FPGA Based Videogame System

[Kismet]

Ok so it looks like Kevtris answered 2 separate questions in that chat:

 

1. Is it possible to use expansion chips in a pass-through manner with other ROMs, to which he answered yes for DSP1-4, no for the other chips.

 

2. Does the Super NT FPGA have the specs required to add SuperFX or SA-1 implementations to the core, to which he answered: There is enough space, but the RAM is not fast enough . So I guess that kills the dream of a universally rom compatible Super NT .

 

Either way the SNT is incredible and I've been enjoying it alot. I wonder why RAM is a bottleneck for SA-1? I was under the impression that it was basically a second SNES CPU, maybe it is clocked faster?

 

Edit: I wonder if this has any bearing on the possibility of at least Super FX coming to the SD2SNES?

 

It's probably the memory bandwidth. Like, the SD2SNES has a XC3S400-PQ208 FPGA, with MT45W8MW16BGX-701WT/IT as the memory chip which is 104MHz PSRAM not the 144Mhz and 166Mhz SDRAM in the Super NT.

[Keatah]

This is confusing. This sounds like somebody asking if using chip enhanced carts' co-processors as pass through for ROMs is possible. People have said that this would be possible with the DSP chips, but not possible with SA-1 or SuperFX because the ROM is located behind the chips. I don't know why this is being mixed up with the memory bandwidth of the Super NT.

 

I'll have to watch the vid (on my todo list) to see exactly what's happening. But, it looks like there isn't enough room/power remaining in the consoleto add another co-processor chip.

 

I see (and so does the game rom) SuperFX and SA-1 as additions to the console, not additions to the cartridge.

 

Those extra enhancement chips are going to need external memory of their own it seems like. And the console doesn't have enough bandwidth - most all of it is used up by the core.

[leods]

There are two different question here.

 

One question is: Can you create a SuperFX chip for the Super NT? The answer is: NO. Not enough memory badwidth.

 

The other question is: Could you plug a special chip cartridge into the system and side load a ROM file, but use the cart's chip with it? The answer was: Possible with DSP1-4, but not with the other chips.

 

That's all.

 

Another interesting thing he said is, the SD2SNES has faster ram, so it could have enough badwidth to do the Super FX. I don't think he talked about enough space.

[cacophony]

 

I will clarify this, because my message seems to be hard to get. I find Firmware 4.0 for the Super NT amazing, and if that was all they would be able to achieve I would still think this is an amazing console. The same day I uploaded the "analogue is lying" video, I uploaded my review for the system, and it's a super positive review of it. I don't think the Super NT needs to have "total accuracy" to be an awesome system, I think it's even unreasonable to expect it to ever achieve that.

 

But analogue has in their website the following: "No emulation. 1080p. Zero lag. Total accuracy."

 

So they have claimed and still claim Total accuracy. Firmware 3.9 isn't totally accurate. Firmware 4.0 isn't totally accurate. Firmware 4.1 is probably the worse firmware available for the Super NT. So their claim isn't true. They should correct this to something like "we're thriving to achieve total accuracy" Or whatever they want to write that is accurate, and not misleading as to what the product is. That's all I said. Nothing else in regards to accuracy.

 

Now the 8bitdo controllers have lag. And at one frame of lag that's quite a lot for a controller. So they should not be advertising these as lag free. Period. Now someone is telling me on youtube, that it's one frame of lag because of Bluetooth, so it's zero lag compared to other bluetooth solutions. But to me that's bullcrap. That being the case they have to write: "no extra lag compared to other bluetooth solutions", and not "zero lag".

 

And that is all. If you disagree that's fine, I won't duscuss this here. But these are my points and nothing else.

 

It's really just marketing. You can't sell a product with lines like "we are trying real hard to achieve a perfect system"

But I think for 99% of people the marketing accurately conveys the reality, especially for those users that understand that it's ok for a company fix minor issues after release, and that it doesn't invalidate any prior promises about what the system would be.

Edited February 22, 2018 by cacophony

[romevi]

Prices for this kind of thing skyrocket even before they are known to be discontinued. Look how much ebay listing for the Nt Mini are going for. (All going for $1000+)

 

Holy freaking monkey...

 

I never really come into possession of such things that tend to skyrocket in price, but now I have. Jeez, louise...

Now I know how it feels for those who score rare NES carts in the wild!

[Keatah]

But once they feel they've exhausted the market and can't justify additional runs, who knows what will happen. I really hope we eventually see something like the Zimba 3000 but I wouldn't be counting on it.

 

I kind of imagined Z3K would be put on indefinite hold once kevtris + analogue association was formed. There's a kind of dynamic at work here and it's been observed countless times elsewhere.

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I will clarify this, because my message seems to be hard to get. I find Firmware 4.0 for the Super NT amazing, and if that was all they would be able to achieve I would still think this is an amazing console. The same day I uploaded the "analogue is lying" video, I uploaded my review for the system, and it's a super positive review of it. I don't think the Super NT needs to have "total accuracy" to be an awesome system, I think it's even unreasonable to expect it to ever achieve that.

