What's the Worst Console You Ever Played?

[+darryl1970]

I like the Ms. Pacman for the 7800 best because the idea with makeup is that you apply it so you can't tell that you're wearing it.

Haha. Nice. I guess she's a little over done in the other versions, and I shouldn't judge based on shape.

[empsolo]

Ah. See - I was already old enough by the time the NES and SMS came out (14/15) that I already knew the difference having used computers a bit by then too, and I knew that the NES was kind of "cheating" by making the playfield graphics smaller. It always bugged me that lots of NES games cheaped out like that and used scams/tricks to try and compete, when they really were very limited. This is another example of my lack of respect for the NES, that is rooted in it's actual game and graphic performance, rather than any subjective personal opinion. It's not a matter really of whether I like it better, as much as another example of how it was inferior and a bit dated from a technical standpoint.

So essentially you are whining because the resolution is smaller in order render arcade accurate graphics. And you are desperately trying to justify your whining by claiming it's a trick/scam? Ignoring the fact that games the 7800 version of Galaga tend to get choppy after a few levels....

 

Top kek.

Edited January 13, 2016 by empsolo

[78001987]

So essentially you are whining because the resolution is smaller in order render arcade accurate graphics. And you are desperately trying to justify your whining by claiming it's a trick/scam? Ignoring the fact that games the 7800 version of Galaga tend to get choppy after a few levels....

 

Top kek.

I'm not whining about anything. I'm pointing out that lower resolution, fewer colors, and smaller playfields does not = better graphics.

 

but nice of you to add some cute 4chan creep-speak to your nasty insults. how about we stick to the particulars on the games and systems themselves, and you leave the personal comments out?

[78001987]

Why is it that some people here take comments about a given system so personally, when all we are really talking about is the games and systems themselves? I fully admit the library of both the SMS and 7800 are lacking in numbers, but I don't take personal offense when people point that out.

 

Some SMS games have flicker. Many do not. Some people don't like the controllers. The SMS library is about 250 games. Lots of them are good games, but were original titles or obscure arcade games.

 

Some 7800 games have bad sound. Others don't. The prosticks can be uncomfortable. Atari abandoned the system too early and supported it poorly. The library is very small at around 80 games (homebrews included). But the homebrew scene is fantastic, and the thing is a tank.

 

and yes - the NES has it's own problems too. Graphics are not as good sometimes. Colors are weak. Playfields are truncated and very small to allow faster, lower res graphics. Features are missing that exist in other versions of the same games. Lots of games have really bad flicker. The system has a serious problem with consistently working and playing games without lots of clean up and maintenance. and 700 + US titles, but maybe 10% of them are worth playing and half of those are truly "great". These are the reasons I said it was the worst I've played. key there being "i've played". I'm sure the Bandai Pippin or Virtual Boy are worse, but they are so random and poorly reviewed, I don't know why anyone would bother with them.

Edited January 13, 2016 by 78001987

[empsolo]

I'm not whining about anything. I'm pointing out that lower resolution, fewer colors, and smaller playfields does not = better graphics.

Except nobody cared in 1987 about lower resolutions, or the fact that that they had fewer colors. No one. Especially when the games were fun to play, looked better than their predecessors,and had kickass music. The 7800 looks incredibly ancient for a system that was supposed to be Atari's next gen and the Master System had games that looked colorful but looked like they were done in MS paint and played TERRIBLY. (Alex Kidd I'm looking at you)

 

but nice of you to add some cute 4chan creep-speak to your nasty insults. how about we stick to the particulars on the games and systems themselves, and you leave the personal comments out?

We could do that if you actually bothered to actually discuss the systems in good faith. Edited January 13, 2016 by empsolo

[CatPix]

The NES was (in my personal opinion) an extremely overrated system, with 95% shovelware, terrible flicker problems and an awful color palette, that broke down and stopped working correctly way too early and way too often. And it's arcade and PC/Compter game ports were routinely worse graphically and playability-wise, than every other home system it competed with.

 

It was popular because it was marketed well, and because they locked up nearly every 3rd party developer. Popularity doesn't equal quality. Britney Spears was insanely popular for a decade, and she is terrible.

 

were there "good" games for it? Sure. There's bound to be a few good games in a library of garbage that deep.

