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FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

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  1. 1. I would pay....

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  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
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  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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You wouldn't want to market it with the term "clone console" or "hardware clone" because it doesn't sound sexy at all. Something like "FPGA recreation" sounds better.

 

Speaking of sounding better, one of the most difficult things to get right with old fashioned hardware cloning as well as FPGA "cloning" is sound reproduction. This is mainly because sound from old systems does not only depend on the chip generating the audio signals, but also resistor networks, amps, DACs, analogue distortions, filters, etc.

 

Going back to the 1-CHIP, we know that it sounds identical to the original console with discrete S-SMP chip (again, as far as I know).

 

Now take the case of the Famicom/NES, which has had more "clone" attempts than any other system, probably, focusing only on audio. This can help us explore degrees of separation in the original-clone spectrum. The NES uses the same chips as the original Famicom, but obviously with a different mobo and some modifications like AV output and lack of pins for cartridge expansion audio. Late Famicom consoles and early Famicom Twins sound different from the early Famicom due to different resistor arrays, especially in regard to expansion audio balance (in the case of the early TF, a manufacturing mistake). AV Famicom and Toaster use different chip revisions for the CPU, and the sound has a distinct signature. Then perhaps there is the original non-mini Analogue NT, which used original Famicom chips, with audio very close to an original Famicom, though not identical (for starters, with less analogue buzz) and user configurable for channel separation. There have been Chinese clones that used harvested original chips also. Then there are the Dendy clones, which sound obviously different, as well as currently available Chinese clones that use Dendy chips. So you have clone consoles with clone chips. There are also hybrid Chinese consoles that use Dendy clone CPUs but an emulated PPU using FPGA. And then you arrive at something like the NT Mini which uses the FPGA for all components, and audio output is adjusted at the software level.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Peredonov
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How about this. Knowing what "hardware clone" typically means to your target audience (classic gamers), would you market your meticulously crafted FPGA system as a "hardware clone"? I know I wouldn't....

 

I definitely would. I would specifically tout that a clone core on an FPGA is more than equivalent to a fixed hardware clone but is superior because it can be reconfigured. That flexibility lets you fix/correct hardware errors (!), add enhancements, or even change completely to clone an entirely different set of hardware. It's a flexible hardware clone... with huge advantages over fixed hardware clones.

 

You wouldn't want to market it with the term "clone console" or "hardware clone" because it doesn't sound sexy at all. Something like "FPGA recreation" sounds better.

 

Speaking of sounding better, one of the most difficult things to get right with old fashioned hardware cloning as well as FPGA "cloning" is sound reproduction. This is mainly because sound from old systems does not only depend on the chip generating the audio signals, but also resistor networks, amps, DACs, analogue distortions, filters, etc.

 

Going back to the 1-CHIP, we know that it sounds identical to the original console with discrete S-SMP chip (again, as far as I know).

 

Now take the case of the Famicom/NES, which has had more "clone" attempts than any other system, probably, focusing only on audio. This can help us explore degrees of separation in the original-clone spectrum. The NES uses the same chips as the original Famicom, but obviously with a different mobo and some modifications like AV output and lack of pins for cartridge expansion audio. Late Famicom consoles and early Famicom Twins sound different from the early Famicom due to different resistor arrays, especially in regard to expansion audio balance (in the case of the early TF, a manufacturing mistake). AV Famicom and Toaster use different chip revisions for the CPU, and the sound has a distinct signature. Then perhaps there is the original non-mini Analogue NT, which used original Famicom chips, with audio very close to an original Famicom, though not identical (for starters, with less analogue buzz) and user configurable for channel separation. There have been Chinese clones that used harvested original chips also. Then there are the Dendy clones, which sound obviously different, as well as currently available Chinese clones that use Dendy chips. So you have clone consoles with clone chips. There are also hybrid Chinese consoles that use Dendy clone CPUs but an emulated PPU using FPGA. And then you arrive at something like the NT Mini which uses the FPGA for all components, and audio output is adjusted at the software level.

I guess "clone" could carry negative connotations but "hardware" seems to balance it out when compared to many of the emulator consoles out there. I would only use it when explaining the advantage of FPGA and what distinguishes it from emulation systems.

