+Nathan Strum Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Gangster Alley What about paddle games? Super Breakout and the like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Gangster Alley What about paddle games? Super Breakout and the like? What would be the benefit? There is no 2nd dimension where you need a trackball. However, it would make sense to convert joystick games into paddle games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Paddle games tend to be a bit twitchy. So I wonder if a Trak-Ball could improve the feel of the control. Or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Probably it is easier to remove that twitchy feeling (e.g. by averaging over some frames). Another idea for a trackball game: Ixion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Mentioned Gangster Alley on the first page. Think that would help the playability of that game tremendously. On the subject of paddles though, any chance Off The Wall could ever be converted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) On the subject of paddles though, any chance Off The Wall could ever be converted? Maybe. One should start a separate topic for those potential conversions. Edited November 1, 2015 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Crossbow is begging for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Playing Colony 7 right now, seems like that might be a little more fun if it were a Trak-ball game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Playing Colony 7 right now, seems like that might be a little more fun if it were a Trak-ball game. True. But first I have to check what the author (Manuel) thinks about that. Same for the other homebrews. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Crossbow is begging for it. Agreed. Any light gun game is begging for Trak-Ball conversion especially due to the fact that modern LCD/LED TVs won't work with the old light guns. As for paddle games, let us remember that most "paddle games" - or "driving controller games" - for the 5200 support the Trak-Ball. Super Breakout, the unreleased 5200 version of Warlords, Pole Position, etc. Heck, Kaboom probably works with it as well. Which reminds me, I should try that out sometime. Galaxian works pretty well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Let's see, two dimensional movement...I see Marble Craze was already posted. That's the one I was thinking of. How about Outlaw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Let's see, two dimensional movement... I see Marble Craze was already posted. That's the one I was thinking of. How about Outlaw? I like that idea! Although it might be tricky for bouncing shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Let's see, two dimensional movement... I see Marble Craze was already posted. That's the one I was thinking of. I talked to Paul about Marble Craze. He is OK for trying to do a trackball conversion (incl. a cart release), hoping that the controls might become easier. Yesterday I looked at the kernel. It is HUGE (unrolled to 13 lines!) and still barely has enough free time to even read the paddles for the 1st player. That's why a second kernel of the same size exists, just for reading the paddles of the 2nd player. Trackball decoding would require much more time than I have (~50 cycles/13 scanlines, split into 5 segments) inside the kernel. So I need a different approach. Probably I will just read the input and store it into a buffer inside the kernel. And decode the buffer outside. Also I think, unlike a rather coarse point and click game like Missile Command, missing a single trackball change might be severely hamper the fine control required for this game. So, I came up with the idea of reading the trackball just 4 times per frame (that's the free RAM I have found so far), about every 64 scan lines (even outside the kernel). That way, no slow movement get's missed, but only until a certain speed. When you exceed speed limit, more than one change might happen between two reads. And then my code may (I might be able to do some error correction) not be able to recognize this correctly and controls will become bad. Are the any Marble Craze "experts" out there can give me some feedback already or who can test the game for me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Has Space Invaders been brought up yet? Paddle use like Astroblast would be cool too. Either would be nice to whip your ship around quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78001987 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Time Pilot might be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I am no Marble Craze expert, but I own the cartridge and I like it. I can play both and give my comparison opinion. I talked to Paul about Marble Craze. He is OK for trying to do a trackball conversion (incl. a cart release), hoping that the controls might become easier.Yesterday I looked at the kernel. It is HUGE (unrolled to 13 lines!) and still barely has enough free time to even read the paddles for the 1st player. That's why a second kernel of the same size exists, just for reading the paddles of the 2nd player. Trackball decoding would require much more time than I have (~50 cycles/13 scanlines, split into 5 segments) inside the kernel. So I need a different approach. Probably I will just read the input and store it into a buffer inside the kernel. And decode the buffer outside. Also I think, unlike a rather coarse point and click game like Missile Command, missing a single trackball change might be severely hamper the fine control required for this game. So, I came up with the idea of reading the trackball just 4 times per frame (that's the free RAM I have found so far), about every 64 scan lines (even outside the kernel). That way, no slow movement get's missed, but only until a certain speed. When you exceed speed limit, more than one change might happen between two reads. And then my code may (I might be able to do some error correction) not be able to recognize this correctly and controls will become bad. Are the any Marble Craze "experts" out there can give me some feedback already or who can test the game for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Has Space Invaders been brought up yet? Paddle use like Astroblast would be cool too. Either would be nice to whip your ship around quickly. Single axis games like Space Invaders and Galaxian might as well use paddles instead of trackball. Even though the originals used a joystick, I think it would be fun with a paddle. Zip across the screen at warp speed so I don't have to outrun the mothership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I am no Marble Craze expert, but I own the cartridge and I like it. I can play both and give my comparison opinion. Thanks for the offer. I wrote some tests for the approach I described above (just 4 equally spaced samples/frame). With a CX80 this would allow up to 7 changes per frame. But my experiments on real hardware clearly show, that the sampling rate is way too low. So Marble Craze seems to be a tough beast and it may take a while until I come up with a working solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Single axis games like Space Invaders and Galaxian might as well use paddles instead of trackball. Even though the originals used a joystick, I think it would be fun with a paddle. Zip across the screen at warp speed so I don't have to outrun the mothership. I agree but 5200 Galaxian supports the Trak-Ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I agree but 5200 Galaxian supports the Trak-Ball. Because there was no native rotary paddle controller for the 5200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I agree but 5200 Galaxian supports the Trak-Ball. I know that the 5200 Trak-Ball emulates the analog joystick so it seems like every game should "support" the Trak-Ball. It's really like playing with a self-centering analog joystick. Only in this case, you have to spin the ball to keep the "joystick" off center instead of just applying force to the stick. If I recall correctly, Galaxian is coded to uniquely handle that analog input though. Instead of trying to match the position indicated by the joystick, it just moves in the direction the joystick is pushed as if you were playing with a digital joystick. Returning to center results in no motion at all. If the player is sitting on the left side of the screen, it will sit there until you push the joystick to the right or spin the ball to the right. I remember Galaxian being a special case when I built a couple of 5200 controllers from scratch. It actually has two speeds of motion. Pushing the joystick a little bit made the player move at one speed, pushing the stick farther made the player move faster in that direction. That was a test some people gave me to see if I was hitting full range with my analog joystick. Disclaimer: It's been years since I had my 5200 fired up so my memory could be playing tricks on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Because there was no native paddle controller for the 5200. Weren't the joysticks essentially two-axis paddles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Weren't the joysticks essentially two-axis paddles? Rotary! You knew what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Not quite on topic, but I think it would be fun to see a Skee-Ball game and/or maybe a bowling game that uses the trackball controller. As a controller, the trackball is uniquely able to impart both speed and direction. It might not be possible to pull off a sufficently detailed first person perspective with the 2600, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Is there a "pong" style game for the 2600 that allows two-dimensional movement on the court? Charging the ball could impart more energy to the hit? I was playing some Channel F game the other day that allowed that sort of movement. Racquetball? Activision Tennis? Realsports Tennis? Activision Boxing? Ice Hockey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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