 

Quoting you back, just for reminder. And I do'nt quote but you said later that those things you said were actual, verifiable facts.

 

While all of the fact you point out in your comments are true, you are pushing them to the extreme.

Shovelware? Sure there is.95% of it? Really? So by your standard the 2600 is a big pile of useless garbage, too.

 

Flicker? On games with lots of sprites, yes, but not much more flicker than the SMS. I can't tell about the 7800 in fairness - tho the 7800 had other problems in the hardware department.

 

Awful color palette? It sure had few color choices than the 7800 and SMS, but on many games, it does well. It's more of a programming issue. It's not as if the NES had a 8 colors palette.

 

Breaking down? I dunno if some systems had more issues than other but my personnal experience is to have owned the same NES for 20 years, and I only pulled the 72 pins connector from it to clean it ONCE. and disabled the lock-out chip. Lors of game cleaning tho, but this is the same with all systems.

 

Graphically wise, we showed already that the 7800 ports were no superior at least in the graphical department.

 

 

Now, as you're happy to point out, the NES was the worst system you played.

Fine, I can see why.

Tho, backing it with mere personnal, biased points of view and calling those "absolute facts" isn't honest, and doesn't provide any interesting thing to read and discuss about in this thread that is in the line of the thread.

[empsolo]

Why is it that some people here take comments about a given system so personally, when all we are really talking about is the games and systems themselves? I fully admit the library of both the SMS and 7800 are lacking in numbers, but I don't take personal offense when people point that out.

Because generally Atari and Sega fanboys are upset that their particular 8 bit systems died here in the US and to a lesser extent in Japan and must try to re-fight the 8-bit wars of the 1980's. It's the video game equivalent of the Lost Cause.

 

 

Some SMS games have flicker. Many do not.

Except the terrible ports happened were Sega tried desperately to compete the NES version. See Double Dragon for the Master System.

 

 

Some people don't like the controllers.

Releasing a joystick when your competition has released a revolutionary gamepad that is suited for the games of the future doesn't really help..

 

 

The SMS library is about 250 games. Lots of them are good games,

But no must have killer app among them. Not even Sonic for the Master System made the Master System II anymore popular than it's predecessor in the early 1990's. Plus it didn't help that Sega only released 2 games in 1986, one of which was a light gun game and the other was a mediocre racing game.

 

 

but were original titles or obscure arcade games.

Or were ports of older arcade titles that people had played ad nausaeum.

 

 

Most 7800 games have bad sound. Others don't.

FTFY.

 

It was entirely Atari's fault that they gimped the system by not including advanced sound hardware on the system to compete with newer systems. Instead they forced prospective developers to either use their own chips for better sound or using the standard and ancient 2600 sound. Whereas the Famicom and SMS gave devs the option of using their own sound chips or working with stock yet modern sound hardware.

 

 

 

The prosticks can be uncomfortable. Atari abandoned the system too early and supported it poorly.

How is this a plus for the system?

 

 

The library is very small at around 80 games (homebrews included). But the homebrew scene is fantastic, and the thing is a tank.

And? 30 years later and still nobody can actually develop a game that rivals early first party nintendo titles let alone late ones like SMB 3 or Kirby's adventure.

 

and yes - the NES has it's own problems too. Graphics are not as good sometimes.

Debateable. In terms of color? Sure. But NES games had better aesthetics in terms of character design and layout than a lot of SMS and 7800 games.

 

 

 

Playfields are truncated

They aren't noticeably different.

 

 

and very small to allow faster, lower res graphics.

Which is why games on the 7800 will get choppy after a while.

 

 

Features are missing that exist in other versions of the same games.

False. Many of the arcade ports were done very early in the Famicom's life. Games like Donkey Kong and Donkey Jr were released as part of the pulseline launch line up. They have missing features because Nintendo either was dealing with legal battles over the extra features found in the arcade ports or Nintendo could not push the early carts too hard. Especially when the price for rom chips were very expensive.

 

Lots of games have really bad flicker.

Not any more different than their Master System equivalents. And in many cases were better. Plus I don't mind sprite flicker for things like hit detection.

 

 

The system has a serious problem with consistently working and playing games without lots of clean up and maintenance.

