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What's the Worst Console You Ever Played?

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On 9/2/2020 at 7:04 PM, BassGuitari said:

Can't argue with that! 👍

 

Have you played Black Mesa, though?

Is it available on the Dreamcast? :P

 

Seriously, though, the only PC that I have is a Acer Chromebook 11. I doubt it has the specs to play it, or else I'd be all over it. :(

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3 hours ago, davidcalgary29 said:

Is it available on the Dreamcast? :P

 

Seriously, though, the only PC that I have is a Acer Chromebook 11. I doubt it has the specs to play it, or else I'd be all over it. :(

No it's a modern remake.

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Over the years on here i have mentioned developers not being impressed by the 2D capabilities of the 3DO,with Rebecca Heineman of Interplay And Mark Johnson of Argonaut being quoted. 

 

Well it seems Argonaut project leader, Ian Crowther, wasn't impressed by the hardware full stop. 

 

He said it was a pity about the 3DO hardware, it was little more than a wonderful looking polygon engine, that had been attached to a processor so crippled, it couldn't keep up. 

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On 12/16/2015 at 8:58 AM, high voltage said:

NES.

Awful controls, clunky way of inserting cartridges, which then don't work, square ugly looking grey box.

Forgot to say...wrong-way-around joystick, terrible.

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19 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

Over the years on here i have mentioned developers not being impressed by the 2D capabilities of the 3DO,with Rebecca Heineman of Interplay And Mark Johnson of Argonaut being quoted. 

 

Well it seems Argonaut project leader, Ian Crowther, wasn't impressed by the hardware full stop. 

 

He said it was a pity about the 3DO hardware, it was little more than a wonderful looking polygon engine, that had been attached to a processor so crippled, it couldn't keep up. 

 

Meh, Need for Speed and later games showed it could do well in 3D was even compared to the later 32-bit consoles for a couple years until late 96 when Crash and others came out which by then the game was over. The processor was definitely a problem though, especially for more taxing titles and if you wanted to push textures.

 

But to give credit for a console designed with 91-92 era specs there wasn't many options for 3DO to consider that would allow the system to be easy to program for and to keep the """""costs""""" low. 

 

2D is mixed. There are some good 2D titles on 3DO including Japanese only titles, which can move sprites fast and have parallax in the background, so I'm wondering if the reason why SFII didn't have parallax was because of the programmers themselves, or why SS did have it but at 30fps.

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On 9/13/2020 at 6:34 AM, Leeroy ST said:

 

Meh, Need for Speed and later games showed it could do well in 3D was even compared to the later 32-bit consoles for a couple years until late 96 when Crash and others came out which by then the game was over. The processor was definitely a problem though, especially for more taxing titles and if you wanted to push textures.

 

But to give credit for a console designed with 91-92 era specs there wasn't many options for 3DO to consider that would allow the system to be easy to program for and to keep the """""costs""""" low. 

 

2D is mixed. There are some good 2D titles on 3DO including Japanese only titles, which can move sprites fast and have parallax in the background, so I'm wondering if the reason why SFII didn't have parallax was because of the programmers themselves, or why SS did have it but at 30fps.

If by 32-bit you mean the PS or the Saturn, then please pass that crack pipe haha. The 3DO was interesting, but 12-15fps NFS compared to a much more fluid, more detailed, more objects, etc PS version.. not quite. It was just enough power to entice us for what was right around the corner, but unfortunately just not enough to fulfill that expectation. Still better than the 32x though.

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Regarding cartridge loading on the NES, I can understand what @high voltage means. The mechanism to insert the cartridge and then push it down into position seems to cause more grief than joy. From what I can tell, no other video game console nor home computer that takes cartridges requires replacing or restoring the cartridge connector as often as the NES. I don't know what prevented Nintendo from simply letting the user slot the cartridge straight into it without the push down mechanism, if the goal is to hide the currently played game to make it look more like a VCR. I understand that the design itself was an attempt to get away from the playful appearance of some of the earlier video games, in particular the red and white Famicom that was thought not being a desired look outside of Japan.

