Could Road Rash (3DO) be ported to the Jaguar?

[VladR]

It has the look of the game "True Crime: Streets of LA"

Hey Walter ! Long time no see .

 

The look will keep changing during development. This is just the first set of textures (just something to work with for the PoC (Proof of Concept)).

 

 

I'm finally giving your jag a run for its money

 

Everybody : Walter is the guy who loaned me his own jaguar, so I could do some engine development for jag. If it wasn't for him, no RR PoC would ever see the light of day. RESPECT

[+CyranoJ]

If it wasn't for JiFFI you wouldn't have a complete build chain....

[VladR]

T+16 hrs:

- Imported Bike,SkyBox, Props (hydrant/sign) into engine

- Assigned unique 3D worldpos to the props

- The sprites above are being scaled appropriately

 

 

I've sent the build to PlaysWithWolves and he's got my blessing to record a video (I believe from VJ) and upload it somewhere to address the endless accusations of this PoC not being real.

He's also on East Coast, and has probably just gone to bed an hour ago or so, so it's most probably going to be recorded/uploaded later on Monday.

 

While there are going to be several visual artifacts in the video, I am indeed happy with the progress made within just one weekend.

 

While I do not expect to have much time during week for coding, I should be able to at least turn on double buffering (to avoid the current flicker) and perhaps address the artifact of clipped textures at the edges.

 

The great plan for next weekend is to introduce road animation (curves) and adjust the 3D city mesh accordingly.

[+CyranoJ]

I've sent the build to PlaysWithWolves and he's got my blessing to record a video (I believe from VJ) and upload it somewhere to address the endless accusations of this PoC not being real.

He's also on East Coast, and has probably just gone to bed an hour ago or so, so it's most probably going to be recorded/uploaded later on Monday.

You've not been accused of that once, you seem to have reading comprehension issues.

 

You have been accused of:

• Promising the world.
• Delivering nothing.
• Being a douche.

None of which anything above will dispute.

 

A binary would be nice because the last time you claimed 'much FPS' (HERO) it ran like shit.

 

It's also funny that you choose to do this on AtariAge, a forum you constantly disparage, and not on TXGs hotbed of development. Lover's tiff? Or is it that you can't get the attention you so badly crave over there?

 

BTW, much thanks for continuing to use tools and (probably) source released by Reboot/Jagware while constantly insulting said people. Point 3, set and match. Troll on, Gorf Vlarse...

Edited November 30, 2015 by CyranoJ

[Otto1980]

rr08.gif

 

:-o

 

its so unbelivable 64 Bitish

you are the master of Jagcoding

 

may the chair be with you

Edited November 30, 2015 by Otto1980

[PlaysWithWolves]

I'll upload a video nearly as soon as Vlad realizes he forgot to attach the file.

I, too, would like to see him upload a binary though that's his prerogative.

[VladR]

I'll upload a video nearly as soon as Vlad realizes he forgot to attach the file.

I, too, would like to see him upload a binary though that's his prerogative.

Just woke up. I could swear I checked that, but it was 1am and I was burnt out.

 

Well, I just resent it with the attachments

 

Apologies.

[VladR]

 

:-o

 

its so unbelivable 64 Bitish

you are the master of Jagcoding

 

may the chair be with you

ROFL

 

Irony and jokes aside, I'm also just another Armchair expert, remember ?

 

Don't forget, screenshot looks OK, but in movement it will flicker, which the bitching crowd will jump on right away, for sure

 

 

Then again, it was just one weekend of work.

 

I merely humbly ask anyone who starts bitching about it to try and do better within one weekend

[PlaysWithWolves]

Win10's video capture gave me some grief this AM (it either wouldn't capture the sprites, or would do it all in low-resolution). I think this version got it correctly. Like Vlad mentioned, there's screen flicker. Also related issues with ghosting until the screen refreshes.

 

Each building texture is 64x128. Recorded in VJ "x1" mode:

 

https://youtu.be/3mPhEt0WkmI

Edited November 30, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves

[doctorclu]

Looks like it is coming along.

[Bill Loguidice]

Much like with the Hero 3D engine, I still get no sense of how this would translate to an actual game (let alone how much performance will drop once actual gameplay elements are in place), but I appreciate the effort so far.

[VladR]

Much like with the Hero 3D engine, I still get no sense of how this would translate to an actual game (let alone how much performance will drop once actual gameplay elements are in place), but I appreciate the effort so far.

Of course, there is still a lot of effort to get it to playable state. I do not dispute that at all !

 

This is more like a pre-pre-pre-alpha - hence why we call it Proof Of Concept. After all, I only spent 2 days working on this, so if someone expected a full-blown game, despite me mentioning about 15 times that I also wonder how far can I get in a weekend (considering I never in my life coded anything like a racing game), that is their problem

 

The way it will eventually translate into the game is this:

1. The city is actually a collection of 3D meshes (separately left and right side).

- This is generated procedurally - e.g. in a code, so I do not need to engage an artist if we decide to change e.g. 37th building on right side. Another advantage is that once I include random generator, the City could be different each time you run the game.