As long as you didn't live in a pig pen, the system operated fine. I had only one NES and the system stayed with me through my child until I sold it in order to help pay for an N64.

and 700 + US titles, but maybe 10% of them are worth playing and half of those are truly "great".

If you say only 10% are worth playing that tells me you haven't dug deep into this system at all.

 

 

 

These are the reasons I said it was the worst I've played.

That's your opinion. But, you know what they say about opinions... Edited January 14, 2016 by empsolo

[Osgeld]

That's your opinion. But, you know what they say about opinions...

 

They are worth arguing over like 2 months after the world moved on ?

[+darryl1970]

If I might add:

 

2600, 5200, 7800, NES, SMS.... I can't personally label any of them as the "WORST" system I've ever played.

 

7800 was my biggest disappointment, because I read about it in 1983 or 84..

They touted it was a giant leap over the previous home game systems.

I expected higher resolution sprites and, at least, sound equal to the 8-bits.

 

I was disappointed when I read the article it was cancelled. I was SO EXCITED when I saw it was being released 2 years later.

Then I was disappointed again. The games weren't as high paced and challenging as my 5200 games were and the sound was horrible.

Plus I already had a Nintendo Entertainment System. The Nintendo had a little extra processing power to push more action.

The games were smoother and higher resolution. I was VERY DISAPPOINTED.

 

But, the worst console is still the Odyssey2 for me. I don't even HATE that one. It just seemed awkward. lol.

The games didn't have lives. The games reused some of the same sprites. It was just out left.

[bretthorror]

The Atari 7800 is definitely the most forgettable major console of all time. It just served so little of a purpose in that era and more importantly to the present or the history of video games. Not only was the console extremely dated at the time, but it couldn't even future proof itself because most of its good titles came out on other consoles in better versions, or flash forward a few years, would come out in exact arcade quality ports. There's a lot of incentive to go back to the NES to play Duck Hunt, Super Mario 3 or Excitebike, you can emulate those games or play them only on NES. Problem with the 7800 is you can basically get a better version of each game somewhere else, making it the least fun system to collect or play for. I'd tell a guy who likes Super Mario 3D World on Wii U to check out Super Mario 3 in a heartbeat, but I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to tell a kid playing a Ms. Pac-Man plug n' play to go back and play a humdrum 7800 version. There's just no reason to revisit it. The Sega Master System on the other hand has a lot of solid titles that Nintendo fanboys choose to overlook, but the system at least served its place in time giving good arcade ports of more current titles to the masses. And they had to start somewhere if they wanted to be a hardware manufacturer. I don't mind fanboys being fanboys, but if Kid Icarus is a classic, then the SMS had its share because there are a lot of games on the system that are as fun as Kid Icarus. Playing enjoyable shitty NES games is all the rage... but enjoyable bad or mediocre games on any other console = lame. It's kind of ridiculous with that double standard.

 

Unfortunately for the 7800, there was no reason to buy it over a NES or SMS. And in today's world, there's no reason unless you're hardcore into these things to buy a 7800 to play arcade games when it's easy to find the real arcade version on compilations or MAME. You tend to visit original hardware for its individuality, of which the 7800 has none. When its games are better elsewhere and the exclusives it does have have no life to them, in 2016, I see no real need for anyone but folks like us to stop in 7800ville.

[Tempest]

The 7800 had one of the best versions of Food Fight though. I think only some of the computers (ST, Amiga, etc.) got ports of it until they finally released on some of those arcade compilations during the PS2 era. The Atari 8-bit version is an abomination unto the Lord and doesn't count.

[Osgeld]

I think you might be right for average "dip your toes in" retro gamers, there are some titles on the 7800 that are unique, and it serves as a twofer serving up its games and 2600 games as well.

 

I recently bought, refurbed and sold both a NES and 7800 with in the same year, both brought in about the same money, both were easy as tossing it up in the air to sell... but in the short time of having both consoles I did enjoy the 7800 more as a games machine

 

as I said in a earlier post, 16 bit systems do NES games so much better and I dont really enjoy NES games ... and in addition the 7800 feels more like a raw machine, which sucks ass for sales in 1980 whatever but in 2016 they are really two different experiences

[+Defender_2600]

... By 1984, a system made to reproduce Ms Pac-Man should have been able to make a round Pac-Man. Galaga had weird flight patterns, which were jerky and floaty. The ship looked nothing like the arcade. The stars were oblong grey rectangles. ...