 

While I generally prefer other types of controls to the gamepads, I must say that the NES one appears to work fairly well, at least for games with four distinct directions.

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Though, it's noticeable that the original Nintendo connector lasted for about 15/20 years (and I have and know a few ones with their original connector). It acquired a dreadful reputation or breaking so often due do the shoddy cheap 10$ replacement connectors made available in the 2000's that are of terrible quality. That and the dubious recipes to "clean" the connectors, such as boiling them, which only make things worse since you're just soaking the connector in water, which just accelerate oxidation and make the "fix" last a few years at best, or washing them in a mixture of water+cleaning agent, which still cause the oxydation issue (don't use water).

Though, it's still a very poor design since we have older systems that last longer. The Fairchild Channel F have a similar system, where you insert the cartridge until it "click" down in place, and you "eject" it, pretty much like a tape from an autoradio. Yet it seems those wear down less... Though it may simply be that those console saw less usage and are less worn down overall.

 

There's a second reason, thinking about it, and it's more on the cartridge side. On a standard connector, there is quite a good strenght applied on the cart pins, meaning that insertign the cartridge scrape oxydation on the PCB. We've all done this : pulling and putting back a cart a few time to see a glitchy game becoming playable.

The NES connecto name say it all : ZIF : Zero Insertion Force. Thus, the NES connector doesn't "auto-clean" the carts. And a perfectly fne connector may be accused to be causing troubles when in fact, it's the cartridge fault.

Edited by CatPix
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It reminds me about the other year when we tested through every computer and console in our collection at Retrogathering before the next event, to determine which of the systems that worked without issues last year still was operable. Except for those systems we already knew were faulty or had minor defects, about 24 of them booted with a game on the first attempt. Only one was troublesome and you guessed it, that was the NES which we have three units of and a bunch of cartridges which we had to fiddle with for a while to find one that would play. Scribble it off as an anecdote if you wish, but at the point the NES represented the 4% most problematic.

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On 9/15/2020 at 12:36 AM, Tanooki said:

NES has awful controls?  Clunky, doesn't work?  I take it mushrooms must be legal in your country.

If you're only exposure to a "non joystick joystick" before that was the Intellivision, you'd be kind of skeptical.

 

I held the INTV controller in my left hand and use an index finger to "dial" my direction.  The NES baffled me so much, I had to put the pad on the floor to use both of my index and middle fingers.

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1 minute ago, tripletopper said:

If you're only exposure to a "non joystick joystick" before that was the Intellivision, you'd be kind of skeptical.

 

I held the INTV controller in my left hand and use an index finger to "dial" my direction.  The NES baffled me so much, I had to put the pad on the floor to use both of my index and middle fingers.

 

I had only played Atari and Intellivision before NES and I don't remember having any issues with the controller.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also played games on PC using the keyboard so maybe that also prepared me for it.

 

Edited by mbd30
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I was one of the kids who struggled with both using joysticks with my left hand and using d-pads when they first came out. I was used to Atari-style right-handed joysticks and arcade machines that let you use your right hand for the joystick. Of course, I eventually adapted and can use anything any way now, but the struggle BITD for me was real. ;-)

What's "interesting" (Disclaimer: Interest levels may vary) is that it was only relatively recently with Fortnite, that I got into using mouse/keyboard controls instead of gamepad. Even back in the Wolfenstein 3D/Doom days I always used a Logitech gamepad to play. Of course, I still have a quirk. Since I never use a mouse anymore (I had to switch to trackballs a few decades back for comfort), my dexterity with a mouse is poor, so I use a Logitech MX Ergo for both productivity AND gaming purposes.

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16 minutes ago, tripletopper said:

The NES baffled me so much, I had to put the pad on the floor to use both of my index and middle fingers.

A friend of mine did the same thing.

Placed the controller on the floor and just played with fingertips.

 

You obviously weren't alone. The Acclaim Speedboard was made for just such use.

