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How come a lot getting into retro games skip Atari?

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The Virtual World pods were more of an event video game experience. I think they only had them in Vegas and Chicago back in the day. They weren't in standard arcades, you had to go to an official "Virtual World" to use them. They had all sorts of stuff set up: a lounge to hang out in before the game, in universe training videos. I think it was $10 for a gaming session.

 

They weren't standard arcade fare.

 

Yes, true. The only reason I included them was because of their similarity to Steel Battalion (home console game) and because of the cool factor of the complex/unique control scheme (furthest thing from a single joystick/2-6 buttons that you could get, probably) which is something of a draw for older arcade game fans. Not a requirement, just "Oh cool, something different."

 

They had those pods in many cities, you could sign up to play against groups in other cities, too. Unfortunately they didn't last too long, never really caught on.

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I actually used to openly malign the CX-40, but it has a nice tight throw that is really perfect for some games. It is much easier to play Cosmic Ark or Frostbite with the CX-40 than one of those wide throw sticks that I used to use exclusively (Wico Bat etc).

 

Adding to the actual discussion - It was already mentioned, but I think the lack of composite is a bigger deal than controllers for those trying to get into the pre-crash systems.

 

You're probably right about that, too. Nobody who doesn't own an old CRT with coax/twin-lead connectors is going to want to track down a modded 2600 or 5200 (or get the mod done) when most of those games will play on emulators. Nothing beats playing those old consoles on real CRTs (with the original controllers) but that is another thing that is going the way of the dodo so there will be people who will never experience old Atari 2600 games "correctly" unless they make it to a gaming convention where some kind soul has manhandled a few CRTs onto tables in order to give the youngsters the true 4:3 CRT scanline experience. And look at that, now the lightguns work!

 

It's another reason why I like arcade game conventions so much (the next Arcade Expo in Banning, CA. is coming soon, not just arcade games but pinball games and those old mechanical ones, too!), seeing real hardware. That includes CRTs and those wonderful, beautiful vector monitors. Love the glow from the black & white ones, love the juicy colors of the color ones. I appreciate what MAME has provided the arcade gaming community but I would be a bit disappointed playing a MAME cab with a flatscreen monitor, just not the same. "Progress", so I'm told. But that mindset has to abandon convenience early on, otherwise it's nothing but complaints.

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Here's my simple two cents:

 

Atari was born in an age where the main competitive outlet was sports, and that meant keeping score. Pinball had scores, sports, and thus so did the first arcade games: Computer Space, Pong, so on. Two player games for the most part, and people keeping score. Atari games focused on score with only a very few select titles providing a different experience. Super Mario Bros had a score, but an actual ending. Endings came before NES, of course, but they were the ones that made it formulaic. The graphics were good enough to not need too much explanation, and the concepts ring true to this day. Sega did this, all the big companies did this. Sega, however, had more of a hand in the arcade games due to the company line, and that meant score. But scores were kinda pointless there, too: who played Outrun or Afterburner to post a high score? You wanted to see the end of the race, or the mid-air refueling sequence.

 

If competing against your friends for high scores doesn't appeal to you, or trying to beat your own scores, for that fact, then you won't 'get' Atari.

 

I don't get bothered if people don't like Atari, don't get it. It's very much a generational thing, and I don't blame gamers who grew up on the N64 to not get it. It was a product of its time, and those who like it, like it a lot. I know lots of folks in my age group who couldn't give a shit about retro games, and that's fine too. They're the 'STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!" people :) I don't live in the past, I simply enjoy games from that era better than today's games. "Better" is a relative term. We get all bent outta shape when someone doesn't like something we like?...that's foolishness. You like what YOU like, I'll do likewise and we'll all make it through the night.

 

I love NES, it's no secret. But I've always loved the earlier gen systems. I don't get the systems that came before the Atari VCS for the most part for the same reasons that today's gamers don't get the VCS. It's all gonna be ok :)

 

This is exactly what I have said elsewhere: VCS is about 'high score gaming' that has largely fallen out of fashion, though I think it has stealthily returned in the form of mobile games.

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Npc_logo.jpg

 

I should add that that was Dan's theory. After the crash and Atari Inc and Warner management went into a panic and projects were cancelled - such as his 5200 Steering Wheel Controller and Yoke Controller - while they refocused their duties on the 7800. So that would explain why reissuing 2600 titles with Trak-Ball support was a low to no priority at the time...

