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FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

633 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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1 hour ago, Drunk_Caterpillar said:

Fortunately you can test this right now if you own a Super Nt or Mega Sg. I do, and I can assure you that interpolation is far less noticeable than incorrect geometry, especially when you're familiar with the games. Maybe that not the case for everyone, but doing a side by side comparison with the excellent interpolation in the SNt and MSg it really is barely noticeable. 

Unfortunately I do not, but I'm willing to take your word for it.

 

I CAN tell you though, after watching the MLiG video on the geometry of the NTM v1, the geometry doesn't bother me at all from that perspective, it looks barely noticeable in fact.

 

But again, on this issue I will concede, if Kevtris can add it in as a feature, I hope he does for those of you who will use it. If he does, I promise I'll turn it on as well and test it out, maybe I'll like it better too!?

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7 minutes ago, XtraSmiley said:

Agreed, preorders can run out if the product has a limited amount of stock/materials. I however believe Analogue will sell as many as possible and make enough to meet demand. Believing the NTM v2 is "limited" is the point where I think Analogue has people fooled.

Of course. It would make sense for them to basically do an open preorder for a set amount of time, which basically means that every one of these things is essentially built to order but not actually say that, which will cause everyone to freak out and think they won't be able to get one if they don't buy it immediately. If they actually went and said "open preorders for 2 weeks" people will put it off and forget, etc., which means less money for Analogue. In fact, I'm starting to think that's what they are actually doing, but with no proof, there is no way to know.

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43 minutes ago, eebuckeye said:

Agreed.. except if Analogue comes out with a $200 NT mini in a year then that would be pretty bad.

Probably bad for a lot of resellers on eBay. I'm pretty sure it should be no problem for those who got the 500USD for the extra features if Analogue decides to sell a cheaper one.

Edited by Intense.Mark
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Just now, Intense.Mark said:

Probably bad for a lot of resellers on eBay.

I think I'd actually like to see a $200 system happen just for this reason.

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11 hours ago, XtraSmiley said:

Uh, this is 100% not true. In fact, the BEST way to view proper CRT aspect ratio on a modern display is without interpolation, with your image scaled at an integer level, so that you don't need interpolation.

 

Interpolation is a half-ass fix for a minor problem. You can integer scale your picture and leave a small amount of black at the top and bottom, but have a perfect image that also scrolls perfectly.

 

Needing interpolation on the NT mini seems really overblown.

Posting to say I was wrong on this point and wanted to edit the post, but what I should have said was:

 

IMO the BEST way to view proper CRT aspect ratio on a modern display is without interpolation, with your image scaled at an integer level, so that you don't need interpolation. This will avoid blurriness and other tricks of interpolation but the aspect ration won't be 100% the exact same as a CRT, but pretty close!

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19 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Adaptors or not, the Super Nt doesn't have the NES/FC core. I don't know if there is room on the FPGA for it, but it should hypothetically be possible. Maybe.

I'm one of those who voted to re-release the NT mini in change.org. I love the features of the Super NT (filters, 1080p resolution, use of real carts etc) and I would like to get it with the NES/famicom platform and pre-ordered the NOIR. I'm not complaining about the price either but a lot of people here wanted a 200USD equivalent price as well.

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5 minutes ago, Intense.Mark said:

Probably bad for a lot of resellers on eBay. I'm pretty sure it should be no problem for those who got the 500USD for the extra features if Analogue decides to sell a cheaper one.

I'd like to see a $200 product because there are a lot of people who can't really afford $500 and it opens the system up for more people to experience. I think people who bought a $500 toy to make some sort of profit on it 3 years later are taking a big risk for little pay off.

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1 minute ago, XtraSmiley said:

I'd like to see a $200 product because there are a lot of people who can't really afford $500 and it opens the system up for more people to experience. I think people who bought a $500 toy to make some sort of profit on it 3 years later are taking a big risk for little pay off.

I have no problem with this. I would probably buy the cheaper one for the living room and the other one for the game room.

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6 minutes ago, XtraSmiley said:

Posting to say I was wrong on this point and wanted to edit the post, but what I should have said was:

 

IMO the BEST way to view proper CRT aspect ratio on a modern display is without interpolation, with your image scaled at an integer level, so that you don't need interpolation. This will avoid blurriness and other tricks of interpolation but the aspect ration won't be 100% the exact same as a CRT, but pretty close!