 

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29 minutes ago, Peredonov said:

Just want to add to the current discussion that it's a bit disingenuous to equate a "hardware clone" such as an FPGA-based console or platform to a 1-CHIP SNES/SFC as an official "clone" console. As far as I know, there aren't any full incompatibility issues with 1-CHIPs, in the sense that there's no official titles that won't run on it. Instead, there are only a handful of minor inaccuracies. A helicopter or airplane's shadow that doesn't display correctly in some action game I can't recall, some flickering small line in a Street Fighter game... what else is there? In any case, the crucial difference would be not only the type of implementation of such a "clone", but the fact that it is officially vetted by the original manufacturer.

 

It’s more a comparison that just because a rejigger of a circuit design is being done by the same folks that designed the thing originally, or have access to the original documentation and/or circuit designs, doesn’t mean it’s going to be functionally identical. 

 

The key difference between an “official clone” and a “3rd party” clone is mostly how much reverse engineering you have to do, and thus the risk of introducing bugs to the circuit because of that work.

 

23 minutes ago, jamon1567 said:

I understand what you're saying and largely agree with you, but I just know I wouldn't refer to it as a hardware clone considering what hardware clones of the past have been. I would consider it something different, and as I stated, if it were my creation, I would market it as something different.

 

Yeah, this is where I (as an engineer) tend to clash with folks in marketing. From an engineering perspective, kevtris is cloning hardware. But on the marketing side, I’d agree that it’s hard to market something like the Super NT as a “clone” because of bootleggers and emulation boxes like the Hyperkin stuff.

 

Really the difference is that Analogue is selling a boutique product rather than trying to produce it for the cheapest price possible, and has kevtris doing the engineering work which helps a lot.

 

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So I think this is how most clones categorize:

FPGA hardware clone

Fixed hardware clone

Emulation software clone

 

...or even fewer if you just want to call them "hardware clones" and "software clones" but then you sell FPGA short. atariage_icon_wink.gif

 

 

FPGA hardware clone = reconfigurable hardware configured to execute software natively without translation

 

Fixed hardware clone = hardware executing software natively without translation

 

Emulation software clone = software interpreting and adapting other software for non-native hardware

 

"Hardware clone" without specifying which really should be able to apply to FPGAs running a clone core as much as it applies to a traditional ASIC produced in volume. FPGA is just a non-"Application-Specific" ASIC* since it can be reconfigured in place ("Field Programmable") for a new "Application." ...like when you load a different core on your Nt Mini.

 

*Application-Specific Integrated Circuit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I heard there was a Sony PS1 [or 'PSX' however it got that name] FPGA core in the works be it for Mister or otherwise. Anyone know the latest? Can anyone see Analogue making a CD based system?  I don't know how much more manufacturing cost a cd drive would be on an Analogue device when a jailbreak would be WAY more convenient (and silent) even to those that have original discs. Unless Kevtris made a system with multiple cores to go up against the Polymega emulated option or Seedi. So a CD based commercial FPGA system seems unlikely to me currently but I could be surprised. The effort would need the added value of more system cores.

 

For PS1, I would only be interested in something playing ISO files or bin/cue in FPGA or ODE (not PSIO). Sony PS1 is where I think MiSTer will SHINE to eventually be a BETTER PS1 than any actual PS1. By default, no discs and hopefully better load times. Then you have HDMI or IO board outputs. I can imagine over time, development will then be for video what MDFourier does for audio. Imagine video settings for original PS1 look vs. PS2/PS3 normal/smoothing filters. For now, I am still experimenting with 'the best' way to play PS1 games on my PS1/2/3 or emulated on the Classic mini via built in or Retroarch be it PS1's accuracy albeit swapping discs or convenience of emulation.

Edited by seastalker
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23 hours ago, CZroe said:

So I think this is how most clones categorize:

FPGA hardware clone

Fixed hardware clone

Emulation software clone

 

...or even fewer if you just want to call them "hardware clones" and "software clones" but then you sell FPGA short. atariage_icon_wink.gif

 

 

FPGA hardware clone = reconfigurable hardware configured to execute software natively without translation

 

Fixed hardware clone = hardware executing software natively without translation

 

Emulation software clone = software interpreting and adapting other software for non-native hardware

 

"Hardware clone" without specifying which really should be able to apply to FPGAs running a clone core as much as it applies to a traditional ASIC produced in volume. FPGA is just a non-"Application-Specific" ASIC* since it can be reconfigured in place ("Field Programmable") for a new "Application." ...like when you load a different core on your Nt Mini.

