What's the Worst Console You Ever Played?

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't know. I like all three of that era's non-budget consoles (all four if you count the XEGS), but it's such a stretch to me to put down the color depth, resolution, and other technical. factors of the NES, while not doing the same for the SMS and 7800, particularly since the latter two have such paltry libraries in comparison, and even if you're just talking about the handful of the same games available on each of the three respective systems. As for the the 7800's controllers, I find both the joystick and the gamepad dreadful. Why Atari couldn't come up with a decent controller after the 2600 (and in my opinion right up until the Jaguar Pro Controller) is beyond me.

[78001987]

I would like to see the game comparisons. Surely, yes, the early run of NES/Famicom games, from 1983 to 1986/87 were pretty average graphically. Limited color palette? In some games, but it feels like it appeared more in shovelwares. I never felt that good NES games lacked colors, but that's a personnal opinion (plus, limited palette doean't automatically mean it's crap... the Atari 2600 sucks in the RAM and audio departments and it did marvels dealing with so limited hardware anyway. I would say, it's even an admirable feature. Like reaching 88mph with a 40 liters engine is less impressive than reaching it with a 25cc engine).

 

As for the resolution, the NES is limited to a 256*240 screen size. But the SMS have two choices of 256*192 and 256*224; the Atari 7800 have a low res 160*240 resolution and a 320*240 resolution.

Admittedly, the Atari 7800 is the winner for resolution, but from what I know, only a handful of 7800 games used that high resolution mode. Whereas all NES games would have the same resolution.

 

Plus, talking about limitations, the 7800 had the worst sound chip (except for the few carts that use the amazing POKEY), The SMS had a decent but limited chip, and the NES had a good sound chip, backed with later add-ons that provided even more sound effects (and even more of them on the Famicom). Okay, it contradict a bit of what I said previously, but putting a 1977 sound chip in a 1984 console, while at the same time you own the best 8 bits sound chip since 1978 is just pure stupidity. One can mention also the FM synth chip that was built in Japaense SMS and that was never offered, even as add-on, on non Japanese SMS (and it's made worse by knowing that some of the PAL and US release of those games have the FM synthesis soundtracks still present and working if you have a Jap SMS or the TimRGB add-on)

 

 

For games released after 1987, you can't say that they are inferior to their counterparts. I would want to see the equivalent of SMB3 or Kirby on the 7800 ans SMS. As much as I like the SMS, I gotta admit that good SMS games came too late for it, and in very too few numbers.

And "every way" also include gameplay... and while I haven't played all the games that exist in the 3 consoles (which, to my knowledge, would be crappy sport games? What games made it on all 3 consoles? Not counting 100 years old arcade ports?) the NES had lots of excellent games backed up with excellent controls. For the SMS and 7800, one can mention the lack of a pause button on the pads; but heeh, game programmers aren't responsible from idiotic choices of the hardware makers.

I have nothing bad or good to say about the 7800 pad. It's ultra cheap but does the job well enough (and I think that the fact that both action buttons works as the action button on a 2600 is pure genius). The floaty square pad of the SMS make gameplay feeling much more hard to control than it should be tho.

The above highlighted comment is kinda scary. Every console has arcade ports, because those games are classics. Even in 1987, the arcade ports the NES, 7800, and SMS were doing were at oldest, 3-4 years old.

 

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

[Bill Loguidice]

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

 

Why don't you pick a few? I think many arcade ports were somewhat lazy or poorly programmed on all three, so I don't think we can necessarily compare much. There could also be more jerkiness on the SMS side at times and we know the 7800 almost always has the disadvantage of weaker sound. Of course the NES suffered from its fair share of flicker.

[CatPix]

The above highlighted comment is kinda scary. Every console has arcade ports, because those games are classics. Even in 1987, the arcade ports the NES, 7800, and SMS were doing were at oldest, 3-4 years old.

 

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

 

I feel like you missed the fact that it was a witty comment...

 

I don't count arcade games because they are usually from systems that are either working very differently from a console, or that come from platforms that are vastly superior in one or many points compared to consoles.