 

Galaga

Arcade NES 7800

GalagaArcade.png GalagaNES.jpg 7800Galaga.png

 

NES VS Arcade Galaga.jpg

 

Ms Pac-Man

Arcade NES (Namco) NES Tengen

MsPacArcade.gif MsPacNES1.png TengenNESMsPac.png

 

Atari 7800 (The only non-round Ms) Sega Master System (Attempt to shade and make it look modern). Succeed or not, it was more color and higher resolution!

7800 MsPac.png MsPacSMS.png

 

ColecoVision Ms Pac!!!!! WTH??? Even the previous generation system had a ROUND Ms Pac-Man!! (without the bounding boxes of Pac320)

ColecoVision Ms Pac.png

 

Dig Dug

Arcade NES 7800 (What is the scrunched Dig Dug guy???)

DigDugArcade.jpg DigDugNES.png DigDug7800.png

 

 

She isn't! She's an octagon with uneven sides.

 

It might be hard to tell from a screenshot, so I zoomed in on the pixels. The 7800 pixels are about 1.6x wider than the NES or even ColecoVision pixels.

 

Even thought the 7800 had more simultaneous and independent colors, the pixels were no smaller than the 2600, 5200, and Atari Computers. (There was a 320 mode, but it was crippled and not used. And example is shown at the bottom of the image.)

 

Here is a blown up image, showing each system's sprites for Ms Pac-Man. The 7800 is using the same level of detail as the 2600 and 7800. It only offers more colors, as far as details. Even the ColecoVision allowed more detail at a small size.

 

Now the huge strength was that the 7800 could display LARGE numbers of these sprites without flicker. That made it stronger for SOME things. I would still take the 7800 limitations over the ColecoVision detail, as the Coleco struggled with more than 4 sprites on one level. It also needed multiple sprites to make multi-colored characters. Thus, Mario was 3 sprites in DK. ColecoVision topped out at a decent Pac and DK. Ms Pac-Man is two in the image, as are the monsters. However, EVERY other system, except the VCS, had an advantage over sound, unless a chip was added on cartridge. ...

 

7800VsARCADEvsNES.png

 

 

The pixel resolution of the standard 7800 and 5200 game is 160 horizontal pixels. (320 mode is mostly useless on both systems)

The standard sprites on the ColecoVision and NES are 256 horizontal pixels.

 

That means 1.6 pixels could be fit inside one Atari pixel. ..

 

There is nowhere left to put a proper bow on Ms Pac 7800. Likewise, adding the lipstick makes her look weird.

 

The echo was good, but it was missing the bass line. It is far from accurate, and the graphics are way off. Compare to the arcade and NES if you get a chance. It

's night and day!

 

 

I didn't like what I wrote about Galaga 7800. I got called aside and rushed to submit. This is more how I feel.

 

The echo was good, but it was missing the bass line. It feels a little hallow, but they did do an excellent job for just using the TIA. It is still off, but I am impressed with that. "Far from accurate" was unfair for me to say, because it's VERY impressive for the TIA! I am totally not into the graphics. It doesn't FEEL arcade to me. it feels 7800.

 

The NES has smoother alien movement in flight formations, better sound, arcade-perfect graphics, and a better than arcade starfield (different colors move at different speeds, giving it a depth).

 

The 7800 aliens are less choppy in their positions at the top of the screen, because they are all sprites instead of tiles; but that doesn't affect gameplay. The NES blue aliens swoop under and around the players ship, just like the arcade. Everything just feels more arcade-like on the NES.

 

However, the 7800 has a great title screen, and it is impressive for a first try at Galaga in the US. No other system had conquered it, and it was one of the first developed games. Other versions overseas didn't include the bonus rounds in that day!

 

Again, it's more about looking at things objectively than picking. I am big on arcade accuracy for gameplay and graphics.