 

But analogue has in their website the following: "No emulation. 1080p. Zero lag. Total accuracy."

 

So they have claimed and still claim Total accuracy. Firmware 3.9 isn't totally accurate. Firmware 4.0 isn't totally accurate. Firmware 4.1 is probably the worse firmware available for the Super NT. So their claim isn't true. They should correct this to something like "we're thriving to achieve total accuracy" Or whatever they want to write that is accurate, and not misleading as to what the product is. That's all I said. Nothing else in regards to accuracy.

 

Now the 8bitdo controllers have lag. And at one frame of lag that's quite a lot for a controller. So they should not be advertising these as lag free. Period. Now someone is telling me on youtube, that it's one frame of lag because of Bluetooth, so it's zero lag compared to other bluetooth solutions. But to me that's bullcrap. That being the case they have to write: "no extra lag compared to other bluetooth solutions", and not "zero lag".

 

And that is all. If you disagree that's fine, I won't duscuss this here. But these are my points and nothing else.

 

with all due respect, the console is amazing. analogue needs to advertise the hell out of it but deserve every sale they get. since when is 99% or "almost perfect" a good slogan? it isnt. you gotta sell a product; you dont point out every minute detail or flaw that 98% of users may never notice. that's what independant reviews are for, and the overwhelming majority, sponsored or not, are positive. with updates and bugfixes, it only gets better.

[afx_acid]

I've done a search and can't see it mentioned, does anybody else get an annoying buzzing tone when opening the inventory in Flashback? It happens for me using both NTSC and JP roms, but not the PAL version.

 

This is using an SD2SNES so I'm not sure if it's an issue with the Super NT or the SD2SNES itself. Can anyone else verify the problem? Also, has anyone got an official Flashback cart to test this?

[cacophony]

 

Holy freaking monkey...

 

I never really come into possession of such things that tend to skyrocket in price, but now I have. Jeez, louise...

Now I know how it feels for those who score rare NES carts in the wild!

 

If the extra cores are ported to the Super Nt then I would expect the prices to drop back down to reasonable levels. If the cores aren't ported then I would expect the prices to climb much higher.

Edited February 22, 2018 by cacophony

[romevi]

 

If the extra cores are ported to the Super Nt then I would expect the prices to drop back down to reasonable levels. If the cores aren't ported then I would expect the prices to climb much higher.

 

Ah, so it's the cores that are the major selling point.

 

It is nice to play the other systems on it, even if I can't plug in carts. I have an EverDrive GB and EverDrive GG, but still find it nice to play some of those games on the big screen. MMPR for the Game Gear is one of my favorite fighting games and I'm constantly booting it up for a quick run.

 

Also, just to be sure, the latest (final?) firmware for the jailbreak is 1.1, yes? I believe that's the one I have.

Edited February 22, 2018 by romevi

[zeroG]

 

Ah, so it's the cores that are the major selling point.

 

I think the main selling point still is the very good NES core. The other cores are not on the same quality level and only a bonus in my opinion.

[sofakng]

I really want an NES FPGA that can do 5x vertical.

 

If the Nt Mini was still for sale I would purchase it. If they sold an NES core for the Super Nt, I would also purchase it. Right now I have no options to give them money and they aren't giving me any options.

Edited February 22, 2018 by sofakng

[cacophony]

 

Ah, so it's the cores that are the major selling point.

 

It is nice to play the other systems on it, even if I can't plug in carts. I have an EverDrive GB and EverDrive GG, but still find it nice to play some of those games on the big screen. MMPR for the Game Gear is one of my favorite fighting games and I'm constantly booting it up for a quick run.

 

Also, just to be sure, the latest (final?) firmware for the jailbreak is 1.1, yes? I believe that's the one I have.

 

Well there's lots of different selling points. The analogue + hdmi output, build quality, 5x scaling, kevtris NES implementation, menu options/etc probably it to the $400-$500 price point but i believe it's the other cores that explains any price above that.

[romevi]

 

Well there's lots of different selling points. The analogue + hdmi output, build quality, 5x scaling, kevtris NES implementation, menu options/etc probably it to the $400-$500 price point but i believe it's the other cores that explains any price above that.

 

Sorry, I meant for the aftermarket price.

[leods]

I've done a search and can't see it mentioned, does anybody else get an annoying buzzing tone when opening the inventory in Flashback? It happens for me using both NTSC and JP roms, but not the PAL version.

 

This is using an SD2SNES so I'm not sure if it's an issue with the Super NT or the SD2SNES itself. Can anyone else verify the problem? Also, has anyone got an official Flashback cart to test this?

I have tested this with your exact setup: SD2SNES and Super NT. I also have a buzz sound. I don't know how it's like in the real console though...

 

 

BTW, in my stream, Kevtris appears exactly at 1 hour 43 minutes, so you can spare yourself of listening to my bullshit, and go straight to what's relevant.

Edited February 22, 2018 by leods

[cfillak]

I have tested this with your exact setup: SD2SNES and Super NT. I also have a buzz sound. I don't know how it's like in the real console though...

