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kevtris

FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

641 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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5 minutes ago, dj_convoy said:

Both things can be good (if different). I'm just getting sick of the BUT ACTUALLY stuff, especially in the last few pages. I've actually put two people on block, which I haven't done here in ages. 

Agreed, both serve their purposes, but I think MiSter crew should maybe cool it down a bit, because people don't want stuff shoved down their throat, especially in a thread that has nothing to do with that project.

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This thread was originally about the vision of a Zimba3000 FPGA device that could run multiple systems.

 

That is not the SNT or MSG, by design. And the original NT mini is no longer available. So I think it is relevant to bring up an alternative, especially when there seems to be misinformation and animosity about said item (for some reason). This isn't the console wars.

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This thread was originally about the vision of a Zimba3000 FPGA device that could run multiple systems.
 
That is not the SNT or MSG, by design. And the original NT mini is no longer available. So I think it is relevant to bring up an alternative, especially when there seems to be misinformation and animosity about said item (for some reason). This isn't the console wars.
These are steps toward that vision.

Nt Mini has not been discontinued last I checked. Yes, it's been unavailable since the Super My launched but so was Hi-Def NES for most of that time... and it's back in stock right now.

Yes, MiSTer is cool and somewhat relevant but I'd still be self-conscious about promoting it as an alternative in Kev's own thread. I'm all for talking about it here... as a companion device. ;)

I'm waiting on things to settle for Furrtek's Neo Geo support on MiSTer before I buy in but I'm still getting his NGCD ODE if he ever finishes it. MiSTer isn't likely to support original carts, discs, ROM chips, accessories, or translation-free controllers for the majority of the platforms it supports so there will typically be distinct advantages for FPGA consoles done another way.

For example, regardless of how low you get the input latency for USB, you still have to translate most controllers to USB and that isn't always easy/possible to do in a way that preserves low latency and/or accessory compatibility. If I plug a Menacer receiver into a Mega Sg with the upcoming analog adapter and play on the right display I can expect it to work. Same for the Zero Tolerance link cable, the Sega Activator, and the various multitaps. It's probably wishful thinking to expect MiSTer to work with the Super Scope receiver, SNES mouse, NTT Datapad, Super Game Boy controller, ASCII Turbofile, NES Satellite, Konami Justifier, and so on, but here's hoping.

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44 minutes ago, CZroe said:

These are steps toward that vision.

Nt Mini has not been discontinued last I checked. Yes, it's been unavailable since the Super My launched but so was Hi-Def NES for most of that time... and it's back in stock right now.

Yes, MiSTer is cool and somewhat relevant but I'd still be self-conscious about promoting it as an alternative in Kev's own thread. I'm all for talking about it here... as a companion device. ;)
 

Not to mention there have been MiSTer supports posting about how they would like Analogue to "Get what they deserve."   That kind of talk is totally inappropriate in this thread considering Kev is employed by them.   

I'm not saying we should pretend MiSTer doesn't exist, but as you said people need to be more conscious and show some common courtesy towards Kevtris and his thread. 

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Yeah honestly, I'd rather the mister talk get its own thread instead of being in here. 

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@kevtris: I only brought up the MiSTer stuff to compare the state of the cores on the MegaSG and MiSTer, in a MegaSG context. Isnt that ok?

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@kevtris: I only brought up the MiSTer stuff to compare the state of the cores on the MegaSG and MiSTer, in a MegaSG context. Isnt that ok?


LOL! No, that wasn't all you did. You cherry-picked problems with an officially unsupported game that was only in the jailbreak bug reports, then made entitled demands and cluelessly blamed the "business behind it" ...even though said business doesn't support jailbreaking and ROMs and has nothing to do with the bug report you referred to.

This is sadly true. I have both the Analogue consoles (SNT and MegaSG) and the [alternative], and the opensource implementations of the MegaDrive/Master System and SNES are WAY better by now, in every aspect. Even basic Master System games fail to function properly on the MSG (I have to use the [alternative] to play Bubble Bobble!!), and there is zero feedback from Analogue regarding this.
In the opensource world, these issues reported would have been fixed in a matter of days or hours, and without a business behind it.