 

*Application-Specific Integrated Circuit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holy Shit! The last 2 dumpster fire pages summed up. If its not the original, its a clone by definition (one that appears to be a copy of an original form : Duplicate)! It doesn't matter if it is good or bad marketing or what the connotations of the word "clone" are.

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I heard there was a Sony PS1 [or 'PSX' however it got that name] FPGA core in the works be it for Mister or otherwise. Anyone know the latest? Can anyone see Analogue making a CD based system?  I don't know how much more manufacturing cost a cd drive would be on an Analogue device when a jailbreak would be WAY more convenient (and silent) even to those that have original discs. Unless Kevtris made a system with multiple cores to go up against the Polymega emulated option or Seedi. So a CD based commercial FPGA system seems unlikely to me currently but I could be surprised. The effort would need the added value of more system cores.   For PS1, I would only be interested in something playing ISO files or bin/cue in FPGA or ODE (not PSIO). Sony PS1 is where I think MiSTer will SHINE to eventually be a BETTER PS1 than any actual PS1. By default, no discs and hopefully better load times. Then you have HDMI or IO board outputs. I can imagine over time, development will then be for video what MDFourier does for audio. Imagine video settings for original PS1 look vs. PS2/PS3 normal/smoothing filters. For now, I am still experimenting with 'the best' way to play PS1 games on my PS1/2/3 or emulated on the Classic mini via built in or Retroarch be it PS1's accuracy albeit swapping discs or convenience of emulation.

 

 

Yeah, compared to their past consoles a commercialized PlayStation/PSone FPGA console that only does PSX would be a harder sell. That's because the original console is cheap, there is already a direct digital video mod, and there's no shortage of official alternativenways to play them (some, even with HDMI). It really would need the added value of some other PlayStation contemporaries like Saturn, Jaguar, and 3DO. Considering that PlayStation alone would be the most ambitious FPGA effort yet and the others would be similarly ambitious (Saturn probably more-so than the PSX), I don't think it's reasonable to expect PlayStation from Analogue. atariage_icon_sad.gif 

A non-commercial PSX core seems much more feasible.

 

 

 

Holy Shit! The last 2 dumpster fire pages summed up. If its not the original, its a clone by definition (one that appears to be a copy of an original form : Duplicate)! It doesn't matter if it is good or bad marketing or what the connotations of the word "clone" are.

Yeah. I think some thought this was about whether or not they are clones but that was never in question.

 

...but wait: "Dumpster fire?"

 

I thought it was productive and educational while clearing up some myths about FPGA. ;)

 

Did you read the Medium article about custom chip logic? It doesn't even mention FPGA but it shows how similar ASICs are (custom logic assembled from standard logic units/blocks). Very good read!

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I hope the current situation doesn't affect Pocket preorder date too bad, but understandable if it happens.   

In all honestly I'm hoping it turns into like a Pocketable MiSTer with the potential third party cores.  I'm probably not gonna bother buying the dock as I already have something for my big screen TV, but the Pocket will sure be great for use on the go, or hey when I'm taking care of my "business" in the bathroom lol.  SMB on the toilet with that nice 3.5" LCD?  Yes please. 

In terms of the whole emulation debate, I say who cares.  Is it relatively accurate and low lag? That is all that matters to me.

Edited by SegaSnatcher
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9 hours ago, CZroe said:

Yeah, compared to their past consoles a commercialized PlayStation/PSone FPGA console that only does PSX would be a harder sell. That's because the original console is cheap, there is already a direct digital video mod, and there's no shortage of official alternativenways to play them (some, even with HDMI). It really would need the added value of some other PlayStation contemporaries like Saturn, Jaguar, and 3DO. Considering that PlayStation alone would be the most ambitious FPGA effort yet and the others would be similarly ambitious (Saturn probably more-so than the PSX), I don't think it's reasonable to expect PlayStation from Analogue. atariage_icon_sad.gif 

A non-commercial PSX core seems much more feasible.

Are you really sure about that though? For one thing, a lot of PSX disc drives are in rough shape so finding a decent model will probably cost about $60-80ish. You’re also at the mercy of the PS1Digital, which means you have to find a specific window of model number—between SCPH-50XX and 70XX. Add on to all that a PSIO and the costs to install the boards for both mods with shipping and all the fuss, and I’m not really sure how you can say that there’s no room for an Analogue version of that. I’m guessing that once the PS1Digital mod is released, I will have spent about $500+ (CAD) on putting together a fully modded PSX and I can’t imagine it being as good as a solution that Analogue developed in house. Also would be a far sight better than using either a PS2, PS3, PSP, or Vita/PSTV considering that there are some irritating flaws with how they all handle PSX games. 

