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kevtris

FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

637 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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If you like the fact that you probably won't get the dock because it's limited quantity will be gone in a second and the fact that once released, all the bugs you will discover won't be fixed, yeah, it is great.

Can see why Kevtris is no longer hanging here... 
 
Can't blame him.
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1 hour ago, Slipard said:

Can see why Kevtris is no longer hanging here... 🤦‍♂️

 

Can't blame him.

 

1 hour ago, CZroe said:


Can see why Kevtris is no longer hanging here... emoji2357.png
 
Can't blame him.

 

Um... Did you just accidently out your alt?  🤔

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Um... Did you just accidently out your alt? 
I used his own words with an example of a previous post of his so he can see that it's actually posts like his deterring Kevtris from participating here. Threw his words back at him.

If you're saying I might be Kevtris' alt, well, I'm nowhere near as handsome and intelligent as that magnificent specimen. ;)
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It's an impressive lack of understanding, but, well, not the first time with you.

 

Anyway, this thread has long gone uninteresting and low level, so as much as I dislike Discord, I will mostly be there so that you can be together in your "lowliness".

Edited by Slipard

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It's an impressive lack of understanding, but, well, not the first time with you.   Anyway, this thread has long gone uninteresting and low level, so as much as I dislike Discord, I will mostly be there so that you can be together in your "lowliness".  

 

 

Oh, I'd say I understood quite well and you just don't like how bitingly insightful it was while using nothing but your own words.

 

 

Sorry, but it's the truth.

 

Good day, sir.

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From the man himself on Discord Today:

 

kevtris  Today at 6:31 PM
I don't even look at my thread on atariage any more. lol
it's just complaining

 

He's not wrong.

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It is too bad he is so overextended currently.  A lot of the complaints about lack of updates or products going on sale for the older, and even more recent Analogue products, are legit.  The product support of that entire company rests on Kevtris.  They'd be screwed if he couldn't or didn't want to work with them anymore.

 

Even though it isn't an Analogue product it would be cool to have the hidefnes be able to work with the DAC but with how busy Kevtris is I highly doubt some of his older projects will ever get attention again.

Edited by Toth

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1 hour ago, Toth said:

Even though it isn't an Analogue product it would be cool to have the hidefnes be able to work with the DAC but with how busy Kevtris is I highly doubt some of his older projects will ever get attention again.

When was the last time the hidefnes was updated? Has anyone tried to use the DAc with it though?

Edited by Intense.Mark

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1 hour ago, Toth said:

Even though it isn't an Analogue product it would be cool to have the hidefnes be able to work with the DAC but with how busy Kevtris is I highly doubt some of his older projects will ever get attention again.

Hidefnes is an overly mature product and its support life came to an end a while ago. I remember that being mentioned in this thread several years ago. The Hidefnes was the proof of skill and concept that allowed Kevtris to move forward with Analogue.

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Hidefnes is an overly mature product and its support life came to an end a while ago. I remember that being mentioned in this thread several years ago. The Hidefnes was the proof of skill and concept that allowed Kevtris to move forward with Analogue.

Well, Kev said he was fixing some things but he ended up breaking a few more things and the last batch even shipped with rolled-back FW. Never has been perfect but I never expected it to be and I'm grateful for any update. I have been under the assumption that Kevtris plans to revisit it since he did say he intended to fix those issues way back when.

 

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1 hour ago, Toth said:

It is too bad he is so overextended currently.  A lot of the complaints about lack of updates or products going on sale for the older, and even more recent Analogue products, are legit.  The product support of that entire company rests on Kevtris.  They'd be screwed if he couldn't or didn't want to work with them anymore.

This is why they should at least allow other people to contribute. Like for example, releasing the firmware to github or similar, so people can submit pull requests / patches that can be reviewed and where Kevtris can weigh in. Closed source with just one person doing all the work clearly isn't an optimal approach here. Compare this to a project like the Pyra at DragonBox, where people from the community are able to help and contribute (which has helped working out hardware and software issues that otherwise would have taken a hell of a lot longer to sort out) so it isn't just one guy (Evil Dragon) doing everything. Analog really should just open up on the software side. I suspect this would help lower their overall development times and costs.

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1 hour ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

Hidefnes is an overly mature product and its support life came to an end a while ago. I remember that being mentioned in this thread several years ago. The Hidefnes was the proof of skill and concept that allowed Kevtris to move forward with Analogue.

@Sneakyturtleegg so does this mean that game-tech will not be selling these anymore? IMO Kevtris should have a back up plan for his products and support as working for a company is not gonna be forever. 