Oh, but you weren't done. You presented your subjective and obviously slanted opinion about the alternative as fact by staying that the alternative Super NES and Genesis cores are "far better" than Kevin/Analogue's. Your stated reasons almost exclusively refer to functions related to the free/unofficial jailbreak and then you broadly proclaim that the open source implementations are "better" while admitting your bias.

@SegaSnatcher:
 
Current SNES and Genesis cores for [alternative] are far better than those in the MegaSG. Current as in "the versions available today", not some months ago.
-[alternative] SNES core has support for expansion chips (FX, SA-1, DSP, etc). PPU, CPU and SPU implementations are mostly flawless by now.
-[alternative] Genesis support sounds as good as the INCREDIBLY GOOD MegaSG implmentation nowadays. No difference, nothing. Sounds the same (with less options, thats true). It was not true months ago: now its just as perfect as the MegaSG implementation. And we have SVP support, too!
-Master System core for [alternative] has great FM audio. Again, current versions, not versions from months ago. It plays RASTAN fine with FM audio. And Bubble Bobble works perfectly on the [alternative], too. No stalls/pauses/hangs. (Its not ordinay Master System game, its Bubble Bobble....)
Thing is, I had to pay A LOT for Analogue machines (customs, DHL or whatever they used for delivery...). I love their design. And I hope their firmware would be as good or better than the opensource implementations. But I can not deceive myself anymore: the opensource implementations are better as things are. Being an opensource lover, anyway, I am happy that things came to this, but... I wish Analogue could finish what they so nicely started.


You openly hoped that "opensource alternatives" would "take over" while implying that anything commercial/closed source deserves to be displaced/pushed out. You ended that lost when you doubled-down on your previous assertion that Analogue and Kevin were leaving it buggy and unfinished just because you didn't get all the jailbreak piracy stuff you wanted (how entitled).

This is why I hope opensource alternatives will take over, and these commercial closed-source alternatives get what they deserve. I had high hopes for the Analogue products, but I am VERY disapointed with them leaving the products buggy and unfinished in the end.


Next, you displayed your cognitive dissonance regarding hate directed toward Analogue, not Kevtris, where you act like it's OK to hate on the Analogue side just because companies themselves are faceless. LOL! Way to go, Tim Robbins from Team America World Police. ...Kevin and Chris sitting in their little corporation building and acting all... all corporation-y. ...and then- then they make money. Mmm. ;)

I dont wish anything bad to happen to Kevtris. This thread is about his own personal project that later became a series of Analogue products.
But when I think about the imperfect state these products are left in, I wish opensource projects do what closed source does not.
I am sure Kevtris would prefer to dedicate some of his time to polish the MSG and SNT cores, but I can imagine its not his decision but Analogues decision. Kevtris is a guy I admire. Analoge is a company I hate.


Oh, but you say you only brought up an alternative "to compare the state of the cores." No, you brought it up to support your misdirected hate that you even admitted to at one point. It's just your typical anti-capitalism, cluelessly-entitled, rant that you justify by not getting an unsupported jailbreak ROM to work perfectly to your satisfaction.

You aren't saving face with this post. If that was your goal it would have been better to apologize and admit that perhaps an issue with the ROM on jailbreak firmware or special chip features that only matter for playing ROM files wasn't the best thing to base your criticisms of Analogue on when they don't (and can't) officially support such a thing.
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@CZroe Wow! You got me there, man. Sorry, yes, I talked too much.

But thing is MiSTer can play Bubble Bobble and Rastan FM fine, and MegaSG can not (Bubble Bobble seems to be failing on some cart versions too, and Rastan FM is failing on cart, too). Thats all I should have said. Sorry, really.

Edited by vanfanel
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These systems were originally hyped as multi cores and capable of playing ROMs, like the Mini NT.  So it shouldn't be a surprise some people ask and discuss about those features.

 

The Analogues are best in class for cartridge-based gameplay and I'm glad they exist. But let's stop pretending it's something else. I think it's fair to say that if you want to play ROMs, then these consoles need to be coupled with a SD2SNES/MegaSD.