Either being more sprites, more colors, larger resolution, etc.. so comparison between arcade games and console ports can only prove that console hardware is different from arcade hardware.

The Atari 7800 will be better at static arcade ports with many sprites (like Pac Man or Galaga) because the hardware was designed around such things.

The NES will do much better on scrolling shooters like R-Type because the NES can do scrollings very easily because of the hardware.

Does it mean that one consoel is superior to the other? No, just that those consoles perform better in different cases.

 

I can try to tow a 32 tonnes trailer with a Ferrari. It won't work. Does it mean that Ferrari cars sucks?

Edited January 12, 2016 by CatPix

[Papa]

This all depends on perspective in my opinion. I find that if you focus on controllers then certain systems always stand out to me. The Jaguar is a great system in my opinion, but the controllers are totally retardulous. I liked the NES controllers after my hands realized they weren't Atari sticks, but having spent a lot of time on arcade games in my youth I was very disappointed at the horrible conversions and sheer number of crap games dumped on us from Nintendo. Double Dragon, Bad Dudes, Contra, Smash TV, etc. were okay after the initial realization that they were reworks of the theme within the game, or flicker-fest crap-graphics ports, but far from what I would consider a conversion. I loved the Colecovision for its graphics, but the controllers SUCK! Many game systems had horrible controllers that made the systems suck. The 3DO had daisy chained pads that ranged from stiff and wonky to floaty and acceptably precise. I could just see some kid playing a game and yanking the controller out of their buddies hands in mid game.

 

It's hard for me to choose a 'worst' because I think there are at least a handful of 'fun' games for most systems. I had the original, pea-green, headache inducer that was the Game Boy. Tetris draws you in and Super Mario Land induces the hurl. I wanted to like the Game.Com and bought it right when they first came out. I wasn't truly happy with anything for it until getting the lit-screen compact version much later. I really enjoyed Resident Evil 2 for the Tiger Game.Com. The Wonderswan was far superior to both, although, like many awesome things, it was stuck in Japan.

 

I would say that the worst game system of ALL TIME goes to the XBOX 360!

 

*SHOCK*

 

It's not that it didn't have a lot of fun games or halfway decent controllers. It could go online, update games, download stuff, play Netflix, and even play original XBOX games! I think it's the worst ever because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM until major changes were made to the mainboard ARE guaranteed to RROD no matter what! That SUCKS worse than ANYTHING! The original design called for a case that would breathe the scaler chip and allow the system to cool itself to only the heat of, say, the planet Venus. At the last minute some tard changed the case to plastic (insulator) which trapped heat and made the system a roaring inferno of star-like magnitude, causing it to unseat it's own freaking chips and die. I've X-Clamp modded them, IXtreme firmwared them, hacked games and done whatever I could and EVERY SINGLE original style 360 I've every owned RRODed!

 

Granted I own a modded slim model now that is great, but they screwed the customer initially and that infuriated me more than any other system ever has!!

Edited January 12, 2016 by Papa

[empsolo]

The above highlighted comment is kinda scary. Every console has arcade ports, because those games are classics. Even in 1987, the arcade ports the NES, 7800, and SMS were doing were at oldest, 3-4 years old.

 

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

Arcade ports. Maybe if Atari and Sega had dropped the "arcade at home" mindset and actually cultivated IP that people give a damn about then maybe just maybe both those companies would still be around today.

[+darryl1970]

The above highlighted comment is kinda scary. Every console has arcade ports, because those games are classics. Even in 1987, the arcade ports the NES, 7800, and SMS were doing were at oldest, 3-4 years old.

 

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

This is also completely subject to the arcade games in questions. First off, I am a huge Atari fan. With that said, the 7800 games I played NEVER made the NES look bad. If anything, the system really brought SHAME to me as an Atari fan. By 1984, a system made to reproduce Ms Pac-Man should have been able to make a round Pac-Man. Galaga had weird flight patterns, which were jerky and floaty. The ship looked nothing like the arcade. The stars were oblong grey rectangles. KungFu had low-res, muddied characters, which had reverse logic. The enemies didn't even play by the arcade rules? (eg: knife throwers ran off.. Enemies moved faster when walking away from them??)

