thevnaguy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 They are getting close to building a proto of this new controller adapter for the Colecovision AND Colecovision flashback! you will be able to use other controllers with your original ColecoVision and the Flashback! Notice on the diagram there is a thumbwheel circuit, they plan on making their own super action controller as well! I cant want for this! Head over to Edladdin.com! they are also on Facebook as well! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm not sure I understand the diagram. This will be an adaptor with four DB9 controller ports? Where does the spinner fit into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevnaguy Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm not sure I understand the diagram. This will be an adaptor with four DB9 controller ports? Where does the spinner fit into this? They plan on making their own from what I have heard. Yes, four DB9 connectors. Suggest you contact them to get more details 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hi Everyone! I wanted to take an opportunity to introduce this project in more detail now that we have a working prototype for the Seagull CV circuit board. The board features: Controller Inputs (DB9) Atari 2600/7800 Classic Colecovision Flashback Colecovision Sega Genesis Solder Pad/Pin Header Inputs 4 way joystick 2 fire buttons 12 key keypad 2 switch signal (thumbwheel) Console Outputs (DB9) 1982 Colecovision Flashback Colecovision As shown in the photos, you can connect all four controllers to the PCB and send a signal from any stick, fire button (B and C on the Sega), or keypad to both versions of the console, all at the same time The unit requires no external power. Products to Deliver - SOONER 1. "Seagull CV" adapter - this PCB in a small enclosure with membrane keypad 2. "Super CV" controller - following in the style of our "Super 78" arcade controllers - joystick, A & B firebuttons, and membrane keypad 3. Controller/Adapter Kit - board-only for the folks that want to build their own controllers and/or adapters Products to Deliver - LATER 4. "Super Arcade CV" controller - same as above with all four fire buttons and the thumbwheel. This one is not yet a lock! The board was designed to accept signals from two switches ala the original Super Action controller, but we have not yet designed a working prototype of the thumbwheel to drive it. Pricing TBD. At this point we are gathering quotes for milling the adapter enclosure and production of 100 units of the PCB, plus finalizing the artwork. I have a solid quote on the keypad from a company in Hong Kong. After that's complete we will be able to lock down pricing for the three first products that will come from this one circuit board. Funding Unfortunately its already clear that we will not be able to shoulder the whole thing out of pocket like we did the "Seagull 78" adapter and the current line of arcade controllers in 2014. The Seagull 78 was much smaller and easier to build, and the 7800 controllers can be built a few at a time, so they all had much smaller launch costs. Following William Culver's suggestion, I am planning to Kickstart the transition from development to production in order to assess actual market potential and also raise the funds. So far I have spent $2,700 to build the prototype and develop the artwork, but I will need help to build out the minimum 100 units required for a populated board, custom milling of enclosures, etc. I will share the quoted production costs with this group once they are nailed down. The Kickstarter campaign will never get off the ground floor without the support of this community, so I am very eager to hear your questions and receive feedback! In particular, which of the four proposed products are most exciting to you? Help me figure out the most likely path to success. I will be very sad if the Kickstarter fails and I end up with the world's most expensive Coleco adapter! :-) Thanks in advance! Ed Kelly Edladdin Controllers Attachments 2x - PCB Photos 1 - "Seagull CV" Enclosure Sample 2x - "Seagull CV" artwork 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperboy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 That is super sweet!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You have a very nice product, but I do have some comments: 1) The first thing I'm noticing is that if I want to use two Genesis controllers for two-player gaming (for example) I would need to purchase two of your adapters. The footprint of a single adapter seems pretty large, so I would suggest that the enclosures be stackable. 2) The integrated keypad should be useful for the Atari and Genesis connectors, but one thing I've learned from the Telegames Personal Arcade is that having the keypad far away from the controller is annoying. It would be much better to offer a separate keypad device (à la Champ Adaptor) that is compatible with both the Atari and Genesis controllers, and is guaranteed to work with your adaptor. Ideally, such a keypad device would be really small and light, with an extra 6 feet of cord. 3) Regarding your "Super CV" and "Super Arcade CV" controllers, if you want to increase your odds of success on Kickstarter, you should consider offering USB variants of these controllers. Then you'd have a larger audience to draw funding money from, including PC gamers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Although I'll personally support you, I'm not a fan of going to Kickstarter for projects like this. You don't necessarily reach more people that way and then you have to worry about all of the cuts that the parties involved have to take, meaning you''ll have to ask for much more money than you'll actually need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