- For the game to be a game, you need environment, and the procedural city generation provides that.

 

2. The city mesh "follows" the road. The road, right now, is just a straight line - hence buildings are laid down just in a straight line.

- Well, you need the buildings to be by the road, so I guess it's kinda given it's a necessary feature of the game.

- Next weekend, when I get to implementing curves (and eventually hills - though hills won't probably make it to next weekend's To-Do List)

 

3. The props (hydrant/trees/sign) also "follow" the road - e.g. they are straight line right now

- Props also each have their own unique 3D position in the world (just like buildings).

- They merely provide a "visual fluff", but are expected in racing games, so I believe they translate directly to the game itself.

 

4. The Bike

- Well, it's a bike-racing genre, so it should be obvious how the sprite of biker translates to the game ?

 

Simply said, all of the above provide the necessary foundation to get to some interactive stuff - e.g. input and AI.

[VladR]

(let alone how much performance will drop once actual gameplay elements are in place), but I appreciate the effort so far.

The performance of this Proof of Concept largely depends if I get it to Phase 2 - e.g. port the code to GPU/DSP. Like I said plenty times in past, I am polishing the algorithms in C to get maximum out of the 68k. I know I haven't yet submitted a 60-fps video of the HERO 3D, but nobody though it would be even remotely possible to get 60 fps in 3D with textures under C. Once I move those routines to GPU, we can bump up the visuals a notch. If I switched to GPU at time when HERO was doing 15 fps, I would never have so fast algorithms. I would never come up with much faster line algorithm than Bresenham (and plenty other tricks) that got me to 60 FPS at HERO. Of course, RR is not HERO (with strafing camera), so it would be ridiculous to expect 60 fps there in C.

 

 

Phase 1 (eventually, a playable track with opponent(s)) means code from slow C running on a very slow 68k (with Blitter - assisted rendering).

 

What target framerate I can get of the 68k for RR, I do not know yet and I am not promising anything (despite certain sub-8-bit individuals non-stop claiming otherwise ).

 

But I would personally consider it a huge achievement if Phase 1 (C code on 68k + Blitter) results in a framerate at least same as SuperCross 3D. Then it should not need a genius to understand that moving the code to GPU/DSP should bump the framerate up a lot.

[VladR]

Win10's video capture gave me some grief this AM (it either wouldn't capture the sprites, or would do it all in low-resolution). I think this version got it correctly. Like Vlad mentioned, there's screen flicker. Also related issues with ghosting until the screen refreshes.

 

Each building texture is 64x128. Recorded in VJ "x1" mode:

Thank you for capturing the video !

 

CJ - go on ! Good Dog ! Tear it to pieces ! Explain how this PoC does not exist (and never existed) and how you could do the same on Atari ST in 25 fps in a weekend

[Albert]

CJ - go on ! Good Dog ! Tear it to pieces ! Explain how this PoC does not exist (and never existed) and how you could do the same on Atari ST in 25 fps in a weekend

Did you even read my post above? Do you want to get kicked out of this thread? While not insults, per se, you are certainly trying to bait CJ into an argument, so stop it.

 

..Al

[VladR]

Did you even read my post above? Do you want to get kicked out of this thread? While not insults, per se, you are certainly trying to bait CJ into an argument, so stop it.

 

..Al

1. There is no post above. You must have mixed the threads.

 

2. So CJ is allowed to keep badmouthing me in page-long posts and he is backed by the admins. FairPlay by AA. Got It !

 

3. Thanks for the threats !

[Rick Dangerous]

Oh man.... lets please not get this thread locked

 

I understand the grievances, but lets try to be positive all around and see what comes to fruition.

[Albert]

1. There is no post above. You must have mixed the threads.

You're right, it was another thread, but I'll post it here for everyone. Stop with the insults at one another. Please discuss the technical aspects of developing this project without the mudslinging.

 

2. So CJ is allowed to keep badmouthing me in page-long posts and he is backed by the admins. FairPlay by AA. Got It !

You haven't been a saint here yourself, such as your posts laden with obscenities attacking others (and protecting such a post with spoiler tags does not make it okay). Stop it now.

 

..Al

[Isgoed]

Oh man.... lets please not get this thread locked

 

I understand the grievances, but lets try to be positive all around and see what comes to fruition.

 

Agreed!

[sd32]

Glad to see this project moving forward. For a weekends worth of work, seems to be coming along nicely.

[VladR]

You're right, it was another thread, but I'll post it here for everyone. Stop with the insults at one another. Please discuss the technical aspects of developing this project without the mudslinging.

 

 

You haven't been a saint here yourself, such as your posts laden with obscenities attacking others (and protecting such a post with spoiler tags does not make it okay). Stop it now.

 

..Al

Yes, I haven't been saint here. When provoked, I am quite an asshole. I never argued that !

