Secretum Labyrinth The Legend Cartridge about to be released.

[GroovyBee]

Here is the Video with the commentary. Here are some additional screen shots I made for the game.

There are still visual glitches in the game. You can see a weird mid-screen artefact at around 42s into the video and junk in the HUD area around 1:03. They are quite noticeable if you watch that video at 1/4 speed.

[peteym5]

Are you referring to when the character goes from one room to the other? That is normal for the Atari when the DMA and VBIs are disabled so the program can quickly draw and set up the next room. This will happen because the scan line takes one frame to re-sync the display. Happens with many other games that have multiple screens and the is no real solution to fix it. It is only visible for 1/60s of a second.

[flashjazzcat]

Are you referring to when the character goes from one room to the other? That is normal for the Atari when the DMA and VBIs are disabled so the program can quickly draw and set up the next room. This will happen because the scan line takes one frame to re-sync the display. Happens with many other games that have multiple screens and the is no real solution to fix it. It is only visible for 1/60s of a second.

 

Turning DMA off for one or more frames while the new screen is drawn is no problem (assuming it's not possible to draw the new screen to a different frame buffer then swap them), but I think one of the problems GroovyBee is referring to is noticeable screen junk during the transitional phase, like this:

 

 

It appears DMA is still running during the transitional phase and occasionally results in ungainly transitions from one room to the next.

 

I'm also intrigued by the repeated references to "smooth scrolling" in the game, since I don't see any scrolling effects at all.

[GroovyBee]

Happens with many other games that have multiple screens and the is no real solution to fix it. It is only visible for 1/60s of a second.

For a $50 price tag I'd expect a more polished look between room transitions. Just because games back in the day did it, doesn't mean that modern homebrews should mimic the bad old ways.

[peteym5]

Actually Video61 and myself are able to put the cartridge out for $39.95 with free shipping still. Video61 limit for free shipping is $40, but he does not care about that 5 cents. He was able to do this because he got a break on getting the EPROM chips needed to make the cartridge. The decision was made after I stated the earlier price.

[CrazyChris]

When I was designing this Role Playing Adventure Game engine, I built them around a 64K RAM system and use the RAM under the OS ROM and to use a custom NMI interrupt that hold VBIs one frame if the prior VBI did not complete in one frame. It requires 64K RAM on a 800XL, 65XE, 130XE, XEGS. It should work with a Incognito board installed.

Thanks for the info!

[FifthPlayer]

For a $50 price tag I'd expect a more polished look between room transitions. Just because games back in the day did it, doesn't mean that modern homebrews should mimic the bad old ways.

 

I can't recall any games from "back in the day" that had these sort of visual glitches.

[Mclaneinc]

Nor can I?

[peteym5]

The best solution I can think of is not to disable the DMA for the screen until the scanline is still between frames. May not be easy to add the extra instruction as the programming space is very tight. Not many people paid attention to artifacts there for less than 1/60 second and don't think it takes anything away from the game play.

[peteym5]

Wow!.. the music sounds like Shadow of The Beast - Amiga version.

 

Nice game and great job!.

 

 

 

http://forums.atari.io/index.php/topic/1238-secretum-labyrinth-a-new-zeldagauntlet-type-arcade-action-adventure-game-for-atari-xlxe-computers/

Edited November 30, 2015 by peteym5

[peteym5]

Since the release of the game back in November 2015, I can say Secretum Labyrinth (2) The Legend has sold steadily. I believe having a smaller executable game within this series that serves as a demo does help people see what the game is about. Also kept things positive in the discussion. The game is available for $39.95 on the brown/grey Williams cartridge.

 

A third game is in the works right now. I am making some drastic changes to the programming so more things happen and people will encounter new and interesting things in a whole new dungeon. The graphics are being reworked. That quick display flicker will be corrected with the 3rd game I would like to make a much more in depth Adventure/Role Playing Game.

 

Although this Adventure game has some similarities to other games, I was careful with making things unique to avoid any copyright issues. No one has ownership of Adventure games. I looked at NES Zelda, 2600 Adventure, Golden Axe Warrior via emulators, and I say I did something unique for the Atari 8-bit. I even tried the Adventure II XE beta test, looks like Cafeman totally branched in a whole different direction from the 2600 Adventure. I paid homage to the 2600 Adventure a different way, the dragon types you have to battle in the rooms are either green, yellow, or red. green dragon takes less hitpoints to kill, red dragons have more and harder to kill.

[Mclaneinc]

I think you are too concerned with copyright here, considering average sprite sizes and game area block sizes its quite hard to make something that does not accidentally resemble another game, so unless you call your main characters Zelda & Link, steal the theme tune and copy a Zelda map down to the pixel then I doubt anyone will bat an eyelid. Also, paying homage to some games is greatly liked by players, people like to think "well this is our Zelda" etc etc.

 

All I'm saying is to try not to constrict yourself in a bid to be safe from copyright....

 

Nice to hear the flicker will be phased out...

 

On a different note, those annoying red dragons, always the worst...

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Just came across this, very cool project. I noticed earlier in the thread that you might consider other platforms such as the 7800...I'd be very interested in a 7800 build. That system needs games like this badly

 

I also don't see any copyright issues from the videos, as you are not making any sort of straight up copy of those aforementioned adventure/RPG games. Great job on the work, these types of games are no easy matter (otherwise everyone would do them )

[peteym5]

I was still careful about making anything too close to another game and Secretum Labyrinth had to be its own game. I do not believe the NES Zelda could be duplicated on the Atari because of the different screen and sprite layout. You would need the 7800 or VBXE to make something close to NES Legend of Zelda. The 7800 Basic demo they put together had a set up very close to Zelda, but I think what I had been doing be a better candidate for an Adventure game for the 7800. I would need to talk to the 7800 programmers to assist me with the conversions.

