Could Road Rash (3DO) be ported to the Jaguar?

[+CyranoJ]

 

I will play along nicely, as I am actually looking forward to more work in progress here.

 

I got my Jag in 94, and my PSX in 96. The one thing I noticed, is that many Jag games, while having really low FPS in 3D, actually had better perspective correction on the textures. I noticed this in your video. The textures seemed good. But, when the buildings were getting ready to leave the visible screen area, they did a weird bend and seemed to drop off, rather than smoothly go off screen. Is this just an artifact of not having the double buffering / screen clearing in place?

 

No, it's a math error. Fixing it = less fps. Screen clearing = less fps. Vsync = less fps. Adding audio = less fps. Adding AI = less fps. Using real hardware = less fps.

Edited December 2, 2015 by CyranoJ

[VladR]

 

No, it's a math error. Fixing it = less fps.

No, you are completely wrong, as the reasons behind that artifact lie in the internal addressing mechanisms of Blitter and it has nothing to do with 'math error'.

 

 

However, I can't say I mind that you are embarassing yourself with your profound lack of knowledge on Blitter internals, so by all means - continue

[+CyranoJ]

No, you are completely wrong, as the reasons behind that artifact lie in the internal addressing mechanisms of Blitter and it has nothing to do with 'math error'.

 

 

However, I can't say I mind that you are embarassing yourself with your profound lack of knowledge on Blitter internals, so by all means - continue

 

Don't embarrass yourself further dude.

You are taking the endpoint for where the polygon would be outside the screen, not where it would be along the line at the point of intersection with the edge of the screen, and then chopping, per line, through the texture per pixel. And here we all thought you knew the math... but what do I know, I just push sprites

Vladr vladr vladr vladr? Vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr, vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr.

 

Vladr vladr vladr vladr; vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr vladr, vladr, vladr, vladr vladr vladr.

 

Vladr, vladr vladr? Vladr!

 

You guys are welcome to this thread, the ones who know whats going on can see...

 

The ones who can't and fall for it are his intended targets. Enjoy the swing, I hear you can get quite a pendulous momentum going.

Edited December 2, 2015 by CyranoJ

[VladR]

You are taking the endpoint for where the polygon would be outside the screen, not where it would be along the line at the point of intersection with the edge of the screen, and then chopping, per line, through the texture per pixel. And here we all thought you knew the math... but what do I know, I just push sprites

 

You guys are welcome to this thread, the ones who know whats going on can see...

 

The ones who can't and fall for it are his intended targets. Enjoy the swing, I hear you can get quite a pendulous momentum going.

ROFLMAO

 

You - most clearly - have no idea how 3D texturing is done on jag, let alone how I am computing it.

 

 

This is a stand-up comedy night ! We have a 2D guy who never wrote a 3D engine, trying to 'explain' how is it done to a guy who wrote 3D engines for about 10 different HW platforms. Do not miss !

 

If you still remember, it's the same guy who said that doing 3D on jag in C would result in a framerate of 'frame per minute', so this is going to be pure gold tonight ! Fee - $200 (not including wine bottle).

[+madman]

VladR, why don't you just go and work on this PoC or port or whatever it will be instead of constantly posting about it seeking attention? Seriously you've posted more about this than the guys who ported and RELEASED Another World. And they actually ported a full game. It seems your time would be better spent coding than arguing.

[VladR]

Yes, my time would be better spent coding than arguing but if you can't keep CJ on the leash, why should I just let him keep spreading misinformations ?

 

I don't care for attention at all, but I am not just going to let CJ keep talking nonsense about things he has no idea about.

 

It's going to be 10pm, gotta go to sleep, wasted good concentration on fighting nonsense instead of coding new features.

 

Which, I believe is exactly what CJ wanted. A great evening for Atari community, for sure !

[+madman]

Put him on ignore if you don't like what he's saying. I have no horse in this race, I don't know either of you, but if you intend to prove him wrong, do so.