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One thing I don't understand, why the CX-40 used dome switches under the joystick instead of silicone pads. The pads are so much more responsive than dome switches and literally never wear out, even after 20 years of use. The Flashback joysticks are basically carbon copies of the CX-40, but they use pads instead of dome switches, and that one difference makes them worlds better than the CX-40, even if they're not as good as say a joystick with a proper base plate like the Advantage.

 

Even the keypad controllers are a stiff mess because of the dome switches. Compare that even to a modern TV remote control that uses silicone pads. No comparison.

 

Did silicone pad / carbon dot tech not exist in the 70s?

 

Funny you should mention carbon dots. Atari Inc used carbon dots and flex circuits [they went through 9 revisions before the flex circuit was perfected] in the 5200 joysticks. That's why they proved unreliable because carbon dots were terrible tech at least back then. Owners would rub erasers on them or would tape tin foil to them to get them to work. There's several helpful Youtube vids on how to do that.

 

But the popular way of fixing the carbon dot issue for the past five years was to replace them with gold dots. Best Electronics sells a lot of those kits:

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/cx52_j.htm

 

That's why it pays to have a lot of disposable funds if one wishes to join Team 5200 amongst the retro scene. The 5200 is like a 70s era Jaguar. [the automobiles]. But despite that, it was a very advanced console concerning its features. The joysticks are easy to convert over to Paddles and the CX-53 speaks for itself.

 

 

A functioning 5200 joystick is awesome. It's also a lot more comfortable to use than the 7800 ProLines. Although with the ProLine, you can cut the stick in half and change the top piece to a ball and that greatly improves them. Yurkie used to do that mod a lot. He changes the Colecovision's controllers to use a ball top as well.

Edited by Lynxpro
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Funny you should mention carbon dots. Atari Inc used carbon dots and flex circuits [they went through 9 revisions before the flex circuit was perfected] in the 5200 joysticks. That's why they proved unreliable because carbon dots were terrible tech at least back then. Owners would rub erasers on them or would tape tin foil to them to get them to work. There's several helpful Youtube vids on how to do that.

 

But the popular way of fixing the carbon dot issue for the past five years was to replace them with gold dots. Best Electronics sells a lot of those kits:

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/cx52_j.htm

Carbon dot tech itself does not oxidize like metals obviously since CO2 is a gas. Furthermore carbon only reacts with atmospheric O2 at very high temperatures (fire) but is nonreactive at normal temps so it doesn't deteriorate over time. Few metals besides gold are truly resistant to oxidation or corrosion. This is because as a Nobel metal, gold has an unusually high electonegativity (2.4). Carbon is 2.5 for comparison.

 

Funny you mention the 5200 controllers. I am aware of the gold dot Best joysticks and will likely get one whenever I finally take that plunge into 5200 turf. My CX-80 trackball has gold dots in it too. The CX-52 is a peculiar beast in that it uses hard buttons on top of a conductive membrane. conventional gamepads use a silicone pad between the button and the contact, generally placed the contacts directly on the PCB which is far more durable than a conductive membrane. Also the silicone pad acts as a barrier to keep contaminants such as sweat, dead skin, and food/grease residue from reaching the electrical connection. Of course keyboards also use membranes and seem to operate just fine.

 

But looking at gamepad controllers such as Nintendo and Sega pads, they used carbon dots on top of gold plated or carbon coated PCB traces and they worked reliably for decades. The only controllers I've seen with buttons that did not respond usually were the result of cola or some other contaminant that leaked into the controller. Most of these issues can be cured by simply disassembling the controller and cleaning the silicone pads and PCB.

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Carbon dot tech itself does not oxidize like metals obviously since CO2 is a gas. Furthermore carbon only reacts with atmospheric O2 at very high temperatures (fire) but is nonreactive at normal temps so it doesn't deteriorate over time. Few metals besides gold are truly resistant to oxidation or corrosion. This is because as a Nobel metal, gold has an unusually high electonegativity (2.4). Carbon is 2.5 for comparison.

 

Funny you mention the 5200 controllers. I am aware of the gold dot Best joysticks and will likely get one whenever I finally take that plunge into 5200 turf. My CX-80 trackball has gold dots in it too. The CX-52 is a peculiar beast in that it uses hard buttons on top of a conductive membrane. conventional gamepads use a silicone pad between the button and the contact, generally placed the contacts directly on the PCB which is far more durable than a conductive membrane. Also the silicone pad acts as a barrier to keep contaminants such as sweat, dead skin, and food/grease residue from reaching the electrical connection. Of course keyboards also use membranes and seem to operate just fine.