 

I wonder if the 7800 Galaga could have had a multi-color starfield. Even the A8/5200 did that in Galaxian. I would think the 7800 should be able to also. I wish they would have done that. I think sprites are more cosmetic than ability of the system.. The 7800 won't be able to match the detail of the NES, but the aliens could be drawn smaller. The ship SHOULD be bigger and more detailed.

 

Maybe a hack could help alleviate some of the lacking visual detail! The alien space patterns might be tougher.

 

 

 

So generalizing ...high resolution BUT poor palette, low number of color, low number of _small_ sprites, abundant flicker ...

...or low _horizontal_ resolution (with the advantage of wide pixels) and huge palette, high number of colors, high number of _large_ sprites, no flicker ...

 

Therefore, again: the 7800 320 mode (320×240) shows square pixels (pixel aspect ratio: 0.9 NTSC and 1.0 PAL) and can replicate the correct aspect ratio of the arcade graphics.

Asteroids Deluxe, AstroBlaster, Astro Fighter, CrazyBrix, Dungeon Stalker, Frenzy/Berzerk, Froggie, Moon Cresta, One on One Basketball, Pac-Man 320 / Ms. Pac-Man 320, Rip-Off, Scramble, Space Invaders,Tower Toppler: these 7800 games are all made in 320 mode!

 

The NES with 256 horizontal pixels by 240 vertical pixels display wide pixels and therefore wide sprites/tiles compared to arcade graphics / 7800 320 mode . Same goes for ColecoVision, Sega Master System, CoCo 3, etc., for these systems the pixel aspect ratio is approximately 1.2 NTSC and 1.4 PAL.

 

On the other hand, the 7800 160 mode (1.7 NTSC pixel aspect ratio ) can display a large number of color and an enormous number of sprites on the screen, each sprite/ tile can use from 3 to _12_ colors plus transparency _without limits of size (great flexibility)_ and flickering absent.

The 7800 features a broad palette of 256 colors, in layman's terms it means having more than a dozen of blue, green, orange, etc., that you could use it to design night scenery, forests, sunsets, etc., therefore the color depth can be considerable despite of the wide pixel aspect ratio.

The NES features a palette of just 53 colors, 8x8 tiles / 3 colors, 8x8 or 8x16 sprites / 3 colors. In conclusion, each system has its strengths.

 

 

Darryl, putting words into action, you watch carefully the following images and 7800 Mess screenshots , play 7800 Ms. Pac-Man 320 _exclusively under Mess_ (you will see _little_ black box around the sprites, ProSystem creates an _enormous_ black box as artifact!) and download my 'round' 160 Ms. Pac-Man (Graphics Hack) (WIP) with proper lipstick and nice bow!

[gamecat80]

and there are graphics comparisons of the same games existing on NES and other systems like SMS, 7800 - and nearly across the board the graphics are lower resolution, poorly drawn, using a limited color palette, and demonstrably inferior in pretty much every way to their ports on competing consoles.

 

 

LOL, you must be talking about the 7800. The NES has the highest native/out-of-the-box pixel resolution of the 3 mentioned consoles. The NES is known for it's hi-res (for it's time) rounded, "cartoony" graphics and great sound. The 7800 isn't.

 

One of my biggest 'beefs' with the Atari systems is the lower-res, blocky graphics compared to the competition. Compare the Atari 2600 vs. Astrocade......Atari 5200 vs. ColecoVision......Atari 7800 vs. NES & SMS and see. Look closely at the games on those systems and compare the sprites and background graphics -- look to see how 'round' or 'blocky' they look!

 

I'm quoting Darryl1970s' post below so you can read it again:

 

 

I often play my 2600, 5200, ColecoVision, 7800 and NES on my Sony Vega 4:3 TV.

The pixels are smaller on the ColecoVision and NES.

 

The pixel resolution of the standard 7800 and 5200 game is 160 horizontal pixels. (320 mode is mostly useless on both systems)

The standard sprites on the ColecoVision and NES are 256 horizontal pixels.

 

That means 1.6 pixels could be fit inside one Atari pixel.

 

 

 

I'm not whining about anything. I'm pointing out that lower resolution, fewer colors, and smaller playfields does not = better graphics.

 

 

Again, the NES (and ColecoVision and SMS, for that matter) has native higher-res graphics than the 7800.