Edited by Newsdee

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1 minute ago, Newsdee said:

These systems were originally hyped as multi cores and capable of playing ROMs, like the Mini NT.  So it shouldn't be a surprise some people ask and discuss about those features.

 

The Analogues are best in class for cartridge-based gameplay and I'm glad they exist. But let's stop pretending it's something else. I think it's fair to say that if you want to play ROMs, then these consoles need to be coupled with a SD2SNES/MegaSD.

Thats one big advantage Mega SG still has over the MisTer core, Sega CD support either via real hardware or the Mega SD cart.  Doesn't seem like anyone is working on a Sega CD core for MiSTer yet, I'm sure they will eventually, but something like that will take awhile to complete as Sega CD is basically another console.

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Wishlist:

SNt update.

SNt NES Cart adapter.

SNt+MSg Analoge adapter.

Intv core for NtM.

Cart adapters for NtM.

Turbo Nc

 

🤣

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Just now, atmn said:

Wishlist:

SNt update.

SNt NES Cart adapter.

SNt+MSg Analoge adapter.

Intv core for NtM.

Cart adapters for NtM.

Turbo Nc

 

🤣

1. SNT Update is currently being worked on.  

2. I honestly think they might make a cheaper NT Mini before offering NES adapters for SNT. 

3. Yeah no updates on this, but I guess its still scheduled for a 2019 release. 

4. Some form of Cart adapters might come if they are releasing a new cheaper NT Mini.  I'm hoping for GB/GBC adapter. 

5. That was my second guess for Analogue's next console and I'd definitely be on board. 

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1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Thats one big advantage Mega SG still has over the MisTer core

Yes, absolutely. Cart support will also be exclusive as nobody is interested in that for other FPGA systems (except the AVS).

 

A Turbo NC would complete the picture, but it would be awesome if they go for Neogeo and allow 3rd party cores. I expect that could command a higher price and so make it feasible to use a bigger FPGA (in other words, let the community bring their own.cores as well).

Edited by Newsdee

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I think the problem with an Analogue Turbo is that there really needs to be some kind of easy CD solution right away (and I don't mean buying an ancient TG 16 CD add on or a 300.00 plus TerraOnion thingie); so much of the good stuff in the library is on CD. SEGA CD is one thing, altho' there are more decent games than some people would think, it's still not exactly essential, whereas I would think CD support for a Turbo would be completely essential. 

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52 minutes ago, dj_convoy said:

I think the problem with an Analogue Turbo is that there really needs to be some kind of easy CD solution right away (and I don't mean buying an ancient TG 16 CD add on or a 300.00 plus TerraOnion thingie); so much of the good stuff in the library is on CD. SEGA CD is one thing, altho' there are more decent games than some people would think, it's still not exactly essential, whereas I would think CD support for a Turbo would be completely essential. 

I think this would be a great introduction to a Analogue console with built in CD Drive.  The great thing is CD Bios are on those Hu-Cards so they could officially support CD playback like an original system would.  Also, PC CD literally just adds more ram and Redbook audio so there is no real technical hurdle compared to Sega CD.

Also, I think supporting real PC/TG-CD units would be a problem considering they block the video ports on the back and put out composite video.  Analogue/Kevtris would likely have to put the HDMI out on the side to support the original units, but I don't see that happening.  Just making it in all-in-one would make the most sense.  There are far too many great PC-CD games to ignore.

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It will be interesting to see the next move by Analogue.

 

PCE CD is infamous for failing hardware and prices of working units keep going up. A modern version would make collecting for it much more accessible, so will likely sell pretty well.

 

I can also see a consolized GBA/GBC/GB being popular given how many units were sold between the three devices, even if it is not portable. Bonus points if they (/Kevtris) manage to run two together for link play on the same TV.

 

Neogeo would probably allow charging a higher price, so maybe better margins, but they may sell less units.

