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FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

609 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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Awesome. For some reason, I don't see RetroUSB listed though (AVS NES-on-an-FPGA).

 

What about all the mod hardwares? Game Tech's HD NES? UltraHDMI N64? Game Cube Dongle?

I notice they have a list of "Terminated HDMI Adopters"...

You better get your licensing right, or you may get a visit from a bodybuilding humanoid killer HDMI robot...

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Glad to see they sold out of their 2nd batch of stock.

Me too, it's a great machine. I got one instead of the NT Mini (unfindable), and been very happy with it.

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Awesome. For some reason, I don't see RetroUSB listed though (AVS NES-on-an-FPGA).

 

What about all the mod hardwares? Game Tech's HD NES? UltraHDMI N64? Game Cube Dongle?

 

They're probably operating without the license (note that Analogue only signed up two months ago). Also, as they mentioned in one of their emails a few months ago, HD Retrovision is a licensee since September.

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Awesome. For some reason, I don't see RetroUSB listed though (AVS NES-on-an-FPGA).

 

What about all the mod hardwares? Game Tech's HD NES? UltraHDMI N64? Game Cube Dongle?

 

All unlicensed and subject to being sued and having their products be impounded by customs (if imported). Bunnyboy didn't see any particular need to obtain a license.

Edited by Great Hierophant

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Wow! Look what arrived today! They wasted no time at all getting these Ghostly units out to people! Well done!

ghostly 1.jpg

ghostly 2.jpg

ghostly 3.jpg

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Mine came today as well. Awfully fast shipping for a third price. Analogue, take notice lol.

Edited by F34R
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Guess Ill ask... wtf is ghostly? :lol: I was assuming it was just a fancy name for white

 

Ghostly is an indie record label that also has some cool apparel. They just have kind of a fun and quirky style to them. They've partnered with Adult Swim and other current and retro pop culture entities. They release some pretty cool and unusual stuff and it is just cool to see Analogue support a more "artsy" group to branch out a bit more.

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Does Ghostly use a 3rd party shipper? That's why Analogue's costs so much.

 

Analogue's shipping has always been grossly overpriced no matter how you look at it unfortunately, if you are getting a SuperNT right now and are fine with all white, Ghostly is 100% the best option to purchase from

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Analogue x Ghostly appears randomly in the streets of Hong Kong!

 

I wonder if this is the Ghostly marketing machine in action? Kinda makes sense to promote it with concert fliers...

post-43772-0-76842000-1544668771_thumb.jpg

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Yup Analogues shipping is just too much of a hit, well beyond reasonable. It's the reason I waited around and bought one through ebay instead. I would have liked to have rewarded them buying a new unit, but it was a matter of principle not paying like $30-40 whatever it was for the little box. I know what it takes to ship a game console, one of notably more size and box shape too and it's drastically less. I still wish i could have got the SNES style look of one, but I've grown to like the muted all black setup.

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I wonder if this is the Ghostly marketing machine in action?

 

The website URL on the poster is Analogue's so I'd assume that this is the Analogue marketing machine?

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Yup Analogues shipping is just too much of a hit, well beyond reasonable. It's the reason I waited around and bought one through ebay instead. I would have liked to have rewarded them buying a new unit, but it was a matter of principle not paying like $30-40 whatever it was for the little box. I know what it takes to ship a game console, one of notably more size and box shape too and it's drastically less. I still wish i could have got the SNES style look of one, but I've grown to like the muted all black setup.

 

Unfortunately, what it costs you as an individual to package and ship a single game console has little to no bearing on what it costs a small company like Analogue to hire another company to package and ship thousands of consoles with both domestic and international destinations.

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Unfortunately, what it costs you as an individual to package and ship a single game console has little to no bearing on what it costs a small company like Analogue to hire another company to package and ship thousands of consoles with both domestic and international destinations.

 

Agreed. And even though, for whatever their reasoning, Analogue has chosen to use UPS for their shipping solution, which is almost double what a USPS Priority Mail package costs, I have to think about the value I get out of those consoles. I have used to Nt Mini almost every single day since I got it, and I also get a lot of mileage out of the Super Nt. That $23 I spent on shipping, even while more expensive that other options, was still MONEY WELL SPENT! :thumbsup:

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Make sense. :)

 

Got a feature request in general for the SNt for a future release. I would be nice if there was a way to hide the Turrican games.

Since they are played like once every 200 boots, it would be nice to not have them plotting down the main menu.