  

1 hour ago, CZroe said:

Well, Kev said he was fixing some things but he ended up breaking a few more things and the last batch even shipped with rolled-back FW. Never has been perfect but I never expected it to be and I'm grateful for any update. I have been under the assumption the Kevtris plans to revisit it since he did say he intended to fix those issues way back when.

@CZroe if he promised to fix those, I hope he does. I don't have a hidefnes so I don't know it's problems compared to the NT mini

54 minutes ago, blzmarcel said:

This is why they should at least allow other people to contribute. Like for example, releasing the firmware to github or similar, so people can submit pull requests / patches that can be reviewed and where Kevtris can weigh in. Closed source with just one person doing all the work clearly isn't an optimal approach here. Compare this to a project like the Pyra at DragonBox, where people from the community are able to help and contribute (which has helped working out hardware and software issues that otherwise would have taken a hell of a lot longer to sort out) so it isn't just one guy (Evil Dragon) doing everything. Analog really should just open up on the software side. I suspect this would help lower their overall development times and costs.

@blzmarcel right. Kevtris won't be able to do everything by himself. Working on new products and fixing issues with current products. Analogue has 3 products with old fw by now. I also find it weird when someone complains to Analogue and their support tells them that our engineers are working on it while always believe there's only 1 guy (Kevtris) working on it.

Edited by Intense.Mark

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9 hours ago, blzmarcel said:

Analog really should just open up on the software side. I suspect this would help lower their overall development times and costs.

If they do, it will expose them to people creating clones and destroy their niche (i.e. FPGA consoles that take original carts).

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If they do, it will expose them to people creating clones and destroy their niche (i.e. FPGA consoles that take original carts).
People can already use MiSTer cores to make those clones.

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6 hours ago, CZroe said:

People can already use MiSTer cores to make those clones.

Yes, but that is considerable more work than taking code already adapted for it. The people who pull these shenanigans usually want the least effort possible.

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21 hours ago, Intense.Mark said:

@Sneakyturtleegg so does this mean that game-tech will not be selling these anymore? IMO Kevtris should have a back up plan for his products and support as working for a company is not gonna be forever. 

  

I have no idea if game-tech will continue to sell the hidefnes. It is not listed in his shop at the moment. If you are interested, I suppose that you could contact Jason. Also, you cannot expect Kevtris to support his products forever. There isn't a company in the world that does this. There is always a point of demarcation. My point was to not expect continued support for the hidefnes as it is a mature product. Kevtris seems to be moving forward at a fast pace.

 

Edited by Sneakyturtleegg

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21 hours ago, blzmarcel said:

This is why they should at least allow other people to contribute. Like for example, releasing the firmware to github or similar, so people can submit pull requests / patches that can be reviewed and where Kevtris can weigh in. Closed source with just one person doing all the work clearly isn't an optimal approach here. Compare this to a project like the Pyra at DragonBox, where people from the community are able to help and contribute (which has helped working out hardware and software issues that otherwise would have taken a hell of a lot longer to sort out) so it isn't just one guy (Evil Dragon) doing everything. Analog really should just open up on the software side. I suspect this would help lower their overall development times and costs.

You want Kevtris and Analogue to give away for free everything they have worked for? You obviously don't understand this part of their business model, which is a closed ecosystem. Their implemented ideas, IP and code are protected specifically so they can make money. An open source retro gaming FPGA model already exists - Mister. There is no centralized company making money off of this concept. It has all sorts of people contributing to it. As consumers we have choices, like we do with computer/phone operating systems. You will never see Microsoft or Apple open everything up to let others make improvements. They make money by selling their proprietary products. If you don't like Microsoft and Apple, there are various open source alternatives with linux.

Edited by Sneakyturtleegg

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Yes, but that is considerable more work than taking code already adapted for it. The people who pull these shenanigans usually want the least effort possible.

"It?"

 

If they were making a clone they would probably want to make a cheaper platform, which means using an off the shelf board design or engineering one around cheaper components rather than making a 1:1 clone. This holds true even if they wanted it to look like a 1:1 clone. Either way, they'd likely need to port the HDL.

 

The freely available MiSTer code means the hardest part of building an Analogue clone or counterfeit is already done. They'd actually be removing some of the complexity to add a cartridge slot and ditch extraneous features.

 

If they really wanted to move in to Analogue's market, they could.

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2 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

You want Kevtris and Analogue to give away for free everything they have worked for? You obviously don't understand this part of their business model, which is a closed ecosystem.

