FPGA Based Videogame System

[Wolf_]

No thanks. By CRT effects I don't just mean scanlines but the entire appearance. In my opinion, retro games look graphically better on CRT's.

As stated earlier (not by me) "crt effects" are simply how crts reproduce the image because they are incapable of exact digital lossless reproduction and as a result each crt adds a bit of its own "flavor" to the mix. If you really want a crt effect just misalign your lcd display color settings and bam image successfully degraded. I suppose a "connoisseur" could make the argument it is like using a tube amp to get warmer sounds from your speakers/iems but the fact still stands that if you want a lcd display to do the same thing you just screw up the color settings so you are no longer getting an exact reproduction.

[Schizophretard]

each crt adds a bit of its own "flavor" to the mix.

 

Which is why I own many CRT's. I can pick which flavor I'm in the mood for.

[Radfoo]

I have a couple of CRT TVs and a load of arcade monitors. They all produce lovely images as they are maintained, a couple of the arcades are early 80's models and still produce as good an image as they did when they were new, much better than the latter ones from the 90's.

Having said that, the NT Mini is the first time a modern LCD panel is acceptable to me, in fact, for some systems and for the practicality it is superior.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Radfoo

[Wolf_]

 

Which is why I own many CRT's. I can pick which flavor I'm in the mood for.

Or you could own one lcd display and just tweak the colors to degrade them into whatever you were in the mood for. Other than conversion, scale, and inherent lcd lag there is 0 reason other than nostalgia to prefer crts.

[Schizophretard]

Or you could own one lcd display and just tweak the colors to degrade them into whatever you were in the mood for. Other than conversion, scale, and inherent lcd lag there is 0 reason other than nostalgia to prefer crts.

 

Zero reasons for you but not for me. Am I not allowed to have my own preferences? Anyway, I have never seen anyone tweak an LCD to look identical to a CRT.

[Wolf_]

 

Zero reasons for you but not for me. Am I not allowed to have my own preferences? Anyway, I have never seen anyone tweak an LCD to look identical to a CRT.

You are, but they are *your* reasons and not something you should bring into a talk about an ideal gaming experience when what *you* want is to take a step backwards.

 

And as every crt is inaccurate technically by randomly degrading the image that would likely make it look pretty close to at least one crt tv.

[Schizophretard]

You are, but they are *your* reasons and not something you should bring into a talk about an ideal gaming experience when what *you* want is to take a step backwards.

 

And as every crt is inaccurate technically by randomly degrading the image that would likely make it look pretty close to at least one crt tv.

 

This whole thread is about people's preferences taking a step backwards. For similar types of reasons that you can't relate to why I would think it would be kind of neat if someday people used FPGA's to preserve CRT's others couldn't relate to why we would want to use FPGA's to preserve retro consoles. They could say that instead of preserving retro consoles gaming should just be improved, that we should only use modern consoles and other modern gaming technology, there are no good reasons other than nostalgia to play retro games, etc.

 

Anyway, this talk about an ideal gaming experience is within a thread for a current FPGA console that has analog outputs for CRT's and a future FPGA console that will have analog outputs for CRT's. So, CRT's, FPGA's, and/or both are entirely relevant to this conversation. Besides, if you really feel that way that it shouldn't be brought into the discussion then you shouldn't have responded. You could have just let me post my one post about it, moved on, and then wait for the conversation to go in the course that you would prefer.

[mr_me]

Or you could own one lcd display and just tweak the colors to degrade them into whatever you were in the mood for. Other than conversion, scale, and inherent lcd lag there is 0 reason other than nostalgia to prefer crts.

Some people never upgraded to a digital television and still use CRTs. Some graphics were designed for a specific display technology and only display correctly there. There are some graphic effects that by design are not only CRT related but NTSC colour related that get lossed with digital signals.

[KTMRICH]

I like playing on CRT's

 

 

[Gentlegamer]

What model is that Sony? I need one with component.

[KTMRICH]

What model is that Sony? I need one with component.

Don't know the model it was free from a friend. It has s-video. The bottom got messed up while transporting it. I was looking on craigslist for a better one. There are some nice ones for free or dirt cheep. I can look up the model when I get home.