[78001987]

Except nobody cared in 1987 about lower resolutions, or the fact that that they had fewer colors. No one. Especially when the games were fun to play, looked better than their predecessors,and had kickass music. The 7800 looks incredibly ancient for a system that was supposed to be Atari's next gen and the Master System had games that looked colorful but looked like they were done in MS paint and played TERRIBLY. (Alex Kidd I'm looking at you)

Yeah - this isn't even worth discussing with you now. You're just looking for an argument. /ignore listed

[78001987]

The Atari 7800 is definitely the most forgettable major console of all time. It just served so little of a purpose in that era and more importantly to the present or the history of video games. Not only was the console extremely dated at the time, but it couldn't even future proof itself because most of its good titles came out on other consoles in better versions, or flash forward a few years, would come out in exact arcade quality ports. There's a lot of incentive to go back to the NES to play Duck Hunt, Super Mario 3 or Excitebike, you can emulate those games or play them only on NES. Problem with the 7800 is you can basically get a better version of each game somewhere else, making it the least fun system to collect or play for. I'd tell a guy who likes Super Mario 3D World on Wii U to check out Super Mario 3 in a heartbeat, but I'd be hard pressed to find a reason to tell a kid playing a Ms. Pac-Man plug n' play to go back and play a humdrum 7800 version. There's just no reason to revisit it. The Sega Master System on the other hand has a lot of solid titles that Nintendo fanboys choose to overlook, but the system at least served its place in time giving good arcade ports of more current titles to the masses. And they had to start somewhere if they wanted to be a hardware manufacturer. I don't mind fanboys being fanboys, but if Kid Icarus is a classic, then the SMS had its share because there are a lot of games on the system that are as fun as Kid Icarus. Playing enjoyable shitty NES games is all the rage... but enjoyable bad or mediocre games on any other console = lame. It's kind of ridiculous with that double standard.

 

Unfortunately for the 7800, there was no reason to buy it over a NES or SMS. And in today's world, there's no reason unless you're hardcore into these things to buy a 7800 to play arcade games when it's easy to find the real arcade version on compilations or MAME. You tend to visit original hardware for its individuality, of which the 7800 has none. When its games are better elsewhere and the exclusives it does have have no life to them, in 2016, I see no real need for anyone but folks like us to stop in 7800ville.

anyone who has ever seen or played or been a part of the Atari 7800 Homebrew game scene is laughing like a hyena at this nonsense.

[+darryl1970]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So generalizing ...high resolution BUT poor palette, low number of color, low number of _small_ sprites, abundant flicker ...

...or low _horizontal_ resolution (with the advantage of wide pixels) and huge palette, high number of colors, high number of _large_ sprites, no flicker ...

 

Therefore, again: the 7800 320 mode (320×240) shows square pixels (pixel aspect ratio: 0.9 NTSC and 1.0 PAL) and can replicate the correct aspect ratio of the arcade graphics.

Asteroids Deluxe, AstroBlaster, CrazyBrix, Dungeon Stalker, Frenzy/Berzerk, Froggie, Moon Cresta, One on One Basketball, Pac-Man 320 / Ms. Pac-Man 320, Rip-Off, Scramble, Space Invaders,Tower Toppler: these 7800 games are all made in 320 mode!

 

The NES with 256 horizontal pixels by 240 vertical pixels display wide pixels and therefore wide sprites/tiles compared to arcade graphics / 7800 320 mode . Same goes for ColecoVision, Sega Master System, CoCo 3, etc., for these systems the pixel aspect ratio is approximately 1.2 NTSC and 1.4 PAL.

 

On the other hand, the 7800 160 mode (1.7 NTSC pixel aspect ratio ) can display a large number of color and an enormous number of sprites on the screen, each sprite/ tile can use from 3 to _12_ colors plus transparency _without limits of size (great flexibility)_ and flickering absent.

The 7800 features a broad palette of 256 colors, in layman's terms it means having more than a dozen of blue, green, orange, etc., that you could use it to design night scenery, forests, sunsets, etc., therefore the color depth can be considerable despite of the wide pixel aspect ratio.

The NES features a palette of just 53 colors, 8x8 tiles / 3 colors, 8x8 or 8x16 sprites / 3 colors. In conclusion, each system has its strengths.