[PlaysWithWolves]

Put him on ignore if you don't like what he's saying. I have no horse in this race, I don't know either of you, but if you intend to prove him wrong, do so.

[+CyranoJ]

Yep, clearly I don't want any progress..

 

That's why there's a free API, a free BASIC, several people using these to enable their dreams of making Jaguar software, an ass-load of game ports, a bunch of fully finished projects, utilities, encryption tools and more source than Atari themselves released.

 

Compared to what, exactly, Vladr. What have you done?

 

Yeah, thought so.

 

I'd love to see him prove me wrong. Can't see it happening, but it would be nice none the less. Either way, he'll still have been a prick about it all.

Edited December 2, 2015 by CyranoJ

[Austin]

VladR, why don't you just go and work on this PoC or port or whatever it will be instead of constantly posting about it seeking attention? Seriously you've posted more about this than the guys who ported and RELEASED Another World. And they actually ported a full game. It seems your time would be better spent coding than arguing.

 

No, he'd rather get involved with the bickering so he can later complain he "lost multiple hours of progress because of some fucking imbeciles." Sounds like a personal problem to me.

 

Bahahaha... Oh, wait..

 

 

It's going to be 10pm, gotta go to sleep, wasted good concentration on fighting nonsense instead of coding new features.

[VladR]

Seriously you've posted more about this than the guys who ported and RELEASED Another World. And they actually ported a full game.

I am NOT PORTING.

I do NOT have source code or art assets from RR. Nothing.

 

So your comparison to the port of Another World is completely nonsensical.

 

I am coding everything from scratch.

 

If you can't see the difference in that, why are you trying to argue ?

[+CyranoJ]

I am NOT PORTING.

I do NOT have source code or art assets from RR. Nothing.

 

So your comparison to the port of Another World is completely nonsensical.

 

I am coding everything from scratch.

 

If you can't see the difference in that, why are you trying to argue ?

 

He's right there - he has nothing.

[JagChris]

 

Yeah he is. But how come that rule only applies to those who have to put up with CJ/Reboot? If it's vice versa the other party gets warned and banned from threads. Awesome.

Edited December 2, 2015 by JagChris

[+madman]

I am NOT PORTING.

I do NOT have source code or art assets from RR. Nothing.

 

So your comparison to the port of Another World is completely nonsensical.

 

I am coding everything from scratch.

 

If you can't see the difference in that, why are you trying to argue ?

What makes you think I don't know the difference between porting and coding from scratch? In fact, earlier in this exact thread I believe I discussed this exact concept when I talked about how it's not feasible for a single person to do the work of the entire team that made RR on the 3DO.

[PlaysWithWolves]

 

Yeah he is. But how come that rule only applies to those who have to put up with CJ/Reboot? If it's vice versa the other party gets warned and banned from threads. Awesome.

 

I think madman was responding to VladR's post which said he (Vlad) wasted a lot of time replying that in turn took away from his time coding. If that's the problem, Vlad should just ignore CJ (or whomever) and prove him wrong by making the demo better. A little less talk; a lot more action.

 

[Austin]

 

I think madman was responding to VladR's post which said he (Vlad) wasted a lot of time replying that in turn took away from his time coding. If that's the problem, Vlad should just ignore CJ (or whomever) and prove him wrong by making the demo better. A little less talk; a lot more action.

 

Exactly. The only person stopping him from focusing on his project is himself.

 

(On a side note, I am really surprised this thread was unlocked).

[+Sauron]

*yawn* Another day, another flamewar. I should go back to hibernating.

[Otto1980]

i see paralells to common conflicts

extremists, rebells, "officials", externals

flaming and blaming

 

why not let each have a peacefull day

let the guy do what he wants.. maybe he manages to show a RROR (roadrashonrails) port

 

kisses go out to all.. (one extra to cyranoily)

 

[sh3-rg]

Are you this petty all the time, or just in this thread?