 

What do you mean by 'obscenities' ? You mean that different take on the bathroom frame joke ? Come on ! They have been making fun of that bathroom door for like 2 weeks ! It was very annoying. You gotta admit my 'bathroom frame' version was fresh and unexpected, but funny nonetheless. Poor shr-3rg

 

I do, however, fully 100% agree with the 'stop it now'. Can you ask CJ to do the same ? Not asking to bury the war hatchet. Merely postpone for later

[sh3-rg]

Win10's video capture gave me some grief this AM (it either wouldn't capture the sprites, or would do it all in low-resolution). I think this version got it correctly. Like Vlad mentioned, there's screen flicker. Also related issues with ghosting until the screen refreshes.

 

Each building texture is 64x128. Recorded in VJ "x1" mode:

 

Did that capture correctly? Does win10 support 60fps capture at all, that video appears to be a standard 480P 30fps yt video - no options for 60. It seemed to pull VJ down to into the 50s then 40s at regular intervals - what spec is your PC? Not that it would offer anything more meaningful, but if it's a 7 or 8 year old laptop maybe that's the issue?

 

 

As is, that video only raises questions. It unfortunately offers nothing meaningful to gauge what it really is and therefore prove/disprove any of the claims previously made. Dragging VJ into the 40s on an unknown spec PC, drawing to the screen without clearing it except once about every 60 frames and then having the sprite flicker and the screen tear, no z-sorting, weird clipping/distortion... just left thinking wtf am I even watching and more importantly why?

 

ps, PWW, are you Carl's bro? :0)

 

 

You gotta admit my 'bathroom frame' version was fresh and unexpected, but funny nonetheless. Poor shr-3rg

yeah... about that...

 

I am quite an asshole.

[VladR]

 

As is, that video only raises questions. It unfortunately offers nothing meaningful to gauge what it really is and therefore prove/disprove any of the claims previously made. Dragging VJ into the 40s on an unknown spec PC, drawing to the screen without clearing it except once about every 60 frames and then having the sprite flicker and the screen tear, no z-sorting, weird clipping/distortion... just left thinking wtf am I even watching and more importantly why?

I've only mentioned it about 15 times so far, so let's go over it once again and perhaps it will stick this time ?

 

The PoC after a weekend WAS NOT supposed to confirm RR in 24 FPS on jag is doable. That would be Stage 2 (GPU+DSP).

 

I believe I got quite far in a weekend and if you disagree - why don't you fire up rBasic and whip up some RR prototype with 3D world and textures ? Oh wait, CJ does not know how to code fast 3D, he only pushes little few 2D bitmaps around

 

 

Anyone is free to dust off their own 3D engine on jag and try to do better than I did in a weekend. I would actually welcome a challenger as it would motivate me to work better and more.

 

 

Because I gotta admit, i did not really put too many hours this weekend. About 8 hrs each day, not a whole lot - I was kinda lazy, I admit

[+CyranoJ]

I've only mentioned it about 15 times so far, so let's go over it once again and perhaps it will stick this time ?

 

The PoC after a weekend WAS NOT supposed to confirm RR in 24 FPS on jag is doable. That would be Stage 2 (GPU+DSP).

 

I believe I got quite far in a weekend and if you disagree - why don't you fire up rBasic and whip up some RR prototype with 3D world and textures ? Oh wait, CJ does not know how to code fast 3D, he only pushes little few 2D bitmaps around

 

 

Anyone is free to dust off their own 3D engine on jag and try to do better than I did in a weekend. I would actually welcome a challenger as it would motivate me to work better and more.

 

 

Because I gotta admit, i did not really put too many hours this weekend. About 8 hrs each day, not a whole lot - I was kinda lazy, I admit

 

Yeah, CJ completes projects and doesn't bullshit people, you know how great that feels? No, didn't think so. At least when I port a game you can play it

 

Vast world of difference between 'not knowing how' and 'couldn't give a shit about on underpowered hardware' - BTW, did you not read what Albert said above?

 

PS. I wouldn't really be taking the piss out of rB+ if i were you. How is VRBasic coming along? Anyone else making, oh you know, real games, using it?

Edited November 30, 2015 by CyranoJ

[VladR]

 

Yeah, CJ completes projects and doesn't bullshit people, you know how great that feels? No, didn't think so. At least when I port a game you can play it

 

Vast world of difference between 'not knowing how' and 'couldn't give a shit about on underpowered hardware' - BTW, did you not read what Albert said above?

 

PS. I wouldn't really be taking the piss out of rB+ if i were you. How is VRBasic coming along? Anyone else making, oh you know, real games, using it?

 

1. Of course the game you 'port' is fully playable. You are not recreating the game from scratch, merely hooking system calls from one platform to another (give or take). The game has already been coded on a platform that is more than a magnitude slower, so it's not a miracle jag can handle it.

 

2. I'm playing nice, I believe. No insults, or anything.

 

3. VRBasic is on hold. I'm actually glad you did release rBasic first. I certainly would no like the game that are coming out of rBasic to bear the name of VRBasic, so this actually worked for me very good that you released it into the wild first. Eventually, I will get back to it. But there is no real push for now.