Edited by Newsdee

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36 minutes ago, Newsdee said:

I can also see a consolized GBA/GBC/GB being popular given how many units were sold between the three devices, even if it is not portable. Bonus points if they (/Kevtris) manage to run two together for link play on the same TV.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants this. There are tons of GB/GBC/GBA carts out there. And also tons of Super-NES controllers.  :D 

 

Link play on the same TV would be a little overkill, but a link cable port on a consolized GBA is a definite no-brainer, if only to be able to connect an actual GBA for games with link cable features. This port is proprietary, I believe, so I'm not sure how hard it would be to source the connector components. But if the link cable port ended up being discarded from the console's design, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

 

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1 hour ago, Pixelboy said:

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants this. There are tons of GB/GBC/GBA carts out there. And also tons of Super-NES controllers.  :D 

 

Link play on the same TV would be a little overkill, but a link cable port on a consolized GBA is a definite no-brainer, if only to be able to connect an actual GBA for games with link cable features. This port is proprietary, I believe, so I'm not sure how hard it would be to source the connector components. But if the link cable port ended up being discarded from the console's design, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

 

I almost feel the GBA Consolizer takes care of those needs, but not saying I would be against an Analogue option.

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1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I almost feel the GBA Consolizer takes care of those needs, but not saying I would be against an Analogue option.

Yeah, but it's expensive and a huge pain to instsll. An Analogue option would be very interesting.

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1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I almost feel the GBA Consolizer takes care of those needs, but not saying I would be against an Analogue option.

GBA Consolizer costs over $300 for a pre-modded console.  If Analogue can hit a $200 price tag, then they will have a winner, especially if it supports split screen for multiplayer.

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12 hours ago, Newsdee said:

These systems were originally hyped as multi cores and capable of playing ROMs, like the Mini NT.

 

Hyped by who? 

 

The megasg always said it would handle SMS as well as Genesis (and maybe sg-1000 too?), but really other than that I don't recall anyone hyping multiple cores. If anything I'd say many people especially here did the exact opposite, constantly having to remind people that the jb firmware is completely extra, unsupported at least officially, and they ought to show more gratitude for it.

 

After the Super NT release specifically there were people waiting on or demanding cores from the NT mini get ported over and a number of people here had to point out that nobody ever said that was going to happen, and the machine only ever promised to play SNES cartridges officially.

 

5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I almost feel the GBA Consolizer takes care of those needs, but not saying I would be against an Analogue option. 

 

I would agree on both points.  GBA Consolizer seems like it would address what most people would want from a big screen GB(C/A) solution, at least for playing actual carts.   On the other hand i do like the number of configurable options the analogue consoles ship with in regards to audio/video settings, so I'd still buy one of those if it came out just to have both.  I'd say with the consolizer out there though, they don't have much market incentive to create one.

 

I do agree that the GBA Consolizer is way overpriced for the fully assembled, and maybe even slightly overpriced for the kit + case.  But kit + case + 40/32 adapter + shipping still comes to slightly less than an analogue console + shipping.  And while there is also install time it basically consists of soldering 15 wires and using a screw driver, so fairly easy.

 

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I was under the impression that GBA wouldn't be getting an FPGA core. I would guess just having a 32 bit CPU makes it more difficult. But I'm sure while I'm saying this there are probably 12 different versions already on floppy disks in random places all over the world. 

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18 minutes ago, Ashenshards said:

I was under the impression that GBA wouldn't be getting an FPGA core. I would guess just having a 32 bit CPU makes it more difficult. But I'm sure while I'm saying this there are probably 12 different versions already on floppy disks in random places all over the world. 

 

Well, it's a big challenge for sure. A GBA core requires an advanced FPGA hardware setup with lots of RAM and stuff, so it all comes down to production costs. There's also the question of whether the GBA uses a proprietary BIOS, which could be a real problem. But given Kev's experience with replicating consoles and handhelds in FPGA form, I see nothing here that's actually beyond his expertise.

 

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At this point, I'd actually prefer to see an FPGA handheld that plays various carts and adds features like built-in DVR, wireless video streaming, wireless single-cartridge multiplayer (or the ability to dump yourself and use the same cart between players), etc.

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