 

EDIT: Apparently it wasn't made by Acclaim...

Edited by Torr

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9 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I was one of the kids who struggled with both using joysticks with my left hand and using d-pads when they first came out. I was used to Atari-style right-handed joysticks and arcade machines that let you use your right hand for the joystick. Of course, I eventually adapted and can use anything any way now, but the struggle BITD for me was real. ;-)

Me too! When I got my SMS thank some God I got a joystick with it. The SMS had a RIGHT handed joystick.

If not I probably would NEVER have enjoyed my SMS (to this day I have trouble with a stock SMS controller!!!)

It wasn't until the Sega Genesis that I finally learned to use a D-Pad.

But I only did when it became necessary when I got my second game (which was Decapattack).

My pack in game was Sonic. So I could continue to use my SMS Joystick, since button 2 acted as 'Start', and I only needed one button to jump (Button 1)

Edited by Torr

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11 hours ago, turboxray said:

The 3DO was interesting, but 12-15fps NFS compared to a much more fluid, more detailed, more objects, etc PS version.. not quite.

The first problem is you're grasping for straws as it's well known that 3DO games were evenly compared to the PSX/SAT versions of the same games sometimes even in 3DO's favor. Not to mention the 3D regardless of less polygons is "cleaner" than both the PSX/SAT due to lacking the issues commonly associated witht he 3D of both those consoles.

 

However, this quote is nothing but a flat out lie. Outside of the frame rate which is the only truth told, the PSX/SAT ports usually have worse image quality, washed or or lack of detail and less objects in several cases and NFS is a perfect example of that. The PSX version for example runs fast yet had less environment in view, grainy graphics, warping,  has less objects and details throughout. 

 

Then there's the "speed" version of the game which can also run on the 3DO console through burned disc which makes the difference even more against the PSX's favor since it removes the only real advantage. There's even less cars on the road and the 3DO version was going for an exotic simulation racer showing off the cars which explains the FMV's, while the PSX seems to e trying hard to be a budget Ridge Racer to appeal to the Ridge Racer crowd on the PSX.

 

Even then no one is saying the 3DO was the better overall console than the other two but it wasn't a slouch either.

 

 

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3 hours ago, carlsson said:

It reminds me about the other year when we tested through every computer and console in our collection at Retrogathering before the next event, to determine which of the systems that worked without issues last year still was operable. Except for those systems we already knew were faulty or had minor defects, about 24 of them booted with a game on the first attempt. Only one was troublesome and you guessed it, that was the NES which we have three units of and a bunch of cartridges which we had to fiddle with for a while to find one that would play. Scribble it off as an anecdote if you wish, but at the point the NES represented the 4% most problematic.

I'm certainly not downplaying the fact that it's quite unreliable ;) I'm just pointing out that at this point in 2020, the already faulty designed connectors have, for the most part, either having been "cleaned" with solutions that only made the problem worse on the long run, or original connectors been replaced with crappy ones that don't even last 5 years, which make the issue looking worse than it really is. It would be like replacing the worn-out belt of a disquette drive with a desk rubber band. Maybe it will work for a few times, but it will fail faster than a proper replacement, and you could blame the design that make use of rubber belts all you want, the issue is still that on top of a poor design, a poor solution was used to solve the problem.

Also, being member of a retrogaming club, we have the same issue with NESes ;) Especially since they are hardly used and I know that at least one received Shitnese replacement connectors. It was replaced 2 years ago and it's already failing. I have demanded to replace at least the "expo" NES connector with a Blinking Light Win one but 2020 came and all manifestations have been cancelled, so no money for this year.

 

For personnal anecdotes, on my side, I cleaned my original NES connector with vinegar and bent the pins back with a ruler (a crucial but almost always neglected step) back in 2008 or 2009 and my NES accept my games 7 times out of 10, and usually, cleaning the cart solve the issue.

Edited by CatPix

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19 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

that I got into using mouse/keyboard controls instead of gamepad. Even back in the Wolfenstein 3D/Doom days I always used a Logitech gamepad to play.