 

Sure, many Turrican fans would like them as is, but a show/hide feature somewhere in the settings menu will do it.

Dont know annoying this is for others, but... for me it is. :)

I can't really get into the Turrican games (gets ass handed to self very early on) but I don't mind their inclusion and am happy for the fans who get enjoyment out of it. I feel the same about Megaman and Contra as well. I am more of a classic Shmup fan (from Galaga to Blazing Lazers), and generally prefer run-and-jump platforming style (ie Mario, Sonic) over run-and-gun.

 

Having a free game on the boot menu that you aren't interested in playing doesn't make owning the console any less fun, so I cannot see why anyone would argue for it's omission.

 

I hope we get a free game on the Mega SG but not going to hold my breath.

 

nope, it's the same. It's just firmware x.x or greater.

So the alt Ghostly boot menu is technically included on recent firmwares, just locked out unless you bought the Ghostly version? Gotcha.

 

Me too, it's a great machine. I got one instead of the NT Mini (unfindable), and been very happy with it.

Yes, and the Super NT is more a spiritual successor to the AVS based upon price point and features, than the NT Mini. I think it's plausible the AVS is why Analogue hasn't released a competing price reduced NT yet. Based on social media posts and forums I have read, many people have bought the AVS and Super NT.

 

Wow! Look what arrived today! They wasted no time at all getting these Ghostly units out to people! Well done!

I gotta admit, not a fan of solid white consoles, but that would look nice sitting next to the white Mega SG. :thumbsup:

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I notice they have a list of "Terminated HDMI Adopters"...

You better get your licensing right, or you may get a visit from a bodybuilding humanoid killer HDMI robot...

All unlicensed and subject to being sued and having their products be impounded by customs (if imported). Bunnyboy didn't see any particular need to obtain a license.

I thought the license is only necessary if you feature the logo on your product. Just like not all USB devices have the embossed USB logos on them if they aren't certified.

 

It is plausible whatever corporation produced the encoder chip they used could have been licensed by HDMI? HDMI ports are 50 cents. And there are other ways around it. DVI port and bundled adapter for instance. I believe DVI adapters have all the necessary pins as they are straight connected, so you could technically pass audio through the HDMI port even if not supported by DVI standard.

 

CLARIFICATION: DEFINITION OF HDMI® LICENSED PRODUCTS

HDMI Licensing Administrator, Inc., the agent responsible for licensing the HDMI® Specification, is providing the following clarification regarding the qualifications for HDMI® Licensed Products.

 

An HDMI product that consists entirely of licensed components does not necessarily mean the final product is a licensed product. Every end-user product, such as a Digital TV or tablet, must itself be a duly licensed product even though it may contain one or more duly licensed components.

 

The following is required for an HDMI product to be licensed and authorized to bear the HDMI trademarks.

The manufacturer of the finished end-user product MUST be a licensed HDMI Adopter, and

The finished end-user product MUST satisfy all requirements as defined in the Adopter Agreement including but not limited to passing compliance testing either at an HDMI ATC or through self-testing.

If you have questions please contact Will Bush at [email protected] or office phone number (408)-861-4886.

 

HDMI, the HDMI logo, and High-Definition Multimedia Interface are trademarks or registered trademarks of HDMI Licensing Administrator, Inc. in the United States and/or other countries.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/adopter_registration.aspx

So it appears the hdmi licensing program is like the usb licensing, in that you have to apply for a license to use the hdmi branding on the port. If you release an unlicensed device containing an hdmi port, but contains no marks on the product indicating it is hdmi licensed or certified, I think you are okay.

 

Just like the "humping dog" usb thumb drives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P76yiSP6Rg

that do not contain a certified usb mark of any kind, it seems safe to market and sell. You don't have to be a licensed adopter to buy a 50c hdmi port from a part supplier and include it in your product. You just can't use the logo or mark on your product.

 

More evidence. Previous hdmi standards are available to the public and can be used without royalty:

While earlier versions of HDMI specs are available to the public for download, only Adopters have access to the latest standards (HDMI 1.4/1.4a/2). Additionally, here is why you should consider becoming an Adopter:

https://www.semiconductorstore.com/blog/2014/licensing-costs-HDMI/654/

Presumably this applies to earlier, low speed hdmi standards (720p/1080i only). That would explain why a lot of hdmi cloned gaming devices are limited to 720p output. This includes stuff like RetroUSB AVS as well as console-on-a-chip clones with built in upscalars and emulator boxes, none of which support 1080p.