 

 

Darryl, putting words into action, you watch carefully the following images and 7800 Mess screenshots , play 7800 Ms. Pac-Man 320 _exclusively under Mess_ (you will see _little_ black box around the sprites, ProSystem creates an _enormous_ black box as artifact!) and download my 'round' 160 Ms. Pac-Man (Graphics Hack) (WIP) with proper lipstick and nice bow!

 

 

Thanks for pointing out that ProSystem makes the black box bigger in 320 Pac & Ms. I thought I had seen a version with a smaller box. It still really bothers me that the box is there. I think the 320 mode would have been the key to truly surpassing the 5200/A8 as next gen. They did, but not to the degree I was hoping for. Despite that, I do realize that most of my complaints about the 7800 were more of a programming or sound issue than anything else. There is an art to pushing the 160 mode to its limits. I had a lot of fun giving DK Jr for the A8 a makeover!

(Arcade Hack) (Enhanced) Video

The 7800's extra colors make that even better than it was on the 5200/A8. If a game can take advantage of the 320 mode, then it is truly a homerun, as many of the arcade games were only 256 x 288 or something like that.

 

First -- Very nice work on the Ms Pac-Man hack. In hacking that game, I am sure you realize my frustration with making 160 the more usable mode. This is especially obvious when trying to make a Pac-Man character face up or down. The pixels tend to make the mouth gap a little off. (Much in the way the vertical frames in Dig Dug look like a blob) Additionally, having to sacrifice truly round eyes or making the monsters cross-eye'd to go up and down, are a sacrifice I didn't want to have to make in the "next generation", back in 1984. However, I praise your work! You really arranged the pixels in a way that I barely noticed. It was a very nice job. Is it possible to give her the mole, or is the pixel left behind too big?

 

I have to say that I do see that the pixel size is a little exaggerated in emulation, when compared to an actual NTSC. I spent some time in my "arcade" last night, and I played 2600, 5200, ColecoVision, 7800, and NES. They were all very entertaining in their own way.

 

I think the biggest issues with the 7800 are poor programming. For example, Kung Fu Master has a better looking background. The characters have the POTENTIAL to be more detailed than the NES, but they are skinny, missing frames, and drawn poorly. The colors make it appear that their feet aren't attached. Worse yet is the programming causes the enemies to approach the player slower when walking toward them. It's totally backward. Additionally, the kick position is missing, the enemies do not interact properly, and the controls are terrible.

 

Real TV -- Even though the pixels do not look AS big on the 7800, they don't on the NES either

KungFu Master

Atari 7800 (I would prefer this, even though the characters are poorly drawn, if I hadn't played and heard it)

 

NES

 

Ms Pac-Man

Arcade

 

Atari 5200

 

ColecoVision

 

Atari 7800

 

NES (Namco Version / Tengen Version)

 

 

Galaga

7800 (Looking at this has inspired a graphics hack. I think this might just be poor artwork, although the game is TOO easy and the stars are mono)

 

NES

 

 

78001987 -- The emulators really DO blow the pixels out of proportion. I just feel they do that it is true to some extent across the board. However, the 7800 does get it a little rougher than some of the systems!

 

I would not say the 7800 sucks. I think it does have a lot more potential, which is evident by the homebrew scene. I am glad that homebrewers are taking advantage of the 320 mode. When possible, that is huge. Atari suffered in the programming department by the time of the release of the 7800. It sounds as if they weren't willing to pay and had ridiculous deadlines. What programmer would do well under some of those conditions? The initial games had GCC programmers, but they didn't have a very high bar to compare to at that time. I suppose, as ugly as 7800 Galaga is, it was a step over the current crop in 1983-84. The 7800 could probably do better. I enjoy these discussions, because it helps me to see other perspectives, as mine has always been a little jaded and disappointed. However, I always WANTED the 7800 to be all I read about. I can see where it is a little more capable than what I have seen.

[bretthorror]

anyone who has ever seen or played or been a part of the Atari 7800 Homebrew game scene is laughing like a hyena at this nonsense.