And this I 100% agree with. No interpolation is sharper than interpolation. Unfortunately, uneven pixel sizing kills it unless you use integer scaling. If you have the Castlevania collection on the Switch, try changing the aspect ratio from 4:3 to pixel perfect. The gaps between the bars in your health meter are not evenly spaced in 4:3, which is the correct aspect ratio. Pixel perfect is... well, I'm not sure what aspect ratio it uses, but even though it's wrong, it looks just fine. I'd prefer correct aspect ratio with interpolation, but as that isn't a choice there, I can't use it.

 

If the Nt Mini doesn't get interpolation, I'll probably use a similar setting on it or just plug it into my Trinitron and then I won't have to worry about it at all!

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16 minutes ago, Intense.Mark said:

I'm one of those who voted to re-release the NT mini in change.org. I love the features of the Super NT (filters, 1080p resolution, use of real carts etc) and I would like to get it with the NES/famicom platform and pre-ordered the NOIR. I'm not complaining about the price either but a lot of people here wanted a 200USD equivalent price as well.

As did I, although there is no way in hell that Analogue actually made this new run just because 1000 people signed a petition. I mentioned a few pages ago that I imagine they are having problems with the Pocket and wanted to get some money. People have been bothering them for years to make the Nt Mini again, so if they needed the money, why not? Assuming profit margin on it is good enough to justify it, I mean.

 

Anyway, for their next thing, I don't want to see another Nintendo/Sega thing. I'd want an FPGA SuperGrafx with a CD thing built in. More people need to play the PC Engine because the PC Engine is extremely underappreciated and deserves way more attention than what it gets.

Edited by Steven Pendleton
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32 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

As did I, although there is no way in hell that Analogue actually made this new run just because 1000 people signed a petition. I mentioned a few pages ago that I imagine they are having problems with the Pocket and wanted to get some money. People have been bothering them for years to make the Nt Mini again, so if they needed the money, why not? Assuming profit margin on it is good enough to justify it, I mean.

 

Anyway, for their next thing, I don't want to see another Nintendo/Sega thing. I'd want an FPGA SuperGrafx with a CD thing built in. More people need to play the PC Engine because the PC Engine is extremely underappreciated and deserves way more attention than what it gets.

Yeah a $189 SGX w/ CD would blow away sales of a SGX with the SSD3 which is still $5-700 total...

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1 minute ago, Steven Pendleton said:

And this I 100% agree with. No interpolation is sharper than interpolation. Unfortunately, uneven pixel sizing kills it unless you use integer scaling. If you have the Castlevania collection on the Switch, try changing the aspect ratio from 4:3 to pixel perfect. The gaps between the bars in your health meter are not evenly spaced in 4:3, which is the correct aspect ratio. Pixel perfect is... well, I'm not sure what aspect ratio it uses, but even though it's wrong, it looks just fine. I'd prefer correct aspect ratio with interpolation, but as that isn't a choice there, I can't use it.

 

If the Nt Mini doesn't get interpolation, I'll probably use a similar setting on it or just plug it into my Trinitron and then I won't have to worry about it at all!

It's really hard to comment on the argument on interpolation but if the NOIR has it then it's great. I say that because each of us grew up with different analog CRTs. Each of us think that the CRT we own back then is 100% accurate. The problem with the original NT mini is with the 1080p resolution on HDMI. There is a 4.5x option. If you choose this option, there's uneven pixel size which causes shimmering on the vertical axis. To prevent shimmering and to be close with the 4:3 aspect ratio, MILG's NT mini video recommends a height of 5x and width of 6x. As also mentioned in the same episode it's slightly fatter than their PVM's ratio. If you're one of those people who wanted to use the exact width as what they remember their CRT's with, will be disappointed with the shimmering effect. Interpolation is the best option for those who will choose a non-integer scale height and width.