Edited by Drunk_Caterpillar

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I wouldn't expect that PS1 core getting finished anytime soon.  It is literally a one man project right now and taking on the PS1 is definitely a huge leap over implementing something like say a SNES.  We will be lucky to see some type of gameplay happening in 2021 at the earliest.

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On 4/24/2020 at 11:51 AM, CZroe said:

 

I guess "clone" could carry negative connotations but "hardware" seems to balance it out when compared to many of the emulator consoles out there. I would only use it when explaining the advantage of FPGA and what distinguishes it from emulation systems.

 

 

Clone has the same connotation as "counterfeit", so any kind of Cloned hardware will be seen as inferior, and thus that's why you wouldn't call it that, even if it's technically true, because it's also technically true of inferior counterfeits based on cheap mass-produced parts.

 

For the FPGA consoles, the most logical and safest thing to call them is "Modern (8/16)-bit game console, plays all licensed games like you remember them"

 

As far as amount of error precision one would accept, it's acceptable, in most cases, for minor audio or video glitches that are a direct result of a full digital signal. As a weird example, when I was setting up the HDMI capture (and the capture device wasn't picking up the 1080p signal) I noticed that there's some faint noise in the black area of about 1/3 from left side of the screen that was only picked up because I accidentally did "flood fill"in the paint program's still image of the dark area of it. It's completely unnoticeable otherwise, and if the FPGA is emulating it, it's reason enough to believe that there's a reason for it. 

 

Super-NT-SMAS.png

 

The background was flood-filled with RGB:255,0,255 to make it readily apparent. I'm not sure if other games do it, but it was discovered entirely by accident.

 

As far as scanlines go, I know some people want them, but I don't because to me, all the scanlines and scalers look worse than integer scale, and I'd rather have the image aspect-ratio correct on a high resolution screen, and have the result window-boxed than try to make it look like a CRT in any shape.

 

In software emulators, typically the scaler/shader is applied after the game output, and the consequence is that it's trying to do a one-size-fits-all at the cost of 1-2 additional frames of latency on an already laggy render pipeline. You just won't get around that unless you can jettison the operating system, and short of something like retropie building it's own close-to-metal OS for it, a lot of these ARM SoC's are no better than what you can run on a desktop OS.

Edited by Kismet

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Are you really sure about that though? For one thing, a lot of PSX disc drives are in rough shape so finding a decent model will probably cost about $60-80ish. You’re also at the mercy of the PS1Digital, which means you have to find a specific window of model number—between SCPH-50XX and 70XX. Add on to all that a PSIO and the costs to install the boards for both mods with shipping and all the fuss, and I’m not really sure how you can say that there’s no room for an Analogue version of that. I’m guessing that once the PS1Digital mod is released, I will have spent about $500+ (CAD) on putting together a fully modded PSX and I can’t imagine it being as good as a solution that Analogue developed in house. Also would be a far sight better than using either a PS2, PS3, PSP, or Vita/PSTV considering that there are some irritating flaws with how they all handle PSX games. 

Good points, but I dunno about "$50-$60." I mean, I have stacks of pretty much every version all found for $5-$10 each and the replacement drives are affordable if you need one. In one night I burned and installed 5 chips (MM3 and Mayumi) for almost nothing (less than $1 each). Most of the drives worked and the ones that didn't I just salvaged from another
That said, PSDigital is a stop-gap product before the release the PS2Digital that they were working on all along. I think that will be an even bigger

There's also POPSloader for OPL which lets you play PSX games from the HDD, though it's really Sony's PSX emulator for PS2, extracted from late-gen PS2 consoles. I believe it uses some original hardware like the PSX CPU so it's only half-emulation but I think I'd still rather have a modded console than something problematic like PSIO.

Dan's always been really reasonable with the pricing of his kits so I can see a nice PSX HDMI setup with mods being closer to $100 for DIY. Obviously, DIY leaves the rest of the market open but, again, I don't think there is enough demand for an Analogue PSX that doesn't do anything else given the alternatives available. It will likely need an FPGA closer in specs to the MiSTer and that will be EXPENSIVE. Remember: DE10 nano is subsidized as an engineering/learning tool. That means it would be their most difficult and expensive to make FPGA console with potentially less profit potential.