 

But looking at gamepad controllers such as Nintendo and Sega pads, they used carbon dots on top of gold plated or carbon coated PCB traces and they worked reliably for decades. The only controllers I've seen with buttons that did not respond usually were the result of cola or some other contaminant that leaked into the controller. Most of these issues can be cured by simply disassembling the controller and cleaning the silicone pads and PCB.

 

I think the reason why the tech worked for Nintendo and Sega is because they had a bit more time to perfect them. The 5200 came out in 1982 and they were revising the joysticks all the way into mid 1984. Curt Vendel had pics posted at his website that were schematics of a perfected 5200 joystick that replaced the multiple fire buttons with 2 hard buttons like the 7800 ProLines later did. If I recall, this version of the joystick self-centered. But then Atari Inc fell apart and Atari Corp didn't release them. They did mod a lot of 4-port 5200s that were apparently in the warehouses so that they'd be compatible with the 2600 adapter and also replaced the auto switching RF modulator with the traditional manual switch. They sold specialized bundles in the Atari Explorer magazine in early 1985… Had Corp released the perfected 5200 joysticks, then it would've made the 7800 look bad unless they revised it further. And I'd say they would've had to have used them on the XE Game System and the later Atari STE computers. The STE did have 2 "enhanced joystick ports" [i believe they are DB25s if I remember right; the 5200 had DB15s] in addition to the 2 standard DB9s, they supported analog and digital, but at that point, they didn't release the perfected 5200 joysticks, they released the ST Game Pad which later became the Jaguar Game Pad since the Jag also used those ports [later].

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But looking at gamepad controllers such as Nintendo and Sega pads, they used carbon dots on top of gold plated or carbon coated PCB traces and they worked reliably for decades.

 

I commonly find Genesis controller buttons unresponsive these days. Much more so than any other system.

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I commonly find Genesis controller buttons unresponsive these days. Much more so than any other system.

I've come up with the same conclusion. This being said, I found a Genesis controller that actually worked very well. 2600-7800 gaming couldn't have been better.

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I've come up with the same conclusion. This being said, I found a Genesis controller that actually worked very well. 2600-7800 gaming couldn't have been better.

 

The Genesis pads are also very common. Even in retro stores, you can buy them for $3 used, like Dimple Records here in the Greater Metropolitan Sacramento Area. They are sturdier than the RetroBit pads which are based upon them. Never had the chance to try the Tengen versions. That would also be "keeping it in the family" considering Tengen's pedigree.

 

There are some 2600 home-brews - and I think one A8 game - that can access a secondary button on the Genesis pad. As for using them on a 7800, to get 2nd fire button functionality, you need a special cable or adapter like what EdLaddin sells. That's like $15. Far cheaper than used or new 7800 EuroPads.

 

This is not the forum thread for this but I was curious if micro switches could be added to various game pads...

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I've come up with the same conclusion. This being said, I found a Genesis controller that actually worked very well. 2600-7800 gaming couldn't have been better.

 

 

The Genesis pads are also very common. Even in retro stores, you can buy them for $3 used, like Dimple Records here in the Greater Metropolitan Sacramento Area. They are sturdier than the RetroBit pads which are based upon them. Never had the chance to try the Tengen versions. That would also be "keeping it in the family" considering Tengen's pedigree.

 

The three button Genesis controllers have a great feel IMO if you have large man hands like me. I even prefer them to the six button type. I never had any issue with the three button pad I picked up. I've also rarely encountered a first party, or even vintage third party pad for any system I couldn't get working again with a bit of TLC. Modern clones out of China are a different story however.

 

The most common cause of unresponsive controller buttons is gunk or debris seeping into the controller. I have found controllers with sticky soda or food remnants inside, and a small phillips screwdriver and some cotton balls with isopropyl alcohol was all that was needed to open and clean the controllers. Put them back together and good as new. The silicone rubber membranes rarely wear out even after years of heavy use, unless they've been exposed to harsh petroleum based chemicals.

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The three button Genesis controllers have a great feel IMO if you have large man hands like me. I even prefer them to the six button type. I never had any issue with the three button pad I picked up. I've also rarely encountered a first party, or even vintage third party pad for any system I couldn't get working again with a bit of TLC. Modern clones out of China are a different story however.