 

I would accept a little bit of flicker to allow the higher resolution sprites of the NES, the better sound, and the smooth gameplay. The SMS was trying to port games that were more advanced than either system could handle, so it really didn't port the same games. I don't see Altered Beast working on the other systems, but that's okay since the Master System was developed after the aforementioned. It SHOULD have been more powerful. The SMS's problem was the lack of fun games. They didn't have many arcade titles to port, other than their own.

 

I am a "fanboy" for Atari, but I also like to keep it real. When I got my NES, I couldn't believe how close they brought the arcade to home.

I respect the 7800 for what it is. I know it COULD do better than what we got to see, but it was still severely lacking.

I am not trying to BASH anything, I just have a tough time dealing with DENIAL of facts.

 

Galaga

Arcade NES 7800

 

 

Ms Pac-Man

Arcade NES (Namco) NES Tengen

 

Atari 7800 (The only non-round Ms) Sega Master System (Attempt to shade and make it look modern). Succeed or not, it was more color and higher resolution!

 

ColecoVision Ms Pac!!!!! WTH??? Even the previous generation system had a ROUND Ms Pac-Man!! (without the bounding boxes of Pac320)

 

Dig Dug

Arcade NES 7800 (What is the scrunched Dig Dug guy???)

 

Donkey Kong

Arcade NES 7800

 

Sega Master System

Games the others would be challenged to mimic at that detail. Rightfully so, as it was the last machine developed.

[+wongojack]

She looks round in that screenshot to me.

[BassGuitari]

Even in 1987, the arcade ports the NES, 7800, and SMS were doing were at oldest, 3-4 years old.

Donkey Kong, Galaga, and Ms. Pac-Man date from 1981 IIRC, and I believe Dig Dug, DKjr., and Robotron were from 1982. Asteroids launched in 1979, and Centipede in 1980. By 1987 those games would have been 5-8 years old and veritable fossils in videogame years, especially by the standards to which arcade games had evolved by then.

 

If you compare these arcade ports to their originals, and against each other, the SMS and 7800 routinely make the NES look terrible in comparison.

Could I get the name of your optometrist?

 

[78001987]

Could I get the name of your optometrist?

 

http://huguesjohnson.com/features/nes-vs-sms/

[+darryl1970]

She looks round in that screenshot to me.

She isn't! She's an octagon with uneven sides.

 

It might be hard to tell from a screenshot, so I zoomed in on the pixels. The 7800 pixels are about 1.6x wider than the NES or even ColecoVision pixels.

 

Even thought the 7800 had more simultaneous and independent colors, the pixels were no smaller than the 2600, 5200, and Atari Computers. (There was a 320 mode, but it was crippled and not used. And example is shown at the bottom of the image.)

 

Here is a blown up image, showing each system's sprites for Ms Pac-Man. The 7800 is using the same level of detail as the 2600 and 7800. It only offers more colors, as far as details. Even the ColecoVision allowed more detail at a small size.

 

Now the huge strength was that the 7800 could display LARGE numbers of these sprites without flicker. That made it stronger for SOME things. I would still take the 7800 limitations over the ColecoVision detail, as the Coleco struggled with more than 4 sprites on one level. It also needed multiple sprites to make multi-colored characters. Thus, Mario was 3 sprites in DK. ColecoVision topped out at a decent Pac and DK. Ms Pac-Man is two in the image, as are the monsters. However, EVERY other system, except the VCS, had an advantage over sound, unless a chip was added on cartridge.

 

My big disappointment in the 7800 was that it was not the leap forward it should have been. Nintendo set out to release a system that could reproduce Donkey Kong. They succeeded, even though they didn't program a perfect version. Heck Super Mario was perfect! GCC's effort fell short in two important areas -- a usable, higher resolution, and better sound out of the box!