 

Same argument could be said on the other features like color palette. Different brands display color differently. SMB1's sky on the Sony TVs are bright blue (also mentioned on MILG's episode). I grew up with a Sony Trinitron CRT and I'll be looking for that blue sky when I get the NOIR. It's a good thing that color palette option was included in the original NT mini and I believe the NOIR will retain that feature.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Intense.Mark said:

 

It's really hard to comment on the argument on interpolation but if the NOIR has it then it's great. I say that because each of us grew up with different analog CRTs. Each of us think that the CRT we own back then is 100% accurate. The problem with the original NT mini is with the 1080p resolution on HDMI. There is a 4.5x option. If you choose this option, there's uneven pixel size which causes shimmering on the vertical axis. To prevent shimmering and to be close with the 4:3 aspect ratio, MILG's NT mini video recommends a height of 5x and width of 6x. As also mentioned in the same episode it's slightly fatter than their PVM's ratio. If you're one of those people who wanted to use the exact width as what they remember their CRT's with, will be disappointed with the shimmering effect. Interpolation is the best option for those who will choose a non-integer scale height and width.

 

Same argument could be said on the other features like color palette. Different brands display color differently. SMB1's sky on the Sony TVs are bright blue (also mentioned on MILG's episode). I grew up with a Sony Trinitron CRT and I'll be looking for that blue sky when I get the NOIR. It's a good thing that color palette option was included in the original NT mini and I believe the NOIR will retain that feature.

 

 

As I have never owned an NES or FC, the color palette thing doesn't bother me at all and I have no comment on it. I'll just test them all and use whatever one I like. Maybe kevtris will be kind enough to install a randomizer that gives a different palette every time! That would be cool.

 

If I use 1080 resolution, I'm going to use 4X because I want everything visible and 4.5X isn't a proper integer scale. I don't know what I will do with horizontal axis. I'll figure it out when I actually have the thing in my possession and not think about it too much until then.

16 minutes ago, XtraSmiley said:

Yeah a $189 SGX w/ CD would blow away sales of a SGX with the SSD3 which is still $5-700 total...

I almost bought a SuperGrafx, but then I didn't. I still wanted one, but then I got the MiSTer and played the SuperGrafx games on it. I don't want to buy a real SuperGrafx anymore. FPGA solution with a HuCARD slot and built in CD ROM2 would be excellent, though, so I don't have to bother with the OSSC anymore and my CD ROM2 doesn't really like to work. The guy I bought it from on Amazon said he replaced the gears, but they still stick. It was really great to play Dracula X the 100% legit way, sitting on the fake wood floor with composite video from the IFU and a real disc and Super System Card on my Trinitron, but after I got the SSDS3 I don't miss the CD ROM2 at all. And no, that does not mean I got rid of it!

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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37 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

As did I, although there is no way in hell that Analogue actually made this new run just because 1000 people signed a petition. I mentioned a few pages ago that I imagine they are having problems with the Pocket and wanted to get some money. People have been bothering them for years to make the Nt Mini again, so if they needed the money, why not? Assuming profit margin on it is good enough to justify it, I mean.

 

Anyway, for their next thing, I don't want to see another Nintendo/Sega thing. I'd want an FPGA SuperGrafx with a CD thing built in. More people need to play the PC Engine because the PC Engine is extremely underappreciated and deserves way more attention than what it gets.

I will not argue that they reissued the NT mini because of the petition. It took a year for Analogue to release the cartridge adapters / DAC and both products have problems like the game gear v1.0 adapter issue and DAC not providing signal to some of the Analogue consoles. Now this is just a speculation and are probably refining the Pocket to avoid any technical issues. While doing that, they needed a product out now to get profits and since the NT mini has been in demand for a few years, it's a no brainer. 

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1 minute ago, Intense.Mark said:

I will not argue that they reissued the NT mini because of the petition. It took a year for Analogue to release the cartridge adapters / DAC and both products have problems like the game gear v1.0 adapter issue and DAC not providing signal to some of the Analogue consoles. Now this is just a speculation and are probably refining the Pocket to avoid any technical issues. While doing that, they needed a product out now to get profits and since the NT mini has been in demand for a few years, it's a no brainer. 

I didn't know there are problems with the DAC. I have not bought one yet and may not since I have HD Retrovision cables for my Mega Drive and don't really care about SNES/SFC enough to get the cable for that. If I do, it will only be so I can run the Super 32X on the Mega Sg, which is basically a waste since I can use it on my Mega Drive.

 

I did know about the problems with the Game Gear adaptor (I actually made a thread about it over in the Genesis section), but I didn't order the adaptor set because I can't really justify spending over $70 (with shipping) for adaptors for game carts that I don't own for systems that I don't own.

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1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Anyway, for their next thing, I don't want to see another Nintendo/Sega thing. I'd want an FPGA SuperGrafx with a CD thing built in. More people need to play the PC Engine because the PC Engine is extremely underappreciated and deserves way more attention than what it gets.

PC Engine or Neo Geo MVS FPGA would be great but I hope the CD-ROM is removable. It's always the first thing that would fail. 

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Just now, Intense.Mark said:

PC Engine or Neo Geo MVS FPGA would be great but I hope the CD-ROM is removable. It's always the first thing that would fail. 

With a modern disc drive there should be no problems with it. Hopefully.

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Posting to say I was wrong on this point and wanted to edit the post, but what I should have said was:
 
IMO the BEST way to view proper CRT aspect ratio on a modern display is without interpolation, with your image scaled at an integer level, so that you don't need interpolation. This will avoid blurriness and other tricks of interpolation but the aspect ration won't be 100% the exact same as a CRT, but pretty close!

Then you mean that the best way to view digitally perfect sharp pixels is with integer scaling.

Integer scaling has nothing to do with acheiving proper aspect ratios. It's what typically hinders you from getting a proper aspect ratio. Whether you get the right aspect is down to the display's native resolution, the game's native resolution, and math. If the math doesn't give you an integer scale, well, you can't change the native resolution of your display and you can't change the native resolution of the game.

Almost the only way you will ever get a 4:3 integer scale from a 240p retro game on standard displays is when the horizontal resolution is 320 or an integer multiple of that, but that just isn't the case for most 8 and 16 bit systems. On the other hand, consider your typical 320x240 N64 game: The N64 already interpolates the 320px lines onto 640px lines ("VI Blur"), but these in-between pixels can be ignored to restore the original 320x240 resolution (so-called "VI DeBlur") using UltraHDMI, N64Advanced, etc. From there you can take a 240p N64 game (320x240) and do 2x2 (640x480), 3x3 (960x720), 4x4 (1280x960), 5x5 (1600x1200)... even go all the way up to 4K with 9x9 (2880x2160) and the 4:3 aspect ratio will be preserved. Problem with 2160p is that these 4K displays almost always resample the image anyway, breaking your integer scale (no bueno).

Definitely barking up the wrong tree by billing integer scaling as some way to preserve the original aspect ratio. If you ever can, it's because you were lucky enough to have a horizontal resolution that was a multiple of 320... not because integer scaling helped you. Interpolating is what helps you hit a target aspect ratio regardless of the native resolution. That's kind of the opposite of what you were saying.
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Yeah a $189 SGX w/ CD would blow away sales of a SGX with the SSD3 which is still $5-700 total...


Problem is, there aren't enough SGX games to go around for the SGX consoles that already exist... and if you aren't getting it to play originals you might as well have a MiSTer instead.

As for the price:
I got my boxed SGX on Christmas Eve for $320. Like the Super SD System³, my UperGrafx UGX-02 adapter was ~$300. UGX-02 is basically an SSDS3 with perfect digital video... FPGA-style. It's like plug-and-play Hi-Def NES for PC Engine with a built-in flash card, system card, and optical drive emulator. Personally, this setup already does what I'd want from that $500-$700 FPGA setup but with original hardware, so there's decidedly less need for Analogue in this space.

Obviously, pairing UGX-02 with a white PC Engine for ~$350 total is even more appealing:
Runs original HuCards
Runs CD-ROM², Super CD-ROM², and Arcade CD-ROM² titles from SD card
True DVI-to-HDMI digital video output with integer scaling (not sampling/converting analog)
Everdrive functionality for most HuCard/TurboChip games (even US region) from SD card
Built-in System Card, Super System Card, or Games Express System Card function
Ability to run Arcade Card titles with a cheaper Arcade Card Duo
Dumps HuCards
Backs up save RAM
Takes digital screenshots
...and more.

No way I'd spend $200 more on a less-authentic FPGA clone for the stuff covered by that $350 bundle... and the only stuff left out really are the 8 SGX titles.

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34 minutes ago, CZroe said:


 

 


Problem is, there aren't enough SGX games to go around for the SGX consoles that already exist... and if you aren't getting it to play originals you might as well have a MiSTer instead.

As for the price:
I got my boxed SGX on Christmas Eve for $320. Like the Super SD System³, my UperGrafx UGX-02 adapter was ~$300. UGX-02 is basically an SSDS3 with perfect digital video... FPGA-style. It's like plug-and-play Hi-Def NES for PC Engine with a built-in flash card, system card, and optical drive emulator. Personally, this setup already does what I'd want from that $500-$700 FPGA setup but with original hardware, so there's decidedly less need for Analogue in this space.

Obviously, pairing UGX-02 with a white PC Engine for ~$350 total is even more appealing:
Runs original HuCards
Runs CD-ROM², Super CD-ROM², and Arcade CD-ROM² titles from SD card
True DVI-to-HDMI digital video output with integer scaling (not sampling/converting analog)
Everdrive functionality for most HuCard/TurboChip games (even US region) from SD card
Built-in System Card, Super System Card, or Games Express System Card function
Ability to run Arcade Card titles with a cheaper Arcade Card Duo
Dumps HuCards
Backs up save RAM
Takes digital screenshots
...and more.

No way I'd spend $200 more on a less-authentic FPGA clone for the stuff covered by that $350 bundle... and the only stuff left out really are the 8 SGX titles.

The UperGrafx is very nice, but I opted for the SSDS3 because it's way cheaper after the exchange rate (I get paid in yen, so that's essentially my home currency now), UperGrafx is always sold out whenever I check the website, I wanted to be able to do YPbPr into my CRT without needing a DAC, and I already had the OSSC and it works perfectly with that as long as I remember to change to that funky resolution that R-Type uses if I ever play that.

 

I'd like to try the UperGrafx someday, but at that price I'd rather pick up a real SuperGrafx just for fun despite having a MiSTer or some of the more uncommon Mega Drive games like Vampire Killer, Contra, or maybe Panorama Cotton.

 

As for the shortage of SuperGrafx games, Battle Ace is actually pretty easy to find. Then again, there's a reason for that. I have seen a few 1941 Counter Attacks recently, though. I know there is one in Retro Game Camp for just over 60000 yen right now. I saw Aldynes recently as well in Super Potato but it sold and I forgot how much it was.

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17 hours ago, atmn said:

My guess that Kevtris does not want the added pressure to release the jailbroken fw on the v2.

Just if it comes, its a bonus.

 

Since its totally silence in this matter I would assume that the firmwares arent compatibles between. If they where, I dont understand why not it souldnt be mentioned at all.

 

In Analogues official point of view it is the same Nt Mini we all love since its never been any official jailbreak. The addition is updated UI.

 

Maybe you've already seen this (I'm not caught up with this thread), but here's a direct quote from Kevtris regarding Nt Mini v2:

 

"I can say it will run the existing jb stuff on the nt mini"

(this if from the Classic Gaming Discord)

 

So, yes, he's publicly committed to supported all the existing JB features on the new hardware.

Edited by cacophony
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The UperGrafx is very nice, but I opted for the SSDS3 because it's way cheaper after the exchange rate (I get paid in yen, so that's essentially my home currency now), UperGrafx is always sold out whenever I check the website, I wanted to be able to do YPbPr into my CRT without needing a DAC, and I already had the OSSC and it works perfectly with that as long as I remember to change to that funky resolution that R-Type uses if I ever play that.
 
I'd like to try the UperGrafx someday, but at that price I'd rather pick up a real SuperGrafx just for fun despite having a MiSTer or some of the more uncommon Mega Drive games like Vampire Killer, Contra, or maybe Panorama Cotton.
 
As for the shortage of SuperGrafx games, Battle Ace is actually pretty easy to find. Then again, there's a reason for that. I have seen a few 1941 Counter Attacks recently, though. I know there is one in Retro Game Camp for just over 60000 yen right now. I saw Aldynes recently as well in Super Potato but it sold and I forgot how much it was.


Ah. I didn't even try to order from the UperGrafx website. When the creator announced on Twitter that he brought a few to San Diego, I sent a DM and he sent me an invoice. :)

He spent Summer 2019 studying in San Diego but he's back in Japan now. I believe Beep! in Akihabara is his retail partner if you ever want to see one on display. He was at PRGE last year and sold out really quick but it seems none of the well-known attendees reported seeing it.

Yeah, getting YPbPr with UGX requires modding the console since it blocks the only access any PnP solutions could use. I really wish the creator would add a 240p pass-through mode for people with VGA adapters but he doesn't think that's possible (others disagree). I'll be RGB-modding my SGX so I can use UGX with OSSC. There may be an internal mod to get full SGX graphics through the UGX if I'm reading the creator's twitter correctly.

Though I'd much rather have 1941 Counter Attack, I just got SGX Dai Makaimura in January and it may be the only original SGX title I'll ever buy. I just don't think I could bring myself to pay $540 for a single game! Guess I'll get Aldynes the way I get Sapphire... with the TurboGrafx-16 Mini. ;) I'll continue using the TurboEverdrive for my 1941 fix! Guess I might end up with Battle Ace just for giggles. :)

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36 minutes ago, CZroe said:

 


Ah. I didn't even try to order from the UperGrafx website. When the creator announced on Twitter that he brought a few to San Diego, I sent a DM and he sent me an invoice. :)

He spent Summer 2019 studying in San Diego but he's back in Japan now. I believe Beep! in Akihabara is his retail partner if you ever want to see one on display. He was at PRGE last year and sold out really quick but it seems none of the well-known attendees reported seeing it.

Yeah, getting YPbPr with UGX requires modding the console since it blocks the only access any PnP solutions could use. I really wish the creator would add a 240p pass-through mode for people with VGA adapters but he doesn't think that's possible (others disagree). I'll be RGB-modding my SGX so I can use UGX with OSSC. There may be an internal mod to get full SGX graphics through the UGX if I'm reading the creator's twitter correctly.

Though I'd much rather have 1941 Counter Attack, I just got SGX Dai Makaimura in January and it may be the only original SGX title I'll ever buy. I just don't think I could bring myself to pay $540 for a single game! Guess I'll get Aldynes the way I get Sapphire... with the TurboGrafx-16 Mini. ;) I'll continue using the TurboEverdrive for my 1941 fix! Guess I might end up with Battle Ace just for giggles. :)

BEEP is difficult for me to go to since it's actually closed on one of my company's off days (Wednesday). I did go once and it's a damn cool store. They have the only PC Engine LT in Akiba. They want about $6000 for it. Didn't look at it too much because right next to it is the unbelievably rare Linguaphone Education Gear (!), but that one is not for sale.

 

And don't regret buying expensive games: I bought Gleylancer last year! I'm still looking at getting Panorama Cotton, as well.

 

I just found this video where someone shows some of the inside of BEEP, and you get to see the PC Engine LT and the Linguaphone Education Gear close up. Japanese translates to "It's the/a Phantom Hardware Education Gear Prototype!". LT has been given a complete overhaul including a recap and includes the Super CD ROM2 adaptor. It doesn't mention anything about the Darius Alpha sitting next to it, though, and it (the LT) is not CIB.

 

 

Edited by Steven Pendleton
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5 hours ago, cacophony said:

 

Maybe you've already seen this (I'm not caught up with this thread), but here's a direct quote from Kevtris regarding Nt Mini v2:

 

"I can say it will run the existing jb stuff on the nt mini"

(this if from the Classic Gaming Discord)

 

So, yes, he's publicly committed to supported all the existing JB features on the new hardware.

Good news for everybody. Especially to those who haven't decided to pre order.

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 This are my thoughts for the incoming Nt mini V2:

If Nt mini V2 has more advanced hardware compared to the Nt mini V1 and they will don't share new improvements there are no excuses to make it 4K out at HDMI for the price (500$)  😎

 

Yes! I'm a happy Nt mini V1 (second run) owner :)

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