I don't see it as being petty. The difference between Virtual Jaguar output vs Jaguar hardware can be quite drastic, there's more than enough reason to insist on doing things in a meaningful manner, especially when someone is shining the spot-light down on themselves and making lofty claims. When it's simply a matter of taking advantage of the setups many users here have, even more so. You have a gaming-spec PC running VJ - as much as your video does show regarding what he created in one weekend (a mere 16 hours!), from a technical perspective, the video has no merit. That he chose yourself to produce this vs 4+ other users who could capture the RGB output from hardware is telling IMO.

 

If you would like an example of this phenomena, take a look at my Checkered Flag emulation video and compare it to actual hardware. that's the kind of gulf that can exist between the two, but not nearly the limit of it.

 

 

This kind of mistake would easily be forgiven if it was a matter of him being unaware of the differences and lack of worthwhile data to be obtained, but it's at least the third instance of this very same outcome. And at this point there is only one sensible conclusion to be drawn.

 

And, you couldn't even reply to me directly after baiting me for information (which I freely gave)?

I only replied to you directly, didn't I? That was my intention or at least that's the way I thought I left it. Did you take my post as an attack on your good self? No, I totally understood your motives and even walked a similar path in the past - offering services to the guy and attempting to give him the benefit of the doubt - in order to force his hand a little... only to receive the usual outcome. My words were regarding the special one himself and the super special permission he gave you to record the video under emulation.

 

If you wish to see examples of petty or worse - look no further than the 4-letter-word tirade he spouted at me for merely suggesting we obtain some meaningful Jaguar hardware output. Look to the constant puerile use of "haters club" and "sub-8-bit" mincing he constantly trots out... that's petty.

 

One thing is for sure, sh3-rg, you use some fun gifs, hehe.

f

 

Actually, that was my thought too. Anything you can do to make it flicker less and not have so much ghosting/tearing/whatever.

Clear the screen? Double buffering? Clipping?

 

I imagine all those will come free and won't slow anything down at all /s

 

The videos, as has been repeatedly discussed, are worthless.

This is the only real issue here and the one I have posted regarding in this and other threads he is involved in - their only worth is to seek to deceive those who know no better and further bolster his claims of leetness vs lol-8-bit lamers he sees all around him.

 

 

I don't care if he delivers the world at this point, as has been previously posted by another - he'll still be a complete prick.

While that sentiment isn't lost on me, maybe given [REDACTED]your general xunty disposition (lolol), maybe it's best to just stay the heck away from interacting with this joker as you're both fueling his fire and risking your own well being. It might be keyboard warrior fun and games to him but the repercussions for yourself are not worth the risk. At. All.

 

In fact I'll do the same, wash my hands of this sorry mess...

 

Let him promise the earth, make his excuses and fade back into obscurity in the best traditions of Jaguar vapourware peddlers of days gone by.

 

That way, the only people who get hurt are the genuine fans, and maybe the only way they will learn these lessons is in fact the hard way.

 

I don't care for attention at all

Edited December 2, 2015 by sh3-rg

[LianneJaguar64]

 

 

It's still Saturday on the East Coast.

Why not cut him a little slack? You complain relentlessly that he doesn't show anything and then he starts working on a project you still complain?

 

Especially seeing as how he's doing it off of his own back, no one ASKED him... Seriously, there are so many cynical people in this community... If you don't want to imagine/pleasantly discuss the potential of the Jaguar, then why are you here?

[PlaysWithWolves]

 

I don't see it as being petty.

 

 

-It seems petty because you're demanding an unrealistic-and-unnecessary burden-of-proof when his test is clearly in a very, very early stage and likely even unoptimized. Believe the video as accurate, or don't believe it. Either way it's not hurting you at all. If you think VladR is braggadocios, or just a jerk, then put him on ignore.

-VladR had no idea what my PC specs were until I told you. He only sent me the files because I asked him straight-up in private if he was -- as CJ wrote -- "trolling" me.