 

Sorry, I get wounded and emotional when I think back to how excited I was to see the 7800 I read about in 1984.

My main "point" was that I don't understand how anybody could think the 7800 and SMS looked bad in comparison to the shameful ProSystem.

[+darryl1970]

Donkey Kong, Galaga, and Ms. Pac-Man date from 1981 IIRC, and I believe Dig Dug, DKjr., and Robotron were from 1982. Asteroids launched in 1979, and Centipede in 1980. By 1987 those games would have been 5-8 years old and veritable fossils in videogame years, especially by the standards to which arcade games had evolved by then.

 

Could I get the name of your optometrist?

 

I hope you want it to report him for incompetency and not to use his services! lol

[Jinroh]

7800VsARCADEvsNES.png

 

Wow that graphic really tells a tale. The Master System Ms. Pac WTF did they do? That's one case where better graphics, is a detriment.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Jinroh

[+thegoldenband]

http://huguesjohnson.com/features/nes-vs-sms/

 

While some of the comparisons he chooses are really weird -- Kung Fu vs. Kung Fu Kid? Hydlide vs. Ys, though admittedly a joke? Psycho Fox vs. SMB2 instead of Kid Kool? -- the end of this is actually pretty insightful:

 

As odd as it sounds, the Sega Master System may have failed because they tried too hard. By attempting to duplicate the arcade or PC experience on an 8-bit console they neglected to actually make the games something you'd want to play. Games ported to the NES were generally down-graded to better suit the hardware capabilities. Maybe this was Nintendo's direction, maybe it was a side-effect of trying to crank games out too quickly, maybe it was an accident, whatever the case it resulted in better games.

In my experience, SMS games often look great in screenshots, but just don't play well. Yeah, the color count is higher, but if the game's a choppy flickerfest or the gameplay is underbaked, what does it matter?

 

That said, the SMS clearly does edge the NES in certain cross-platform games, sure. What I have a harder time spotting are the wins for the 7800, besides Ballblazer, Winter Games, and maybe 1-2 others (Commando and Ikari Warriors seem like contenders but I haven't played them). Galaga is just kinda pathetic; no console that wants to compete with the NES and SMS should turn out an arcade port that looks so trashy, especially if arcade ports are its alleged strong suit.

[Tempest]

In my experience, SMS games often look great in screenshots, but just don't play well. Yeah, the color count is higher, but if the game's a choppy flickerfest or the gameplay is underbaked, what does it matter?

This. Also, what is it with the SMS and a lack of status boxes/HUD in games? They always just had the info pasted over the background at the top of the screen. It always looked a bit unfinished to me, even if it did offer more screen real estate for the game itself.

[mbd30]

http://huguesjohnson.com/features/nes-vs-sms/

 

"Box Score: Alright, on to the brawlers. We have the nearly impossible Battletoads for NES against the incredibly easy Streets of Rage for SMS. Streets of Rage looks darn good for an 8-bit game while Battletoads suffers through massive flicker problems. At the end of the day they're basically the same, run around and slug-out a never-ending barrage of identical foes."

 

Well, that's the stupidest thing that I'll read all day.

[78001987]

She isn't! She's an octagon with uneven sides.

 

It might be hard to tell from a screenshot, so I zoomed in on the pixels. The 7800 pixels are about 1.6x wider than the NES or even ColecoVision pixels.

Taht screenshot you posted is at the wrong Aspect ratio. That's not how it looks on a proper NTSC 4x3 TV. This is the problem with using Emulator screenshots for comparisons, sometimes they are just wrong.

[78001987]

 

While some of the comparisons he chooses are really weird -- Kung Fu vs. Kung Fu Kid? Hydlide vs. Ys, though admittedly a joke? Psycho Fox vs. SMB2 instead of Kid Kool? -- the end of this is actually pretty insightful:

 

In my experience, SMS games often look great in screenshots, but just don't play well. Yeah, the color count is higher, but if the game's a choppy flickerfest or the gameplay is underbaked, what does it matter?