If they do it, it will probably be a more fully-realized Zimba 3000 but it will still be weird having that expensive FPGA in there for one system when everything else will run on the usual Cyclone V. Perhaps it makes more sense if it was open to the community like MiSTer to invite more stuff to use the more-powerful FPGA.

Clone has the same connotation as "counterfeit", so any kind of Cloned hardware will be seen as inferior, and thus that's why you wouldn't call it that, even if it's technically true, because it's also technically true of inferior counterfeits based on cheap mass-produced parts.

I disagree, though I see people making that assumption. That's an incorrect assumption we need to challenge. The way you change that is to start making quality clones.

x86 IBM PC clones had a rocky start until the BIOS was legally reverse-engineered to make the first "100%-compatible" IBM PC clones and that was a badge every IBM clone PC seller wore proudly. Now, even premium Apple computers are essentially IBM PC clones, though people stopped calling PCs that when IBM themselves stopped being relevant in the industry.

For the FPGA consoles, the most logical and safest thing to call them is "Modern (8/16)-bit game console, plays all licensed games like you remember them"

I don't think "Modern (8/16)-bit game console" is descriptive enough and makes it seem like a different platform. Being a premium hardware clone is a selling point. Adding "plays all licensed games like you remember them" still leaves people who care about the underlying tech wondering if it's a hardware clone or software clone (emulator).

As far as amount of error precision one would accept, it's acceptable, in most cases, for minor audio or video glitches that are a direct result of a full digital signal. As a weird example, when I was setting up the HDMI capture (and the capture device wasn't picking up the 1080p signal) I noticed that there's some faint noise in the black area of about 1/3 from left side of the screen that was only picked up because I accidentally did "flood fill"in the paint program's still image of the dark area of it. It's completely unnoticeable otherwise, and if the FPGA is emulating it, it's reason enough to believe that there's a reason for it. 
 
Super-NT-SMAS.png
 
The background was flood-filled with RGB:255,0,255 to make it readily apparent. I'm not sure if other games do it, but it was discovered entirely by accident.
 
As far as scanlines go, I know some people want them, but I don't because to me, all the scanlines and scalers look worse than integer scale, and I'd rather have the image aspect-ratio correct on a high resolution screen, and have the result window-boxed than try to make it look like a CRT in any shape.
 
In software emulators, typically the scaler/shader is applied after the game output, and the consequence is that it's trying to do a one-size-fits-all at the cost of 1-2 additional frames of latency on an already laggy render pipeline. You just won't get around that unless you can jettison the operating system, and short of something like retropie building it's own close-to-metal OS for it, a lot of these ARM SoC's are no better than what you can run on a desktop OS.

Agreed. At least a full PC is more likely to have the horsepower for run-ahead emulation or BSNES. ;)

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1 hour ago, CZroe said:

There's also POPSloader for OPL which lets you play PSX games from the HDD, though it's really Sony's PSX emulator for PS2, extracted from late-gen PS2 consoles. I believe it uses some original hardware like the PSX CPU so it's only half-emulation but I think I'd still rather have a modded console than something problematic like PSIO.

Hold up.

 

How is PSIO more problematic than POPStarter? Compatibility with POPS, and even OPL with PS2 games, is kinda all over the place. Even a stock PS2 still has problems with some important PSX games. The whole reason I put together a heavily modded PSX is because playing PSX games on PS2 is a minefield. At this point PSIO has a few lingering issues but it boots and plays nearly 100% of the PSX library...

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Hold up.

 

How is PSIO more problematic than POPStarter? Compatibility with POPS, and even OPL with PS2 games, is kinda all over the place. Even a stock PS2 still has problems with some important PSX games. The whole reason I put together a heavily modded PSX is because playing PSX games on PS2 is a minefield. At this point PSIO has a few lingering issues but it boots and plays nearly 100% of the PSX library...

 

PSIO isn't more problematic than POPS. POPS is an emulator that was just good enough to ditch the rest of the PSX hardware that wasnt used in PS2 mode, which brings with it a host of other issues.

 

PSIO is much better, especially since you can still run your original discs and it is compatible with existing mods. The problem is that every update I see to fix an important game breaks equally important games so it hasn't really improved much in years despite the price and being top dog (no other PSX ODEs). It's spinning it's wheels despite the expense. Personally I decided to wait for it to improve or for something better to challenge it since burning discs still works for me.