128Kgames Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Although I'll personally support you, I'm not a fan of going to Kickstarter for projects like this. You don't necessarily reach more people that way and then you have to worry about all of the cuts that the parties involved have to take, meaning you''ll have to ask for much more money than you'll actually need. Like Bill I would most likely support this type of project, but not with Kickstarter or other crowdfunding sources (had a bad Kickstarter experience which was enough to sour me on the whole concept). Pre-orders or pre-pay might be an idea, but then again a lot of us have been burned on these as well. Deposit maybe? (small % of the total cost) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I like it, but don't really care about flashback plugs (seems like keypad and genesis controller only would be much cheaper and satisfy most people?) Could also separately offer a flashback to colecovision adapter and reduce the complexity of this device without alienating the flashback users. Isn't it possible to plug an atari joystick into the coleco input connector already? Also agree USB versions would probably be desired by a significant population, for helping to spread startup costs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You have a very nice product, but I do have some comments: 1) The first thing I'm noticing is that if I want to use two Genesis controllers for two-player gaming (for example) I would need to purchase two of your adapters. The footprint of a single adapter seems pretty large, so I would suggest that the enclosures be stackable. 2) The integrated keypad should be useful for the Atari and Genesis connectors, but one thing I've learned from the Telegames Personal Arcade is that having the keypad far away from the controller is annoying. It would be much better to offer a separate keypad device (à la Champ Adaptor) that is compatible with both the Atari and Genesis controllers, and is guaranteed to work with your adaptor. Ideally, such a keypad device would be really small and light, with an extra 6 feet of cord. 3) Regarding your "Super CV" and "Super Arcade CV" controllers, if you want to increase your odds of success on Kickstarter, you should consider offering USB variants of these controllers. Then you'd have a larger audience to draw funding money from, including PC gamers. Thank you for this feedback! 1. SIZE: The enclosure is really not SO big. Its the width of two Coleco cartridges and only 1.75" (44mm) deeper. We could not make it any smaller without making a weirdly small keypad, and the PCB could not get any smaller while still accommodating 4 different controllers. But with all due respect, the reality is that we are too far down the road to change enclosures. The art and the PCB are both paid for already, and they are sized to fit the case that you see in the photo. :-( 2. KEYPAD: This is a good point! The original plan was to provide the keypad on a separate CX50 style unit, but we decide to make the keypad integral to the adapter so there would be no possibility of the two being separated and the main adapter becoming semi-useless 20 years from now. The other concern in this decision was the extra cost. Adding a second enclosure, cord, DB9 connector, etc, does not help in the mission to keep the sales price as reasonable as possible. Plus we realized that: a) You can simultaneously use all controllers that are plugged into the adapter. So if you have any version of Coleco controller with a keypad (or the Champ keypad), you can have that sitting next to you to serve as your remote keypad. We figured that everyone that would own this adapter would have at least one Coleco controller with a keypad. b) The adapter will come packed with a 6' extension cord that the user will plug onto the output DB9 to select the console of choice (ie: not an attached cord), so the entire adapter will have a 6' range right out of the box. 3. USB: That's a great idea! We have begun investigating the USB controllers as the next offering after the Coleco project was wrapped up, but of course you are right - this would likely vastly improve our chances for success on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would like better controllers for the flashback, even the means to use original controllers on the Flashback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Like Bill I would most likely support this type of project, but not with Kickstarter or other crowdfunding sources (had a bad Kickstarter experience which was enough to sour me on the whole concept). Pre-orders or pre-pay might be an idea, but then again a lot of us have been burned on these as well. Deposit maybe? (small % of the total cost) Although I'll personally support you, I'm not a fan of going to Kickstarter for projects like this. You don't necessarily reach more people that way and then you have to worry about all of the cuts that the parties involved have to take, meaning you''ll have to ask for much more money than you'll actually need. I had no idea there was such a strong feeling against Kickstarter! That is troubling. I am open to the pre-order concept! Having lurked in the Atari 2600 forums for some years, I had concluded that pre-ordering had such a terrible reputation due to failed/vapor projects by other people that this approach would not have much chance for success. Does anyone else care to speak up on willingness to support a pre-order arrangement vs kickstarter? FWIW, Edladdin has the one year of demonstrated ability to build products and fill orders with the 7800 community. The arcade controllers were no great technical achievement, but the Seagull 78 adapters proved we could design, produce, and deliver a device from scratch. With this