[Jimjans]

Is there anyone else that have problem with the powersupply when the mini is off the supply does a noise that remind me of coilwhine.

[retrorgb]

Is there anyone else that have problem with the powersupply when the mini is off the supply does a noise that remind me of coilwhine.

Someone else had that problem. They emailed Analogue support, who sent them a new PSU.

[funkwad]

Possible bug or minor issue.

 

Getting a pair of small black lines top/bottom on screen, when running analogue RGB out to GSCARTsw, to Framemeister

 

 

My PVM doesn't show this issue.

 

If I run the Analogue in native NES/famicom mode, this issue doesn't occur.

 

Could be something quirky on the resolutions - haven't tried other cores yet

 

[atmn]

Has anyone tested RGB on a Nt mini since the last restock? I received my unit last week and it's performed great over HDMI, but Retro Gaming Cables have been out-of-stock on their SCART cables for the past few weeks as far as I can tell and it'd be good to verify if my console has the analog fault. Postage of the various recommended Monoprice cables to the UK is extremely expensive, but I might have to spend the money it seems.

 

I'm surprised the analog issue hasn't been picked up on by any professional reviews (or maybe it was a very small batch of the consoles that were affected?).

 

If your theory are correct the professional reviewers have consoles from batch 1?

 

 

There's 8 possible combinations on the three lines. Only 2 of them are checked, however.

 

5 10 15

. . . (all 3 lines open) = component

G . . (pin 5 grounded, pins 10/15 open) = composite / s-vid

 

any other combination = RGB. So pin 10 being grounded and 5/15 open will make it output RGB.

 

One of the pentapuses I have grounds 5, 10, and 15 and one of them only grounded 10. Both work fine here.

Kevtris, do you know if it should be caps on the R,G and B signals? (220uF that is), resistors or just nothing at all?

 

The one shipped from retrogamingcables are with caps. Might be messing with the auto-detection thingy on pin 1?

[Tusecsy]

Light guns were designed to work on crts, it is not the fault of lcds that the technologies do not operate the same. And the makers of Bliss Box have actually got a working lightgun prototype for lcd tvs. As for crt effects... let them die. Scanlines don't "improve" an image, you just see less of how bad it is when you cover up literally half the screen. And if you really have that nostalgia craving for seeing half an image scanline generators are a thing and come built into the nt mini and xrgb mini. As far as I'm concerned the only improvements we need to make to lcds are the response time, and to get them to the highest resolution and fps the human eye can detect and then display technology (for screens anyways) will have peaked.

Dumbest post I've half-read in a while. Scanlines are there for a reason, 240p = half the lines of resolution. By filling in the scanlines with additional image you just make things look blocky. For me, they are essential to the experience, smoothing out the harsh edges and making it a lot more pleasant to the eyes. If it weren't for the option in my framemeister and nt mini, I'd probably just use emulators. So speak for yourself, these games were designed with scanlines in mind, not the other way around.

[Tusecsy]

Or you could own one lcd display and just tweak the colors to degrade them into whatever you were in the mood for. Other than conversion, scale, and inherent lcd lag there is 0 reason other than nostalgia to prefer crts.

You do realize that LCD technology is still strictly inferior to CRT when it comes to displaying 240 and 480? It's the nature of pixels vs. tubes. Exactly the same as, as you mention, tube amps vs. digital ones, in the music realm. Or recording to tape vs. digital recording, or filming on actual film vs. digital. There is ZERO REASON to think otherwise, lol.

 

Like a previous poster stated, the NT mini is actually the first time I feel playing these games on an LCD is on a level or superior in certain ways than with a PVM/BVM. Framemeister doesn't quite get there, but it's still a nifty piece of kit.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Tusecsy

[NE146]

I like playing on CRT's, and I like playing on HDTVs. Sure I have preferences (e.g. I prefer CRT for my old consoles) but I am admittedly a scrub as my understanding is limited and pretty much confines me to simply plugging in via: 1) HDMI or 2) composite/component and seeing how it goes So It's amazing to me how much people know about video output, resolutions, scan lines, etc. and how personal they get when it comes to talking about it.