 

The most common cause of unresponsive controller buttons is gunk or debris seeping into the controller. I have found controllers with sticky soda or food remnants inside, and a small phillips screwdriver and some cotton balls with isopropyl alcohol was all that was needed to open and clean the controllers. Put them back together and good as new. The silicone rubber membranes rarely wear out even after years of heavy use, unless they've been exposed to harsh petroleum based chemicals.

i have to disagree with this comment. I have personally worn through two ASCII SNES turbo controllers after extended (5+ years) of playin Super Mario Kart and SFII Turbo for 3-4 hours each day.

 

Upon tearing apart the controller, I found that the main PCB board used conductive glue in concentric circles from both sides of the circuit. Over time, part of that conductive glue wore off. i believe the same might be true of OEM SNES controllers. I still have a Kraft controller for my Atari 800. That controller still works after years and years of playing Joust and Decathlon (actually, the 9 pin port had to be rewired a couple times, but the internal switches still work.

 

Not all controllers are well made. Looking at this 3-button Genesis tear down image, it is clear they use the conductive glue. Over an extended time, it will wear away.

https://electrothoughts.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/sega-genesis-controller-pcb.jpg

Edited by CapitanClassic

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I remember when all my Genesis controllers stopped working (could have been in the years before I could buy online when I was younger). looking up how to "fix" Genesis controllers (ie: clean, I found out) and I felt like a god after they both worked perfectly again. I couldn't believe what made the botton work was some golden contact thingies, and I really still can't. I thought there was some intricate mechanism, not a rubber pad thing.

 

I would say 4 hours a day over 5 years, you got your money outta them sumbitches. I remember some weird SNES light gun I bought (it had a Sega end, plugged into a SNES adapter) breaking after an hour. I was teh sad. Still am, whatever it was, it was more practical than the Super Scope. I love light gun games, but can't really bring myself to hook up my Super Scope again... just so gawdy and excessive. Just by handling it, I feel like a douche.

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i have to disagree with this comment. I have personally worn through two ASCII SNES turbo controllers after extended (5+ years) of playin Super Mario Kart and SFII Turbo for 3-4 hours each day.

 

Upon tearing apart the controller, I found that the main PCB board used conductive glue in concentric circles from both sides of the circuit. Over time, part of that conductive glue wore off. i believe the same might be true of OEM SNES controllers. I still have a Kraft controller for my Atari 800. That controller still works after years and years of playing Joust and Decathlon (actually, the 9 pin port had to be rewired a couple times, but the internal switches still work.

 

Not all controllers are well made. Looking at this 3-button Genesis tear down image, it is clear they use the conductive glue. Over an extended time, it will wear away.

https://electrothoughts.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/sega-genesis-controller-pcb.jpg

 

This could explain it, do official Nintendo controllers use conductive glue? I still use my original NES controller from 1988, the rubber is worn a bit but is just as responsive as Christmas morning when I opened the box, but most of my Genesis controllers have rubber worn down and poor response even when opened and cleaned. I thought maybe I should reapply some carbon to the rubber, but most look like the carbon is fine.

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But Pitfall and Miner 2049 didn't scroll. NES was designed from the ground up to play side-scrolling games like Super Mario Brothers.

 

The 400/800/5200 hardware, available in late 1978 was built to play scrolling games (horizontally, vertically, diagonally or multi-directionally) like e.g. Snokie, Necromancer, Zaxxon or Cavelord. And the 2600 could at least scroll vertically, as shown in Pitfall II or River Raid. The horizontally scrolling Jump'n'Run seemingly just didn't catch on until Super Mario Brothers made the genre popular, as most 400/800 Jump'n'Runs are single or multi-screen,

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But 2600 could do horizontally very well, there's Barnstorming, Grand Prix, Stampede to name just three from around 1981, 1982. And Moon Patrol, Defender, ST:TESB.

Vanguard does both, v and h scrolling.

 

But, way back in VCS days it was mostly space themed, Nintendo only changed the player from a space ship to a person.

Edited by high voltage
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But 2600 could do horizontally very well, there's Barnstorming, Grand Prix, Stampede to name just three from around 1981, 1982. And Moon Patrol, Defender, ST:TESB.

Vanguard does both, v and h scrolling.

 

But, way back in VCS days it was mostly space themed, Nintendo only changed the player from a space ship to a person.

 

True. And let's not forget about Moon Patrol.

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But 2600 could do horizontally very well, there's Barnstorming, Grand Prix, Stampede to name just three from around 1981, 1982. And Moon Patrol, Defender, ST:TESB.

Vanguard does both, v and h scrolling.

 

But, way back in VCS days it was mostly space themed, Nintendo only changed the player from a space ship to a person.