I was never able to use a mouse for that kind of gaming,  but for those games I was playing with a keyboard because the PC analog joysticks that were common back then sucked, and broke easily.   Eventually I solved that problem by buying a gamepad, but even to this day those games feel more natural to me with keyboard.

 

Even today I can't use a mouse for aiming-- feels unnatural, even though everyone tells me it's so much better.

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38 minutes ago, Torr said:

A friend of mine did the same thing.

Placed the controller on the floor and just played with fingertips.

 

You obviously weren't alone. The Acclaim Speedboard was made for just such use.

 

EDIT: Apparently it wasn't made by Acclaim...

It's ridiculous that Acclaim was trying to convince people like me that you actually need to buy something to put your controller on the floor with.

 

Why pay money when the carpet does that for free?

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41 minutes ago, Torr said:

Me too! When I got my SMS thank some God I got a joystick with it. The SMS had a RIGHT handed joystick.

If not I probably would NEVER have enjoyed my SMS (to this day I have trouble with a stock SMS controller!!!)

It wasn't until the Sega Genesis that I finally learned to use a D-Pad.

But I only did when it became necessary when I got my second game (which was Decapattack).

My pack in game was Sonic. So I could continue to use my SMS Joystick, since button 2 acted as 'Start', and I only needed one button to jump (Button 1)

If you're exactly that type of person, like I was, who always put the joystick in the right hand unless otherwise forced to, by Nintendo mainly.  (Most arcades in the United States had either right-handed joysticks or ambidextrous with mirrored buttons.)

 

But I actually took some action, I was one of those rare few who we're going to get a right-handed joystick no matter what.

 

What people did in the zeros and teens for vanity I did out of necessity in the 90s, got a custom fightstick.

 

read my story about it and a new design that I'm trying to sell to some joystick maker for a truly ambidextrous 8 button fightstick design, visit sinistersticks.com .  (full disclosure I own this website)

Edited by tripletopper
Making URL clickable

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45 minutes ago, Torr said:

Me too! When I got my SMS thank some God I got a joystick with it. The SMS had a RIGHT handed joystick.

If not I probably would NEVER have enjoyed my SMS (to this day I have trouble with a stock SMS controller!!!)

It wasn't until the Sega Genesis that I finally learned to use a D-Pad.

But I only did when it became necessary when I got my second game (which was Decapattack).

My pack in game was Sonic. So I could continue to use my SMS Joystick, since button 2 acted as 'Start', and I only needed one button to jump (Button 1)

I noticed the big problem with the Sega Master System joystick is that you're doing a lot of middle finger pumping.  If you're mean fire button is supposed to be on your index finger then it should be mere mapped so that your index finger on the left hand also.  This mapping would be more akin to a game like Tutankham or Side Arms where there is a definite left and right fire and not a main and auxiliary fire. 

 

to cover all your bases you need both a Sega Master System joystick and Beeshu Master System joystick, which has an index to index mapping.

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Ehh... my first console was the NES but played arcade for years earlier here and there being a kid and all.  I never had an issue with the Nintendo d-pad, it's comfy and easy to use, to glide over to get tight response.  That's why I made the comment as it just seemed irrational and wrong.  Maybe if you're talking about the non-analog NES Advantage stick which really is just the d-pad design with a big spring loaded 4 way stick over it then maybe as it does blow with certain titles.

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1.  Was there an analog version of the Advantage?

 

2.  Most people say I prefer the Beeshu Superstick over the NES Advantage simply because of ambidexterity, and everyone on SRK say the NES Advantage is better constructed stick than the Beeshu Superstick.  I'm going to make a poll about this topic on a separate forum topic.

 

3.  I was talking about the fact Nintendo didn't describe any proper way to hold it. 

 

4. Also, would it be so hard to 180 a NES pad and make it selectable as right handed as a stock feature, or Sega Master System pad or 7800 pad?  There was no ergonomic reason why that couldn't have been done.  Was it electronic?

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