 

I also considered Secretum Labyrinth VBXE, but not everybody has one of those. I would be looking to a much smaller market compared to the already limited market of the Atari 8-bit.

 

Secretum Labyrinth 3D on a windows PC is another consideration using Direct 3D and 3D accelerator (ATI, NVIDIA). I already have an 3D RPG maker I made for the PC a few years ago, had not got around to updating lately.

[steverobotnik]

If I may play the smartass for a second: the correct Latin spelling for the title would be 'secretus labyrinthus'. Interesting game though!

 

 

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[Mclaneinc]

I was still careful about making anything too close to another game and Secretum Labyrinth had to be its own game. I do not believe the NES Zelda could be duplicated on the Atari because of the different screen and sprite layout. You would need the 7800 or VBXE to make something close to NES Legend of Zelda. The 7800 Basic demo they put together had a set up very close to Zelda, but I think what I had been doing be a better candidate for an Adventure game for the 7800. I would need to talk to the 7800 programmers to assist me with the conversions.

 

I also considered Secretum Labyrinth VBXE, but not everybody has one of those. I would be looking to a much smaller market compared to the already limited market of the Atari 8-bit.

 

Secretum Labyrinth 3D on a windows PC is another consideration using Direct 3D and 3D accelerator (ATI, NVIDIA). I already have an 3D RPG maker I made for the PC a few years ago, had not got around to updating lately.

 

A VBXE version would be really nice but I can understand your reservations sales wise...

 

The PC 3D RPG maker, care to share and screens of the sort of game you can make (graphics wise), would it be more ST / Amiga style or a full on DicrectX laced effects thing?

[Mclaneinc]

If I may play the smartass for a second: the correct Latin spelling for the title would be 'secretus labyrinthus'. Interesting game though!

 

 

 

Damn clever people, you lot get everywhere......

 

And remember, no one likes a smartass

[peteym5]

If I may play the smartass for a second: the correct Latin spelling for the title would be 'secretus labyrinthus'. Interesting game though!

 

 

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I was going to use labyrinthus, but dropped it down to labyrinth so it is easier to understand. I believe I read somewhere labyrinth is still considered Latin for maze. Secretum/Secretus are both Latin for secret. I also looked at other Latin based languages like Spanish and Italian. Some monster names were translated to Latin and German. I was trying to use a middle (14th century/Shakespearean) Rnglish translator for in game texts to make it more medieval, but that would had made the texts way too hard to figure out because they provide hints for the game. So in the end, I decided keep to modern general English.

[peteym5]

 

A VBXE version would be really nice but I can understand your reservations sales wise...

 

The PC 3D RPG maker, care to share and screens of the sort of game you can make (graphics wise), would it be more ST / Amiga style or a full on DicrectX laced effects thing?

 

 

[peteym5]

 

A VBXE version would be really nice but I can understand your reservations sales wise...

 

The PC 3D RPG maker, care to share and screens of the sort of game you can make (graphics wise), would it be more ST / Amiga style or a full on DicrectX laced effects thing?

 

Here are some screen shots for Imperium Magica, formally known as Realm Magic and RP3DA. I might get back to this someday. In some of the images you see powered by TV3D 6.3/6.5. That was the 3D engine that drove the game graphics, but the company had not updated their engine for almost a decade, so I started some work converting the programming to use another 3D engine. Also working on making it into a MMORPG and me running a monthly service (Imperium Magica Online). It was a lot of work for me to do all these things by myself. Had been looking for assistance. So there are many reasons why its on the back burner right now.

[Jinks]

Hey pete. Please make a 7800 game with pokey sound etc.. It would sell easy for 50 bucks and would sell 100-150 copies easy maybe 200 or so. I dont know if that is enough.. That would be immediate sales within 2-3 weeks of release.

[peteym5]

I would have to consult with some 7800 programmers to set up something similar to an Antic 4 screen and convert the sprite system. I know the 7800 can do multicolored sprites and have 8 on a row without them flickering. I believe you need to sacrifice on of them if you are to do a font character based background. I can always multiplex sprites if I need to.

 

Video 61 has tons of blank 7800 cartridges in stock also. I know we have 7800 Basic, but can that interface with 6502 Assembly source? Secretum Labyrinth uses a compact method to store the screens for each room that is procedurally drawn. If I can get a similar Antic 4 screen set up for the 7800 and matching font, the same routine can be used to draw the screens.

Edited July 11, 2016 by peteym5

[Synthpopalooza]

Petey: I believe 7800 BASIC can interface with Assembly (not sure how). But it's a real easy way to program games on the 7800. I've played around with it and am about to embark on my own programming project with it!

[peteym5]

I believe it can also. I would need a template to set up a 40 column character map screen. 2 text lines plus 24 multicolor character lines. That way all I need is a similar looking font and read the same room set up data to draw each room. Otherwise, I would have to redo everything from scratch.

Edited July 12, 2016 by peteym5

[peteym5]

Here is a sample of some possible graphic upgrades for the next Secretum Labyrinth. Keep in mind this is not final and is a work in progress. There will be less pixels for the floor background, making the floor appear darker in many of the rooms. Using Super-IRG might create issues with some PAL and SECAM displays, a slight flicker if there are too many pixels alternating between black and a light color.