 

That said, advertising your product as "hdmi-compatible" might be legal gray area. I am no lawyer though so don't take anything I say as legal advice.

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Unfortunately, what it costs you as an individual to package and ship a single game console has little to no bearing on what it costs a small company like Analogue to hire another company to package and ship thousands of consoles with both domestic and international destinations.

Agreed. And even though, for whatever their reasoning, Analogue has chosen to use UPS for their shipping solution, which is almost double what a USPS Priority Mail package costs, I have to think about the value I get out of those consoles. I have used to Nt Mini almost every single day since I got it, and I also get a lot of mileage out of the Super Nt. That $23 I spent on shipping, even while more expensive that other options, was still MONEY WELL SPENT! :thumbsup:

RetroUSB launched the AVS without excessive shipping charges. You should see the post where he filled his living room with AVS shipments:

https://m.facebook.com/retroUSB/photos/a.1027304100682326/1201311603281574/?type=3&source=54

 

I also never understand why small companies insist on UPS/Fedex when USPS is both cheaper and faster in most cases. Mega corporations like Amazon get volume discounts (each warehouse facility has a dedicated UPS hub) but not the small frys.

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Unfortunately, what it costs you as an individual to package and ship a single game console has little to no bearing on what it costs a small company like Analogue to hire another company to package and ship thousands of consoles with both domestic and international destinations.

 

 

Agreed. And even though, for whatever their reasoning, Analogue has chosen to use UPS for their shipping solution, which is almost double what a USPS Priority Mail package costs, I have to think about the value I get out of those consoles. I have used to Nt Mini almost every single day since I got it, and I also get a lot of mileage out of the Super Nt. That $23 I spent on shipping, even while more expensive that other options, was still MONEY WELL SPENT! :thumbsup:

Look I understand that it is a different beast, but the point for comparison was the grossly different value is beyond reasonable. I get they're a business, but to make the decision to only use the incompetent over charging UPS option was a real bonehead move. I have to wonder what the rational reason was not to bother having a USPS option for parcel post at the least as the USPS tends to give businesses a better price for shipping, and even if they didn't it's more than 1/2 off what UPS charges. UPS would have been fine as an international shipper as they do tend to do better at that tier than the USPS can do from what I've noticed, but domestic that was just a really really bad call on their part. Also at least for me here, a consideration some may have, UPS are highly abusive a-holes with boxes and it's an expensive toy here I didn't want to leave with those people. Most stuff they drop here gets banged up or a hole punched into the box to the point I won't even ship with them anymore. I question why they're worse here than elsewhere, especially since they are home based and run out of this city you'd think they'd be just a bit more careful.

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I thought the license is only necessary if you feature the logo on your product. Just like not all USB devices have the embossed USB logos on them if they aren't certified.

 

It is plausible whatever corporation produced the encoder chip they used could have been licensed by HDMI? HDMI ports are 50 cents. And there are other ways around it. DVI port and bundled adapter for instance. I believe DVI adapters have all the necessary pins as they are straight connected, so you could technically pass audio through the HDMI port even if not supported by DVI standard.

 

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/adopter_registration.aspx

So it appears the hdmi licensing program is like the usb licensing, in that you have to apply for a license to use the hdmi branding on the port. If you release an unlicensed device containing an hdmi port, but contains no marks on the product indicating it is hdmi licensed or certified, I think you are okay.

 

Just like the "humping dog" usb thumb drives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P76yiSP6Rg

that do not contain a certified usb mark of any kind, it seems safe to market and sell. You don't have to be a licensed adopter to buy a 50c hdmi port from a part supplier and include it in your product. You just can't use the logo or mark on your product.

 

More evidence. Previous hdmi standards are available to the public and can be used without royalty:

https://www.semiconductorstore.com/blog/2014/licensing-costs-HDMI/654/

Presumably this applies to earlier, low speed hdmi standards (720p/1080i only). That would explain why a lot of hdmi cloned gaming devices are limited to 720p output. This includes stuff like RetroUSB AVS as well as console-on-a-chip clones with built in upscalars and emulator boxes, none of which support 1080p.

 

That said, advertising your product as "hdmi-compatible" might be legal gray area. I am no lawyer though so don't take anything I say as legal advice.