adapter for the Coleco, we have a working prototype that we could have independently verified. I have already made plans with Mr. Culver of the Colecovisions (and many other) podcasts to test the prototype, so it would be very easy to bring the entire project right to the point where all that remains is to order and build the production run, then begin accepting pre-orders. Would you folks support that approach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I like it, but don't really care about flashback plugs (seems like keypad and genesis controller only would be much cheaper and satisfy most people?) Could also separately offer a flashback to colecovision adapter and reduce the complexity of this device without alienating the flashback users. Isn't it possible to plug an atari joystick into the coleco input connector already? Also agree USB versions would probably be desired by a significant population, for helping to spread startup costs. I would like better controllers for the flashback, even the means to use original controllers on the Flashback. These two posts perfectly illustrate why this unit was designed to be the ultimate Coleco controller, suitable for either version of the console and as many controllers as possible. As ultimate as possible, anyway! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I had no idea there was such a strong feeling against Kickstarter! That is troubling. I am open to the pre-order concept! Having lurked in the Atari 2600 forums for some years, I had concluded that pre-ordering had such a terrible reputation due to failed/vapor projects by other people that this approach would not have much chance for success. Does anyone else care to speak up on willingness to support a pre-order arrangement vs kickstarter? FWIW, Edladdin has the one year of demonstrated ability to build products and fill orders with the 7800 community. The arcade controllers were no great technical achievement, but the Seagull 78 adapters proved we could design, produce, and deliver a device from scratch. I have nothing against Kickstarter. I've personally supported several dozen projects on there, and I've only been screwed a handful of times (I'm much more careful now, but I still do it when I'm reasonably satisfied that something will be delivered). Anyway, the reason why I'm against Kickstarter in this SPECIFIC instance is that you're offering a very particular niche product, i.e., one that appeals EXCLUSIVELY to ColecoVision or Adam owners. To my mind, you'd reach the vast majority of active ColecoVision and Adam users here on AtariAge, Facebook, and various other retrogaming Websites because that's where the users are. In other words, Kickstarter will not magically allow to you reach a notably higher percentage of active ColecoVision and Adam users. With that in mind, while it does offer a way to have a formal pre-order mechanism, you'll also have a delay getting your money, Kickstarter will take a percentage of the funds you receive, etc. So essentially while it does have some minor advantages, I think since it can't offer the significant advantage of reaching a larger audience and there is additional overhead involved, I believe it's not your best option. In my opinion, if you do a traditional pre-order period on the usual retrogaming Websites and promise to deliver within three months, I think that should accomplish the same goals with the benefit of you getting all of the money (sans any payment processing fees, say from Paypal, which are write-offs anyway). Edited October 23, 2015 by Bill Loguidice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Isn't it possible to plug an atari joystick into the coleco input connector already? Without a keypad there's no way to get past the difficulty selection screen on most games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Will it be possible to connect 2 flashback controllers into it and connect both connections to the original CV? Or is it one/single player connection? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Will it be possible to connect 2 flashback controllers into it and connect both connections to the original CV? Or is it one/single player connection? No. The original CV and flashback CV receive totally different controller signals, it turns out. And while you could have both consoles connected as shown in the photo, all signals go through a central microprocessor. So if you push "up" on any of the four controllers, the "up" signal is delivered to both consoles at the same time. Its not at all "player 1 and player 2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Have 2 of your CV Adapters been hooked up to the same CV at the same time to insure there are no power issues? I personally don't see the need for a second CV Adapter for Player 2 for my own needs, but there are a lot of people that might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Without a keypad there's no way to get past the difficulty selection screen on most games. Oh... no, I meant that if I had an Atari joystick connected to the Colecovision input on your device, wouldn't your keypad still work? For example, in a real colecovision, you can connect an atari joystick to player one and keep your Coleco joystick connected to player 2 and for many games use the keypad on the 2nd joystick to start games, and continue to use the atari joystick in port one to control up,down,left,right for your one-player game. This demonstrates that it's only the keypad function that is missing when plugging an atari joystick into a regular colecovision port. In practice, SOME Genesis controllers can be connected and function property this way, but some don't work. So, it seems maybe you could eliminate the "Atari" connector, potentially lowering your cost. But maybe I