No, just things like the firmware. Sort of like Apple did [here] and [here]. And yet they still have their own walled-garden ecosystem. Analogue's core focus is hardware, and it clear that they are struggling on the software side due to being under manned for those tasks, especially with getting out updates. Their one and only main developer, as great as he is, is just one person. So this is not just another "wah, opensource everything, close source sucks" tirade, but just an objective observation, from which it appears they could really benefit from leveraging the skills of others, while still maintaining control, and not having to incur the costs of hiring more employees. So if managed correctly, it would be a a very real win-win for them and their customers and help them build a community and who knows, maybe possibly even attract some MiSTer contributors, since the window would be wide open for that.

Edited by blzmarcel
Typo: Now -> No

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1 hour ago, blzmarcel said:

Analogue's core focus is hardware

This is the linchpin of your argument, and honestly, I don't believe it holds. The hardware is not the secret sauce. Like Apple they want to sell you the whole widget, and also like Apple the hardware itself is well-designed commodity hardware. The most proprietary thing in Analogue's hardware is the custom cart connector if they use one.

 

The firmware is the golden goose in this case. The work put into the cores are why folks here respect kevtris' work, and why the widget is valuable in the first place. They could still enable contributions under a license that protects themselves against cloning, sure, but that would likely discourage MiSTer contributors as it wouldn't truly be open in the same sense that MiSTer is. And cloners won't care what the license is. The Super NT / Mega SG in particular are built as complete systems. I suspect it's not well componentized to let them just open the emulation core, while leaving everything else closed.

 

Note that what Apple open sourced is effectively the kernel and supporting bits. Along with the BSD environment they really should be providing source for because it's customized code from the OSS community. The OS as a whole is not open, and the license forbids running macOS on non-Apple hardware. Apple themselves know their golden goose is the OS and platform they provide. Not the nice, yet pricy, hardware.

 

Really, the Pocket's approach is probably what Analogue's idea of an open FPGA platform from them looks like. They could probably open the cores up to the community that way without giving away the whole game, but who knows if they will. 

Edited by Kaide
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1 hour ago, blzmarcel said:

No, just things like the firmware. Sort of like Apple did [here] and [here]. And yet they still have their own walled-garden ecosystem. Analogue's core focus is hardware, and it clear that they are struggling on the software side due to being under manned for those tasks, especially with getting out updates. Their one and only main developer, as great as he is, is just one person. So this is not just another "wah, opensource everything, close source sucks" tirade, but just an objective observation, from which it appears they could really benefit from leveraging the skills of others, while still maintaining control, and not having to incur the costs of hiring more employees. So if managed correctly, it would be a a very real win-win for them and their customers and help them build a community and who knows, maybe possibly even attract some MiSTer contributors, since the window would be wide open for that.

I'm not sure you are getting it. The closed source firmware IS Analogue's ecosystem. Its proprietary and what they sell to make money. Its likely never going to be open and free for others to contribute. Apple and Google may be able to make money off of open source, but they are huge companies. Those same concepts really don't scale to such small businesses in niche markets, like Analogue's. You can't have it both ways. Only a handful of people have the expertise to do what Kevtris provides to Analogue. And I don't think it is clear that Analogue is struggling on the software side. To the contrary, I think the opposite is true. Kevtris and Analogue are servicing a previously untapped market. The demand for and quality of their systems is indicative of this. Their clone systems are the best in the business. As with any device requiring firmware, there are always going to be edge cases. Nothing is going to be perfect. Be realistic about it.

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On 6/25/2020 at 8:43 PM, Sneakyturtleegg said:

From the man himself on Discord Today:

 

kevtris  Today at 6:31 PM
I don't even look at my thread on atariage any more. lol
it's just complaining

 

He's not wrong.

No matter what you do in life, people will always complain. That being said, I think you have to strike a balance between ignoring frivolous complaints and legitimate ones.

 

Where that balance is in regards to FW and these products, it's not for me to say, I'm just saddened that Kevtris is lumping everything in the ignore category, as I'm sure there is still legitimate in there as well.

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3 hours ago, Kaide said:

The firmware is the golden goose in this case. The work put into the cores are why folks here respect kevtris' work, and why the widget is valuable in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, Sneakyturtleegg said:

I'm not sure you are getting it. The closed source firmware IS Analogue's ecosystem. Its proprietary and what they sell to make money. Its likely never going to be open and free for others to contribute.

I understand what you guys are saying, and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

What it looks like is Analogue wants to be like Apple, making their own hardware and software for it, which is fine and great. But they have nowhere near the kind of resources and man power that a company like Apple has. They have one real engineer afaik, Kevtris, who seems to be the sole person handling new product design, repairs, and updates. That really doesn't seem to be very sustainable unless more help is bought in. I'm only going off of all the reports in this thread and elsewhere on the web about how slow support responses are, how high shipping costs are, and fairly low product runs. If I'm missing something please correct me, by all means.

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