 

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50 minutes ago, CZroe said:

It's spinning it's wheels despite the expense.

Is it though? Cybdyn is still actively developing the firmware and updates are being released regularly. Matt is receptive to user feedback and has been active on the forums. 

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Is it though? Cybdyn is still actively developing the firmware and updates are being released regularly. Matt is receptive to user feedback and has been active on the forums. 
I think so, if every update breaks as many important games as it fixes. Granted, I've only closely compared a few updates when I first noticed this going on so maybe the situation has changed.

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I've been following the PSIO closely for the past 3 years. It's definitely been a rollercoaster type of development path, and though I felt pretty disappointed especially last year after multiple regressions were introduced, I am now feeling more optimistic than not about it.

 

The 99.9% compatibility they have advertised for all these years has been false advertisement, which is frustrating.

 

That said, it appears to be closer to being true now than ever, though besides a small number of known incompatibilities in specific titles, there remain at least two significant inaccuracy issues that impact all games in general, rather than specific titles.

 

One is that the stereo channels can be randomly flipped on start or re-start of an audio track. This affects CDDA audio, XA audio, and STR audio (used in FMVs). Base SPU audio doesn't seem to be affected though. PSIO has to decode all of such audio because the original process for doing so cannot be accessed from the parallel I/O port. This means that accuracy of such audio will depend entirely on the quality of Cybdyn's code. This issue has been known at least since last year, and there are no updates showing any progress, though the team is reportedly investigating it still.

 

The other general issue was introduced in one of the firmware updates last year, which causes some games to show frame stuttering in certain conditions (more so than on a real and good-condition CD-ROM). There are also no updates about progress in fixing this issue at this point.

 

 Response to individual title bugs has been very good, however, and almost all seem to be fixed for the next unreleased update (which hopefully will not introduce regressions). One of the devs even brought up the possibility of a patch for Vib Ribbon to run on PSIO. So that 99.9% compatibility claim will probably be true eventually, but the degree to which "compatibility" and "accuracy" will overlap is still uncertain.

 

 

 

Edited by Peredonov
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22 minutes ago, CZroe said:
59 minutes ago, Drunk_Caterpillar said:
Is it though? Cybdyn is still actively developing the firmware and updates are being released regularly. Matt is receptive to user feedback and has been active on the forums. 

I think so, if every update breaks as many important games as it fixes. Granted, I've only closely compared a few updates when I first noticed this going on so maybe the situation has changed.

I mean, I wish I knew more about FPGA development but based on changelogs I've read from a few projects I imagine that progress isn't always linear—some fixes might break other things and it takes time to play bug hunt whack-a-mole. They seem to be putting in the work and chipping away at bug reports though, and they're definitely aware of the bigger problems in the wild right now. 

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A decent alternative to both PSIO and POPSloader is a modded PSP, specifically a modded PSPGo which offers both TV output (even actual 240p for PSX games!) and compatibility with Dual Shock 3 controllers.

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34 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

A decent alternative to both PSIO and POPSloader is a modded PSP, specifically a modded PSPGo which offers both TV output (even actual 240p for PSX games!) and compatibility with Dual Shock 3 controllers.

Yeah, I've been planning on getting a PSP.   I was thinking the 2000 model.

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52 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Yeah, I've been planning on getting a PSP.   I was thinking the 2000 model.

I have 2 or 3 2000s and a Go. Go is better by far if you are planning on hacking it, and maybe even if you are not planning on it provided you are okay with digital only games, which I think you can still download and put on the system through a PC or PS3. It also has a far superior screen than the other models and the dock so you can turn it into basically a super tiny version of the Switch and play with a PS3 controller.

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12 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I have 2 or 3 2000s and a Go. Go is better by far if you are planning on hacking it, and maybe even if you are not planning on it provided you are okay with digital only games, which I think you can still download and put on the system through a PC or PS3. It also has a far superior screen than the other models and the dock so you can turn it into basically a super tiny version of the Switch and play with a PS3 controller.


Yeah PS3 support on the Go is pretty cool, but how many games support it?

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The PSP GO is pretty sweet, but last I checked the docks and memory cards were going for a premium.

My favorite PSP system is the Japanese Monster Hunter 3000 system. It’s extra bulky like the 1000 models, has a rubberized surface, and a much improved analog nub.

7a93eb85259f40131ffb27000e75a17c.jpg

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