 

On that note my NT Mini is due to arrive today FINALLY. Gonna try it to the new tvs.. gonna try it on the old tvs. And why not!

[retro_fan]

 

This whole thread is about people's preferences taking a step backwards. For similar types of reasons that you can't relate to why I would think it would be kind of neat if someday people used FPGA's to preserve CRT's others couldn't relate to why we would want to use FPGA's to preserve retro consoles. They could say that instead of preserving retro consoles gaming should just be improved, that we should only use modern consoles and other modern gaming technology, there are no good reasons other than nostalgia to play retro games, etc.

 

Anyway, this talk about an ideal gaming experience is within a thread for a current FPGA console that has analog outputs for CRT's and a future FPGA console that will have analog outputs for CRT's. So, CRT's, FPGA's, and/or both are entirely relevant to this conversation. Besides, if you really feel that way that it shouldn't be brought into the discussion then you shouldn't have responded. You could have just let me post my one post about it, moved on, and then wait for the conversation to go in the course that you would prefer.

 

Finally CRT people are speaking up for themselves! Let us not be bullied by those Horribly Demented Media Intruders! But to be honest, I am actually willing to pay more, so that both HDMI fans and CRT fans are happy. It's just great to have a choice with FPGAs between enhancement and preservation. As I have already mentioned my favorite output is composite.

Some people never upgraded to a digital television and still use CRTs. Some graphics were designed for a specific display technology and only display correctly there. There are some graphic effects that by design are not only CRT related but NTSC colour related that get lossed with digital signals.

Exactly, The Case for Composite. It's also worth mentioning here that even emulator users who always had access to the pixel perfect image are degrading it on purpose A Link to the Past: How To Add CRT Filters to 16-Bit Games on PC.

Edited March 13, 2017 by retro_fan

[Laner]

The RGB cables from monoprice are RGBHV; however my monitor only has RGBS. I suppose I could go the SCART route if I needed to, but is there a way to make RGBHV work on my monitor without the need of a converter box of some sort?

[Sneakyturtleegg]

I am a big fan of retrogaming on CRT televisions. But that is just me. Playing old consoles in RGB that were not meant to be is not necessarily better. Dithering was often used on a lot of older games. RGB cannot properly display those dithering effects and breaks the game. I try to use composite or S-Video whenever possible. This is ironic since I just ordered a NT Mini. I'll mess around with the HDMI and see what that is all about.

[Keatah]

I do all my classic computing and retrogaming activities on good quality LCD and OLED displays. Since I grew up in the day of the CRT so to speak, I like the look that they deliver.

 

So I use whatever effects an emulator may offer to slightly "de-tune" its output image and simulate the early old-school look. But not too far back. I do want some extra clarity vs what I had in the mid 1970's.

 

Some scanlines, but not 50%, more like 5%, just a touch of them. A little bit of fuzzies, a little bit of smear, some de-phasing, some color spill. But hold the 4x anti-aliasing and supersampling and crap like hq4x filter or "super eagle" filter, that looks terrible. Those filters are made for early 3D PC graphics hardware. Not modern-day emulation of classic hardware.

[pcfreak324]

I have the second batch of the Nt mini and can use the RGB output without issues on my Sony BVM.

 

The cores are way more polished than those for competing FPGA systems.

 

One user already requested support for the ColecoVision Super Game Module. I second this. Something similar exists for the Sega SG-1000. There were ram expansions released in Taiwan that could be used to play MSX ports (-> more info). It would be great if the cores could be expanded to support these ram expansions, too.

[coderkind]

 

If your theory are correct the professional reviewers have consoles from batch 1?

That's what I'm thinking. Will know soon enough; ordered the Monoprice cables today (the full suite).

[Keatah]

Some people never upgraded to a digital television and still use CRTs. Some graphics were designed for a specific display technology and only display correctly there. There are some graphic effects that by design are not only CRT related but NTSC colour related that get lossed with digital signals.

Ahh yes, here's an example: