SIO2 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Are you guys talking about just pushing the dust shield back or actually trying to remove it? The cart is clearly fake but I wouldn't think he would want to disassemble it if he is going to return it. But if he does go that route I would be interested to see the photos also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari181 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Link? Post 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Are you guys talking about just pushing the dust shield back or actually trying to remove it? The cart is clearly fake but I wouldn't think he would want to disassemble it if he is going to return it. But if he does go that route I would be interested to see the photos also. Just push it back, no damage. I can most likely tell where the circuit board came from. Don't disassemble it, if you want your money back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 this is whats wrong with society now and days, people just take advantage but hey its the world we live in right. Sucks for the real gamers like us that want holy grails to their collection. It amazes me how some people come out with holy grails of games and find them in the least expected place like yard sales, or thrift shops and basements but hopefully one of us are the few that will own a part of history cause im sure i wouldnt sell a red sea crossing or nintendo world championships. Were gamers its in our blood since kids its part of our lives. Well enough venting goodnight Max, I seriously hope you can get your money back for this. If you just wanted a repro to play, Albert or Hozer or someone else could have hooked you up for $20. It's a sad day when thieves try to scam innocent collectors of their hard earned money. You thought you were getting a deal on a holy grail game but in reality you got ripped off. And for every 10 guys that buy into this scam, probably 9 of them are none the wiser. The nerve of people like this, also the fake "PVC pipe" Air Raid seller in the other thread. I sure do hope you get your money back for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I will not buy any game over 50 bucks. That way I cant be out too much. F holy grails. Most all suck. Also too easy to get scammed. Should have a registry for extremely rare 20k games. They do for cars. But how to tell? No serial numbers? Effer should go to jail and date Tyrone for 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Geez. What a contrast. Such innocence here. It's all rainbows & waterfalls on this site compared to another one that I frequent. Around here, when someone gets victimized by a scam, the community actually feels empathy for the victim and supports them! Seems logical huh? Nope. Not over there. Over there the victim is criticized, insulted, ridiculed, accused of being part of the scam, tarred & feathered, and forced into exile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Geez. What a contrast. Such innocence here. It's all rainbows & waterfalls on this site compared to another one that I frequent. Around here, when someone gets victimized by a scam, the community actually feels empathy for the victim and supports them! Seems logical huh? Nope. Not over there. Over there the victim is criticized, insulted, ridiculed, accused of being part of the scam, tarred & feathered, and forced into exile. Oh yeah I guess it is epic and modern to laugh at the people getting "punked" Sorry not to support the system of cool people who steal from others. Sorry I always thought scammers should have all the fun with my fist smashing their face into the back of their skull. It is really too bad these people have no face to show and live in their parents basements whacking off to spiderman comics dreaming about the next victim. Probably reading my post and laughing at us all. These are the people who should be stomped out. Also these people taken advantage of should be helped as you have have seen here by people who are honest and respectful.I am sorry for my rage but I think we all get sick of hearing stories like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800fan Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Once you receive the cart and can verify with picture that it is a fake, you could open claim and state it is counterfeit since the seller failed to mention it's a repro. If eBay bot picks it up, they may force the refund without returning the item, just state the item is "destroyed" (take picture of smashed Combat cart if you must, leave labels face down!) and seller will lose the money and lose that fake cart so he can't try to resell to rip off another victim. If by chance you are asked to return it, hold the seller to a return label as required under buyer's protection. If the seller fails or refuses to send you one, call eBay and remind them their own buyer policy on SNAD claim requires seller to pay for return shipping and that seller is not offering label or compensation on returns. eBay may refund you and let you keep the cart. Dirty trick yeah but if the seller is trying to rip off innocent buyer, I won't feel sorry if the buyer counter-rip off the sneaky seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIO2 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Geez. What a contrast. Such innocence here. It's all rainbows & waterfalls on this site compared to another one that I frequent. Around here, when someone gets victimized by a scam, the community actually feels empathy for the victim and supports them! Seems logical huh? Nope. Not over there. Over there