 

o noes teh 7800 ppl r laffin @ me

[+wongojack]

Personally, I admire the work going into 7800 homebrews, but as someone who wasn't part of the system when it was new, I don't really get excited about better arcade ports (finally) brought to the system. I'd rather see ports from other systems or original games. Whenever someone talks about how great the homebrews are (for 7800), I usually tune out because I've already played every Pac Man game I ever want to in my lifetime. I mean, I liked discovering Astroblaster in MAME, but I don't need to own a game like that on another system.

[dj_convoy]

Worst is hard to qualify.

Absolutely; even the things I like the least aren't necessarily bad. it's just that they don't have a lot of games I like.

 

The N64 springs to mind; I don't care for it, but I do have a few games I do enjoy for it. I'm glad I own one, even if I don't spend a lot of time with it.

 

As a SEGA dork, I wish I liked the Game Gear better than I do... it has some cool games, but I am not a fan of the unit itself or playing games on it.

 

Virtual Boy is a pain in the... eye to use, and doesn't really have a killer app, imo. I may get around to buying one ( I collect consoles of most stripe)... but not any time soon. I've not enjoyed it the couple of times I've messed around with one.

 

I'm not a fan of the Jaguar, but I've probably not spent enough time with one to definitively state that it is "the worst."

[VectorGamer]

I mean, I liked discovering Astroblaster in MAME, but I don't need to own a game like that on another system.

 

That's something I've been struggling with lately. Most of the console and computer games I play are arcade translations because I was an arcade rat BITD and those are the games I know. I have fun playing them but I often wonder why I just don't sell of my collection and get an Xarcade controller, a desktop and just play games in MAME.

[bretthorror]

That's something I've been struggling with lately. Most of the console and computer games I play are arcade translations because I was an arcade rat BITD and those are the games I know. I have fun playing them but I often wonder why I just don't sell of my collection and get an Xarcade controller, a desktop and just play games in MAME.

That's kind of been my mindset for years now that I've experienced the old systems. It's cool to see Pac-Man or Jungle Hunt on the 2600 but when you can play basically the real thing on MAME or get it in compilations, I really fail to see the overwhelming reason to even really have these games on lesser systems. They were relevant in their times much more than now. I'll piss around with lesser ports, don't get me wrong but it's so redundant.

 

I usually emulate in my Ouya using Wii controllers connected to a Wii stick, but I had to buy an extension cord for USB so I could use MAME with a stick since it's not compatible with Wii shit. I just didn't want to play the NES Donkey Kong, etc. Why when you have the real thing?

[mbd30]

That's kind of been my mindset for years now that I've experienced the old systems. It's cool to see Pac-Man or Jungle Hunt on the 2600 but when you can play basically the real thing on MAME or get it in compilations, I really fail to see the overwhelming reason to even really have these games on lesser systems. They were relevant in their times much more than now. I'll piss around with lesser ports, don't get me wrong but it's so redundant.

 

I usually emulate in my Ouya using Wii controllers connected to a Wii stick, but I had to buy an extension cord for USB so I could use MAME with a stick since it's not compatible with Wii shit. I just didn't want to play the NES Donkey Kong, etc. Why when you have the real thing?

 

This is why it's a good thing that NES ports are often so different from the originals. "Contra", "Ninja Gaiden", "Punch-Out", "Double Dragon", "Ryger", "Strider", etc. are so different that they're still worth playing in their own right. They're not just trying to be an inferior clone.

Edited January 14, 2016 by mbd30

[78001987]

 

o noes teh 7800 ppl r laffin @ me

Hilarious how the two people who want to argue the most, are also the two who resort to idiotic 4chan/reddit dork-speak.

 

 

 

This is why it's a good thing that NES ports are often so different from the originals. "Contra", "Ninja Gaiden", "Punch-Out", "Double Dragon", "Ryger", "Strider", etc. are so different that they're still worth playing in their own right. They're not just trying to be an inferior clone.

Some of those can be fun, sure - But Double Dragon for NES is an absolute abomination. The game is called Double Dragon SPECIFICALLY because the Arcade (and 7800, and SMS, and every other version) allows Two Simultaneous players. That's the whole point of the game. Yet they left it out of the NES version, and still delivered flickery, watered down graphics as well.

In my mind, that is without a doubt, the worst Arcade to home console port ever released.

[Osgeld]

thought the point of double dragon was to save the girl while kicking ass, learned something today