling is a bit jerky. For example, in Super Mario World's "Yoshi's Island 2" level. As you begin you have a very long stretch where you move from left to right. If you kill all the enemies then simply run full speed in either direction, every couple seconds or so you get a brief stutter. I've tried all 3 buffer modes and they make no difference. Anyone else seeing this?

 

Thanks,

Mario

Just checked, It happens on real hardware also.

[mario64]

Just checked, It happens on real hardware also.

Oh ok. Thank you for checking. Must be a game engine issue then. Whew

[brentonius]

Anyone have thoughts on the Sd2snes ever getting more support for the various expansion chips? All the status page says is its planned to attempt but I've seen a lot of speculation that some of them are not possible on the existing hardware. It's an expensive device selling a lot of units so I'm surprised it's not getting more active support. My hope is that the super nt eventually fills the gap but I wonder if we will eventually see a new version the Sd2snes with updated hardware.

 

I think the main expansion chip I would like to see support for is the Super FX chip. The thing about this chip and probably why it has not been supported, is because it's really a little GSU. Or at least that's what I've been told by a programmer who has worked on various consoles including the DS. Apparently it may be so complex it would be difficult to port over to an FPGA. I am not technical enough to understand why it exists already in emulation but not on FPGA.

[DarkkOne]

 

I think the main expansion chip I would like to see support for is the Super FX chip. The thing about this chip and probably why it has not been supported, is because it's really a little GSU. Or at least that's what I've been told by a programmer who has worked on various consoles including the DS. Apparently it may be so complex it would be difficult to port over to an FPGA. I am not technical enough to understand why it exists already in emulation but not on FPGA.

 

For me, it's 100% Mario RPG. The FX games are fun (Yoshi's Island in particular) but I don't really miss them that much, but Mario RPG makes me want to come back from time to time.

 

My understanding about the limitations of FPGA is that there's basically a bit of a complexity cap. On a PC, with emulation, the more complex something is the slower it is. In these FPGA environments, if it's too complex or requires too much "space" on the chip, or other things, you hit a ceiling and it's just not going to work without a bigger, better chip. You can't "fit" it all in there.

[SegaSnatcher]

With physical Super-FX games being so cheap I don't see the rush for anyone to put in all the work just to get the 5 or so S-FX games to either run off a Flash Card or via Jailbroken Firmware.

SA1 would be better since some of those Kirby games are getting kinda expensive.

Edited February 19, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[Sbeehive]

 

With physical Super-FX games being so cheap I don't see the rush for anyone to put in all the work just to get the 5 or so S-FX games to either run off a Flash Card or via Jailbroken Firmware.

 

SA1 would be better since some of those Kirby games are getting kinda expensive.

 

 

 

For me, it's 100% Mario RPG. The FX games are fun (Yoshi's Island in particular) but I don't really miss them that much, but Mario RPG makes me want to come back from time to time.

 

My understanding about the limitations of FPGA is that there's basically a bit of a complexity cap. On a PC, with emulation, the more complex something is the slower it is. In these FPGA environments, if it's too complex or requires too much "space" on the chip, or other things, you hit a ceiling and it's just not going to work without a bigger, better chip. You can't "fit" it all in there.

 

 

 

At this point I think I'd take whatever we get. I don't know enough to understand how difficult these things can be to replicate but it would be awesome, on a number of fronts, if someone were to make that break-though.

 

From a preservation standpoint I like the idea of having some kind of FPGA implementation of all of the chip games because these things do have a lifespan (although admittedly who knows what that will be).

 

I also like the "theory" at least that if someone can manage to FPGA the special chip games maybe that would somehow translate to some epic hacks or homebrew. It makes me wonder what the homebrew/hack scene of today could do with something like Doom FX.

 

I've mentioned this before but it would be nice to be able to overclock FX games without having to mangle a cartridge.

[Jakir]

Personally I hope the if we get any enhancement chips on the jailbreak they start with the Sa-1, SuperFX, and S-DD1 chips (preferably in that order) as none of those are supported on the Sd2Snes currently.

[DarkkOne]

Personally I hope the if we get any enhancement chips on the jailbreak they start with the Sa-1, SuperFX, and S-DD1 chips (preferably in that order) as none of those are supported on the Sd2Snes currently.

Probably going to happen in the order of complexity, if it happens.

 

Also, an important thing to remember: SD2SNES doesn't have to give up some of its FPGA to be an SNES. I don't know how much overhead the FPGA in the Super NT has (I get the impression it's a decent amount, but what that means is in the air) but the SA-1 and SuperFX are decently complex (hence why they're not on the SD2SNES yet, and may not even be feasible) so there's a very real chance that there's not going to be enough FPGA to go around between being both an SNES and an expansion chip. I mean, when designing a console like this, part of saving costs is choosing the FPGA that meets your needs with a minimum of wasted potential. I mean, there's the possibility that this guy has a lot of unknown juice left in it, but there's a very real chance the SD2SNES will still be the best option for expansion chips.

[zeroG]

I think the main expansion chip I would like to see support for is the Super FX chip.

 

SA1 is much more important. It would give us five "important" games (Mario RPG, Marvelous, 2x Kirby, Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius) and even something like the "SMW - 8th Annual Vanilla Level Design Contest: Collaboration Hack". Super FX games haven't aged well - all I'd care about is Yoshi's Island and maybe Starfox 1+2.

 

SPC7110 would also be nice, to use the new English translation of Far East of Eden Zero.

Edited February 19, 2018 by zeroG