 

That said, the SMS clearly does edge the NES in certain cross-platform games, sure. What I have a harder time spotting are the wins for the 7800, besides Ballblazer, Winter Games, and maybe 1-2 others (Commando and Ikari Warriors seem like contenders but I haven't played them). Galaga is just kinda pathetic; no console that wants to compete with the NES and SMS should turn out an arcade port that looks so trashy, especially if arcade ports are its alleged strong suit.

I've never understood the gripes about 7800 Galaga. Sure, there are some tiny graphical details missing, but it plays very smooth, and looks great and doesn't slow down or flicker when there's a ton of things going on. IT also sounds fantastic for being Only TIA. The Echo effect on the bonus round music is spot on.

[78001987]

This. Also, what is it with the SMS and a lack of status boxes/HUD in games? They always just had the info pasted over the background at the top of the screen. It always looked a bit unfinished to me, even if it did offer more screen real estate for the game itself.

That's actually much harder to do, graphically. The NES cheaps out in this area often by cutting the visible playfield by 1/3 or more with big, blocky looking HUDs and scoreboxes. The SMS scores/huds are much more like their advanced Arcade counterparts - specifially Out Run, Choplifter!, After Burner, Space Harrier, etc. I always thought they looked so much better. But the 7800 and the NES do this poorly. always reminded me of trying to play Doom on a lower res computer, where you could limit the gameplay field with the border box to make it run faster.

[Tempest]

That's actually much harder to do, graphically. The NES cheaps out in this area often by cutting the visible playfield by 1/3 or more with big, blocky looking HUDs and scoreboxes. The SMS scores/huds are much more like their advanced Arcade counterparts - specifially Out Run, Choplifter!, After Burner, Space Harrier, etc. I always thought they looked so much better. But the 7800 and the NES do this poorly. always reminded me of trying to play Doom on a lower res computer, where you could limit the gameplay field with the border box to make it run faster.

I'm sure it is, but to me it always looked worse. It's a bit more distracting as well since info can get lost in the background.

[78001987]

I'm sure it is, but to me it always looked worse. It's a bit more distracting as well since info can get lost in the background.

Ah. See - I was already old enough by the time the NES and SMS came out (14/15) that I already knew the difference having used computers a bit by then too, and I knew that the NES was kind of "cheating" by making the playfield graphics smaller. It always bugged me that lots of NES games cheaped out like that and used scams/tricks to try and compete, when they really were very limited. This is another example of my lack of respect for the NES, that is rooted in it's actual game and graphic performance, rather than any subjective personal opinion. It's not a matter really of whether I like it better, as much as another example of how it was inferior and a bit dated from a technical standpoint.

[+darryl1970]

Taht screenshot you posted is at the wrong Aspect ratio. That's not how it looks on a proper NTSC 4x3 TV. This is the problem with using Emulator screenshots for comparisons, sometimes they are just wrong.

 

I often play my 2600, 5200, ColecoVision, 7800 and NES on my Sony Vega 4:3 TV.

The pixels are smaller on the ColecoVision and NES.

 

The pixel resolution of the standard 7800 and 5200 game is 160 horizontal pixels. (320 mode is mostly useless on both systems)

The standard sprites on the ColecoVision and NES are 256 horizontal pixels.

 

That means 1.6 pixels could be fit inside one Atari pixel.

 

I've drawn graphics for all of the systems, and the pixel resolution is frustrating.

I can correct the image using my TV, but the outcome will be very similar.

 

There is nowhere left to put a proper bow on Ms Pac 7800. Likewise, adding the lipstick makes her look weird.

 

I've never understood the gripes about 7800 Galaga. Sure, there are some tiny graphical details missing, but it plays very smooth, and looks great and doesn't slow down or flicker when there's a ton of things going on. IT also sounds fantastic for being Only TIA. The Echo effect on the bonus round music is spot on.

The echo was good, but it was missing the bass line. It is far from accurate, and the graphics are way off. Compare to the arcade and NES if you get a chance. It

's night and day!