the victim is criticized, insulted, ridiculed, accused of being part of the scam, tarred & feathered, and forced into exile. It does seem that a lot of people these days delight in the suffering of others. I don't get it. Why, how can anyone tolerate or participate in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 @Max Revolver, please let us know when/if you get reimbursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOliver Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't know if this is valid or not but the first thing I look at is at the label corners. Square cuts to me is a red flag, cut by hand with a guillotine paper cutter. Production units to me should have rounded corners from die cuts. All the trouble this dude went to distressing the label to fake age and even the almost gone Gauntlet label still has one square corner remaining. But I don't know, where there any manufactured carts with square corner labels? I think the round corners were to reduce the chance of the label lifting at the corners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't know if this is valid or not but the first thing I look at is at the label corners. Square cuts to me is a red flag, cut by hand with a guillotine paper cutter. Production units to me should have rounded corners from die cuts. All the trouble this dude went to distressing the label to fake age and even the almost gone Gauntlet label still has one square corner remaining. But I don't know, where there any manufactured carts with square corner labels? I think the round corners were to reduce the chance of the label lifting at the corners. Good point Dan. You are right. Atari (1st party and 3rd party), all Nintendos, Sega Genesis, all had round edges on the labels. Not sure but maybe SMS, Lynx, and NEC Hucard had square corners? I had to go check my collection. Lynx have the only labels with true square corners, and only square on the connector side. Hucard labels are "baked" into the plastic; no label to peel off. SMS have nearly square looking corners but with my unaided nearsighted eyes I can clearly see rounded corners upon very close inspection. I'd say the turn radius on the SMS is extremely sharp, well less than half a millimeter turn radius, but it is there. Heck, even most of my homebrews and repros, at least those from reputable makers, have rounded corners. I have a couple though with clearly handmade labels that were cut with either a guillotine or a strait edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't know if this is valid or not but the first thing I look at is at the label corners. Square cuts to me is a red flag, cut by hand with a guillotine paper cutter. Production units to me should have rounded corners from die cuts. All the trouble this dude went to distressing the label to fake age and even the almost gone Gauntlet label still has one square corner remaining. But I don't know, where there any manufactured carts with square corner labels? I think the round corners were to reduce the chance of the label lifting at the corners. Yes and NO. While the vast majority of the labels on production run cartridges for cartridge based systems have always had rounded edges, and that does indeed usually serve as a dead giveaway for most of the rare and highly desirable games, there are several notable exceptions, and what's worse is that most if not ALL of these exceptions happen to be with holy grails. Reason being, most holy grails are unbelievably rare because they didn't make or sell very many of them and the individuals or persons who put them together saved money by using cheaper and more easily available materials. Outback Joey for Sega Genesis -- eprom board inside, (no mask rom production) & non laminated paper quality cartridge label with straight edges. ATARI 2600 Air Raid, Red Sea Crossing, Birthday Mania, Gamma Attack, Extra Terrestrials -- eprom boards inside, (no production mask roms) & non laminated paper quality cartridge labels with straight edges. Mr. Boston for Vectrex -- eprom board inside, (no mask rom production) & non laminated paper quality cartridge label with straight edges. CAT SOS Game for Colecovision -- eprom board inside, (no mask rom production) & non laminated paper quality cartridge label with straight edges. Intellivision (the later releases) -- mask roms inside, however cheap black & white "Avery style" label stickers used for the label, some round, some not. NES (unlicensed Panesian games) cheap paper quality labels used for the carts and without rounded edges. Supergrafx Darius Alpha a cheap index card is used rather then an actual game manual booklet for the jewel case. These are just what I could think of while sitting here at my desk. There are many others as well. And granted, yes, some holy grails are exactly like production run carts, like NES Stadium Events. (normal laminated rounded label cart sticker) The point here is that it's ABSOLUTELY buyer beware when it comes to buying holy grails. Counterfeiting is rampant because it is profitable for scammers to take their time and make near perfect replicas; sometimes even using partially authentic parts in conjunction with real ones in order to further support the believers and fool the skeptics. So at the end of the day, what it comes down to is that the majority of the world's most valuable video games, are actually, in essence, the easiest ones to counterfeit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOliver Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks Supergun for tracking down the examples. I've wonder about this for a long time. IMO Air Raid is a fake for lots of reason that I think I've already posted. With antiques, paintings, pretty much any collectible, an item is assumed to be a fake until proven otherwise. Air Raid has nothing. But that's just me. Red Sea Crossing, Birthday Mania, Gamma Attack and Extra Terrestrials all have much better provenance. Red Sea Crossing provenance imo is as good as it gets. There's a reason for why the labels were hand cut. So to me if a 2600 cart has square corners it better have provenance that explains why. But yes, it's up to the buyer. I think some buyers prefer to think a fake is real because that's what they want. I don't really see a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 IMO Air Raid is a fake for lots of reason that I think I've already posted. With antiques, paintings, pretty much any collectible, an item is assumed to be a fake until proven otherwise. Air Raid has nothing. But that's just me. So you think the link to the Mena family and their toy shop was part of the fake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOliver Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't pretend to know every part of the story, but what link was there? That Mena and Men are similar words? That they sold toys? Is there more? That a toy store owner made a game and had it manufactured in Taiwan? Makes no sense to me. The amount of money that would have costed at the time would have been a lot. Like in the ballpark of what the entire store may have been worth. But mainly the red flags for me have to do with the stories on how these items were "found". All things are possible but all things are not probable. To me the more valuable an item the higher the bar for proving authenticity should be. In the case of Air Raid I think the opposite has been true. There are lots of ways to get more info on the paper and inks used in the product that would have given more authenticity. The sellers never provide anything like that I know of and the buyers didn't demand any. That's odd for items that fetch so much and where there's no other provenance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't pretend to know every part of the story, but what link was there? That Mena and Men are similar words? That they sold toys? Is there more? We checked the address printed on the manual. At that time, there was a toy shop owned by the Mena family. This information was not easy to find, originally there was just a single old photo. And Men-A-Vision is a play of the family name. Could that have been faked? Maybe. But is that likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Who spends a shitload of money on a cartridge mold for a hoax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Who spends a shitload of money on a cartridge mold for a hoax? I dunno but if you find out let me know. I wanna start using t handle blue demons for my carts too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Provenance. I think the blue glued on PVC pipe in recent the eBay auction was provenance enough that it was fake. I heard that the blue plastics was left over from a batch of baby bottles and a test run of 25 carts was all that was made. Menavision loaned out the blue carts to retailers. A few store owners clearanced the odd ball carts or kept them as souvenirs. None ordered any from Menavision. Had there been an actual production run, the carts would have been black plastic like everything else, and Air Raids would have been yet another $50 crappy R8 or R9 rather than a holy grail. The poor guy that made them probably went bankrupt paying for the molds alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I heard that the blue plastics was left over from a batch of baby bottles and a test run of 25 carts was all that was made. That comes from a post of a guy claiming that his father designed the mold and made the test run of carts, but I don't give much credit to that story. This is a quote from it (here is the full post) [...] When Making a Mold it has to be tested. Dad said that 51 parts would really only be 25 and 1/2 games/carts. The one mold would run both sides of the cart [...] The fact is that the cart shell is not simmetrical at all. Even if the mold was designed with interchangeable inserts so that it could be reconfigured to produce both sides (very unlikely, IMO), at least the posts for screws and interlocking of the 2 halves would have been made simmetrical and the indentation for the label would have been on both sides to reduce complexity of the mold itself, which is clearly not the case here. Edited November 13, 2015 by alex_79 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntavio Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 this guy lol This guy is reading this topic.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 This guy is reading this topic.................... So? It's a public forum. Let him "lurk" if he wants... I feel bad for him for his loss and I hope he gets his money back. Max, if you are reading this, you're welcome here any time. Please do let us know if you get refunded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Revolver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Hey guys, been gone for couple days now, well just received Red sea crossing from this a hole, ima load up some pics let me know what you guys think, should i open it or what idk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Revolver Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 This is what i got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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