 

I think that's the key. Surely nobody would care or even notice if space-themed games were scrolling around. It was the change to being "on the ground" and scrolling side-to-side with a side view that mattered. And only because those games also added the character element. That made the game cute. Defender isn't cute, it scrolls side-to-side. Neither is Scramble. But the Mario Brothers games scroll and are cute, same goes for Sonic and others like them. It's the cute aspect that drove me away from that console and its descendants.

 

And the reason cute worked was the better graphics. A few people here have mentioned the Zippy homebrew. I commend the programmer who made that and managed to get Zippy to look like more than just a stack of colored LEGOs, but the 2600 has such poor graphics that Zippy looks stunned or drugged and the playing area is boring looking. Not the programmer's fault, it's better looking than most 2600 scrolling games. But how much easier/better would it have been to make Zippy on one of the newer consoles with more graphics punch? The music doesn't compare, either. The 2600 simply wasn't ready for that sort of game, it was made more for space shooters. I love it for that but people like me who were with the 2600 at the beginning were used to those games, not cute side-scrollers or games that were more about characters than about killing everything that moved (most arcade games).

 

Nintendo and later consoles went with what was newer and more popular. Sure, they also addressed older arcade shooter type games but those were old and done already by that time, people had already seen those games on the 2600 and 5200 and other consoles. What, again? And with that dogshit controller? But the new approach, the sit down play this game for 6 hours and try to solve games (Pitfall type) were new. You couldn't do that in the arcade, you couldn't really do that with the 2600, either.

 

I mean, look at gaming now. Specifically those mindless, irritating smartphone app games like Candy Crush and all the derivatives. They're puzzle games yet somehow people want to play them. I suppose because a touch screen isn't a joystick or a paddle so the games have to adapt to the available control scheme. But, just like old 2600 game box art, the commercials for these miserable games are far far far more imaginative and fleshed out than the actual stupid puzzle games. Yet they seem to be popular, probably much moreso than playing Atari's Greatest Hits on the same smartphones. Not for me, of course, I paid $10 to get all those Atari games. Screw those cute puzzle games, I'm not 6 years old.

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I think that's the key. Surely nobody would care or even notice if space-themed games were scrolling around. It was the change to being "on the ground" and scrolling side-to-side with a side view that mattered. And only because those games also added the character element. That made the game cute. Defender isn't cute, it scrolls side-to-side. Neither is Scramble. But the Mario Brothers games scroll and are cute, same goes for Sonic and others like them. It's the cute aspect that drove me away from that console and its descendants.

 

And the reason cute worked was the better graphics. A few people here have mentioned the Zippy homebrew. I commend the programmer who made that and managed to get Zippy to look like more than just a stack of colored LEGOs, but the 2600 has such poor graphics that Zippy looks stunned or drugged and the playing area is boring looking. Not the programmer's fault, it's better looking than most 2600 scrolling games. But how much easier/better would it have been to make Zippy on one of the newer consoles with more graphics punch? The music doesn't compare, either. The 2600 simply wasn't ready for that sort of game, it was made more for space shooters. I love it for that but people like me who were with the 2600 at the beginning were used to those games, not cute side-scrollers or games that were more about characters than about killing everything that moved (most arcade games).

 

Nintendo and later consoles went with what was newer and more popular. Sure, they also addressed older arcade shooter type games but those were old and done already by that time, people had already seen those games on the 2600 and 5200 and other consoles. What, again? And with that dogshit controller? But the new approach, the sit down play this game for 6 hours and try to solve games (Pitfall type) were new. You couldn't do that in the arcade, you couldn't really do that with the 2600, either.

 

I mean, look at gaming now. Specifically those mindless, irritating smartphone app games like Candy Crush and all the derivatives. They're puzzle games yet somehow people want to play them. I suppose because a touch screen isn't a joystick or a paddle so the games have to adapt to the available control scheme. But, just like old 2600 game box art, the commercials for these miserable games are far far far more imaginative and fleshed out than the actual stupid puzzle games. Yet they seem to be popular, probably much moreso than playing Atari's Greatest Hits on the same smartphones. Not for me, of course, I paid $10 to get all those Atari games. Screw those cute puzzle games, I'm not 6 years old.

Because god forbid that some games actually look nice to play and dont take themselves super seriously. But then having fun and having fun looking games are obviously "kiddy." Sounds more like a severe case of arrested development. But then again CS Lewis noticed this trend too:

 

 

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

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Because god forbid that some games actually look nice to play and dont take themselves super seriously. But then having fun and having fun looking games are obviously "kiddy." Sounds more like a severe case of arrested development. But then again CS Lewis noticed this trend too:

 

 

Would you please

 

1) lighten up,

 

2) read what I wrote, not what you infer from what I wrote,

 

3) understand where this conversation is coming from.

 

Lighten up. Nobody (especially me) has anything against having fun. Your definition of "looks nice to play" is your own, not some sort of universal standard. I think vector games look beautiful, especially Star Trek: SOS and Tempest. I think raster games like Xevious and Wizard Of Wor and Defender and Rally-X look great. And they're fun. Do you understand? Get someone to help you if you don't. Most arcade games look nice to play. Can't really say that about most 2600 games but the 5200 games looked great, too.

 

What's obviously "kiddy" is taking comments presented in a forum conversation personally and reacting defensively about them. The original question was why newer people getting into retro games skip the Atari. Nobody can say for sure but they can guess or have ideas about why. Simply comparing NES/SNES games to Atari 2600 games, both graphically and also via gameplay, can give you some good hints. I (and others) are trying to decipher those hints. You don't like it, find another conversation where everyone agrees and talks about how cute games are. There is no way to claim that most Atari games were cute. Most were arcade ports or rip-offs of arcade game play and those games are mostly not cute, they are kill everything and they look primitive. NES side-scroller based games are cute, they are exploratory, and they have the worst controller ever designed. They are far away from the typical 2600-type game. The few 2600 games that delved into that type of gameplay looked inferior and played inferior due to the poorer graphics and less memory. Two different console types.

 

Whiners who treat 'adult' as a personal attack on themselves because they don't want to acknowledge that they like/prefer cutesy video games, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about what others say about favorite video game types, to hide behind quoted passages from famous people in order to appear morally superior or right by association with some social majority; these things are the marks of being intolerant of differing opinions. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being too tightly connected to cutesy games is a mark of playing the victim. When I was ten I played the Atari 2600 because that's all there was, when I was a little older I went to arcades to play better video games. Now that I'm almost 50 I still play those types of games while others who grew up with more powerful consoles got into different games with more background story and bigger worlds to explore and cuter characters to identify with and worse controllers to play them with. When I became a man I put away childish things, including concerning myself with overly-sensitive forum members who cannot stay on topic but instead twist every comment that goes against their way of gaming life as some sort of indictment of what they hold dear.

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Um, just about every retro title is considered kiddy in some way, I don't understand what you're saying. Call of Duty is what you should be playing for your realistic graphics, killing everything and military manly type themes, but it doesn't appear you do. You still play the same arcade titles, all of which looked cartoony in that era. No one plays cute games anymore, that's why you have to buy a Wii U if you don't want to exclusively play FPS games. and obviously retro gamers don't want to just play FPS or the scene would be as big as it is. That's why games like Hotline Miami and Retro City Rampage were popular; retro style graphics and violent. It just didn't exist back then. So you have to make due with what you got. And I certainly don't consider 2600 games to have edgy design... half the things you can barely make out to begin with.

 

People aren't skipping Atari because it wasn't cute enough, they skipped it because you didn't know what the fuck was a tree and what was a football half the time. There are plenty, plenty of cute games for the 2600 people would find if they wanted to play them. It's not like there's some catastrophic curse sweeping Atari off the retro map, people don't give a damn about most everything non-NES/SNES. When you go from a vast, diverse library such as the NES and find yoursellf in Atariville, it's quite the shock. Because if you don't want to play primitive score based games (many of which you can find elsewhere ported to HD on newer consoles, to boot), you don't need the 2600. And if you do, you can play these games on most any console, the need to go back to the 2600 to play them is making things more difficult. People moderately interested are gonna buy Namco Museum or Taito Legends and get all this type of shit in one swoop with better features. I can't say they're all doing that, but I'm willing to bet you have a handful of those collections in every retro gamer's collection. We're also assuming that NES fans don't go back to the 2600 when we have no idea if they have Atari Anthology/Activision Anthology and thus have like 100 2600 games for like $15. I know Intellivision Lives! isn't perfect, but for $15 10 years ago, I bought it, enjoyed it and I consider it my Intellivision collection. Half the library was on it, why go through the expense and effort to get one? A lot of 2600 games in which they are ports are also on NES. So we can't just up and ignore the fact that while they may not have an Atari, it or at least with arcade collections, those "times" are likely still represented in their collections. This is the digital age - that counts.

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