-While I thought it was a catty/backbiting way to respond (you only replied to sd32 -- not me) I wasn't insulted. I also can understand if it wasn't intentional. I don't think my ego's large enough where there's anything anyone here can say which I haven't told myself.

-I don't have "fast blitter" turned on in VJ, even though the PoC runs even better and pretty solidly at 60FPS.

 

Here's your 60FPS, 720p video in the best way I could figure out how to do it. It's just going to have to do until a time when a really matters--like when money's being exchanged, or if it's far surpassed what everyone thought the Jag was capable of. I doubt most will see it as vastly different from the 30FPS version:

 

https://youtu.be/KRQ__oIZ7Zw

Edited December 2, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves

[PlaysWithWolves]

Put him on ignore if you don't like what he's saying. I have no horse in this race, I don't know either of you, but if you intend to prove him wrong, do so.

 

I have to say figuring out how to put people on ignore wasn't very intuitive to me. I kept looking in others' profiles instead of my own.

I don't have anyone there yet, but it's nice to know how.

[VladR]

 

I don't see it as being petty. The difference between Virtual Jaguar output vs Jaguar hardware can be quite drastic, there's more than enough reason to insist on doing things in a meaningful manner, especially when someone is shining the spot-light down on themselves and making lofty claims. When it's simply a matter of taking advantage of the setups many users here have, even more so. You have a gaming-spec PC running VJ - as much as your video does show regarding what he created in one weekend (a mere 16 hours!), from a technical perspective, the video has no merit. That he chose yourself to produce this vs 4+ other users who could capture the RGB output from hardware is telling IMO.

Did you even read, like third of this thread ?

 

How many times have we been over this ?

 

Did not stick, so let's go through it again:

1. I am not making ANY claims about RR framerate. I myself am wondering if I can achieve playbale framerate using just C language (no GPU/DSP)

 

2. Only if Phase 1 results in a framerate of at least ~8 FPS, will it make sense for me to try to go for GPU/DSP.

 

 

Do I know what the framerate using just 68k/Blitter will be with all features in it ? No.

Did I ever claim I know how much framerate will I get ? No ! I said 100 times I never did a racing engine, so I have no idea either !

 

 

So, please, stop lying and spreading misinformations !

 

The only reason I am not going to let Reboot record the build is because of all the crap they pulled during Klax thread - where the video recorded on jag proved it was running fluently and at 60 fps - which is exactly why you got the Bathroom Joke from me, because you did not have an ounce of humility in you to say - uhm - sorry.

[VladR]

Especially seeing as how he's doing it off of his own back, no one ASKED him... Seriously, there are so many cynical people in this community... If you don't want to imagine/pleasantly discuss the potential of the Jaguar, then why are you here?

I totally appreciate you are trying to stand up for me, and I am very thankful for that, but they will only hurt you if you start arguing with them, so it's best if you avoid this.

 

As for your question - at this point it should be obvious the reboot camp does not want to see any RR prototype.

 

They would only like to see me fail so that they are heralded as the only ones who produce, ehm, "releases".

 

They don't want you to see it is actually possible to come close to the commercial production values.

 

They don't want you to see even 1-2 guys could achieve the level of 3D we are talking about here.

[PlaysWithWolves]

I totally appreciate you are trying to stand up for me, and I am very thankful for that, but they will only hurt you if you start arguing with them, so it's best if you avoid this.

 

As for your question - at this point it should be obvious the reboot camp does not want to see any RR prototype.

 

They would only like to see me fail so that they are heralded as the only ones who produce, ehm, "releases".

 

They don't want you to see it is actually possible to come close to the commercial production values.

 

They don't want you to see even 1-2 guys could achieve the level of 3D we are talking about here.

 

Vlad, you've said your piece. Now just do it.

There's really no reason to keep arguing, no matter what anyone says. At the very worst your project only hurt me but I'm a big boy and can judge for myself if it was time wasted (if you were asking for money I might feel differently). All the mocking from them (or by you toward them) in the world doesn't help you finish a demo that half the people in this thread actually want to see.