[Tempest]

The 7800 version of Galaga looks ok until you hit level 10 and the game speeds up. After that it starts getting really choppy.

[+darryl1970]

I didn't like what I wrote about Galaga 7800. I got called aside and rushed to submit. This is more how I feel.

 

I've never understood the gripes about 7800 Galaga. Sure, there are some tiny graphical details missing, but it plays very smooth, and looks great and doesn't slow down or flicker when there's a ton of things going on. IT also sounds fantastic for being Only TIA. The Echo effect on the bonus round music is spot on.

The echo was good, but it was missing the bass line. It feels a little hallow, but they did do an excellent job for just using the TIA. It is still off, but I am impressed with that. "Far from accurate" was unfair for me to say, because it's VERY impressive for the TIA! I am totally not into the graphics. It doesn't FEEL arcade to me. it feels 7800.

 

The NES has smoother alien movement in flight formations, better sound, arcade-perfect graphics, and a better than arcade starfield (different colors move at different speeds, giving it a depth).

 

The 7800 aliens are less choppy in their positions at the top of the screen, because they are all sprites instead of tiles; but that doesn't affect gameplay. The NES blue aliens swoop under and around the players ship, just like the arcade. Everything just feels more arcade-like on the NES.

 

However, the 7800 has a great title screen, and it is impressive for a first try at Galaga in the US. No other system had conquered it, and it was one of the first developed games. Other versions overseas didn't include the bonus rounds in that day!

 

Again, it's more about looking at things objectively than picking. I am big on arcade accuracy for gameplay and graphics.

 

I wonder if the 7800 Galaga could have had a multi-color starfield. Even the A8/5200 did that in Galaxian. I would think the 7800 should be able to also. I wish they would have done that. I think sprites are more cosmetic than ability of the system.. The 7800 won't be able to match the detail of the NES, but the aliens could be drawn smaller. The ship SHOULD be bigger and more detailed.

 

Maybe a hack could help alleviate some of the lacking visual detail! The alien space patterns might be tougher.

Edited January 13, 2016 by darryl1970

[Papa]

She isn't! She's an octagon with uneven sides.

 

It might be hard to tell from a screenshot, so I zoomed in on the pixels. The 7800 pixels are about 1.6x wider than the NES or even ColecoVision pixels.

 

Even thought the 7800 had more simultaneous and independent colors, the pixels were no smaller than the 2600, 5200, and Atari Computers. (There was a 320 mode, but it was crippled and not used. And example is shown at the bottom of the image.)

 

Here is a blown up image, showing each system's sprites for Ms Pac-Man. The 7800 is using the same level of detail as the 2600 and 7800. It only offers more colors, as far as details. Even the ColecoVision allowed more detail at a small size.

 

Now the huge strength was that the 7800 could display LARGE numbers of these sprites without flicker. That made it stronger for SOME things. I would still take the 7800 limitations over the ColecoVision detail, as the Coleco struggled with more than 4 sprites on one level. It also needed multiple sprites to make multi-colored characters. Thus, Mario was 3 sprites in DK. ColecoVision topped out at a decent Pac and DK. Ms Pac-Man is two in the image, as are the monsters. However, EVERY other system, except the VCS, had an advantage over sound, unless a chip was added on cartridge.

 

My big disappointment in the 7800 was that it was not the leap forward it should have been. Nintendo set out to release a system that could reproduce Donkey Kong. They succeeded, even though they didn't program a perfect version. Heck Super Mario was perfect! GCC's effort fell short in two important areas -- a usable, higher resolution, and better sound out of the box!

 

Sorry, I get wounded and emotional when I think back to how excited I was to see the 7800 I read about in 1984.

My main "point" was that I don't understand how anybody could think the 7800 and SMS looked bad in comparison to the shameful ProSystem.

7800VsARCADEvsNES.png

 

 

I like the Ms. Pacman for the 7800 best because the idea with makeup is that you apply it so you can't tell that you're wearing it.