don't understand something and you can't do that. Now, the REAL solution for me would be to be able to use a Genesis controller (of which there are many types, they are plentiful, and most are more comfortable than the colecovision joystick) with a keypad, as a complete replacement for my Colecovision controller. My ideal solution would be your 7800 joystick with a keypad on it near the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannacek Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Now, the REAL solution for me would be to be able to use a Genesis controller (of which there are many types, they are plentiful, and most are more comfortable than the colecovision joystick) with a keypad, as a complete replacement for my Colecovision controller. My ideal solution would be your 7800 joystick with a keypad on it near the stick. This adapter sounds like a cool thing. It sounds like what you want is something I have in my eBay store. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-Genesis-Mod-Controller-Joystick-with-Pass-Thru-for-ColecoVision-/301683764934 It's a Sega Genesis controller modded for ColecoVision. It has a connector to plug in a standard ColecoVision controller, so you can use the keypad of a standard ColecoVision controller with the Genesis controller modded for ColecoVision. I also sell a lot of other Nintendo and Sega controllers modded for ColecoVision and other consoles. You can check out my eBay store to see what I have. http://stores.ebay.com/Video-Game-Controller-Mods/ColecoVision-/_i.html?_fsub=1119696919 Edited October 24, 2015 by Hannacek 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 This adapter sounds like a cool thing. It sounds like what you want is something I have in my eBay store. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEGA-Genesis-Mod-Controller-Joystick-with-Pass-Thru-for-ColecoVision-/301683764934 It's a Sega Genesis controller modded for ColecoVision. It has a connector to plug in a standard ColecoVision controller, so you can use the keypad of a standard ColecoVision controller with the Genesis controller modded for ColecoVision. I also sell a lot of other Nintendo and Sega controllers modded for ColecoVision and other consoles. You can check out my eBay store to see what I have. http://stores.ebay.com/Video-Game-Controller-Mods/ColecoVision-/_i.html?_fsub=1119696919 This is a really nice solution if what you really want is a classic Sega gamepad, and at a price that I will not be able to touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Oh... no, I meant that if I had an Atari joystick connected to the Colecovision input on your device, wouldn't your keypad still work? For example, in a real colecovision, you can connect an atari joystick to player one and keep your Coleco joystick connected to player 2 and for many games use the keypad on the 2nd joystick to start games, and continue to use the atari joystick in port one to control up,down,left,right for your one-player game. This demonstrates that it's only the keypad function that is missing when plugging an atari joystick into a regular colecovision port. In practice, SOME Genesis controllers can be connected and function property this way, but some don't work. So, it seems maybe you could eliminate the "Atari" connector, potentially lowering your cost. But maybe I don't understand something and you can't do that. Now, the REAL solution for me would be to be able to use a Genesis controller (of which there are many types, they are plentiful, and most are more comfortable than the colecovision joystick) with a keypad, as a complete replacement for my Colecovision controller. My ideal solution would be your 7800 joystick with a keypad on it near the stick. I didnt know about the two port Atari/Coleco solution! That's a cool idea. I just tried plugging a Seagull 78 adapter (allows two-button use of any Genesis controller with 7800 console) with Sega gamepad into P1 port and classic Coleco controller into P2 and that did NOT work. Too bad! That would have been a really elegant and very inexpensive solution for the Sega controller fans. ---------- FWIW, the "Atari" port on the Seagull CV is actually designed toward the 7800, not the 2600. The significance is that you are adding two button Atari controls for those Coleco games that actually require A-B support. Obviously no one is going to dig out their cherished Pro-Line controller... The real point of that input path is so that anyone who owns an Edladdin Super or Supreme arcade controller is going to be able to use it with this adapter. Not the least of which, me! :-) A full fledged Coleco dedicated arcade controller with its own keypad is definitely part of the near-term plan! The PCB has solder pads at the ready for an arcade joystick and the two fire buttons. For that matter, buttons 3 and 4 on the Super Action are actually keypad buttons * and 2, so I can deliver everything but the thumbwheel right out of the gate. The PCB does have signal inputs for the thumbwheel, but we have not sourced and tested one in action. How many games actually use the thumbwheel? Is there a list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 How many games actually use the thumbwheel? Is there a list? Why yes there is in fact. http://cvaddict.com/list.php?filter=5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edladdin Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Why yes there is in fact. http://cvaddict.com/list.php?filter=5 Nice! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I make these Colecovision arcade controllers. I don't sell many for some reason. It supports 4 buttons and keypad. I also make a 4-way gate for games like Pac-Man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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