 

1080p/60 was supported in HDMI v1.0, that is not the reason why hobbyists and companies selling low-end products decline to use it. Nintendo and Sony's Classic consoles are limited to 720p and they are HDMI 2.0 adopters. They do it because it is "good enough" and much cheaper to implement. The AVS generates 720p directly via its FPGA, but the Analogue consoles generate it by a separate HDMI encoder chip which can handle 1080p output.

 

The logo is trademarked and you must pay for a license to use it. The earlier standards may be open to the public to download, but that does not place them in the public domain, it just doesn't make them a trade secret. The later standards, which requires a license with adopter access to them, are protected by trade secrets. But what you really need to be concerned with is the HDMI patent pool. If there are still active patents that govern your use of HDMI such as the connector and the protocol used, then you could still run afoul of the licensing.

 

Using the "HDMI-compatible" language is probably within Descriptive Fair Use, so long as you use an ordinary font size and typeface.

 

You could get around the patent issue by using a DVI connector on your device, that does rather force you to include a DVI to HDMI cable or adapter in the box. But does your average consumer want to deal with a large, klunky and nearly obsolete connector? Then you get into tricky issues about running audio through DVI, which is OK if you are only concerned with the physical shape of the connector but DVI-only devices tend not to like the audio and the extra stuff HDMI brings to to the data stream.

Edited by Great Hierophant

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1080p/60 was supported in HDMI v1.0, that is not the reason why hobbyists and companies selling low-end products decline to use it. Nintendo and Sony's Classic consoles are limited to 720p and they are HDMI 2.0 adopters. They do it because it is "good enough" and much cheaper to implement. The AVS generates 720p directly via its FPGA, but the Analogue consoles generate it by a separate HDMI encoder chip which can handle 1080p output.

 

The logo is trademarked and you must pay for a license to use it. The earlier standards may be open to the public to download, but that does not place them in the public domain, it just doesn't make them a trade secret. The later standards, which requires a license with adopter access to them, are protected by trade secrets. But what you really need to be concerned with is the HDMI patent pool. If there are still active patents that govern your use of HDMI such as the connector and the protocol used, then you could still run afoul of the licensing.

 

Using the "HDMI-compatible" language is probably within Descriptive Fair Use, so long as you use an ordinary font size and typeface.

 

You could get around the patent issue by using a DVI connector on your device, that does rather force you to include a DVI to HDMI cable or adapter in the box. But does your average consumer want to deal with a large, klunky and nearly obsolete connector? Then you get into tricky issues about running audio through DVI, which is OK if you are only concerned with the physical shape of the connector but DVI-only devices tend not to like the audio and the extra stuff HDMI brings to to the data stream.

Funny you mention, I read an article where Display Port to HDMI cables were banned by the foundation. Does this also retroactively apply to DVI/HDMI cables? I've had a few kicking around for years, and use them to connect my PC up to old monitor.

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You could get around the patent issue by using a DVI connector on your device, that does rather force you to include a DVI to HDMI cable or adapter in the box. But does your average consumer want to deal with a large, klunky and nearly obsolete connector? Then you get into tricky issues about running audio through DVI, which is OK if you are only concerned with the physical shape of the connector but DVI-only devices tend not to like the audio and the extra stuff HDMI brings to to the data stream.

 

Also I think Bob discovered recently that those DVI to HDMI dongles can cause some unexpected problems. I would think DisplayPort would be a better option if you were trying to avoid HDMI for whatever reason.

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RetroUSB launched the AVS without excessive shipping charges. You should see the post where he filled his living room with AVS shipments:

https://m.facebook.com/retroUSB/photos/a.1027304100682326/1201311603281574/?type=3&source=54

 

I also never understand why small companies insist on UPS/Fedex when USPS is both cheaper and faster in most cases. Mega corporations like Amazon get volume discounts (each warehouse facility has a dedicated UPS hub) but not the small frys.

 

It's true that USPS is much cheaper, especially if you do the shipping yourself. And Brian also saved on packaging materials by using the free USPS boxes. But this approach had a number of different disadvantages, for both Brian and customers:

 

* It took weeks to get the orders out, despite sending an order of magnitude fewer units then say the Super Nt launch (partly guessing here based on Brian's photo vs Analogue order numbers). If Analogue had taken this approach it might of taken months to get the orders out.

* This occupied all of Brian's time for those weeks, which is going to impact the ability to get other stuff done

* The limited size options for the free USPS boxes meant that the obvious box choice had zero padding on the sides. The actual AVS box was pretty well padded so maybe this doesn't really matter, but having seen how packages get treated I really value padding on all four sides.

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