 

 

BTW, in my stream, Kevtris appears exactly at 1 hour 43 minutes, so you can spare yourself of listening to my bullshit, and go straight to what's relevant.

Maybe try turning cartridge audio off?

[NE146]

2. Does the Super NT FPGA have the specs required to add SuperFX or SA-1 implementations to the core, to which he answered: There is enough space, but the RAM is not fast enough .

 

I called it on the RAM not being fast enough.. but in this case I'm not exactly thrilled about it, but that's ok. Thankfully there's not a huge amount of games we're talking here, and if you isolate it to the ones you might be interested in, probably far less. In my case it's Starfox, SMRPG, Yoshi.. and maybe Stunt Race FX if I was pushing it. So it's get the carts and call it a day.

Edited February 22, 2018 by NE146

[SegaSnatcher]

Hopefully FBX was given the beta firmware to mess with the RGB sliders before official release.

[SegaSnatcher]

I really want an NES FPGA that can do 5x vertical.

 

If the Nt Mini was still for sale I would purchase it. If they sold an NES core for the Super Nt, I would also purchase it. Right now I have no options to give them money and they aren't giving me any options.

I'd rather have a NES FPGA with Kevtris's new Interpolation algorithm. 5x vertical is overrated given it crops off more information than your average CRT would.

 

I own a AVS and I absolutely love it, but if Analogue releases a cheaper NT Mini with some of the enhancements seen on the SNT, I will have to pick one up.

[scott64]

The main reason I want to see Super FX/SA-1 implemented on the SNT or SD2SNES is not so I can play the original games. I own all the ones I want and I've played them to death already. I'd really like to be able to play all the hacks for Yoshi's Island and and Super Mario World (some of which utilize the SA-1). I guess SNES9X will have to suffice for those ones for now.

[romevi]

 

I called it on the RAM not being fast enough.. but in this case I'm not exactly thrilled about it, but that's ok. Thankfully there's not a huge amount of games we're talking here, and if you isolate it to the ones you might be interested in, probably far less. In my case it's Starfox, SMRPG, Yoshi.. and maybe Stunt Race FX if I was pushing it. So it's get the carts and call it a day.

 

This is my thinking as well. While it would've been neat to have internally for any possible ROM hacks, I will go the route of acquiring the actual carts (which we're all about, aren't we?) for the few games that are excluded that I want.

 

And if I really wanted to play those special versions of the games, I always can get the SD2SNES, which I plan on eventually. (Are there even any hacks/patches for special-chip games?)

[cfillak]

 

This is my thinking as well. While it would've been neat to have internally for any possible ROM hacks, I will go the route of acquiring the actual carts (which we're all about, aren't we?) for the few games that are excluded that I want.

 

And if I really wanted to play those special versions of the games, I always can get the SD2SNES, which I plan on eventually. (Are there even any hacks/patches for special-chip games?)

There are translation patches for Japan exclusive games like Marvelous, which is a text heavy RPG that uses the SA-1 chip.

[scott64]

Are there even any hacks/patches for special-chip games?

https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&s=yihacks

[Riptide]

 

I think the main selling point still is the very good NES core. The other cores are not on the same quality level and only a bonus in my opinion.

Yeah the accuracy of that NES core is on point. Don't interpret this the wrong way, overall the total number of bugs we are seeing in the SNES core is small, but it feels like there are more than there was when the Mini was released. Also I have horrible memory.

 

I really want an NES FPGA that can do 5x vertical.

 

If the Nt Mini was still for sale I would purchase it. If they sold an NES core for the Super Nt, I would also purchase it. Right now I have no options to give them money and they aren't giving me any options.

 

I'd rather have a NES FPGA with Kevtris's new Interpolation algorithm. 5x vertical is overrated given it crops off more information than your average CRT would.

 

I own a AVS and I absolutely love it, but if Analogue releases a cheaper NT Mini with some of the enhancements seen on the SNT, I will have to pick one up.

 

Are either of these necessary (5x or the new interpolation) when outputting 720p to a 4k display? My NT Mini is hooked up to my PVM, but I did briefly have it connected to my 4k vizio and from what I recall (again horrible memory disclaimer) I just had to set it to 720p, it filled up the whole screen nicely, and I didn't need to mess with anything else.

[SegaSnatcher]

Yeah the accuracy of that NES core is on point. Don't interpret this the wrong way, overall the total number of bugs we are seeing in the SNES core is small, but it feels like there are more than there was when the Mini was released. Also I have horrible memory.

 

 

 

Are either of these necessary (5x or the new interpolation) when outputting 720p to a 4k display? My NT Mini is hooked up to my PVM, but I did briefly have it connected to my 4k vizio and from what I recall (again horrible memory disclaimer) I just had to set it to 720p, it filled up the whole screen nicely, and I didn't need to mess with anything else.

I'm still rocking a 1080p Plasma, so I don't know. Even when I buy a 4K TV I still plan to run the Super NT in 1080p mode.